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The word underrated means:under valued and that it gets less praise than it deserves.

I find that FF8 gets far more hate than praise and same goes for FFX.

FFX does get more praise than ff8 as i've seen and that only makes it slightly less underrated.


I think FFX is not a bad game,sure people can be annoyed by tidus extremely happy attitude,but there are far worse characters that are far more annoying,like:hope and and snow from FFXIII.

The gameplay also does have some memorable parts that are its saving grace adn i found more enjoyable than FF8.

FF8:
1:While i don't like its gameplay at all because you get no clues where to get ingredients for your special weapons.

2:I don't like the timing parts for the special skills,i'm terrible at timing the skills for getting extra blows.

3:the card game players early on can be pretty rutheless and too time consuming.I can't tell you how many times i had to reset in order to get all the cards as i am a bit obsessive compulsive about getting everything.

4:the junction system:I seriously don't like junction system and having to add spells to my stats to attack.I also seriously don't like how useless most of the spells are in battle.

5:Cutscenes:I think the cutscenes make the game longer and more drawn out and more boring.I was never a fan of interactive movies and this game feels more like a interactive movie,in fact:i think this is one of the things that seriously turned me off to final fantasy as it hurt the game.

On the other hand,i think sometimes that squall can be underrated as a character a little as he is better than the other characters.

I feel few people comprehend him and just call him emo because he is not good at dealing with people and that is why he is a loner.

He seems to have been hurt as you can see in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruvwcAN45vg

And ever since it seems he never trusted anyone ever again.

It seems like he was seriously hurt and can't trust anyone anymore.
Squall keeps his thoughts to himself and doesn't talk to anyone,he's very untrusting of others because he was hurt and found that he couldn't depend on others.



This post has been edited by Magitek_slayer on 7th February 2011 14:21

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Seriously, WHY are FFVIII and FFX underrated? In the press they both got glowing reviews and sold in ridiculous numbers. A lot of fans like both of them and some think of them as the best. Do you want everyone to say they're the best FF games? Do you want 50% of fans to say they're the best games? It's not going to happen. I don't really like either of the games and I don't think either are underrated. You yourself wrote out a number of reasons why FFVIII is not a great FF game. If you're arguing that Tidus isn't that bad in comparison to Hope and Snow then that's really scraping the barrel, plus he's the narrator and the game's main character. They're fine games overall considering a lot of the rubbish that's been made over the years, but the quality of the FF series up until VIII and X and afterwards (IX and XII) makes them weak in comparison.

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Scepticism, that dry rot of the intellect, had not left one entire idea in his mind.

Me on the Starcraft.

Quote (sweetdude @ 7th February 2011 16:47)

Seriously, WHY are FFVIII and FFX underrated? In the press they both got glowing reviews and sold in ridiculous numbers. A lot of fans like both of them and some think of them as the best. Do you want everyone to say they're the best FF games?

No but they certainly get bashed more than praised and they certainly have bad stuff about them,but there are some redeemable points to them that often get overlooked.

Gameplay:In FFX,the gameplay is much more forgiving than in ff8.
Sure not everybody likes the sphere system,but i'm sure some people like it,and there is also plenty to do like the dark aeons and getting all the ultimate weapons.

FF8:squall maybe not the most likeable character as he pushes people away,but he does this for a reason:trust.

He was hurt in the past and has a hard time trusting anyone and keeps his thoughts to himself and doesn't depend on anyone because he doesn't trust them,he also thinks about it and admits to himself that it can be his downfall as sooner or later he will have to trust someone.Isn't that proof that there is something there? Also:ff8 has some fairly nice pieces of music:man with a machinegun and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCQn7PGVopI.

These 2 are some of the most hated games in the series,even ff9 doesn't get as much hate as FFX does.

Not saying they are great games,but they surely aren't the worse things in the world.

Also:what about calm before the storm in FFX? its very relaxing and nice in music too.

I didn't like ff8 that much.
I admit,the game was a turn off to everything i liked in gameplay,but FFX i liked it more than ff7 ff8 and in some instances in gameplay ff9.

I'm saying that all those games are good in their own ways.

FF5:If you don't cheat and actually work for getting all the jobs and mix them up,it can be very rewarding and fun.

I didn't think much of the story,but i had a lot of fun with the gameplay in ff5.
I find that it often gets overlooked because its so old.

What i meant by this:people often will hate on one game because its not like the game they started often(ff7 or ff6).

