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I have realized this is my favourite FF game.

I have played almost all expect I, II and XII.
None have caught me like this one.

I find the music overall to be Nobuos best.
Sure there are good pieces in all of his works, but overall this one I like the most by far.


The story is very deep, and the very open nature of almost all characters is perhaps the best part of it.
I find the game has maturity, seriousness with just a bit of hope in just right quantities, which most other games do not have.

Very little is revealed about most characters back stories, but they are all heavy.

Most of all I find the graphics to be awesome.
I cannot imagine how epic they could be in full modern 3d.

Of course this will not happen, or if it will it will be many years from now, when the massive costs inherent to making such games has decreased to reasonable levels.(I'm sure this will happen someday.)

I would much reather see a true remake rather than some half-assed re-release on a hand-held console that adds almost nothing, but only serves as a good source of income for Square.

Thats all I have to say now!

First of all, welcome to CoN. And secondly, I think we both agree about FFVI. I haven't played a game like it.

However, I am not certain that 3D graphics would increase the quality of the graphics. There is an art not just to FFVI, but to all of the classic 2D, retro titles.

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Praise Be To Helix!

Quote (BlitzSage @ 24th September 2010 21:12)

First of all, welcome to CoN. And secondly, I think we both agree about FFVI. I haven't played a game like it.

However, I am not certain that 3D graphics would increase the quality of the graphics. There is an art not just to FFVI, but to all of the classic 2D, retro titles.

well...better graphics would most certainly increase the quality of the graphics. thats what having better graphics means.

that being said, i get your point. i dont think ff vi would be a good choice to put into 3D. especially not after i played ff iv in 3D (better game imo, but that remake was a resounding meh). id like to see them remake a better ff before they get to vi, like ix or something.

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Aujourdhui a commence avec toi.

Quote (dont chocobos rule? @ 24th September 2010 22:22)

well...better graphics would most certainly increase the quality of the graphics. thats what having better graphics means.

Well, that would imply that 3D equals better graphics, that I do not agree with. In terms of artistic style, I find it hard to find graphics better than those that appear in the City of Narshe. I don't think it's just a given that more technology would make the graphics better.

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Praise Be To Helix!

i have seen what can be done with current technology and i gotta say, its gorgeous. ive never been one to complain about graphics, but playing games like ff vi after playing say...killzone 2 or uncharted 2, you cant help but think that it could be improved.

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Aujourdhui a commence avec toi.

I hardly think that modern technology would do so, in fact, it might even be negative for FFVI to have its graphics changed. I've seen those games, and their graphics are great. So were Link to the Past's, Super Metroid, DKC2. Those games all had gorgeous graphics as well, and I have seen and am not as impressed with the new DKC's graphics.

Even it it were attempted, it would not depend on technology, it would depend on style. It would depend on the designers to utilize the technology to create the world. This has been done well in every generation of game design.

And I am not sure if anyone else would claim that the SNES era graphics, nor FFVI's were bad. I've always though they were incredible myself.

This post has been edited by BlitzSage on 25th September 2010 05:47

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Praise Be To Helix!

To respond to the original topic, I agree that FFVI is a very unique game in that all aspects of it seem to be just about exactly as you'd want them to be.

As far as the side topic of graphics, I'm going to agree with Blitzsage here. My favorite time period in videogames is the window from the late SNES games until the end of the PSX. There's a lot of reasons behind this (not to say that I think all new games are bad: far from it), but one striking reason is artistic style. Games now adays can look extremely realistic, which is awesome. But technological limitations in gaming from the mid to late 90's forced developers to create their own unique style. FFVI's sprite graphics show a lot of detail. FFVII and FFVIII made use of predrawn backgrounds and 3D characters; Grandia did something of the reverse. This gave each game a unique feel and a cool artistic touch that I miss.

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Compare FFVII and FFVI. FFVII looks shabby and rushed (please don't kill me) FFVI looks awesome for a 2d game. FFVII was running on a better console than the SNES but it didn't look better ('cept in the FMVs) of course that could be attributed to the design team not being used to the platform yet. I don't think getting a remake on the DS would help this game because the other remakes on the DS sucked. FFIIIDS just didn't do it for me and, though I've hated FFIV from the beginning, on the DS remake I couldn't get past Baron Castle (mainly because I lent the game to a friend but that was because I couldn't stand the game.) I don't want this to happen to my 5th favorite FF.

