CoN 25th Anniversary: 1997-2022
Cloud An Experiment Or A Normal Human?
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Posted: 7th July 2006 02:10
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  Posts: 9 Joined: 3/7/2006 
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Well I Dont Get It How Hes An Failed Experiment And Has A Mother..
O.o Someone Please Explain .. Or Forever Will I Think Hes A "Puppet" Throughout The Game.. Man Thats A Good Poem.. This post has been edited by |- Emo Tional -| on 7th July 2006 02:10 -------------------- |
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Post #122861
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Posted: 7th July 2006 02:19
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 Posts: 204 Joined: 20/5/2006 Awards:  
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Sephiroth had Jenova's cells injected into him in the womb. Cloud was injected with Jenova cells like some other members of Soldier after he joined the group. Jenova isn't Cloud's mother, that's a lie of Sephiroth. For that matter, Jenova isn't Sephiroth's mother, Lucrecia is.
More experienced posters, feel free to correct me if i'm wrong. -------------------- Status: FF6 -- Finished! Yeah! FF7 -- Finished (easily, and without KOtR) FF8 -- End of Disc 3 Secret of Evermore--Leveling up for Salabog "Go sit over there. Put your seatbelt on."--Squall |
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Post #122863
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Posted: 7th July 2006 02:34
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Posts: 9 Joined: 3/7/2006
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But How does he have a mother?
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Post #122865
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Posted: 7th July 2006 02:55
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  Posts: 75 Joined: 29/6/2006 Awards:
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Possible spoilers: highlight to view Cloud was in fact a real person but he accepted the jenova cell's differently. he never was a member of soldier but he fooled himself to think he was Zack. -------------------- In order to be politically correct, I am no longer a "White Person," I am a Caucasian-American. |
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Post #122866
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Posted: 7th July 2006 03:43
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 Posts: 94 Joined: 12/3/2006 Awards:
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Possible spoilers: highlight to view The real cloud was someone in tifas childhood, the cloud we know WAS created by Hojo in the lab made piece by piece;when Tifa touched the experiment her memories were mixed with his so he thought he was the cloud from her childhood. Which he isnt and the real cloud just disappeared. And I'm replaying FF7 atm so I just seen this like a few days ago so I know. -------------------- The voices tell me to stab you.....I mean give you candy filled with razor blades.......thats right candy. |
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Post #122871
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Posted: 7th July 2006 06:02
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  Posts: 2,154 Joined: 9/10/2005 Awards: 
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Possible spoilers: highlight to view The Cloud in the game is the same Cloud throughout the entire game. He just accepted the Jenova cells funkily, and took on Zack's persona. Tifa also fooled herself into believing the 'memories' Cloud created for himself, but deep down she really knew the truth. In other words, no, Cloud was not created from an experiment, but he was altered by it. You could've put spoiler in the title, though. :/ -------------------- |
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Post #122887
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Posted: 7th July 2006 09:13
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Quote (Zeromus_X @ 7th July 2006 06:02) You could've put spoiler in the title, though. :/ Would've saved so much time... Possible spoilers: highlight to view I'm with Sephiroth_the_dark on this one. The Cloud we play as is just Hojo's creation. The original Cloud must've died (or certainly been horribly wounded). Hojo created a vessel (a body basically) and filled it with the dead Cloud's memories. To effectivly create life he used Jenova Cells to enhance his creation. Cloud is actually very vulnerable to manipulation as he has been injected with Jenova Cells. This is where the "puppet" idea comes from. In the game, when Cloud is about to deter Sephiroth's grand scheme; Sephiroth controls him and forces him to do his bidding (such as the Black Materia). The rest of the time, unwittingly, Cloud IS following Sephiroth's plan by chasing him across the planet. -------------------- Scepticism, that dry rot of the intellect, had not left one entire idea in his mind. Me on the Starcraft. |
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Post #122896
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Posted: 7th July 2006 14:43
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  Posts: 407 Joined: 25/6/2006 Awards:
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Very strange theory by sweetdude.
http://www.kuponut.com/games/ff7/pregame_timeline.html This is so accurate to the story. There is a bit in here that will explain everything you need. This post has been edited by Silver 09 on 7th July 2006 14:45 |
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Post #122907
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Posted: 7th July 2006 14:57
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Posts: 2,154 Joined: 9/10/2005 Awards:
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That's a very good timeline. Goodness knows how confusing the story is until you piece it all together...
