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That's the last time I listen it my brother! He was the one who told me that the sword toght (sp?) you Ultima, and that wasn't the time he mislead me either! Come to think of it, I think he chose the esper too! *sigh* I feel sooo stupid now...

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"If you believe you can tell me what to think, I believe I can tell you where to go." -unknown
Long live the crazy old man!
Sorry, I can't spell, so don't bother me about it, kay?
The world would be a better place without homophobics...

Quote (Endless Knight @ 29th August 2004 19:59)

Sword for reasons already stated and because "I like swords."

Go 8-bit theater!

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"If you believe you can tell me what to think, I believe I can tell you where to go." -unknown
Long live the crazy old man!
Sorry, I can't spell, so don't bother me about it, kay?
The world would be a better place without homophobics...

Hmm... I havent gotten that far yet, but i think from hearing you all, im going to go with the Esper

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Game - Location ---------- Score
FF -------- Got the Canoe --- B-
FFII ------ That Pond -------- C+
FFIII ----- ... ----------------- N/A
FFV ------ The N Zone ------- B+
FFVI ------ WOR ------------- A
FFVII ----- The Gold Saucer- A+
FFVIII ---- COMPLETED ----- D-
FFIX ------ COMPLETED ----- B+
FFT ------- COMPLETED ----- A

the sword all the way its just so much better cause physical attacks are more reliable but thats probiblty the hardest choice in the game actually more like the only one

The sword cause it's more effectif than the esper

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They may be monsters, but they're sea monsters. What're they gonna do? Flop around on deck and suffocate at us threateningly?

The esper, because I wanted to learn all of the magic in the game and have all of the espers.

Quote (The Great Irvine @ 28th August 2004 13:17)

but the sword is one of the strongest in the game.  It all comes down to personal preference.

yeah, but the esper Ragnarok is the only one that can teach Ultima to the party (that is the strongest spell in the game....)

Quote (Mirager @ 29th August 2004 09:04)

You could learn ultima from the cursed sheild later anyway..

oh, that's true? I didn't know that you could learn Ultima from that sheild....

Moderator Edit

Please don't double post like this. Read all the posts in the thread, and then respond, not the other way around. It reduces junk in the forums. -R51

This post has been edited by Rangers51 on 7th September 2004 11:07

You have to uncurse it first. So you learn Ultima from the Paladin Shield, which is the best shield in the game.

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"Look at me! I'm a receptionist! G'fa ha ha!" Quote Ultros

Getting the Esper is much more effective then the bloody stinking piece-o-crap sword. First off the sword really doesnt do THAT much more damage when you look at it. Hell, if you're killing enemies in one shot with the friggin Atma Weapon, why the hell would you need the Illumina?

I still don't see whats so good about the Illumina, as I got it and it doesnt do THAT much more damage. The esper is definietly a better choice.

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"A little tight, but the price was right" - Locke
"Oh, what a Fuddy Duddy" - Relm
"..." - Shadow
"I'm a General, not some love starved twit" - Celes
"Although Edgar showers his attention on the ladies, most are smart enough to pay him no attention. Oh! King Edgar!" - Figaro Castle Inn Attendant

Quote (Locke Cole)

Hell, if you're killing enemies in one shot with the friggin Atma Weapon, why the hell would you need the Illumina?

Um, because it boosts the user's Vigor, Speed, Stamina and Magic Power by 7, and boosts MBlock by 50%. Plus Celes can Runic with it.

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FFXI (Siren server)
Tauu the Windurstian Tarutaru!
White Mage & Paladin

Quote (Locke_Cole @ 9th September 2004 19:54)

Getting the Esper is much more effective then the bloody stinking piece-o-crap sword.

Yes, 9999 damage plus a chance for a random flare or pearl attack is rather "crappy". Not to mention the stat boosts.

As previously said, it's really a personal preference. In one setup, you get to use an esper, morph and teach ultima to most of your people. On the other hand, you get access to the best sword in the game, you can teach ultima to most of your people and you just happen to spend the time to gain the best shield.