Gonna have to agree with BlitzSage here, though not because I disagree with him nearly everywhere else.

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Can anyone explain to me how a remake, however badly pulled off, would detract from the original?

The only logical explanation I can see is that people are simply afraid of it not living up to their standards, and another one not being likely.

Quote (gvari @ 25th September 2010 14:42)

Can anyone explain to me how a remake, however  badly pulled off, would detract from the original?

The only logical explanation I can see is that people are simply afraid of it not living up to their standards, and another one not being likely.

I can answer that by using R8.50 Mango's post.

Quote (R8.50 Mango)

FFVI looks awesome for a 2d game.

That is my main issue with the entire idea, that 2D games are somehow inferior graphically. What I was getting at was exactly what Death Penalty said. Limited technology forced creativity, and it shows with those SNES graphics. A game like Earthworm Jim is rare today when back then it was commonplace, just out of pure necessity.

Now, I'm not saying that it isn't possible that they couldn't be done well. Look at a game like Bioshock, where the graphics are incredible, but I have seen poor graphics as well. I at least partially agree with Mango about FFVII's graphics. I'm just not sure if FFVI would feel the same, if done well or not. The graphics set a mood within the game, creating an operatic yet quirky atmosphere. That strange mix is what gives the game layers. I would argue that the graphics are one of the main reasons the game is so powerful.

Now, to answer your question, I don't think it would detract from the original, I just don't think it would add either. There's a chance, but it is slim, very slim.

For that matter, while on the subject of remakes, and to show that it's not just about FFVI or 2D games being remade, I think it's just as pointless to remake FFVII. In fact, I think the shabby, rushed graphics are kind of endearing. I'm not sure an HD rendering would improve on the original's charm.

This post has been edited by BlitzSage on 25th September 2010 19:52

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Praise Be To Helix!

Quote

Games now adays can look extremely realistic, which is awesome. But technological limitations in gaming from the mid to late 90's forced developers to create their own unique style. FFVI's sprite graphics show a lot of detail.

That's something I appreciated about sprite graphics--they could simultaneously show a lot of detail yet also leave a lot to the imagination. That's because 2D can use highly-detailed pixel art, and pixel art at those tiny resolutions doesn't so much show anything as it does suggest certain interpretations of the sprite in one's imagination.

So once the sprite art engages the player's imagination, it can make for a very immersive experience.

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Quote (Glenn Magus Harvey @ 25th September 2010 23:37)

Quote

Games now adays can look extremely realistic, which is awesome. But technological limitations in gaming from the mid to late 90's forced developers to create their own unique style. FFVI's sprite graphics show a lot of detail.

That's something I appreciated about sprite graphics--they could simultaneously show a lot of detail yet also leave a lot to the imagination. That's because 2D can use highly-detailed pixel art, and pixel art at those tiny resolutions doesn't so much show anything as it does suggest certain interpretations of the sprite in one's imagination.

So once the sprite art engages the player's imagination, it can make for a very immersive experience.

while i agree sprites are nice, theres just a level of story telling that cant be attained with them. hearing emotion through voice acting, seeing interaction through mo-capped actors, seeing every emotion on a characters face as the scene unfolds; its things like these that make a fantastic story, sure the sprites in ff vi were emotive and quirky, but theres a level of depth that they cant reach. when you look at a typical story heavy scene in ff vi and look at a similar scene in uncharted 2, you realize that theres only so much a sprite can do.

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Aujourdhui a commence avec toi.

Quote (dont chocobos rule? @ 26th September 2010 02:01)

Quote (Glenn Magus Harvey @ 25th September 2010 23:37)

Quote

Games now adays can look extremely realistic, which is awesome. But technological limitations in gaming from the mid to late 90's forced developers to create their own unique style. FFVI's sprite graphics show a lot of detail.

That's something I appreciated about sprite graphics--they could simultaneously show a lot of detail yet also leave a lot to the imagination. That's because 2D can use highly-detailed pixel art, and pixel art at those tiny resolutions doesn't so much show anything as it does suggest certain interpretations of the sprite in one's imagination.