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Post #122909
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Posted: 7th July 2006 15:32
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sweetdude always has the weirdest ideas
 Possible spoilers: highlight to view Cloud had a mother. He grew up in Nibelheim. He was never Tifa's friend, just an outcast that wanted to be accepted by Tifa and her group of the "popular" kids. During the Nibelheim incident, Cloud and Zack were both taken by Hojo and kept in the basement of the ShinRa mansion. Nibelheim was replaced by a bunch of actors to cover up the entire incident. While they were in the basement they were injected with Jenova cells. So bla bla, they escape and Zack is killed trying to save Cloud. Cloud picks up the Buster Sword and assimilates Zack's memories. Obviously not being nearly as strong as Zack, I think Cloud had a bit of Mako poisoning while riding in the truck as well as side effects from the Jenova. I think Tifa didn't remember as well because of the fall she took in the mountains which put her into a coma somewhat. There are subtle hints throughout the game that she kind of remembers things being different, and in Gongaga when she remembers Zack. -------------------- "Shut up. You're making me sober..." -Reno *Ryoko* |
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Post #122918
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Posted: 7th July 2006 22:14
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  Posts: 544 Joined: 5/7/2005 Awards:   
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Quote (Sephiroth_The_Dark @ 6th July 2006 23:43) Possible spoilers: highlight to view The real cloud was someone in tifas childhood, the cloud we know WAS created by Hojo in the lab made piece by piece;when Tifa touched the experiment her memories were mixed with his so he thought he was the cloud from her childhood. Which he isnt and the real cloud just disappeared. And I'm replaying FF7 atm so I just seen this like a few days ago so I know. That's all well and good if you believe what Sephiroth and Hojo say. I tend to disbelieve that, however. I have to agree with Renosgirl in this, in the end of the second disk (I think it was there) they explain that Possible spoilers: highlight to view Sephiroth told Cloud those lies to make his mind even weaker so controlling him would be easier. Needless to say, for a little while, it worked. -------------------- Squenix games completed: FFIII FFIV FFVI FFVII FFIX FFX FF Tactics: Advance 2 Chrono Trigger Dragon Quest 8 Dragon Quest 11 Super Mario RPG |
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Post #122975
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Posted: 7th July 2006 22:58
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 Posts: 391 Joined: 8/7/2005 Awards:
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Quote (sweetdude @ 7th July 2006 04:13) Quote (Zeromus_X @ 7th July 2006 06:02) You could've put spoiler in the title, though. :/ Would've saved so much time... Possible spoilers: highlight to view I'm with Sephiroth_the_dark on this one. The Cloud we play as is just Hojo's creation. The original Cloud must've died (or certainly been horribly wounded). Hojo created a vessel (a body basically) and filled it with the dead Cloud's memories. To effectivly create life he used Jenova Cells to enhance his creation. Cloud is actually very vulnerable to manipulation as he has been injected with Jenova Cells. This is where the "puppet" idea comes from. In the game, when Cloud is about to deter Sephiroth's grand scheme; Sephiroth controls him and forces him to do his bidding (such as the Black Materia). The rest of the time, unwittingly, Cloud IS following Sephiroth's plan by chasing him across the planet. i like that theory, but i guesss we will never now the truth, unless we asked the man who came up with the storieline, you now. Even though its pritty intelligiant, i couldnt look at cloud as just a "creation" of Hojo. that hojo was the cause of all evil in the game, has anyone ever realized that! -------------------- You Can't Escape... Nowhere to run... Nowhere to hide... |
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Post #122984
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Posted: 8th July 2006 00:31
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  Posts: 278 Joined: 25/8/2004 Awards:
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Quote (Zeromus_X @ 7th July 2006 01:02) Possible spoilers: highlight to view The Cloud in the game is the same Cloud throughout the entire game. He just accepted the Jenova cells funkily, and took on Zack's persona. Tifa also fooled herself into believing the 'memories' Cloud created for himself, but deep down she really knew the truth. In other words, no, Cloud was not created from an experiment, but he was altered by it. You could've put spoiler in the title, though. :/ thats the most acuarate descrption possible, and when playing through the game it more or less lets you know that this is true, through the "secret" fmv and flashback in the mako stream |