I'm not saying its a great game by any means,but is it that bad? some people liked ff8 and a lot more people enjoyed FFX than ff8.

Also:i played most of FFXIII i tried to give it a chance.
I absolutely can't stand hope or snow,they annoy me to no end.

1:Snow being so stubborn and acting stupid during the game annoys me.
2:Hope:He keeps whining that he is weak and can't do anything and wimpers in fear and hides behind lightning and when he does get power,he fails because he didn't try hard enough.

Hope is probably the most annoying character for me in FFXIII

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

While I personally believe that FFX is the best videogame ever made (and I liked FFVIII quite a bit too), I disagree that they are underrated- I think they are well regarded. FFX sold a ton of copies, did very well and was probably one of the more visible games in the series, helping to attract more new gamers to FF than most other titles. They both recieved great reviews. I think calling them underrated is just silly. A lot of the members of this site greatly appreciate FFX and have said so on several occassions. Even FFVIII, while disliked by many, got good reviews and sold well. These things said, you have to also remember that this is a website based around the older FF games, and thus there will inherently be a degree of perference towards those titles.

Edit

It was realized only late in development of FFV that the company had entirely forgotten to add a plot to the battle system they'd just created. This seems in retrospect to be a relatively important part of a videogame.

This post has been edited by Death Penalty on 8th February 2011 23:50

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Currently Playing : Final Fantasy V
Most Recently Beat : Elder Scrolls: Skyrim
Favorite Game : Final Fantasy X

The newest CoNcast is up! Have a listen!

Quote (Death Penalty @ 8th February 2011 23:45)

While I personally believe that FFX is the best videogame ever made (and I liked FFVIII quite a bit too), I disagree that they are underrated- I think they are well regarded. FFX sold a ton of copies.

Ok my mistake in way of putting it:

FFX gets high rating by reviewers,but FFX gets a ton more hate than ff6.

FF6 and ff4 seem to get far more love than ff8 and FFX and are often seen as the black sheep in the series.

One of the biggest things for hating FFX is tidus and In ff8:Zell squall seifer and selphie and actually the gameplay.Right now,i'm playing FF8 and got up to the plot to assasinate edea.I defeated the 2 minotaur brothers and i was actually under leveled.I junctioned 100 curagas to quistis and had over 2500 hp and nearly 1k hp and had 100 death junctioned to str to squall and lighting junction to elemental.

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

You seem to be confusing some people hating the games with everyone hating the games.

FFX is one of the most popular games in the series, it's one of the highest selling games released on the PS2, one of the highest rated and it seems to be the most likely (after FFVII) to have introduced people to the series. So to say it's underrated or even a black sheep is ridiculous.

If any game fits that description (and I know I'll probably get stick for this), it's FFX-2.

Quote (Death Penalty @ 8th February 2011 23:45)

Edit

It was realized only late in development of FFV that the company had entirely forgotten to add a plot to the battle system they'd just created. This seems in retrospect to be a relatively important part of a videogame.

I can't tell whether you're being sarcastic or not, but I'm writing this post with the assumption that you are.
In my opinion, when it comes to gameplay v. story, gameplay wins; that's why they call it "playing a video game". While I certainly enjoy good stories in games, I feel that good stories are what pretty much every other form of entertainment (books, movies, TV shows, plays, and so on) are for. Naturally, this is accomplished to extremely varying degrees of success, but the point stands.
This is a big reason why I think Final Fantasy IV is overrated - with the exception of the DS version and its Augment system (or so I've heard), it stands out to me as the only Final Fantasy game I've ever played (I-VIII, minus VII, plus Tactics Advance) hell, one of the only JRPG's I've ever played with absolutely no replay value.
While I don't agree with Yahtzee's overall opinion of JRPGs, I can certainly understand where he's coming from when he said (in his review of TWEWY, if I'm not mistaken) that he dislikes it when he feels like the player isn't contributing to the story in any way, simply carting the characters around to one cutscene after another.

...I smell a poll in the near future.

Edit

Which I shall create...later. 8 AM class tomorrow morning, bed time. Night night.
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

...
...Man, what is it with me and getting off topic? My apologies, everyone.

This post has been edited by Insegredious on 9th February 2011 04:09

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EGG TOSS
YOU CARRY
EAT A BAG
LEMON-DY
HEAD SAUCE
JIM CARREY
IN A BEAR
HEAVEN PEE
DAFFY-ROTH
- brentalfloss

Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 8th February 2011 19:03)

Ok my mistake in way of putting it:

FFX gets high rating by reviewers,but FFX gets a ton more hate than ff6.

