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We've been skirting the issue with the Atma Weapon's power in several posts. The Atma Weapon graphic is cool. But lets compare pros and cons of each weapon.

* Max damage from 1 hit from Illumina can do 19,998 dam. Max damage from 1 hit from Atma Weapon can do 9,999.

* If Illumina doesn't do its special Pearl attack, then Atma Weapon could be better, because it Ignores Defense.

EDIT: This means you have a distinct advantage over high defense monsters (DEF > 200) when using the Atma Weapon. Those 15 monsters are: Cactrot, Tritoch, Bloompire, Uroburos, MagiMaster, Air Force Speck, ProtoArmor, Adamanchyt, Garm, Delta Bug, Magic Urn, Ifrit, Commando, and Luridan. And unless you encounter them later on the Veldt, you wont even have an Atma Weapon during your first encounter for 4 of those.

* Illumina has 100% hit probability. Atma Weapon does not.

* Atma Weapon doesn't reach its potential until your Level is greater than 64 and you have hp=maxhp. ie. Illumina's average damage is greater than Atma Weapon's average damage before L64.

* Illumina has MPTurbo. So it does a crithit every round.

* Illumina has chance to cast Pearl. There are only a handful of enemies in the game which are immune to or absorb Pearl/Holy. So this is an excellent special (even compared to other specials).

* Illumina is SDBR (Same Damage Back Row), which means you take less damage on defense and still dish out awesome damage.

* Illumina gives +7 to all 4 stats.

* Illumina provides 50% MBlock%.

In the rare case that you are battling Cactrots to earn MP, Atma Weapon may be the route to go. Even then you need to get at least 2 hits to kill it. Alternatively, if you get lucky and get the Illumina Pearl, you could win in 1 round. So even in the rare situation where Atma Weapon has the advantage (versus high DEF critters), Atma Weapon is not the hands down best weapon.

Based on that, I'm gonna have to go with the Illumina in every situation.

Whoa, I didn't realize that the Illumina is SDBR. I must start getting the Ragnarok sword (to bet for the Illumina) instead of the magicite more often...

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Well, since I normally get the Magicite and not the Sword Ragnarok, I have to go with the Atma Weapon myself.

Well, the Ragnarok CAN be stolen from that monster and you can't get the magicite anywhere else.....

Which monster? It was originally said it was Goddess, but that is incorrect. Is there another Monster with a Ragnarok?

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It's been said that you could steal Ragnarok from Goddess and an Atma Weapon from Doom in Kefka's Tower. Is that right?

Close, but not quite. You'll get a Minerva and Safety Bit from them in Kefka's Tower. If you steal from the enemies at the top of Kefka's pillar in the final battle, though, you'll get them - Girl relinquishes the Ragnarok and Sleep Atma. Enjoy having them for that ONE battle you have left.

Question submitted by Master ZED
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There ya go, its from the Faq. Although I just noticed actually what battle it was. I guess that nullifies my point, because you can't trade it for Illumina.

Why don't you just name the topic "Why Atma Weapon Sucks Ass", it seems alot more relevant to your post than "Illumina vs. Atma Weapon".

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Blood & Fire

All good points.
But the reason I always preferred the Illumina is because of your fourth "*"
-Illumina is good now. You have to spend time getting Atma weapon to be effective.
-And because Atma's power is based on your current HP (correct?)

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Scimitar is the best Sword as it randomly slices!





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He drinks and smokes his cares away
His heart is in the lonely way
Living in the ruins
Of a castle built on sand...

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*Plans to copy his file before making his "sword or magacite" choice*

Muhahaha! I shall have them both!

I agree though. On the way up, Illumina is best because you can use it at a time when it's actually helpful. By the time Atma is dishing out 9999 HP damage, it's not that marginal an advantage.

By the way, does MPTurbo go into effect if you use the DragoonBoots with the Illumina equipped?

Illumina. Once you reach a high enough level, Illumina will consistantly dish out 9999. Atma could potentially do more, but it caps off. Plus, damage is reduced with low hp. And Illumina raises stats, like Mblock.

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Plus, damage is reduced with low hp.

Heh, I completely forgot about this.

Boo, Atma sucks!

i thought atma never misses too, am i wrong?

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I will be there...

I have never missed with the Atma Weapon.

But when you get right down to it, Ultima is infinately more usefull than the Illumina.

Illumina can be used by 1 person at a time, whereas you can teach Ultima to everyone.