[sarcasm]I can really see how one is "much more effective"...[/sarcasm] In reality, they're both fine choices.

Let´s compare the two possible choices:

SWORD
Excellent sword that raises a character´s stats by heavy amounts, plus giving a random chance of throwing Flare against the targets in question. However, the Atma Weapon always deals 9999 DMG if the character has high HP, plus you simply don´t need the Illumina; you already have too many strong swords and stuff (Atma Weapon, Excalibur, Aura Lance, Sky Render, Tiger Fangs etc).
To be completely honest, the only benefit with this sword are the stat increases;
neither the strength nor the random Flare are special enough.

ESPER
One of the best Espers in the entire game, simply because it makes it possible to collect extremely rare items by morphing enemies (to make it easier, have Gogo mime the cast over and over).
It also feels more complete if all the Espers are gathered, instead of the swords.

Personally, I tend to save my progress on two files before executing the choice, so that I can have both things on two different save slots.

This post has been edited by Peter on 7th October 2004 13:02

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"Wait!" he says...do I look like a waiter? - Kefka, Final Fantasy VI

I say Esper because there are some things that you need to get by Metamorphosis

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The black wind howls again...
Say, can you hear that? It's the sound of the Reaper...
- Magus

ya i agree with magus19 on this one. If you get the esper you can use it to metamorph things to get some good items like an exp. egg...Another good thing about getting the esper is that you can teach your charicters the ultima spell permanently, and if you uncurse the shield (i didn't, just was too lazy) you can teach it to two people at the same time, or on 1 person twice as fast.

But on the other hand if you get the sword, you can use ultima automatically, but sadly with only 1 person unless you de-curse the shield. And by far the best thing to do if you have the sword is to throw it at kefka durring the final battle to deal some massive damage...

Overall i think its better to get the esper rather than the sword, i mean whats the fun in killing kefka in 1 or 2 shots?

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Treasure hunter and trail-worn traveler, searching the world over for relics of the past...

Quote (insane kiba @ 3rd October 2004 19:20)

Overall i think its better to get the esper rather than the sword, i mean whats the fun in killing kefka in 1 or 2 shots?

As someone once said, "There's no kill like overkill."

which one should i go for? i know the esper can beused to morph enemies into good items. but i also know the sword is very powerful and can be traded for the Illumina. i also know if you throw either of the swords in battle(oh let's say...Kefka), it'll completely annihilate that enemy. so, which should i get?

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moé in the streets, senpai in the sheets

9999 is the most damage in a single stroke. Period. Go for the sword and get illumina
Paladin shield can teach ultima.

Morph is tiresome and i never saw a need for it. Shadow can throw a Fork and get the same amount of damage (Imp Halbred)

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If you've been mod-o-fied,
It's an illusion, and you're in-between.
Don't you be tarot-fied,
It's just alot of nothing, so what can it mean?
~Frank Zappa

Sins exist only for people who are on the Way or approaching the Way

The "throw xxx weapon and kill kefka in one hit" is a myth, nothing more. There's no special scripts (in an unhacked rom, anyways) that deal with killing kefka with the throw command.

And MogMaster got it. Get the sword and trade it in for illumina, which will make whoever you give it to near-godly. Uncurse the cursed shield and get the ultima spell that way.

I chose the sword because the esper is useless.
It turns only a handful of enemies into items, and that handful three is only 3 or 4 that are remotely good.
Besides, if you want to get ultma SO bad you can just un-curse the paladin's shield.

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Yeah, I know the name is stupid. I made this account when I was 14.

What can I say, I love magicite. There are some things you can do with it that are useful. Here is a list of things I can think of off the top of my head:

•A faster way to learn Ultima either by x2 or by skiping Paladin sheild all together.
•A way to get infinite amounts of otherwise limeted items such as Safety Bit.
•A one time casting of an instant death spell for 6 MP.
•A way to instantly kill the 8 dragons(Pearl Dragon, Ice Dragon Ect.).

