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What/where exactly is the Murond Death City? Is it that city that sank into the sea? Is it some other underground city? Is it in Hell or some variant of the underworld? Any help?

I'm all for surrealism, and deus ex machina don't bother me, but man, I was really tripping out in the ending here.

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OSonic Rave
/ \Last Arcanum
[ ]Strike Raid
XRagnarok

Remember in the storyline how the ancient civilization, complete with magical weapons and airships, is buried deep beneath the current Ivalice? All of the battle starting with Murond Death City take place within those ruins, as I understand it. Note the map names - "Lost Sacred Precincts," "Graveyard of Airships."

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"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN?

Josh nailed it. When Ajora was executed, Murond sank into the earth and became a city of the dead, so to speak.

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Join the Army, see the world, meet interesting people - and kill them.

~Pacifist Badge, 1978

Well, the one guy (forgot his name) transports everyone to the another dimension, so part of Murond is the buried ruins of a civilization of robots and airships, then we actually go to hell where the Lucavi come from.

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Final Fantasy: Warriors of Light

Quote (Wedge Highwind @ 21st September 2006 09:13)

Well, the one guy (forgot his name) transports everyone to the another dimension, so part of Murond is the buried ruins of a civilization of robots and airships, then we actually go to hell where the Lucavi come from.

Is that actually indicated in the Zodiac Brave story? It's been roughly four years since I played that part of the game, but I don't remember it being specifically stated that it was another dimension any more than it was simply a portal deeper into the ruins, locked via magic.

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"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN?

Quote (Rangers51 @ 21st September 2006 13:32)

Quote (Wedge Highwind @ 21st September 2006 09:13)

Well, the one guy (forgot his name) transports everyone to the another dimension, so part of Murond is the buried ruins of a civilization of robots and airships, then we actually go to hell where the Lucavi come from.

Is that actually indicated in the Zodiac Brave story? It's been roughly four years since I played that part of the game, but I don't remember it being specifically stated that it was another dimension any more than it was simply a portal deeper into the ruins, locked via magic.

It's been a while since I played this and it'll be a while before I get back on this time through, so I don't remember if it's explicitly stated, but I assumed from the whole warping thing and the claim that no one will return that it was interdimensional travel. Unless you show me proof that it isn't the case, this will remain in the air. Any other takrs to settle this?

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Final Fantasy: Warriors of Light

Rofel uses the summoning/magic circle to transport them into the lower parts of Murond, but I don't know anything about interdimensional time travel. He [Rofel] could have simply stated they were not able to go back because they'd meet their doom or there WAS no way back (lack of summoning circle). Either way, that and going to Hell isn't explicitly stated anywhere in the game, and I even checked with Germonik and some rumors.

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It's gonna be a glorious day
I feel my luck can change

well, of course, there is no evidence whatsoever of any sort of interdimensional travel. the "claim that no one will return" is more like shit-talking than a true assessment of the situation, anyway. i don't have a copy of the english script, and the translation sucks anyway, but rofel's little bit about ramza not returning goes something like this:

「待っていたぞ、異端者ラムザよ。
「これより先には進ません！　この地下で永遠の眠りにつくがいい！
「この修道院がおまえの墓標なのだッ！

in english:

"i've been waiting for you, heretic ramza.
you won't get any further than this. sleep here in this cellar for all eternity!
this monastary will be your gravestone!"

it sure seems like he's suggesting rather heavily that they're just underground below the monastary. like josh and hamedo said, the capital of murond was drowned into the sea in a natural disaster upon the execution of ajora -- a clear and blatant reference to the Biblical splitting of the jewish temple upon the death of the Messiah. "murond death city," with its airship graveyards and its lost sacred precincts, is just the capital of the holy city murond (cf jerusalem) that existed in st ajora's time -- the homebase of the fara sect (cf jews) who opposed and executed him.

Nice dissertation, Goz.

Where can I find the language package that allows me to see the characters you are posting?

