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At the end of the game you see Red XIII with his cubs but how can he have cubs if he was the last in his tribe?

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Bahamut King Of The Dragons...

I wondered that too at first, but Red is actually the last of his tribe in Cosmo Canyon. If you remember, Bugenhagen tells him something along the lines of finding more of his kind to have children and such. So, he isn't really the last one.

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"Shut up. You're making me sober..."
-Reno

*Ryoko*

Yea this game takes alot of thinking and assuming because it leaves alot of things unanswered. You also have to follow the story-line and flashbacks really closely to understand. But I think Reno'sgirl is right-Bugenhagen probably found more of his tribe.

For all we know he can reproduce with humans or other canine species.

I've been confronted with way too many disturbing hentais to ignore the possibility. :x

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

I always kinda figured that it was a plot hole, and that even though Red XIII was said to be the last of his tribe, they didn't really mean it.

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Veni, vidi, dormivi.

Also, Bugenhagen is supposedly Nanaki's grandfather, and he's something like human, but his legs are...well, not there, so maybe it's something else altogether.

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Squenix games completed:

FFIII
FFIV
FFVI
FFVII
FFIX
FFX
FF Tactics: Advance 2
Chrono Trigger
Dragon Quest 8
Dragon Quest 11
Super Mario RPG

The game hints (or outright tells you, I forgot) at some point that he's not Red XIII's real grandfather, I believe. Red XIII just calls him that.

Also, it's somewhat common to refer to old men as "gramps" or a variant thereof. So "grandfather" might just be an affectionate/familiar term he uses to refer to him.

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

Well, just because someone is the last of a *tribe* doesn't mean they are the last of their species. My guess is that Hojo had mosr in Midgar, or there were more elsewere..or something.

Many regard it as a plot hole, but really it...is. But whatever, because hypothetically Red would have been the only one to have lived that long, so at to see Midgar like that.

Brain...hurts.

Red XIII was probably the last of the known members of his tribe. He could of easily gone looking for others like him. I mean, he did have 500 years...

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I will never be a memory

Yeah, sometimes its hard to imagine it though. I mean, in the game you go everywhere in the world so it's like 'alright, what else could possibly be out there?' That's kind of the downfall I think.

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"Shut up. You're making me sober..."
-Reno

*Ryoko*

Quote

At the end of the game you see Red XIII with his cubs but how can he have cubs if he was the last in his tribe?

I wondered that too at first, but Red is actually the last of his tribe in Cosmo Canyon.

hojo said in midgar that red and aeris were the last of their species

Maybe he can reproduce like Godzilla or something. I think he is the last of his tribe because Hojo seems to know a lot about the planet (even if it is stolen from Gast) and therefore his word is final. I think it should be put in the ever-growing list of plot holes...

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Scepticism, that dry rot of the intellect, had not left one entire idea in his mind.

Me on the Starcraft.

Quote (sweetdude @ 16th June 2006 09:35)

Maybe he can reproduce like Godzilla or something. I think he is the last of his tribe because Hojo seems to know a lot about the planet (even if it is stolen from Gast) and therefore his word is final. I think it should be put in the ever-growing list of plot holes...

I don't think Red XIII's species reproducees asexually. Remember, he had both a mother and a father. My guess is that both Hojo and Cosmo Canyon didn't know of a colony of lionhounds (or whatever the hell he is) elsewhere, and Red XIII managed to discover it and hook up sometime after the events in the game play out.

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this is a blog mostly about comics and videogames
END SPOILER

I think there's no reason to it and it's just a muck up in the story

This post has been edited by BahamutZ on 16th June 2006 15:32

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Bahamut King Of The Dragons...

Quote (BahamutZ @ 16th June 2006 10:32)

I think there's no reason to it and it's just a muck up in the story

I also agree to this, but none the less the game was one of Square's best.

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Money is no good unspent.
There's a fine line between bravery and stupidity.

i think that he was the last of his tribe in cosmo canyon.