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Blood & Fire

I personally wish that Illumina's fighting graphics lived up to it's name. The Pearl special effect, stat bonuses, and other perks make it an easy choice. However, the sword looks wimpy and un-impressive in actual combat.

Atma weapon has much better attack graphics than Illumina -- a glowing blue blade of destruction. I only wish it had the same power as Illumina...

-- amosender

Quote (The Raging Newbie @ 11th January 2004 23:44)

I have never missed with the Atma Weapon.

But when you get right down to it, Ultima is infinately more usefull than the Illumina.

Illumina can be used by 1 person at a time, whereas you can teach Ultima to everyone.

This is not a case of either/or. You can have both, Illumina and Ultima. The Paladin Shield teaches Ultima x1. The Paladin Shield can be equipped by everyone except Umaro, who cannot learn any spells anyway. I highly recommend the Paladin Shield even without its Ultima-teaching ability. It is definitely the most powerful defensive piece of equipment in the game.

PS Terra learns Ultima at L99 automatically, as well.

I like both swords. Why not equip a Genji Glove and wear both swords at the same time? Waah! Berserk!

Hmmm...If memory serves, there is nothing that prevents you from having both Atma Weapon and Illumina in your inventory at the same time. It was Ragnarok that couldn't go with Illumina, right?

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People say I'm a slow learner, but I type fast!

Yes, you can have both weapons.
The debate is about which is the best weapon in the game. If you have been following all the threads over the last 3 months, then you would see where several people, stated directly or indirectly that the Atma Weapon is/was the best weapon in the game. I got tired of this. So I stated some stats and scenarios to indicate otherwise.

Don't get me wrong. I think the Atma Weapon is a great weapon. But the Illumina is hands down the best weapon in the game. Even where the Atma Weapon shines (versus high defense opponents), the Illumina does comparable or well.

That being said, I don't think that Genji Glove+Atma Weapon+Illumina is the optimal setup. I think if you want to pair each of those weapons, you would be better served using other weapons as their companions.

Drainer+Atma Weapon works well. In that order, you heal up your HP, then attack with Atma Weapon, maximizing the power of the AW. As long as you avoid Undead critters, this is a great setup.

Illumina+Enhancer. The Illumina is providing stat boosts and defense. The Enhancer provides moderate BP and an additional stat boost. If you are like me and cast Spells with every char, especially Terra and Celes (2 of the 4 Illumina weilders), then the Magic Power boost is a big bonus. This is the setup I use throughout the WOR. This is nice because you don't have to switch weapons during combat when facing Undead.

Illumina+Soul Sabre. Illumina has the MPTurbo property, so over time your MP will fall. With the Soul Sabre combo, you will recover those MP each round. The Soul Sabre also has moderate BP. The only drawback is that once again one needs to avoid Undead.

Never Illumina+Striker or Illumina+Assassin, because you could do 19,998 dam then full heal it in the same round, if it is Undead.

Striker+Illumina or Assassin+Illumina. For non-Undead, you have a 25% chance to kill it outright. For the other 75% of the time, the Striker or Assassin does normal damage, then the Illumina hits.

Scimitar+Illumina. A solid high BP combo. Scimitar provides excellent BP, and a chance to dice (kill in 1 blow).

EDIT: Thanks for corrections, MasterZed.

This post has been edited by Detah on 30th March 2004 15:10

Scimitar can't heal the undead. You're thinking one of the X weapons (Assassin, Striker, etc.)

Also, Scimitar deals no damage if it goes for the dice, just like the aforementioned weapons.

This post has been edited by Master ZED on 13th January 2004 23:28

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The Unoriginal White Sheet

-Master ZED

Some people consider it a waste to wait for the Paladin Sheild when you can just beat the game long before getting your 255 battles completed. In that case getting the Ragnarok esper is a better choice, making Ultima better than Illumina. It's obvious that the Illumina is better than the Atma Weapon. I'm unsure as to who is denying this. However getting the Illumina isn't always the best choice, depending on how you want to play through the game.

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Concerning an earlier question about the Atma Weapon: it depends on BOTH HP and level, and (I think) also on how long the character currently using the Atma Weapon has had it equipped. Can somebody verify that?

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Quote (Glenn Magus Harvey @ 17th January 2004 23:16)

Concerning an earlier question about the Atma Weapon: it depends on BOTH HP and level, and (I think) also on how long the character currently using the Atma Weapon has had it equipped.  Can somebody verify that?