So once the sprite art engages the player's imagination, it can make for a very immersive experience.

while i agree sprites are nice, theres just a level of story telling that cant be attained with them. hearing emotion through voice acting, seeing interaction through mo-capped actors, seeing every emotion on a characters face as the scene unfolds; its things like these that make a fantastic story, sure the sprites in ff vi were emotive and quirky, but theres a level of depth that they cant reach. when you look at a typical story heavy scene in ff vi and look at a similar scene in uncharted 2, you realize that theres only so much a sprite can do.

Well, that's an interesting argument, because the implication is that the quality of the art and craft of storytelling is directly linked to the amount of technology, therefore more technology equals better stories.

Though I believe that the craft of storytelling is linked to the technology, I am not so sure that quality is. Well, think about it, one of the greatest stories ever told was written 500 years ago, written by William Shakespeare. His high-tech was... pen and paper, and a couple actors and a stage.

And, about voice acting, well, another example is silent films. One of the greatest films ever made is Nosferatu, a black and white silent picture about Dracula, that happens to have some of the greatest imagery ever created. Now, as it pertains to games, I'm sure we have all cringed at horribly bad VO, or equally terrible writing.

Maybe Uncharted 2 has great scenes, but I would have to be convinced that character development in Uncharted is anywhere near FFVI.

It's not the size of the tech, it's how you use it.

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Praise Be To Helix!

Quote (BlitzSage @ 26th September 2010 01:58)

It's not the size of the tech, it's how you use it.

oh i wholeheartedly agree. the stuff in uncharted is amazing because they knew what they were doing. for every uncharted theres crap like too human, where the graphics are nice but the game makes you want to hurt things.

as for the side note on character development in uncharted, they did a series of behind the scenes stuff thats on youtube that i highly suggest you look into. they basically treat it like a theater production, and the stuff they get out of the writing, the actors, and the technology is truly amazing.

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Aujourdhui a commence avec toi.

Quote

while i agree sprites are nice, theres just a level of story telling that cant be attained with them. hearing emotion through voice acting, seeing interaction through mo-capped actors, seeing every emotion on a characters face as the scene unfolds; its things like these that make a fantastic story, sure the sprites in ff vi were emotive and quirky, but theres a level of depth that they cant reach. when you look at a typical story heavy scene in ff vi and look at a similar scene in uncharted 2, you realize that theres only so much a sprite can do.

Well, for starters, voice acting is separate from graphics, though for what it's worth, the lack of voice-acting in older games does give me the opportunity to imagine voices of my choice.

Motion-captured acting would be really nice, though (1) it's quite expensive to hire people act, and (2) there's the uncanny valley effect--the closer you get to real human actions, the more noticeable every fault you make is. That's partly why Disney cartoons and animé have continued to persist in popularity even in the age of 3D animation--exaggerating, abstracting, and simplifying things a bit may actually help the animation feel smoother.

The same applies to the face and facial expressions. It's much more expensive to hire actors, and to use computer modeling, than it is to produce a large number of 18x24 sprites--which themselves can be very expressive. Look at the sprite sheets for FFVI, a late 16-bit game, for example. The range of emotions in the character sprites--not necessarily explicitly expressed, but rather, suggested from low-resolution detail--is quite a wide range.

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Quote (gvari @ 25th September 2010 18:42)

Can anyone explain to me how a remake, however badly pulled off, would detract from the original?

I don't think it would necessarily detract from the original. I would love to see a remake. I just think that whoever was in charge of this remake would have to be careful in order to try to introduce new elements (to pick up new players) while maintaining the feel of the original (to satisfy all of us, so that we don't become grouchy).

As far as the effect of technology on the quality of the game, I think that some of the newer elements of gaming (improved graphics, voice acting) can make be used as tools to improve a game's story and overall quality. This stuff can add to a plot, but they can't turn a lackluster plot into a great one. They do not necessarily lead to this end, however. Furthermore, I think that, if the game's creators become all caught up in the bells and whistlese of a game, the more important parts of it (such as plot) can be overlooked.

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I think the main things they should concern themselves with for a remake are:
* the script (which was kinda updated in FF6a, but I haven't played that one and can't say how good it is)
** including such issues as strangely-translated monster attack names, but I think the GBA versions tended to already address these.
* the sound: they must be careful not to overdo this. Uematsu's original soundtrack is already epic, and with perhaps just a few extra touches that the SNES sound system couldn't provide, such as using real reverb where the original may have used mutliple instruments, the sound of the music should be otherwise kept as is.
* the gameplay: bugs such as the evade bug should be fixed. I think some of these were already addressed in the GBA version. Perhaps some redesigning may be in order to rebalance the characters where appropriate, as well as to make Gau's Rage list easier to use.