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Cloud
"let's Mosey"

I don't think he has to have other members of his species to reproduce. Hojo tried to breed him with Aeris, remember? And Hojo was no idiot. So, if he can breed with humans (or rather, half-humans), why not with one of the many variations of wolves in the game? Or a Cuahl? Just saying, they look enough like Nanaki that his cubs would likely look more like him than their mother. Though, I agree with Zeil and Bahamut in that it was likely just an oversight in the story. Wouldn't be the first time. But really, the cubs are so cute, can't you forgive that mistake? I mean, they could've been more logical, and shown 500 years into the future, with no Nanaki. Or, rather, Nanaki dying a sad death because he's the last of his kind. Reality really isn't much fun.

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"If everything's a dream, don't wake me..."

Rhea you do make a good point with the Hojo breeding thing so thats possible to.

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Cloud
"let's Mosey"

Yeah, I don't remember who says it (probably Bugenhagen), but he hints at how it's possible that they can breed with others than their own species. (Whatever species they are, at any rate.)

Or, it could be an oversight. Or, it could just be one of those things they don't explain to add on to the games overwhelming (and sometimes annoying) mystery. Actually..*looks at Ultimania Guide later*

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OSonic Rave
/ \Last Arcanum
[ ]Strike Raid
XRagnarok

Maybe Red XIII is actually a women who were pregnant all along. Therefore she would be the last in her tribe but at the end of the game she gives birth to 2 new "tribe members". Think about it have any of you ever seen Red XIII's genitals:p?

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White Ninja

Don't even go there. Red is male, end of story.
I think it's one of those cliched, "Oh, my species is extinct, when I die, there will be no one like me ever again..." Only to find this is not the case at all, and there's a hot female out there they find, woohoo!

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'Let that be a lesson to all oppressive vegetable sellers.'

he asexually reproduces

Quote (EX-SOLDIER @ 23rd June 2006 23:51)

he asexually reproduces

I think we've already ruled that out:
a.) As mentioned before, he had a mother and a father.
b.) When Bugen's on his death...sofa, he says something like, "Who knows? Maybe, you'll even find your life's mate someday?" For this to make any sense at all, it would mean Nanaki must be capable of mating. Generally, creatures that can reproduce asexually cannot reproduce sexually, and vice versa. So from this, we can only infer that his species does not reproduce asexually. If they could, why wouldn't they have done so long ago? Having only 2, at most, guardians of Cosmo Canyon alive(and able to fight) at a time doesn't seem like a smart idea, if they have an alternative to it.

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"If everything's a dream, don't wake me..."

Quote (yelanates @ 13th June 2006 22:25)

Well,  just because someone is the last of a *tribe* doesn't mean they are the last of their species.

I think that's pretty much what it comes down to. Both Hojo and Bugenhagen indicate that there are other members of his species out there.

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Cloud: "What do you think you're doin'?" / Hojo:"Lending a helping hand to an endangered species... Both of them are on the brink of extinction... If I don't help, all these animals will disappear."(Final Fantasy VII)

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Bugenhagen: "Look always to the eternal flow of time which is far greater than the span of a human life. It will teach you more than staying here in the valley... What you see will eventually become a part of life's dream. For my children...... And for your children...... So please, Nanaki... Go with Cloud... And with your eyes... your ears..." / Red XIII: "............" / Bugenhagen: "Ho Ho...... Hooo. Now, now. Don't look like that. I'm all right. It's a wide world and you must go out and see it... You may even find your life's mate. You never know."(Final Fantasy VII)

[As cited on Red XIII's Wikipedia entry. Bold & italics mine.]

The only quote that seems to contradict it is this one:

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Red XIII: Here is where I was... I mean, ...this is my hometown. My tribe were
protectors of those who appreciate this beautiful canyon and the Planet. My
brave mother fought and died here, but my cowardly father left her...... I am
the last of my race.

which I found on a script at this site: http://www.neoseeker.com/resourcelink.html...55848&rid=51768

The "last of my race" quote might be a mistranslation. In Japanese, it might more accurately translate to "last of my tribe," although I don't read Japanese so I couldn't tell you. Either way, I don't think it's much of a plot hole. I spent a few minutes checking for those quotes, and I'm not sure if there are many others referring to Red XIII being the last of his tribe. But the two from Wikipedia lead me to believe that him having children at the end wasn't an oversight.