[QUOTE]

Here's the function (exhaustive answer is left as an exercise for the reader)

Atma Weapon Damage

C2/0E39: 08 PHP
C2/0E3A: DA PHX
C2/0E3B: 5A PHY
C2/0E3C: 9B TXY
C2/0E3D: B9 F5 3B LDA $3BF5,Y (HP / 256)
C2/0E40: 1A INC
C2/0E41: EB XBA
C2/0E42: B9 18 3B LDA $3B18,Y (Level)
C2/0E45: 20 81 47 JSR $4781 (Level * ((HP / 256) + 1))
C2/0E48: BE 1D 3C LDX $3C1D,Y (Max HP / 256)
C2/0E4B: E8 INX
C2/0E4C: 20 92 47 JSR $4792 ((Level * HP / 256) / ((Max HP / 256) + 1))
C2/0E4F: 85 E8 STA $E8
C2/0E51: C2 20 REP #$20
C2/0E53: A5 F0 LDA $F0
C2/0E55: 20 B7 47 JSR $47B7 ($E8 * damage)
C2/0E58: A9 05 00 LDA #$0005
C2/0E5B: 20 D1 0D JSR $0DD1 (Final Damage / 32)
C2/0E5E: 1A INC (+1)
C2/0E5F: 85 F0 STA $F0
C2/0E61: C9 F5 01 CMP #$01F5 (501)
C2/0E64: 90 0D BCC $0E73
C2/0E66: A2 5B LDX #$5B
C2/0E68: C9 E9 03 CMP #$03E9 (1001)
C2/0E6B: 90 01 BCC $0E6E
C2/0E6D: E8 INX
C2/0E6E: 86 B7 STX $B7
C2/0E70: 20 BB 35 JSR $35BB (Changes the length)
C2/0E73: 7A PLY
C2/0E74: FA PLX
C2/0E75: 28 PLP
C2/0E76: 60 RTS

This post has been edited by Ogopogo on 25th January 2004 06:29

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Quote (Glenn Magus Harvey @ 17th January 2004 23:16)

Concerning an earlier question about the Atma Weapon: it depends on BOTH HP and level, and (I think) also on how long the character currently using the Atma Weapon has had it equipped.  Can somebody verify that?

Atma Weapon and Illumina are 2 of my favorite topics. I did not notice the questions in your response until now.

Atma Weapon damage calculation has nothing to do with how long it has been equipped.

The complete calculation is:
AW Damage = 1 + {Normal Damage * LEVEL * ((HP/256)+1)/((MHP/256)+1)}/64
where Normal Damage = {BP + [(LEVEL*LEVEL*(BP+2*VIGOR))/256]*1.5} * {(255 - Defense) / 256)} + 1

* This function defines the upper bound of damage. There is also a small randomizing function connected to this, which lowers damage by 0.3% to 12.5%. For simplicity, I have not included that randomizing function in this calculation.

* Note also that the Defense piece of the normal damage calculation, {(255 - Defense) / 256)}, is ignored for the Atma Weapon since it Ignores Defense.

* HP and MaxHP are only involved in the calculation, in that, when HP < MaxHP, damage is reduced. We also learn from this equation that higher MaxHP does NOT lead to higher damage. The item description is misleading. The casual observer may mistakenly deduce that a higher maxHP leads to higher damage, but that is false. Actually, its the character's higher level which is really increasing the damage. And for the AW, higher level is exponential, not just multiplicative.

As soon as I get the Illumina, during this playthru, I will post the results for each weapon versus various monsters (with varying Defenses).

This post has been edited by Detah on 13th December 2004 19:47

I just plain like the Atma. Used with paladin shield And offering at the colloseum i dont ever lose. My Hp is never so low it does less than 5000 damage even with the offering.

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OK, now let ME compare for you why I prefer atma weapon over illumina.

1. Atma Weapon does not cost MP. You can use it as much as you want and you will never run out of MP. Illumina does.

2. With the offering relic, Illumina's MP Boost is no more. It doesn't cost MP to use Illumina with the offering, but you only take about 4000-7000 damage per hit with the Illumina and Offering at level 99 (depending on your vigor), but you always take 9999 damage per hit with the Atma Weapon at level 99, unless your health is low.