FF6 and ff4 seem to get far more love than ff8 and FFX and are often seen as the black sheep in the series.

One of the biggest things for hating FFX is tidus and In ff8:Zell squall seifer and selphie and actually the gameplay.Right now,i'm playing FF8 and got up to the plot to assasinate edea.I defeated the 2 minotaur brothers and i was actually under leveled.I junctioned 100 curagas to quistis and had over 2500 hp and nearly 1k hp and had 100 death junctioned to str to squall and lighting junction to elemental.

You've been mentioning black sheep a lot recently. Maybe you should pick up a copy of Harvest Moon?

All the Final Fantasies after VII are polarizing. VII was a massively influential game, which is one of the reasons I could never call it 'overrated' despite it being somewhat middling in my opinion; it's unfathomable how much influence it had on video games. At the same time as setting the bar for what constitutes a good RPG, however, VII had the unfortunate double effect of both alienating old-school Final Fantasy fans, and setting expectations so high for the next games that they couldn't possibly be met. You say that VIII and X are the black sheeps, but really I would say XII and XIII are much more maligned, and XI and XIV even more so. And despite IX receiving a somewhat revised opinion these days, for years after it came out nobody at all cared about it. The sad fact of the matter is that, with the preconceived notions that we all have (regardless of whether they are for or against the recent games), I predict that every Final Fantasy game from now on will be looked at identically, in terms of player base and critical opinions: critics will eat it up and fanbase will be sharply divided. Fans will never be happy with anything less than Squeenix simply remaking VII, and as XIII proved, even if they do essentially remake VII people will get upset about the game being an imitation. The sad fact is that gamers are among the most fickle, difficult to please fans on the planet. As your buddy and mine, Pat R. stated (in reference to Final Fantasy VIII, even!):

"Let's face it: gamers are a tough audience to please, especially when it comes to sequels. Case in point: Street Fighter...Street Fighter II was a megahit. It changed video games, revitalized the arcade scene, and pleased just about everybody - excluding, I suppose, fanatical Karate Champ loyalists. Naturally, fans craved more. Capcom took an "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" approach to following it up, releasing Street Fighter II: Champion Edition and then Street Fighter II: Hyper Fighting. Each new version included additional moves, playable boss characters,and minor game-balancing changes, but they weren't really new games. They were tweaks meant to make a good game even better. And for a while, fans bought it. Champion Edition and Hyper Fighting were well-received in the arcades, and SNES owners who'd already bought Street Fighter II's 16-bit port happily shelled out another fifty bucks for Street Fighter II Turbo. But by the time Capcom unveiled Super Street Fighter II Turbo, many fans were turned off. "Just more of the same," they grumbled, and went to place their quarters on the Mortal Kombat and Samurai Shodown cabinets. Capcom took heed and released Street Fighter Alpha. It was a fine game, and a good starting point for a new 2D fighting series, but I don't recall it turning many heads. "Sure, the new graphic style is nice," we said. "But there aren't enough characters, and most of them are just the same people, anyway. It's still too much of the same old, same old. When is Street Fighter III coming out already?" A couple years later, Capcom released III, and nobody even cared. "It's too different," we whined this time. "Who are all these new people? What happened to the old ones? What's with only being able to pick one Super Art? And besides, 2D games are practically antiques at this point. 3D games - now those are the wave of the future!" Recently, when Capcom announced Street Fighter IV would contain most or all of the old cast from Street Fighter II and would be 3D, gamers were already tearing their hair out and wailing that it was definitely going to suck. I would hate to have an audience like us."

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"If art doesn't risk upsetting expectations and challenging its audience, it can only stagnate."

Quote (trismegistus @ 9th February 2011 07:49)

You've been mentioning black sheep a lot recently. Maybe you should pick up a copy of Harvest Moon?

All the Final Fantasies after VII are polarizing. VII was a massively influential game, which is one of the reasons I could never call it 'overrated' despite it being somewhat middling in my opinion; it's unfathomable how much influence it had on video games.

I never played harvest moon.

There is also such a thing as bad influence as i believe ff7 brought.Its quite dangerous and what is said on this thread is correct,FFXII is also quite infamous and hated.Generally speaking,i find FF8 to have a lot of problems that damage its replayeability,but you got to admit,the whole gf thing of learning abilities from them was pretty ingenious.

