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I got a question folks

If kefka didn't get the whole magitek infusion would he still be evil?

I mean i want to believe that he was already evil because making him go evil because of that magitek infusion sounds like a excuse and kinda hurts the game in itself.

I like villains who are naturally evil but with a history behind them showing them how they started out evil but became progressively worse or are corrupt.

I think the thing that always got me in ff6 was kefka and gestahl as a villain

I viewed them as the epitome of corruption.

Both are double crossers and i would not be surprised if gestahl had killed off kefka if he had gotten his hands on more power.

That's why i liked shinra as a villain and rufus

They were corrupt and selfish and not the typical i am going to conquer the world villain.

I think also that the villain of secret of mana also sold himself out and was corrupt

I remember this line:Thanatos sold his soul to the underworld.

I liked kuja too actually,because he was grieving and furious in the end over what garland had done,he had become enfuriated and sour and hatefull and wanted to just destroy existance.

Sourness is a bad trait and it certainly can make us retaliate and hurt people who are friendly,and later on when he realized what happene.


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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

For a start, the Magitek infusion didn't make Kefka "evil", it turned him crazy. Also, I wouldn't say him and Gestahl were "corrupt". I guess that is a correct use of the word, but it seems weird to call them that.


I'm also not entirely sure one could call Shinra and Rufus "not your typical take over the world villain". I guess they weren't exactly that, but they were close. They didn't use military force, mostly, but they weren't against using it.

Finally, from what I remember, Kuja wasn't angry at Garland, he was angry that he was going to die.


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"The Lord Bob Bree is my shepherd,
I shall not want;
He makes me post in Scenario topics.
He leads me beside GameFOX;
He restores my karma.
He leads me in paths of moderation
for His name's sake."
-Nick of Five

We never see him before the experiment so we can't really say whether the experiment made him crazy or evil. So the question is, is he inherently evil, or was he turned evil by his environment or his situation?

Honestly, there's no way to tell. Like I said, we never see him before the infusion, and honestly, we don't have enough information to know if the infusion even turned him crazy. No one else reacted that way to the infusion, was it botched? Who knows, there's a lot of fan fiction, and I'm sure there is some explanation given in the story I'm forgetting.

I'll just offer what I've always thought. Though he may have been slightly crazy, I believe a lot of what he did was just for show. He used that possibly to intimidate his enemies, or maybe it was rather for fun.

I use this for evidence: he waited for the returners at the end. Remember? He says, I've prepared a show for you. That's the sick thing about his character, he does those things for the enjoyment of it.

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Praise Be To Helix!

Hmm i would say actually that yes they had interest in controlling forces but shinra seemed to care most about is money and keeping what they had for power.

Still i thought shinra makes a interesting villain


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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Kefka is and always has been crazy. As far as I'm concerned hes the perfect villain.

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A creature born from eternal darkness and heavenly light. One single entity, birthed of two opposites. They somehow coexist, to create I, the Lunarian Prince...

The magitek fusion did, indeed, turn Kefka insane. I believe there's a line in the game hinting that he was never the same after the infusion, which possibly meant he wasn't necessarily a bad guy beforehand. The power went to his head, and throughout the game we see his power struggle in an attempt to gain as much power as possible.

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

1) He enslaves the esper/human Terra in order to make use of her power, and turns her against other soldiers.
2) He betrays King Edgar's alliance in order to reclaim Terra
3) He poisons Doma against General Leo's orders and even tricks his fellow general to leave
4) Kefka murders a village of espers and kills General Leo in an attempt to get one step closer to higher power
5) He throws his last ally, Emperor Gesthal, off the floating continent, in order to secure that he's the only one getting the ultimate power
6) He drains the 3 statues and seems entierly happy with the destroyed new-world.

I don't think Kefka is necessarily 'evil'. I think he's insane and power-hungry before he's evil, although he's certainly a little of both. But isn't everyone in that game seeking their own 'ultimate' power? Food for thought, perhaps Kefka might have been an ally instead of an enemy.

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"A little tight, but the price was right" - Locke
"Oh, what a Fuddy Duddy" - Relm
"..." - Shadow
"I'm a General, not some love starved twit" - Celes
"Although Edgar showers his attention on the ladies, most are smart enough to pay him no attention. Oh! King Edgar!" - Figaro Castle Inn Attendant

Quote (Locke_Cole @ 17th January 2010 16:36)

The magitek fusion did, indeed, turn Kefka insane. I believe there's a line in the game hinting that he was never the same after the infusion, which possibly meant he wasn't necessarily a bad guy beforehand. The power went to his head, and throughout the game we see his power struggle in an attempt to gain as much power as possible.