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Join the Army, see the world, meet interesting people - and kill them.

~Pacifist Badge, 1978

hmm, i always assumed that it took place in hell. mostly because i don't see why when people die - they come back to life underground. (balk/ajora) That just doesn't make sense to me. But all the other arguments fit perfectly, so really I think it could be either.

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[img]http://img83.exs.cx:81/img83/2/ramzaanddelita2rayni7wx.jpg[/img]

i'm not so sure the balk you fight in murond is dead. when you fight the story battle vs zombie zalbag, he's permanently undead in-battle. balk never has such a status, and anyway it's reasonable to believe that he was resurrected by a through-passing vormav. after all, rafa was able to ressurect her brother by using the zodiac stones, so why not vormav his fellow temple knight?

i believe balk mentioned something about being dead. but perhaps I'm wrong.

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[img]http://img83.exs.cx:81/img83/2/ramzaanddelita2rayni7wx.jpg[/img]

Quote (gozaru~ @ 8th October 2006 03:40)

i'm not so sure the balk you fight in murond is dead. when you fight the story battle vs zombie zalbag, he's permanently undead in-battle. balk never has such a status, and anyway it's reasonable to believe that he was resurrected by a through-passing vormav. after all, rafa was able to ressurect her brother by using the zodiac stones, so why not vormav his fellow temple knight?

Reasonable, because something has clearly happened to him in between - his menu portrait changes and not for the better.

Well, I'm pretty sure it changes. Hope it's not just my memory playing tricks.

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"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN?

Quote (KingDelita @ 8th October 2006 02:48)

i believe balk mentioned something about being dead. but perhaps I'm wrong.

well, indeed, that's not accurate; in fact, he mentions *just exactly* the opposite -- that he has managed to transcend death through the power of lucavi. here's the part of the the text in question, with my translations:

神殿騎士バルク
「…小僧、会えて嬉しいぜ。
「この前は不覚をとったが今度はそうはいかねぇ。この死都をおまえの墓場にしてやる！

engineer balk: i'm glad i was able to meet you here, boy. you got me last time, but not again. this death city will be your graveyard!

【バルクHP半減時]

[when you get balk to 1/2 hp, the following dialogue occurs:]

剣士ラムザ
「…おまえもルカヴィの手先に成り下がったんだな。
「そこまでして生きていたいのか…！　哀れだな！

squire ramza: ...you've also been tainted by the fingers of lucavi. you'd go that far out of wanting to be alive! how pitiful!

神殿騎士バルク
「いいもんだぜ、小僧。オレはようやく本物の人間になれたんだからな！

engineer balk: that's right, boy...to finally become a true human!

剣士ラムザ
「人間だと？　悪魔に魂を売った者のどこが人間だというんだ！

human? what's human about selling your soul to the devil?

神殿騎士バルク
「“死”を超越することでオレは人間という種のトップに立った。

in transcending death, i now stand at the top of the human species.

剣士ラムザ
「それで本物の“人間”だって？　笑わせるな、バルク！
「自分の力で勝ち取らない“自由”に何の意味がある？
「人間は“誇り”を失った瞬間から“自由”ではなくなるんだ！

that's what a true "human" is? don't laugh, balk! what's the meaning of "freedom" you don't get with your own power? the instant you sacrifice your "pride," you lose your "freedom!"

【バルク死亡時】

[at balks death:]

神殿騎士バルク
「そんな…オレは死ぬのか…“死”を超越したはずでは…？

impossible...i'm dying? what happened to transcending death...?

（バルクが絶命する)

(balk dies.)

so in other words, he's not "dead," but rather has been revived or something like that through the power of lucavi. now, of course, it is clear he has at least *been* dead (having died in the bed desert), and it's further clear that something fishy involving the lucavi stones is going on here such that he is back "alive." but as far as the balk you fight simply being his aftersoul, i can't find anything in the text to support that notion; to the contrary the text seems to repudiate it.