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Check the "What games are you playing at the moment?" thread for updates on what I've been playing.

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I'd love a full blown remake for FFVI. I'm not talking about a DS remake, like with FFIV. It's supposed to be 3D, but to me, it looks more like 2D+ if that makes sense. I just didn't think it was full 3D. Not to bash the game, since I liked it and all, I'm just saying.

If they remade VI, I'd prefer it be more 3D. I wouldn't mind if the characters and stuff were still "cartoony" as they were with FFIX. Just have that with pretty 3D graphics and put it on the PS3. None of this handheld crap.

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Quote (Fatal @ 26th September 2010 20:57)

I'd love a full blown remake for FFVI. I'm not talking about a DS remake, like with FFIV. It's supposed to be 3D, but to me, it looks more like 2D+ if that makes sense. I just didn't think it was full 3D. Not to bash the game, since I liked it and all, I'm just saying.

If they remade VI, I'd prefer it be more 3D. I wouldn't mind if the characters and stuff were still "cartoony" as they were with FFIX. Just have that with pretty 3D graphics and put it on the PS3. None of this handheld crap.

Well, some of the greatest games were 2D, like... well... this one.

And I always thought those cartoonish graphics were "pretty."

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Praise Be To Helix!

With the 3D style remakes Squaresoft is putting out, I see no good reason why we shouldn't be able to have a port of the original FF VI alongside a remake.
With Final Fantasy IV I can kinda understand because they just released another version for the GBA and that'd cut into sales but such wouldn't be the case here.

Really though, the ROM file must only be like what? A couple megabytes? That's virtually nothing with today's storage media. Additionally DS chips are so small that they could easily package hundreds in the same box: Make us a bonus content chip of content or something. The only thing I see costing any money and all they'd really need is an extra couple of hours for the code monkeys to figure out how to make it run on the new box.

Do this well and you'll appease the nostalgia crowd that makes a remake worth remaking with relative ease.

That being said if they 'improve the graphics of the game' I'd rather see them really improve the graphics of the game. Something along the lines of redrawing all the sprites like how they did Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix would be kinda neat.

On the other hand HD Remix wasn't quite idealitic either and it was really only a teaser for SF IV. With the sort of things Square did for FF III and IV it's not too presumptuous to assume they might make a full project out of it. So why not set our sights higher? Why not have full blown hand drawn animation?

Several scenes from the Princess Tutu "Hold Me" Video pop into mind as being perfectly fitting for such a thing. Right off the bat you have a perfect example of what a Terra transformation sequence might look like and Drosselmeyer, appearing at both the 1m30s and 2m22s minute marks is the spitting image of Kefka and looks awesome.. Heck, even the guy writing the letter kinda reminds me of Cyan with his long dark hair and blue shirt.

At any rate, such a thing could be soooooooo beautiful.. .And yet FF VI the Hand Drawn video game just ain't happenin'. Why is it that can't we have nice things? T_T

Oh well, there's always Disgaea 4 I suppose, which is at least step in the right direction...

This post has been edited by Tonepoet on 27th September 2010 02:14

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Role reversal at its finest.

I get you, Tonepoet, and I understand you all and what you're saying. But I just have a problem with this whole remake culture. The entire video game industry is built on sequels, remakes, and spinoffs. I understand that it may be cool. And I'd personally like to see it if they do make it, but I've already got the game, and it's fantastic, one of the best games ever made. It's like adding CG to Citizen Kane. It may be cool, but it's not worth it, and the game is already great without HD graphics. Think about it, why are we making a topic about a remake of it? Because we love the game, already.

And I just don't see how new graphics are going to change that.

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Praise Be To Helix!

Quote (Tonepoet)

With the 3D style remakes Squaresoft is putting out, I see no good reason why we shouldn't be able to have a port of the original FF VI alongside  a remake.
With Final Fantasy IV I can kinda understand because they just released another version for the GBA and that'd cut into sales but such wouldn't be the case here.

Really though, the ROM file must only be like what? A couple megabytes? That's virtually nothing with today's storage media. Additionally DS chips are so small that they could easily package hundreds in the same box: Make us a bonus content chip of content or something. The only thing I see costing any money and all they'd really need is an extra couple of hours for the code monkeys to figure out how to make it run on the new box.