As for the post from insegredius:Yes,a game isn't a game without gameplay.
A game that is all watching is more like a movie than a game and it really isn't like playing a game at all and goes against what an rpg is.

Another thing i believe that constitutes rpg is for the character to roleplay a character and select his path in life wether he be evil and go murder someone and steal the goods,or be a goody two shoes who lives his life by the bible and prays and does only good deeds.These are not perfect examples either because there is a in between line too.

Back to FF8:

The gameplay suffers from being terminally too time consuming and it hurts the game really bad because it makes it quite less enjoyable.

Games like ff6 ff9 and ff7 have a certain pattern that allows you lvl up and not be underpowered or overpowered during the games progress,but in ff8,unless you seriously grind those cards or spells and junction them and get ap for the gfs for the abilities,sooner or later you are going to hurt bad in hard fights when the lack of stats and hp is noticeable.
Oh yeah!! i don't think ff4 is overrated at all,maybe slightly over hyped a little since its getting a lot of publicity,but its a very good game.


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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 9th February 2011 13:29)

There is also such a thing as bad influence as i believe ff7 brought.Its quite dangerous and what is said on this thread is correct,FFXII is also quite infamous and hated.

Magitek I think you'd have a much better time if you took a second, or even a minute, to think your opinions through before posting. Look at this thread. It seems that about 80% of people enjoyed FFXII. It's not generally hated. Apply that to everything you've said about FFV, VIII and X and you might understand why literally nobody agrees with what you say.

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Scepticism, that dry rot of the intellect, had not left one entire idea in his mind.

Me on the Starcraft.

Quote (sweetdude @ 9th February 2011 08:58)

Magitek I think you'd have a much better time if you took a second, or even a minute, to think your opinions through before posting. Look at this thread. It seems that about 80% of people enjoyed FFXII. It's not generally hated. Apply that to everything you've said about FFV, VIII and X and you might understand why literally nobody agrees with what you say.

It's also the only Final Fantasy game to date to get a perfect score from Famitsu, one of only fifteen games ever to do so.

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Hey, put the cellphone down for a while
In the night there is something wild
Can you hear it breathing?
And hey, put the laptop down for a while
In the night there is something wild
I feel it, it's leaving me

Quote (sweetdude @ 9th February 2011 16:58)

Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 9th February 2011 13:29)

There is also such a thing as bad influence as i believe ff7 brought.Its quite dangerous and what is said on this thread is correct,FFXII is also quite infamous and hated.

Magitek I think you'd have a much better time if you took a second, or even a minute, to think your opinions through before posting. Look at this thread. It seems that about 80% of people enjoyed FFXII. It's not generally hated. Apply that to everything you've said about FFV, VIII and X and you might understand why literally nobody agrees with what you say.

There may be people who love ff8 and FFX,but ff8 and especially FFXII get a lot of hate,it seems that they get more hate.Wether a reviewer gives a good review dis only 1 part of the media,you also can't trust media scores 100% without trying the game yourself.Its been said many times:FF8 and FFXII have a serious love hate relation with the player and it seems either you love it or hate it.

score from Famitsu, one of only fifteen games ever to do so.

I've seen people give ff7 a perfect score before.

http://uk.psx.ign.com/articles/150/150494p1.html ign 9.5

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/adventure/...il5/review.html ign gave re5 8.5 and a lot of people really dislike it.

http://www.1up.com/reviews/final-fantasy-xiii-review a- FFXIII.



This post has been edited by Magitek_slayer on 9th February 2011 19:11

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Quote (trismegistus @ 9th February 2011 07:49)

Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 8th February 2011 19:03)

Ok my mistake in way of putting it:

FFX gets high rating by reviewers,but FFX gets a ton more hate than ff6.

FF6 and ff4 seem to get far more love than ff8 and FFX and are often seen as the black sheep in the series.

One of the biggest things for hating FFX is tidus and In ff8:Zell squall seifer and selphie and actually the gameplay.Right now,i'm playing FF8 and got up to the plot to assasinate edea.I defeated the 2 minotaur brothers and i was actually under leveled.I junctioned 100 curagas to quistis and had over 2500 hp and  nearly 1k hp and had 100 death junctioned to str to squall and lighting junction to elemental.

You've been mentioning black sheep a lot recently. Maybe you should pick up a copy of Harvest Moon?