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Post #122992
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Posted: 8th July 2006 00:41
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  Posts: 2,350 Joined: 19/9/2004 Awards:
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Quote (mcclanahan @ 7th July 2006 19:31) Quote (Zeromus_X @ 7th July 2006 01:02) thats the most acuarate descrption possible, and when playing through the game it more or less lets you know that this is true, through the "secret" fmv and flashback in the mako stream Possible spoilers: highlight to view The Cloud in the game is the same Cloud throughout the entire game. He just accepted the Jenova cells funkily, and took on Zack's persona. Tifa also fooled herself into believing the 'memories' Cloud created for himself, but deep down she really knew the truth. In other words, no, Cloud was not created from an experiment, but he was altered by it. Yeah, that's pretty much universally accepted as being the way the storyline pans out (except that Possible spoilers: highlight to view Cloud created his past himself because he was too ashamed not to have been able to make SOLDIER. He convinced himself he was walking in Zack's footsteps when, in fact, he was just a regular guard. Further proof of this lies in the fact that Possible spoilers: highlight to view . Were he an actual clone built by Hojo, it'd be a biological thing, and not a psychological thing, causing him to do these things. But the truth is, Cloud is just some messed up insecure nobody until Mideel. Cloud no longer has any ties to Sephiroth after he sorts out his past with Tifa and no longer allows himself to be controlled by him. Seeing as he's no longer an insecure, shamed kid carrying around a secret he's been letting himself be tortured by for so long. -------------------- "Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession and the likelyhood of him sharing." |
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Post #122994
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Posted: 8th July 2006 02:44
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 Posts: 103 Joined: 29/5/2006 Awards:
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Hojo called him a failed experiment because, in Hojo's eyes, his existence only mattered because of what he did to him.
Possible spoilers: highlight to view Before the Nibelheim incident, Cloud was a normal human, with a normal childhood and a normal mother. When Sephiroth went nuts and slaughtered everyone, the few survivors were rounded up by Hojo, and experiments were performed on them -- the same experiments performed on members of SOLDIER. However, to react like a normal member of SOLDIER, one has to have strong mental and physical constitution. Cloud didn't, which is why he wasn't accepted into SOLDIER and why he had such an extreme reaction to the experiments. He was actually the best of the "Sephiroth clones," in that, while he originally was in a barely-concious state, he recovered from it eventually, unlike the men in black capes which seem on the verge of death each time to meet them. However, he was not aware of Sephiroth calling him, or of Jenova, or of the Reunion, which is the real purpose of the 'creation' of the Sephiroth clones; to come together in order to reform Jenova through the cells within their blood. So, Hojo viewed him as a failed experiment. So, I basically just restated everything everyone else has said...I hope that clears things up. -------------------- "If everything's a dream, don't wake me..." |
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Post #123003
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Posted: 8th July 2006 11:00
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Everyone is forgetting that Cloud turns out not to be a failure.
Possible spoilers: highlight to view Remember in the Whirlwind Maze when Hojo shows pride in one of his creations reaching Sephiroth, then realises that he was the tatoo-less "failure". The Jenova Theory is proved by Cloud's presense there. Cloud is a creation; there's no doubt about that even if it does scramble with your perception of him. Cloud begins to regain his strength after Aeris' death - culminating with his visit to the lifestream. Until then he is purely unknowingly doing Sephiroth's bidding. -------------------- Scepticism, that dry rot of the intellect, had not left one entire idea in his mind. Me on the Starcraft. |
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Post #123028
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Posted: 8th July 2006 14:32
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Posts: 150 Joined: 9/5/2006 Awards:
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Well...Hojo perceived him as a failure while they were in the Northern Crater. However, if you remember properly, when you go to fight Jenova Hojo he ironically says that Cloud was actually the only experiment that didn't fail. So, depends how you look at it.