The ROM is at most several megabytes, and an appropriate emulator would probably be even smaller than that.

And it's not like there's no precedent; Konami released Dracula X: Rondo of Blood in its original version as an unlockable after completing the remade version in the compilation pack Castlevania: the Dracula X Chronicles.

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The problem in new games is:

They concentrate too much on pretty graphics and cutscenes.

Good games aren't about graphics,its about story and character.

Kings field is a lot of fun to play and its on playstation 1.

It has no cutscenes and its very primitive 3d graphics.

Also,i'm not convinced that 3d is the best.

I just can't picture cyan in 3d,i mean i saw it somewhere but i feel that they may ruin the charm of the artwork.

In 2D the artwork itself told so much about the characters.

If they do remake ff6 for some 3d console,they should look into making cyan useful to counter the effects of how long it takes to use bushido.



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Well for my first post I may aswell come charging in here with a personal opinion.

One way FFVI could benefit from a remake would be the written language throughout the game, especially in the dialogue between characters. I mean, the shaky translation from the Japanese into English is a well known problem with an otherwise fantastic game is it not?

As for the remake as a whole I've gotta say I'm on the fence, and quite agree with the above comment about remake culture being a bit tired.

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The victor sacrificed the vanquished to the heavens

I really don't think this game should get a remake. Knowing Square, they would find new and exciting ways to screw things up.

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Quote (Darklord_Kefka @ 26th December 2010 18:21)

I really don't think this game should get a remake. Knowing Square, they would find new and exciting ways to screw things up.

Is FF6a worse than FF6 SNES, in your opinion?

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Quote (Glenn Magus Harvey @ 27th December 2010 17:28)

Quote (Darklord_Kefka @ 26th December 2010 18:21)

I really don't think this game should get a remake. Knowing Square, they would find new and exciting ways to screw things up.

Is FF6a worse than FF6 SNES, in your opinion?

It was for me, personally. Their changes to the script were welcomed, except that they took out many of the classic quirky lines. "Son of a Sandworm" doesn't have the same effect for me. But to what I'm guessing is your point, it wasn't too much of a change to ruin it. Even if they ever did remake it, and if they screwed it up, it wouldn't erase the original.

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Praise Be To Helix!

Well, as has been said on other threads around here, they could just make whatever changes they wanted and include the original as an alternate play mode or unlockable. It wouldn't be the first time a game company makes an updated re-release with the original fully playable.

This post has been edited by Glenn Magus Harvey on 30th December 2010 05:23

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Quote (Glenn Magus Harvey @ 27th December 2010 16:28)

Quote (Darklord_Kefka @ 26th December 2010 18:21)

I really don't think this game should get a remake. Knowing Square, they would find new and exciting ways to screw things up.

Is FF6a worse than FF6 SNES, in your opinion?

In my opinion, yes. Though it's mainly because of the sound quality and the lag.

Let me rephrase my comment with an analogy:
Square remaking FFVI would be like George Lucas remaking Star Wars IV; nothing good can come of it.

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Quote (Darklord_Kefka @ 2nd January 2011 07:22)

Quote (Glenn Magus Harvey @ 27th December 2010 16:28)

Quote (Darklord_Kefka @ 26th December 2010 18:21)

I really don't think this game should get a remake. Knowing Square, they would find new and exciting ways to screw things up.

Is FF6a worse than FF6 SNES, in your opinion?

In my opinion, yes. Though it's mainly because of the sound quality and the lag.

Let me rephrase my comment with an analogy:
Square remaking FFVI would be like George Lucas remaking Star Wars IV; nothing good can come of it.

Agreed. Actually I think it would be a bad thing because the resources weren't used on making something new. I felt Square were a 'safe' company in the PSX era with VII, IX, Chrono Cross, Xenogears and Vagrant Story (I didn't know them before then). Now the only two companies I trust to make every game good and distinctive in some way are Valve and Blizzard. I think a lot of people feel the same way now. Having said that I still think FFXII is the third best FF. A remake of VI is risky, I'm not sure I agree that it is destined to be bad. Based on recent precedent I'd say it'll likely be a waste of time.

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Scepticism, that dry rot of the intellect, had not left one entire idea in his mind.

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