All the Final Fantasies after VII are polarizing. VII was a massively influential game, which is one of the reasons I could never call it 'overrated' despite it being somewhat middling in my opinion; it's unfathomable how much influence it had on video games. At the same time as setting the bar for what constitutes a good RPG, however, VII had the unfortunate double effect of both alienating old-school Final Fantasy fans, and setting expectations so high for the next games that they couldn't possibly be met. You say that VIII and X are the black sheeps, but really I would say XII and XIII are much more maligned, and XI and XIV even more so. And despite IX receiving a somewhat revised opinion these days, for years after it came out nobody at all cared about it. The sad fact of the matter is that, with the preconceived notions that we all have (regardless of whether they are for or against the recent games), I predict that every Final Fantasy game from now on will be looked at identically, in terms of player base and critical opinions: critics will eat it up and fanbase will be sharply divided. Fans will never be happy with anything less than Squeenix simply remaking VII, and as XIII proved, even if they do essentially remake VII people will get upset about the game being an imitation. The sad fact is that gamers are among the most fickle, difficult to please fans on the planet. As your buddy and mine, Pat R. stated (in reference to Final Fantasy VIII, even!):

"Let's face it: gamers are a tough audience to please, especially when it comes to sequels. Case in point: Street Fighter...Street Fighter II was a megahit. It changed video games, revitalized the arcade scene, and pleased just about everybody - excluding, I suppose, fanatical Karate Champ loyalists. Naturally, fans craved more. Capcom took an "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" approach to following it up, releasing Street Fighter II: Champion Edition and then Street Fighter II: Hyper Fighting. Each new version included additional moves, playable boss characters,and minor game-balancing changes, but they weren't really new games. They were tweaks meant to make a good game even better. And for a while, fans bought it. Champion Edition and Hyper Fighting were well-received in the arcades, and SNES owners who'd already bought Street Fighter II's 16-bit port happily shelled out another fifty bucks for Street Fighter II Turbo. But by the time Capcom unveiled Super Street Fighter II Turbo, many fans were turned off. "Just more of the same," they grumbled, and went to place their quarters on the Mortal Kombat and Samurai Shodown cabinets. Capcom took heed and released Street Fighter Alpha. It was a fine game, and a good starting point for a new 2D fighting series, but I don't recall it turning many heads. "Sure, the new graphic style is nice," we said. "But there aren't enough characters, and most of them are just the same people, anyway. It's still too much of the same old, same old. When is Street Fighter III coming out already?" A couple years later, Capcom released III, and nobody even cared. "It's too different," we whined this time. "Who are all these new people? What happened to the old ones? What's with only being able to pick one Super Art? And besides, 2D games are practically antiques at this point. 3D games - now those are the wave of the future!" Recently, when Capcom announced Street Fighter IV would contain most or all of the old cast from Street Fighter II and would be 3D, gamers were already tearing their hair out and wailing that it was definitely going to suck. I would hate to have an audience like us."

I could not have said it better, even if I were to try and do so. Were we having this discussion in person, I would shake your hand.

--------------------

EGG TOSS
YOU CARRY
EAT A BAG
LEMON-DY
HEAD SAUCE
JIM CARREY
IN A BEAR
HEAVEN PEE
DAFFY-ROTH
- brentalfloss

Quote (Insegredious @ 9th February 2011 16:02)

I could not have said it better, even if I were to try and do so. Were we having this discussion in person, I would shake your hand.

Thanks! My only hope is that my bizarre rambling coalesces enough into coherent thoughs now and then that someone appreciates it.

I really don't think that VIII and X are underrated. V perhaps, if only because of its pioneering the job system, but even then I think that every game in the series is saved from the fate of being underrated simply by virtue of being a Final Fantasy game. X especially I would say is easily the most popular game in the series of the past 12 years, and while VIII perhaps is in the same 'it changed so much about the series that it turned a lot of people off' boat as, say, Zelda 2, I can think of a few friends I have in real life who consider it their favourite in the series. While I'll be the first to admit the post-VI games tend to leave me a little cold, it's all a matter of opinion based on the fact that I started the series in 1989, and there are plenty of fans out there who feel the exact opposite and vastly prefer the newer games. The fallacy in your argument, Magitek, is that you're asking a group who convene on a forum implicitly dedicated to the older games in the series; I suspect if you asked elsewhere you'd get a very different vibe.

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"If art doesn't risk upsetting expectations and challenging its audience, it can only stagnate."