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

1) He enslaves the esper/human Terra in order to make use of her power, and turns her against other soldiers.
2) He betrays King Edgar's alliance in order to reclaim Terra
3) He poisons Doma against General Leo's orders and even tricks his fellow general to leave
4) Kefka murders a village of espers and kills General Leo in an attempt to get one step closer to higher power
5) He throws his last ally, Emperor Gesthal, off the floating continent, in order to secure that he's the only one getting the ultimate power
6) He drains the 3 statues and seems entierly happy with the destroyed new-world.

I don't think Kefka is necessarily 'evil'. I think he's insane and power-hungry before he's evil, although he's certainly a little of both. But isn't everyone in that game seeking their own 'ultimate' power? Food for thought, perhaps Kefka might have been an ally instead of an enemy.

NO WAY!!

he is evil for sure

The reason being,he would do anything to get that power,even betray his allies.

He is greedy and wants it all for himself,the proof is he betrayed gestahl.


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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 17th January 2010 13:26)

He is greedy and wants it all for himself,the proof is he betrayed gestahl.

That's capitalism. Do we call Donald Trump evil? Well, he's just a great businessman. Now, how many people do you think he's stepped on to get to that point? Greed is the engine of the American system. Is that evil? Some say yes. I am one of them in certain situation.

I believe that the infusion turning him crazy is kind of a cop-out argument. Celes was infused with magic, and she was not turned evil or insane.

The reason he did what he did is because he is egomaniacal. You are right, his greed is so powerful that he causes all of those events to occur. The infusion just gave him an outlet. Yes, maybe it had some adverse effects, but he had to have a evil personality beforehand.

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Praise Be To Helix!

Quote (BlitzSage @ 17th January 2010 19:24)

Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 17th January 2010 13:26)

He is greedy and wants it all for himself,the proof is he betrayed gestahl.

That's capitalism. Do we call Donald Trump evil? Well, he's just a great businessman. Now, how many people do you think he's stepped on to get to that point? Greed is the engine of the American system. Is that evil? Some say yes. I am one of them in certain situation.

I believe that the infusion turning him crazy is kind of a cop-out argument. Celes was infused with magic, and she was not turned evil or insane.

The reason he did what he did is because he is egomaniacal. You are right, his greed is so powerful that he causes all of those events to occur. The infusion just gave him an outlet. Yes, maybe it had some adverse effects, but he had to have a evil personality beforehand.

that's exactly what i believe actually

couldn't have said it better either

the whole going crazy turns evil seems like too much a cop out and its bad writing.

And greed is a kind of evil


It is a sin

greed
pride
lust
wrath
sloth

kefka has greed pride lust and wrath.




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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

There is eveidene to support that he was not totally messed up prior to his magitek infusion.

At the cafe in vector, a man says "Kefka was Cid's first experimental magitek knight, but the process wasn't perfected yet. Something in Kefka's mind snapped that day."

Though not spelled out, it's heavily implied that magic infusion was perfected by the time of Celes's magic infusion, hence the reason why she didn't lose her mind.

As to his personality before the infusion, that's all open to speculation. Maybe he was ruthless and greedy back then, and the infusion simply amplified his natural persona to excessise levels.

Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 17th January 2010 15:16)

the whole going crazy turns evil seems like too much a cop out and its bad writing.

And greed is a kind of evil


It is a sin

Isn't it great that you can let your imagination run wild since the story proper doesn't say one way or the other?

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"Cavefish is delicious, but only if cooked."

Indeed, I hate it when people start trying to make sense out of this kind of stuff. Final Fantasy is so much more enjoyable when confusing.

Ultimania? Sorry, I know you have a point there, and I may even agree, but I like to think of Ultimecia as a witch lusting for power (or time kompression, in this case), not some love starved woman.

FF7 plot's charm lies in it being so confusing, with clones of alien gods who die and come back to life, and having a lot of clones themselves, do stuff.

That said, let's move on.

Kefka is evil. Lack of information about his background is a blessing. Some villains get better with motives and background (Kuja, Xande, Seymour, to name a few. I still think Xande got screwed and Seymour has a little point there). But not Kefka. He's insane because he's insane, he's evil because he's evil, he deep fries people because he can, and it's fun. That's all I care about.