So it isn't like the Esper isn't without it's good points. The sword sounds superior but I have seen allot of good swords in RPGs. FFVI isn't any special execption either with the Atma Weapon, Excalibur and Scimitar. Then with all of the other weapon types you can equip all 14 people with somthing good. That being said, you can't go wrong either way, you just can't take back your choice. My opinion is biased because I only took the sword once and didn't use it long. Just a little fair warning.

Oh and before I forget I have a question. Detah said on June 4th 2004:

Quote

There is a cool way to make the Cursed Shield's effects work to your benefit. I call it Crazy Strago Healer. Equip Strago with Heal Rod, Cursed Shield, Ribbon and Marvel Shoes/Hero Ring/White Cape. Now Strago will be uncontrollable (due to the Muddle property of the Cursed Shield), but he will heal a party member every turn.

Can somebody explain this to me again? I thought the Ribbon protected against Muddle status on the wearer. Even if you equip the cursed sheild. Is there something I am missing? Thanks to whomever decides to help in advance.

This post has been edited by Tonepoet on 22nd November 2004 00:44

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Role reversal at its finest.

Then again, it is up to your style of playing. Either is a fine choice, but I find the sword to be infinitely more useful.

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Yeah, I know the name is stupid. I made this account when I was 14.

you can steal a ragnoark sword from one of the 3 statues.....

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procastinate now, dont put it off

I always try to get every esper. So I picked the magicite. I don't need the sword, just give Mog the Lance you get from the Wt. Dragon and watch the enemies fall.

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Could you repeat that?

Quote (Blythe @ 29th November 2004 02:05)

you can steal a ragnoark sword from one of the 3 statues.....

Rather you can steal it from one of the bosses in the last fight, which gives you no way to trade it in for an illumina.

Ragnarok
Locations: Narshe (WoR), Steal From:girl

wow ...........

do you people look at anything other than BAT power???

the illumina raises your physical and magic dodge both by 50% !!!

its got 255 bat power..........and can cast pearl on hit, uses mp to crit......

it raises several of your stats by 9, including magic, very important

the atma weapon gives you nothing but bat power,.........its a completely worthless sword in my opinion, look at the other things weapons do, not just their bat power, it will do you lots of good

[edit] oh - and stealing a weapon during the last fight........is kind of pointless since .........there is no save after the last fight.........yeah'


This post has been edited by mooglemadness on 8th December 2004 06:10

Either way you look at it, this choice is kind of a bad one. Let's lay out the facts.
The Ragnarok esper AND the Ragnarok sword are both stupid. Also, it's impossible to get a perfect game, because without the ragnarok sword and illumina you don't have all the items, and without the ragnarok esper you don't have all the espers. Besides that, you can't have the Odin and Raiden espers at the same time without hacking. Anyway...

Ragnarok/Illumina sword: Not bad, that is, if you don't equip the offering. The reason the Atma weapon beats all is because it still takes 9999 damage every time even with the offering equipped, and therefore you can take up to 80,000 damage with two atma weapons. The MP boost on Illumina has no effect when you have the offering equipped, and therefore doesn't do 9999 damage each time. Besides that, even with the MP boost, it costs an insane amount of MP. The Economizer relic doesn't negate the MP cost either. How lame is that? The sword is only good for stat boosts, and if you were smart you would have boosted your stats enough already using espers so the boosts won't make much difference.

Ragnarok Esper: Yeah, you have all the espers now. Aren't you proud? Too bad you don't have either Odin or Raiden Now let's look at the esper. It teaches Ultima. OK...but obviously the Paladin shield does too, so you can survive without the esper so far...second, the morph ability. Let's do this. Go to the Colloseum with a high level character with the Atma weapon equipped. Bet as many Fenix Downs as you have to get a ton of magicite. Then, find the veterans in the Kefka tower. Use Magicite until you morph a cursed ring and two thornlets. Bet a thornlet and win a mirage vest at the colloseum. Ta-da! You've just gotten every item you can get with only the esper, and you didn't even get the esper. Good job.