Quote (trismegistus @ 9th February 2011 21:15)

Quote (Insegredious @ 9th February 2011 16:02)

I could not have said it better, even if I were to try and do so. Were we having this discussion in person, I would shake your hand.

the older games in the series; I suspect if you asked elsewhere you'd get a very different vibe.

Now you are being ridiculous,FF7 is 13 years old and ff8 is now 12 years old.
I think that's pretty old already considering that FFX isn't that new.

If we are going in that direction,can we consider star wars which has special effects but started in the late 70's new? sure compared to movies like gone with the wind or seventh samurai which came out a lot earlier or perhaps m which is also pretty old.

Difference is:FF8 had no remakes and no sequels,ff4 ff6 and ff7 have.

FFX i'm inclined to say that its not old,its in the new games area,but ff8? its just as old as legend of legaia with the similar type of outdated polygons.

How old does a game have to be before its considered old even if its psx? and while ff6 and ff4 exist are you going to call ff7 and ff8 recent?

Anyways back to the topic:I don't care much for ff8 but my whole reason is i feel that these games get a whole lot of bashing.My reason for the 2 topics:mgs2 topic and ff5 ff8 and ffx topic is this:The extremes between:extreme bashing to the point that people fail to acknowledge any possible good side to a game and extreme praising where they ignore completely any flaw it may have and attack anyone who points it out.

I don't feel as strongly this way about ff8,but i do feel stronger that FFX isn't a bad game by any means and it gets way too much hate from people often.FF5 just either gets hated or completely ignored because it has different gameplay type.

While there are a few people who love ff8 and hype it a little,the amount of people who flat out hate it and give little to no credit to anything good it may have.Some people go into a little detail.

I don't think squall is that bad of a character really,sure he's cold but i honestly don't think quistis or rinoa are that bad either.




This post has been edited by Magitek_slayer on 9th February 2011 23:11

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Lol, not to be off topic but you're taking that comjpletely out of context. He said:

"A forum dedicated to the older games in the series"

Meaning, it's not dedicated to the newer ones. Doesn't really matter what's new or old in GENERAL. Just that he's talking about what the Caves of Narshe covers. Seriously reread stuff before going on a pointless rant.

Anyway, I disagree. I see why they get the opinions they do, even if yours disagrees M_S. I barely see anyone bashing them anyway, which is the point of this thread. Who bashes them? I need evidence for this.

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You're telling me that there's no hope.

I'm telling you you're wrong.

Hey, uh, I understand being frustrated when people don't like games you love, but hey: it's their loss. Not yours. You can see the beauty in games that everyone else detests, and can laugh down at them for being t0o simple-minded to be able to apprectiate classics like Final Fantasy X. I'm not saying be a jerk, but if people don't like a game, they don't have to, and there's nothing to gain by complaining that others can't see it.. I should know - I tried.


Oh, and you HAVE GOT to try out a Harvest Moon game. They rock.

This post has been edited by Smash Genesis on 10th February 2011 01:00

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"When we think there's no hope left, we keep looking until we find some!" - Claire Farron

Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 9th February 2011 18:10)

Now you are being ridiculous,FF7 is 13 years old and ff8 is now 12 years old.
I think that's pretty old already considering that FFX isn't that new.

Yes, I consider Final Fantasy VII to be the start of the 'newer' games in the series, simply because it revolutionized the genre and every FF game (and every JRPG in general) since has been aping it to some extent. It doesn't really matter how old the game is, and your comparing of Star Wars and Seven Samurai is bizarre and fundamentally flawed. 2001 to Star Wars? Star Wars to Dune? Star Wars to Dark City? Sure, they're all Sci-Fi films, thus fitting in the same genre and maiing apt comparisons. Better to compare Seven Samurai with another samurai flick, or another western. But comparing it to Star Wars is like saying that clearly RPGs have come a long way because FFVII is newer and more flashy than Super Mario 2.

And I didn't mean that the choice of venue the question was posed in was the be-all end-all of the debate. Clearly not everyone who comes here loves the old games and loathes the new ones; Smash Genesis is a very vocal example (and more power to him, says I. We always need people shaking up conventions). However I think there's a definite bias here toward the older games in the series here, so you're going to get more opinions to that side of the argument. Personally I'm not a big fan of VIII or X, but as I said before I think it's crazy to call either, X especially, underrated.

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"If art doesn't risk upsetting expectations and challenging its audience, it can only stagnate."