And I took the whole Cloud was a creation thing as he was altered from his original form, not necessarily built. -------------------- "Shut up. You're making me sober..." -Reno *Ryoko* |
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Post #123045
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Posted: 8th July 2006 15:41
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Posts: 2,154 Joined: 9/10/2005 Awards:
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Oh, well yeah that too. Thank you Silverlance.
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Post #123057
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Posted: 13th August 2006 23:12
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Posts: 17 Joined: 6/8/2006 Awards:
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Oh no the real Cloud is not dead his memories were only mixed with Zack's he was just messed up so HE'S NOT A CLONE!
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Post #128099
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Posted: 14th August 2006 14:03
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 Posts: 127 Joined: 10/8/2006 Awards:
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Wow Silver*** where did you find that site? That clears things up!
As for my opinion (and what I think is the truth) Possible spoilers: highlight to view Cloud is Cloud and not a clone, he is just infected with Mako and Jenova cells, and as these 5 years the REAL SEPHIROTH from northern cave tries to manipulate all those who have been injected with Jenova cells after the Nibelheim accident, he manages to manipulate Cloud as well. As previously stated by Rhea, Cloud's reaction to Jenova cells was extreme, and because he was not strong mentally and psycologically he was not accepted to SOLDIER, thats why Hojo was calling him a failure. The REAL question that occurs after these opinions is... Sephiroth or Jenova- Who controls who... This post has been edited by FireStorm on 14th August 2006 23:23 -------------------- Ask me ANY FFV question! PM me! Sorry if I dissapoint you but I have nothing to do with hacking... |
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Post #128133
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Posted: 14th August 2006 15:18
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 Posts: 2,336 Joined: 1/3/2004 Awards:   
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Personal opinion, but Cloud was a real individual.
Not going to get drawn into the arguments on either side. Neither camp can produce solid evidence for their view, so let the court of personal, not public, opinion be the judge. -------------------- Join the Army, see the world, meet interesting people - and kill them. ~Pacifist Badge, 1978 |
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Post #128143
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Posted: 14th August 2006 19:44
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  Posts: 271 Joined: 25/6/2004 Awards:
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Final Fantasy Compendium gives the following timeline of Cloud's past, which makes a great deal of sense:
15-7 Years Ago Possible spoilers: highlight to view Cloud Strife and Tifa Lockheart grow up next to each other in the city of Nibelheim; they are not particular friends, however much Cloud would like it to be otherwise. After the death of Tifa's mother, she determinedly takes a trip into the Nibel Mountains. Cloud follows her, but a bridge they both stand on breaks, and Cloud is blamed for the injuries suffered by Tifa. They later have a conversation by a well where Cloud tells Tifa of his desire to go to Midgar and join SOLDIER, and promises to come back for Tifa if he should make it big in Midgar. 5 Years Ago Possible spoilers: highlight to view Cloud is assigned to guard Sephiroth on a journey back to Nibelheim to investigate the Nibel Mako Reactor upon hearing of monster attacks. Sephiroth is accompanied by Zack, a member of SOLDIER, 1st class. Zack apparently has gone out with Aeris some time in the past. Sephiroth and Cloud take Tifa as a guide to the reactor (Cloud not revealing his true identity). Sephiroth discovers the monsters in the reactor and begins to doubt his origins. He discovers a secret library in Nibelheim where he finds out the truth about himself. Overwhelmed by the new information, he goes on a rampage and burns Nibelheim to the ground. Zack and Cloud follow him to the Nibel Reactor to find that he intends on joining his mother, Jenova, in a quest to take over the world. Tifa takes Sephiroth's Masamune sword (which he has carelessly left) and attempts to stab him for the death of her father. Sephiroth gets the better of her and slashes her, leaving her on the ground. He enters the inner chamber and takes Jenova's head from its stasis container. Zack arrives to attack Sephiroth and is also stabbed and lies wounded. Cloud, overcome by emotion, puts Tifa to one side, takes Zack's sword, and attacks Sephiroth. Cloud is deeply injured by Sephiroth's sword, but in a haze of emotion, somehow manages to grasp the sword by the blade and throw Sephiroth into the Lifestream beneath him. Zack and Cloud, both barely alive (though Zack, having a stronger constitution, is