3. Atma weapon has the same exact hit chance as Illumina. It just appears not to. There is not a time I have ever missed with the Atma weapon, on any monster, ever (unless they were vanished in which you will never hit them with any weapon anyway)

4. Cactrot can be killed with one stroke of the atma weapon. They only have 3 hit points. The pearl spell from Illumina misses the cactrot anyway.

5. The chance of casting a Pearl from Illumina is not 100% You will not always take 19,998 damage.

6. The only way to take 79,992 damage to one enemy in one turn does not use Illumina, but it does use Atma Weapon. Valiant knife can also be used but it's a little harder to pull that one off. You can do more than that much damage in one turn to multiple enemies, however it is still not with the Illumina. You need the quick spell, a multi-attack spell and a gem box.

Now, if you decide not to use the offering (though I have no idea who wouldn't use it) I'd go for Illumina. Also, I definitely choose Illumina over the summon, because the summon does nothing at all for you in the long-run, unless you really want to be able to morph those enemies really easily or really don't want to uncurse your cursed shield for the best shield in the game.

Quote (LeviathanMist @ 9th December 2004 00:19)

OK, now let ME compare for you why I prefer atma weapon over illumina.

1. Atma Weapon does not cost MP. You can use it as much as you want and you will never run out of MP. Illumina does.

nuff said, the illumina isnt great because of that
i prefer ragnarok and atma over that little fact, the +7 to every stat istnt that great

Quote (bebi vegeta @ 9th December 2004 20:50)

nuff said, the illumina isnt great because of that
i prefer ragnarok and atma over that little fact, the +7 to every stat istnt that great

Maybe not, but the 50% MBlock is. 128% MBlock makes you virtually unhittable. Remember that Evade does not work in this game due to a programming glitch. MBlock affects your physical and magical evasion, and at 128% few attacks can hit you. Those would be piercing attacks such as ultima. The Illumina gives you a 50% head start to reach 128%. I'm not sure if it's possibile, but it's pretty hard to reach 128% with an Illumina. It often means sacrificing other vital stats. It's hard to find another good weapon with such high MBlock and attack power. And what's 15mp a shot when you've got upwards of 600? I like the Atma Weapon, and in some cases it's better/more fun to use than the Illumina, but in the end, the Illumina's 50% Block makes it the best sword in the same, IMO.

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Lou: There's a couple of guys fighting down at the aquarium, Chief.
Wiggum: Do they still sell those frozen bananas?
Lou: I think so.
Wiggum: Let's roll.

Quote (bebi vegeta @ 9th December 2004 19:50)

Quote (LeviathanMist @ 9th December 2004 00:19)

OK, now let ME compare for you why I prefer atma weapon over illumina.

1. Atma Weapon does not cost MP. You can use it as much as you want and you will never run out of MP. Illumina does.

nuff said, the illumina isnt great because of that
i prefer ragnarok and atma over that little fact, the +7 to every stat istnt that great

the illumina uses about 40 mp, big deal, even if that is a lot, that gives you more reason to use osmose, an awsome and often overlooked spell, did you know later in the game most monsters simply die if they run out of mp?

the damage increments are not the same point to point, if they were at the beginning of the game every plus one you got to vigor would add a hundred or so damage, even at level one, and later, it would still only add that, making the str points less worthwhile as you level, the opposite is infact true, the way its programmed points are worth more and more as your point totall gets higher, if you already have a lot of vigor, magic, speed, or stamina, plus 7 more adds a huge difference and can mean the difference between an ICE-1 that does 8,200 and an ICE-1 that does 9,999 and thats simply for one of the weakest spells in the game 7 points will add roughly 1.8k damage, think of what its doing to your more powerful spells/physical attacks.

[edit 2] it also seems you are deliberately leaving out or, your forgetting for your own sake, that the illumina also adds 50 to both your dodge stats and randomly casts one of the most powerful spells in the game.

This post has been edited by mooglemadness on 10th December 2004 05:46

OK then, it adds magic block. But what's the use of magic block if you're never gonna be hit by magic anyway? I know in my game I pretty much kill everything in one shot with the Atma Weapon. I'd say for a high level character, Atma weapon is the best. Illumina is the best all-around if you want to focus on defense more than killing things real quickly. But I am more into killing things as fast as possible without even getting scratched. I think it depends what kind of strategy you use. Personally, I would perform worse with an illumina than with an atma weapon.

because as ive said in the almost identical thread on this subject, you will get hurt with that setup as soon as you meet a retainer, i know its one monster, but its one monster you WILL meet.