FFVIII is not underrated. It's not a bad game, per se, but I feel that the greater gaming community would have forgotten about it years ago were it not for the words "Final Fantasy." The gameplay is easy to abuse (Aura. Just...Aura.) and the story has too many plot twists with almost no set up or resolution: the orphanage, GFs = memory loss, NORG, etc.
Whatever. I feel like this thread is spinning its wheels in the mud and not moving an inch.

--------------------

EGG TOSS
YOU CARRY
EAT A BAG
LEMON-DY
HEAD SAUCE
JIM CARREY
IN A BEAR
HEAVEN PEE
DAFFY-ROTH
- brentalfloss

Quote (trismegistus @ 10th February 2011 00:54)

Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 9th February 2011 18:10)

Now you are being ridiculous,FF7 is 13 years old and ff8 is now 12 years old.
I think that's pretty old already considering that FFX isn't that new.

Yes, I consider Final Fantasy VII to be the start of the 'newer' games in the series, simply because it revolutionized the genre and every FF game (and every JRPG in general) since has been aping it to some extent. It doesn't really matter how old the game is, and your comparing of Star Wars and Seven Samurai is bizarre and fundamentally flawed. 2001 to Star Wars? Star Wars to Dune? Star Wars to Dark City? Sure, they're all Sci-Fi films, thus fitting in the same genre and maiing apt comparisons. Better to compare Seven Samurai with another samurai flick, or another western. But comparing it to Star Wars is like saying that clearly RPGs have come a long way because FFVII is newer and more flashy than Super Mario 2.

And I didn't mean that the choice of venue the question was posed in was the be-all end-all of the debate. Clearly not everyone who comes here loves the old games and loathes the new ones; Smash Genesis is a very vocal example (and more power to him, says I. We always need people shaking up conventions). However I think there's a definite bias here toward the older games in the series here, so you're going to get more opinions to that side of the argument. Personally I'm not a big fan of VIII or X, but as I said before I think it's crazy to call either, X especially, underrated.

Not taking in ff7 since this is not about them:A game which plays on early cd roms(early 90's and has bad graphics is still a really old game,even if pacman is older and galaga.

The players who started with ff7 are now all grown up and the game is ancient history now.

Wether you think its new or not to you is irrelevant because if its 15 years old,then technology has advanced quite a bit and people born in 1995 who are now 15 years old will be playing FFX FFXII and FFXIII and will be used to really pretty cutscenes and 3d graphics,not polygon 2d sprites over 3d territories or whatever.

The only difference,you got the prequels and sequels which are very new like:crisis core dirge of cerberus and that other game i forget the name plus a movie that looks to have nice cg special effects.

FF5 has a different problem all together than FF8:its really old and its well hidden.

I played the psx version and didn't notice the problem with loading times,but i haven't played the snes version ever.I did play FF4 on the psx and must say that it seems harder once you get to the moon(which is nice since i beat the original to death and know it really well)

Going back to ff5:The complaints i hear about ff5 characters only seem about the lame script.

I've heard complaints about krile being emotionless which i agree on,she's not as good as her father.

I did like barts butz and faris the most. The simple story i don't mind at all,The gameplay is pretty good and makes up for the lack of complicated story.For me,gameplay is absolutely vital in a game.You can have a game with good gameplay and a bad story and its still enjoyable if the gameplay is fairly good(legend of legaia,kartia word of fate ultima underworld Secret of evermore secret of mana chrono trigger etc etc)

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

The bottom line here, for everyone involved, is that Magitek Slayer isn't going to listen and doesn't really care about anyone's counter-arguments, whether they're "good" arguments or not. If you say anything at all that disagrees with his "theories," he's going to come back and tell you you're wrong, and he's going to do it without any sources beyond his own opinion. I can count, without even really reading - because it hurts to do so - ten instances just in this thread where Magitek Slayer makes a counterpoint that is essentially: "no, you're wrong, people hate on [thing] all the time" despite a total lack of offered evidence.

It's a brick wall, people. Let it go and let him get it out of his system.

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"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN?

Quote (Rangers51 @ 10th February 2011 12:34)

The bottom line here, for everyone involved, is that Magitek Slayer isn't going to listen and doesn't really care about anyone's counter-arguments, whether they're "good"

http://forums.ffshrine.org/f26/why-ff8-bas...uch-2288/2.html

I don't feel like looking for every single thread i ever read to prove it ranger51,and besides,you are probably going to ignore it anyways.

And:some stuff i agree with on the site and other stuff i don't.Its that simple.Someone may find something they dislike like:lamb and say:hey!! with tomato and onions on it take off the edge of the strong taste and the person who learns this tries it and says:yeah it does.