healthier) are captured by Hojo of Shinra, taken to the basement of the Shinra Mansion, and used as part of his new experiment, to attempt to create Sephiroth clones (most of the victims are from the ruins of Nibelheim). All previous clones are failures, resulting in a vegetable-like state. Cloud does not take to the treatment, lacking the willpower. Hojo labels him a failure, but keeps him around. When a guard comes to give Zack his food, he knocks out the guard, rescues Cloud (who can barely move) and hitches a truck to Midgar. After debating with himself, he decides that he and Cloud will become mercenaries (the words echo in Cloud's head). However, before they can reach Midgar, they are chased down by Shinra soldiers. Zack is shot dead, but they leave Cloud, the failure. Cloud manages to crawl to Zack's body and take his sword. Sephiroth finds that he can control his attempted "clones" with his mind, although he cannot make them do anything of any value due to their state. However, he finds that he can control Cloud more subtly but more effectively due to his "failure" status. Cloud's mind, awash in pain and fear, constructs its own version of the facts, in which Cloud takes Zack's position in the occurrences, and becomes a member of SOLDIER, 1st class. He also glosses over his friendship with Tifa as if they were best friends. He somehow manages to make his way to the Midgar train station. Tifa finds him there, and decides to watch over him for a while. This post has been edited by Magicite on 14th August 2006 19:45 -------------------- The world before the fall... Delightful is the light of dawn... Noble is the heart of man... |
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Post #128171
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Posted: 14th August 2006 23:22
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Posts: 127 Joined: 10/8/2006 Awards:
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Quote (Silver 09 @ 7th July 2006 14:43) Very strange theory by sweetdude. http://www.kuponut.com/games/ff7/pregame_timeline.html This is so accurate to the story. There is a bit in here that will explain everything you need. Why say the same things everytime? It's all in here. http://www.kuponut.com/games/ff7/pregame_timeline.html -------------------- Ask me ANY FFV question! PM me! Sorry if I dissapoint you but I have nothing to do with hacking... |
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Post #128181
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Posted: 14th August 2006 23:34
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Posts: 2,154 Joined: 9/10/2005 Awards:
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And of course (if it helps)...
http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/file/fi...mania_omega.txt -------------------- |
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Post #128183
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Posted: 15th August 2006 00:08
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Posts: 127 Joined: 10/8/2006 Awards:
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Zeromus_X don't forget that he who translated Ultimania and uploaded it to the internet, translated it to SUPPORT HIS OWN IDEAS and not what really is stated in Ultimania.
This post has been edited by FireStorm on 15th August 2006 12:54 -------------------- Ask me ANY FFV question! PM me! Sorry if I dissapoint you but I have nothing to do with hacking... |
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Post #128193
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Posted: 15th August 2006 00:12
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Posts: 2,154 Joined: 9/10/2005 Awards:
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Well, unless you're going to go and jack into the Matrix to learn Japanese I don't really see how you can argue against it. What are you basing this on? But, I don't want to derail the thread. I just posted it if it had anything to say about Cloud, that's all.
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Post #128196
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Posted: 15th August 2006 12:55
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Posts: 127 Joined: 10/8/2006 Awards:
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Zeromus you have a point there, I didn't mean to offend you at all pal
 , and I think he is trying to tell us who's the boss Possible spoilers: highlight to view Sephiroth or Jenova -------------------- Ask me ANY FFV question! PM me! Sorry if I dissapoint you but I have nothing to do with hacking... |
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Post #128243
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Posted: 15th August 2006 14:09
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Posts: 2,154 Joined: 9/10/2005 Awards:
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Oh, okay.
Well, he's just giving an analysis of each section. He even says that his brackets aren't a part of the guide, just added for clarification. But, this is getting off topic, so if you want to discuss it more, you can PM me. -------------------- |
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Post #128251
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