Once you explain the joke, it stops being funny. Sephiroth and Kefka are the same. What matters is that they're insane. And if you're walking down the street and start hearing Dancing Mad's 4th movement or One WInged Angel, RUN.

This post has been edited by Toransu Kuja on 18th January 2010 20:42

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Snooping as usual, I see?

Quote (Toransu Kuja @ 18th January 2010 16:41)

Kefka is evil. Lack of information about his background is a blessing. Some villains get better with motives and background (Kuja, Xande, Seymour, to name a few. I still think Xande got screwed and Seymour has a little point there). But not Kefka. He's insane because he's insane, he's evil because he's evil, he deep fries people because he can, and it's fun. That's all I care about.

Once you explain the joke, it stops being funny. Sephiroth and Kefka are the same. What matters is that they're insane. And if you're walking down the street and start hearing Dancing Mad's 4th movement or One WInged Angel, RUN.

I couldn't disagree more. Whether the background information is provided by the creators or not, it is still there. I remember Quentin Tarantino saying once about the Kill Bill movies, that he sometimes left certain elements of the story out of the movie, but those things still existed, and created the mythology of those movies.

The writers of FFVI did not tell exactly why he is insane, though they did obviously imply that the magitek infusion changed him. But they did not explain why he volunteered in the first place. Nevertheless, there is a backstory, and it is told through his psychology. Through his actions and dialogue you can get an idea of who he is. He's not just insane, he's many other things too. If he wasn't, and he was just evil to be evil, he would be interchangeable with any other villain. He would be bland, generic, and that would ultimately not be entertaining.

What I find most enjoyable about him is that you never know if he's lying to you. He wants to destroy the world, but yet he waits all of that time not doing so, and then prepares for the heroes therefore knowing of their survival all along...? Is he really misanthropic, or is he playing a game?

Yes, he is insane, but there is a brilliancy within it, because of the questions it raises.

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Praise Be To Helix!

Something about the unrefined techniques used in early magitek infusion process was mentioned in conjunction to Kefka in that very same conversation. Because of this it's highly likely that the official tale goes something like it made him go crazy. It'd be rather an unfortunate waste of a highly passionate villain if that is indeed the case though, so I more or less prefer to believe that the snap was more of a click to him.

You see, as mentioned above, Kefka acts progressively worse throughout the course of the game, in a manner that almost parallels the amount of power vested in him. However, he's a deviously sadistic narcissist from pretty much the first time we lay eyes on his behavior. So what I prefer to think is that it neither make him crazy nor corrupted but that he was innately like this to begin with. What did the Magitek process do to make him so notably different? The power he gained finally gave him the ability to act upon it.

The difference between this and power corrupting is rather subtle but also rather noteworthy for our purposes. For power to corrupt a person, the individual would've needed to have some sort of innate decency to begin with to degenerate with their ability to better their own lifestyle, social standing or what have you. Since Kefka's position in life was as foreseeably good as it ever could've been, most likely since his very birth as a noble though, I very much doubt this is the case.

I would therefore rather think Kefka's rather the opposite, being something of an emberous evil being fueled by the coals of power into flames of hatred and destruction demanding more. The Magitek infusion didn't shroud his better judgement for he quite likely had none to begin with, outside of what'll get him what he wants. Rather, it set him apart from his peers justifying his elitism and further enabled his maliciousness. In this way it's possible that he wasn't really perverted into some sort of raving lunatic but rather, nudged him further into the direction he was already inclined to go. That's my theory anyway.

This post has been edited by Tonepoet on 19th January 2010 15:39

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Role reversal at its finest.

Thing about kefka:

I don't agree with some people who say kefka has no backstory.

He isn't just evil because he is.

Kefka is evil because he is selfish cold 2 faced arrogant narcissistic power hungry insane clown.

He only plays kind because he wants something from the emperor and using him as a advantage to gain power stimulate his ego.

Ok so its true that they don't dwell too deep in his past because that would ruin the game and kill the surprise

Plus,he might not have had such a interesting past.

It is the others he has effects on in the past such as terra and maduin and the empire's people and even other cities and towns is what's important.

I also highly doubt that he wasn't evil before the magitek infusion.

It would be most likely that he was greedy and wanted the magitek power bring himself closer to his desire.

It is possible that it made him crazy but i doubt that he wasn't a psychopath and a narcissist before the experiment.

Besides,you see how good he is at manipulating the soldiers and badmouthing them while staying on gestahls good side.