On my own game, I have 253 items and no ragnarok esper, because I tried to get the max items on that one. I'd only have 252 without (I have an illumina), but it is impossible to get more than 253 of the 255 items at one time without hacking (except in the last battle where you can steal a ragnarok), but the fact remains, you can never have both a cursed shield and a paladin shield at the same time, so it is impossible to perfect your item list...and you can never have both the odin and raiden esper at the same time, so you can never truly perfect your esper list either. Another fact is that both Illumina and Ragnarok esper are useless, you can function fine without them.

Just equip Locke with Atma weapon, Valiant Knife, offering and genji glove (and make sure to boost his vigor to over 100) and you'll be doing 80,000 damage each turn Believe me, I boosted some of my guys to have 128 Vigor/Magic Power (which is max) it's entirely possible....and yes, I am a ff6 freak in case you were wondering.

This post has been edited by LeviathanMist on 8th December 2004 06:43

Quote (LeviathanMist @ 8th December 2004 01:41)

I think I disagree with just about every statement you made in your post.

"Also, it's impossible to get a perfect game, because without the ragnarok sword and illumina you don't have all the items, and without the ragnarok esper you don't have all the espers. "
False. It is true that it is impossible to get a perfect game. But not for the reason you listed. You can get both the Ragnarok and the Illumina rather easily. Get Ragnarok from Narshe Item shop and choose to make it a sword. Take it to the Colosseum and win to get the Illumina. Now in Kefka's Tower steal from Girl (in the final monster mountain battle).

I completely disagree with your assessment of the Atma Weapon's superiority.
I have already written a very detailed explanation of why the Illumina is superior to the Atma Weapon.
http://www.cavesofnarshe.com/forums/ipb/in...?showtopic=2512

"Economizer relic doesn't negate the MP cost either. How lame is that? The sword is only good for stat boosts, and if you were smart you would have boosted your stats enough already using espers so the boosts won't make much difference."
* I dont think the Economizer was ever intended to reduce all MP costs. I believe it was designed only to reduce the cost of Spells, Espers and Lores.
* the designers of the game saw fit to give you the option to raise your stats with Espers during level up AND with equipment. Why is it lame that they gave 2 options to raise stats? I am all for that. I am pleased with the fact that they didnt provide 500 pts of stat gains but cap the stats at some low number like 50. Arbitrary, pointless stat caps like that have ruined more than one RPG, not just CRPGs.
* I think several other people have already pointed out the benefits of stat boosts. I concur. Raise your Magic Power by 20 points, you will see a difference. (of course the +10 levels obscure the 20 Magic Power points some, but the effect on damage is quite clear.)

"Another fact is that both Illumina and Ragnarok esper are useless, you can function fine without them."
One could say the same thing about the Atma Weapon. In fact, I play all my games without it. It gives me no enjoyment at all. I do get great enjoyment out of finding, winning, and optimizing my characters with the Illumina. The MBlock bonus is a crucial element to solving several low level game segments. I get great enjoyment out of it and for me, the Illumina is one of the defining aspects of the Final Fantasy game series. For me, FF just wouldnt be the same, if I couldnt get the Illumina. So I think this is very much about perspective and tastes. Therefore, I dont think it is reasonable to make a blanket statement that the Illumina or the Ragnarok Esper are useless. I know lots of people find the Ragnarok Esper to be the coolest Esper special power.

oooooooh it's pretty close with the votes there. I went with sword. mainly because it's pretty powerful, and it looks really friggin' cool. Plus, the esper summon is pretty much worthless...but then again I am not an expert by far on FF6...so I might be missing something good about the summon.

The sword is just far too groovy to pass up. Besides there are other ways to learn Ultima.

Terra learns ultima on her own at lvl 80 something which is about 2 hours of traing with egg+invsiable in the dino forest so if your to lazy to de-curse shield and you got the magicte then this is the way to go....

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procastinate now, dont put it off