I still agree with Red XIII being the last of his tribe in Cosmo Canyon but, there are other good ideals too like Red XIII being able to reproduce with another species (but, this brings up a question for me if he can breed with another species how come that look like him?) or its just an oversight.

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Cloud
"let's Mosey"

Quote (fatman @ 23rd June 2006 11:28)

I think it's one of those cliched, "Oh, my species is extinct, when I die, there will be no one like me ever again..." Only to find this is not the case at all, and there's a hot female out there they find, woohoo!

That seems like the most accurate explaintion. That happened on Ice Age 2. Why not on FF7

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The voices tell me to stab you.....I mean give you candy filled with razor blades.......thats right candy.

Quote (MetroidMorphBall @ 23rd June 2006 20:11)

Quote

Cloud: "What do you think you're doin'?" / Hojo:"Lending a helping hand to an endangered species... Both of them are on the brink of extinction... If I don't help, all these animals will disappear."(Final Fantasy VII)

Quote

Bugenhagen: "Look always to the eternal flow of time which is far greater than the span of a human life. It will teach you more than staying here in the valley... What you see will eventually become a part of life's dream. For my children...... And for your children...... So please, Nanaki... Go with Cloud... And with your eyes... your ears..." / Red XIII: "............" / Bugenhagen: "Ho Ho...... Hooo. Now, now. Don't look like that. I'm all right. It's a wide world and you must go out and see it... You may even find your life's mate. You never know."(Final Fantasy VII)

A species with only a single specimen left is "on the brink of extinction" just as much as one with 50 male specimens left.

Bugenhagen's words are just a supposition. He doesn't know wether there are others of Red XIII's race out there or not. If he did, he would probably point him off in the right direction instead of leaving him with enigmatic parting words. For all we know, he's just being hopeful.

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

Quote (Silverlance @ 24th June 2006 21:30)

A species with only a single specimen left is "on the brink of extinction" just as much as one with 50 male specimens left.

Ah, touche.

Quote

Bugenhagen's words are just a supposition. He doesn't know wether there are others of Red XIII's race out there or not. If he did, he would probably point him off in the right direction instead of leaving him with enigmatic parting words. For all we know, he's just being hopeful.

You're right, it could just as easily go either way. But it does hint that it's possible, and the end credits show the designers decided to go in that direction.

Who said at the end of the game it was Red XII? I think Red did have a mate but it's his eldest son with his cubs looking at where his father once battled and where his father met the hero of Terra/Earth. I came down to this possibility since 500 years has passed and thats quite a bit,.....but in Fire Tail lion years its Actually decent.

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Kel'Thuzad: She is persistent. Reminds me of you, death knight.

Arthas:Shut up you damned ghost.

-Warcraft III Kel'thuzad comparing Arthas and Sylvanas Windrunner.

Yes, but the fact that it's exactly 500 years into the future has to have some importance. If you talk to Red at some point on the Highwind (don't remember exactly when), he says that he expects to live 500 years. And while, that would put him 48? years over his species' average life span, I still think it was for that purpose. I can think of no other reason to have it that far into the future. All the other characters (except maybe Vincent, if he continued not aging) are long dead, which is a tad bit depressing. And, all the spinoffs and whatnot take place only a few years after the events in the game, so it wouldn't tie into that. If it isn't Red XIII in the ending, it has no meaning to those watching it. Plus, they are looking out at the ruins of Midgar. Red's offspring would have no ties to the place.
Besides, to have a son, he'd have to have found a mate. That's what BahamutZ was wondering about. I don't think we'll have an answer until we kidnap...erm, get an interview with one of the creators and they tell us exactly what was in their mind when they made that ending sequence.

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"If everything's a dream, don't wake me..."