Heck,i don't even know if gestahl cares if kefka insults and demeanors the soldiers.



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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

You guys know there actually is an Ultimania book of sorts for the game that (may or may not have ever been translated) that details the background elements of almost everything in the game, right?

The answer for Kefka's questions would most be certainly found in there.

Quote

Celes was infused with magic, and she was not turned evil or insane.

The procedure was perfected by the time Celes received (and everyone else in the Imperial army, including Ghestal, besides for Leo) it, so she suffered no side effects. Kefka got screwed because he was the prototype. Most of the versions of FFVI (more specifically, the guy in the Pub in Vector) state this one way or the other.

This post has been edited by Tryscal The Great on 24th January 2010 00:19

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//www.rpgmaker.net/
We make games. Period.

(New member. I think my older sister is here)

Tryscal is correct. It isn't really a Ultimania, although one of them has a few things about FFVI in it. There is a VI guide all about the past.

By the time Celes received the infusion, it was perfected. Kefka had always been...a little weird (kinda evil) but the infusion pushed his sanity over the edge and now he is a crazy-bird.

Some translators have said that Kefka (I don't mean to be rude or anything) lived in Thamasa because he was a orphan. Later on, as a child, he was

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

raped

and that's what started his mental breakdown, sorta.

He later on carries this insanity out after being infused badly and keeps Terra locked up in the labs. Some say he does that because he felt "locked" up in Thamasa.

Quote

The writers of FFVI did not tell exactly why he is insane, though they did obviously imply that the magitek infusion changed him. But they did not explain why he volunteered in the first place. Nevertheless, there is a backstory, and it is told through his psychology. Through his actions and dialogue you can get an idea of who he is. He's not just insane, he's many other things too. If he wasn't, and he was just evil to be evil, he would be interchangeable with any other villain. He would be bland, generic, and that would ultimately not be entertaining.

Actually, they have told why he is insane. In the guide books and a little bit in the Ultimanias.

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A Magitek Elite knight! :P

Bringing back what crashed. A FFVI community!

Quote (MagitekElite @ 24th January 2010 23:57)

Tryscal is correct. It isn't really a Ultimania, although one of them has a few things about FFVI in it. There is a VI guide all about the past.

I would like to see this book, because the contents about Kefka are news to me. I can at least say that material doesn't come from the book that's most frequently accused of being the FF6 Ultimania, or any of the other guides I own.

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"Cavefish is delicious, but only if cooked."

Quote (MagitekElite @ 25th January 2010 04:57)

Some translators have said that Kefka (I don't mean to be rude or anything) lived in Thamasa because he was a orphan. Later on, as a child, he was

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

raped

and that's what started his mental breakdown, sorta.

That was actually all made up by a fan (or fans?)

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"The Lord Bob Bree is my shepherd,
I shall not want;
He makes me post in Scenario topics.
He leads me beside GameFOX;
He restores my karma.
He leads me in paths of moderation
for His name's sake."
-Nick of Five

Not sure about the "rape" part, but the rest is true. Which is how ew found out before Dissidia came out, that Terra loves Moogles and hates small places.

It's called the "Final Fantasy VI Adventure Guide book" don't bother FFwiki, they don't have much. I could only get one page translated, but if you guys would like the contents of that, I could post it here.

Although its the complete background for Figaro, not Kefka...

Everything else (not sure about the "rape" part) is true. There was also a rumor about one page saying Kefka was called the "shark" of the Empire.

More about it:

They say Kefka killed Gastra's original Court Magister (or was it Adviser?) to take his place. Gastra found out and took Kefka down ranks to just a smaller general.

What it says about Kefka turning evil, is not only because of the infusion. Celes was promoted to a higher level before him and that sent his anger and hate problems off which in turn, caused the infusion to finally snap his mind and now, he's insane.

I currently only have two scans, but they aren't that good of scans.

http://i47.tinypic.com/ogkx7m.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/2i87lgh.jpg
http://i48.tinypic.com/2vtxxdt.jpg

That's all I got for scans right now

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A Magitek Elite knight! :P

Bringing back what crashed. A FFVI community!

So, if you haven't actually translated the stuff about Kefka yet, where did you find the translation of it? I ask, because as I said before, there's false info going around about Kefka (also, that I couldn't find any mention of this "Adventure Guide Book", except on e-bay). Namely, stuff like this: http://forums.ffonline.com/showthread.php?t=48883



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"The Lord Bob Bree is my shepherd,
I shall not want;
He makes me post in Scenario topics.
He leads me beside GameFOX;
He restores my karma.
He leads me in paths of moderation
for His name's sake."
-Nick of Five

The translations have been made, I don't currently have the scans.