Let me say something to you ranger51:

I'm not saying that ff8 be the end all be all,nor FFX,but i have seen forums where when they talk about FFX and ff8,they would usually talk about how much they hate tidus or go on about how the story is stupid and squall being emo.

I read random forums and the problem is:sometimes i may read it and 3 or 4 days later i may become inspired to write something about it after playing a game and really think about it,so yes i do react to people's opinions as i read them all and eventually i may come to a conclusion.On my list so far of top hated ff:FF8 FFXII and FFXIII:FFXIII seems to produce a lot of negative reviews.


This post has been edited by Magitek_slayer on 10th February 2011 16:42

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

He's even saying Chrono Trigger had a bad story now. That's just grasping.

Quote (Cefca @ 10th February 2011 21:30)

He's even saying Chrono Trigger had a bad story now. That's just grasping.

Bad? its not bad i enjoyed the game very much.

The story was decent,but for me what really stood out was the gameplay.
I played it very late,like:10 years after it came out and i still instantly felt that nostalgic presence of the 90's that lured me like a kid.
The characters were good the gameplay was very engaging and overall:its one of heck of a game with replay value.



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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 10th February 2011 10:24)

You can have a game with good gameplay and a bad story and its still enjoyable if the gameplay is fairly good(legend of legaia,kartia word of fate ultima underworld Secret of evermore secret of mana chrono trigger etc etc)

Could have fooled me.

This post has been edited by Cefca on 10th February 2011 22:28

In Slayer's defense, I thought Chrono Trigger had a pretty bad story. I think I had to be a good five years younger to enjoy it, really. Great game, though, and uh...


This whole topic is a little on the pointless side, isn't it?

This post has been edited by Smash Genesis on 10th February 2011 23:27

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"When we think there's no hope left, we keep looking until we find some!" - Claire Farron

Quote (Smash Genesis @ 10th February 2011 23:26)

In Slayer's defense, I thought Chrono Trigger had a pretty bad story. I think I had to be a good five years younger to enjoy it, really. Great game, though, and uh...


This whole topic is a little on the pointless side, isn't it?

It was simple but its fine.
FF5 had a simple story as well,and the villain didn't exactly have motive.
Lavos was just plain evil and nothing more,it didn't turn evil or anything.

I thought the whole time travelling tool was very cool and being able to go into the ice age and the cities built were very cool.

I especially loved the ice age city part because it was awesome to see that civilization and the music was very sweet as well.

Overall:i prefer ff6 characters but i still think chrono trigger is a very very good game.I didn't think the characters were that deep.Frogs story was sad lucca i liked cause she was an intellectual and i kinda liked that.

Look,i thought the story was good but the villain and the characters didn't catch my attention and the plot as much as ff6 ok? but i still like the game.

I think honestly that the characters were less interesting in legend of legaia and secret of mana.


This post has been edited by Magitek_slayer on 10th February 2011 23:51

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 10th February 2011 15:16)

http://forums.ffshrine.org/f26/why-ff8-bas...uch-2288/2.html

I tried reading through that and got too annoyed. From what I can tell, the entire thread is basically "why is FFVIII the most hated? I liked it lol"
When someone wrote a post stating his numerous critisims, he was insulted for it being on the long side. TL;DR =/= debate victory. Your reasons for posting it are murky to me, M_S.
I know I'm not helping here, but can someone please close this thread?

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EGG TOSS
YOU CARRY
EAT A BAG
LEMON-DY
HEAD SAUCE
JIM CARREY
IN A BEAR
HEAVEN PEE
DAFFY-ROTH
- brentalfloss

Quote (Insegredious @ 11th February 2011 07:48)

When someone wrote a post stating his numerous critisims, he was insulted for it being on the long side. TL;DR =/= debate victory. Your reasons for posting it are murky to me, M_S.
I know I'm not helping here, but can someone please close this thread?

There is no reason to close this topic as long as we don't break any rules and the topic is about:3 ff games and we have been on topic.

I have multiple complaints about the game myself but its not that bad of a game.



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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Every game in the series has its complaints and its haters. Sure, some might have more of both of those than others, but that doesn't mean people think they're bad.

Except maybe with X-2.

Pound to a penny, if you'd go to just about any gaming site you'd find more people that like the games than hate them. Obviously there'd be people that hate some of them but I'd be willing to bet it would be a small percentage of the people that like them.