Well, of course there is false information about Kefka going about, it happens to everything. But the fact that its in the books means something. Some of which were created a little bit before the game.

Of course you can't find it on ebay. Its extremely rare and isn't been made anymore.

I've never heard of that stuff on FFO. The books clearly state he was infused with magic, not naturally born with it. People must have translated it wrong...people do it all the time.



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A Magitek Elite knight! :P

Bringing back what crashed. A FFVI community!

Quote (MagitekElite @ 26th January 2010 00:09)

Of course you can't find it on ebay. Its extremely rare and isn't been made anymore.

Actually, you can find it on E-bay, right here

just sayin is all

This post has been edited by Nytecrawla on 26th January 2010 04:25

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This is a webcomic and gaming blog where I rant about nonsense. Enjoy.

I was a soldier, now I just play one in video games.

You found one of them? o.O

There are others, like the character profiles that have the full backgrounds.

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A Magitek Elite knight! :P

Bringing back what crashed. A FFVI community!

I own the Basic Knowledge book shown in the scans above, and it's not story-oriented. It's straight up lists - moves, magic, equipment, monsters. Kefka isn't even mentioned in it because it doesn't cover bosses. Lots of cool drawings of weapons and items though.

I also have the Adventure Guidebook; it is a walkthrough, perhaps even less exciting than Basic Knowledge. The interesting book is Creation Materials, but if it had anything on Kefka I would have translated that years ago. First.

http://www.cavesofnarshe.com/forums/ipb/in...wtopic=6806&hl=
http://www.cavesofnarshe.com/forums/ipb/in...topic=11394&hl=

Examples of the interesting stuff. Also, examples of how people want these books to be more than they are.

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"Cavefish is delicious, but only if cooked."

Oh...

In that case, all that information about Kefka is false, except that he grew up in an orphanage (the location of which isn't known, but almost certainly not in Thamasa).

--------------------

"The Lord Bob Bree is my shepherd,
I shall not want;
He makes me post in Scenario topics.
He leads me beside GameFOX;
He restores my karma.
He leads me in paths of moderation
for His name's sake."
-Nick of Five

Woo, my first post in some time.

Anyway... I was also pray of thinking some of those books contained neat stuff, so I went ahead and bought them all (even if I don't know Japanese, silly neh?) , still I'm happy to have them. I put some more info in here (oh, and sorry if I made a mistake around there, because of the Japanese factor):

http://www.cavesofnarshe.com/forums/ipb/in...showtopic=14093

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"Love, and do what you will" Saint Augustine

Awesome, I heard that there was some good stuff in The Complete, but I never picked it up. Sadly, these days I don't have the disposable income that I used to...

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"Cavefish is delicious, but only if cooked."

Do you happen to have the Character Profiles as well?

As I said, they were rumors. Someone translated that while Kefka was at the orphanage, he was raped.

Someone had a small, little black book with quick sketches that had basic information about FFVI. It had the SE logo on it and everything.

Damn, I wish I still had the scans. I should check my PC.

@Shiva Indis:
Me too, I wish I had the Complete, Adventure Guide book and the character profiles

Did anyone hear about the Figaro background? That I know, is actually true. It was made before the game and the person who designed Edgar and Sabin (Mash to some) help create it. It's actually canon

There's a chart that goes with it and explains why Edgar appears to come off creepy to Relm.

EDIT:

What about this? Has anyone heard of this?

ファイナルファンタジー6 アドバンス 公式コンプリートガイド (単行本（ソフトカバー）)




This post has been edited by MagitekElite on 27th January 2010 02:22

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A Magitek Elite knight! :P

Bringing back what crashed. A FFVI community!

That Figaro stuff can be found here. Also, other places, but I can't remember them. Note that it being listed as "Fiction" is due to the manner in which the site relates the information, not the information itself.

EDIT: Also, the character sections for Edgar and Sabin in Djibriel's guide.

This post has been edited by Lord Bob Bree on 27th January 2010 04:05

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"The Lord Bob Bree is my shepherd,
I shall not want;
He makes me post in Scenario topics.
He leads me beside GameFOX;
He restores my karma.
He leads me in paths of moderation
for His name's sake."
-Nick of Five