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I've always wondered which Masamune was the best. Personally, I prefer the Chrono series version only because of my Frog obsession (look at avatar), and because most people equate the Masamune with Sephroth and the FF series, even though the weapon is more notable to the Chrono series than FF. -CSM

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Definatley Chrono trigger's masamune.
its involvement to the storyline is what makes it great, I remember how awsome it was

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

when Frog uses the masamune to smash the rock

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

]Also how in a way your actions are what made the masamune the masamune. starts off as the red knife and you stab the machine with, the combined power of Masa and Mune.

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I like Sephiroths masamune and Frogs masamune.
I like Sephiroths sword for looks and awesomeness.
But i like Frog's masamune for looks, and the backstory of it. It's cool how they made a sword have a backstory about Cyrus and Magus.

Edit

Ahh yes Cloud has most of my answer, i just found how it was cool how it had its backstory, but thats me.

This post has been edited by Dragon King on 20th July 2006 03:50

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Arthas:Shut up you damned ghost.

-Warcraft III Kel'thuzad comparing Arthas and Sylvanas Windrunner.

Haven't gotten around to playing CT yet, so I went with FF5. Nothing like attacking first regardless of speed.

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The CT 'Masamune' is actually called the 'Grandleon' (or was it 'Grandeon' or Granleon'...), so it isn't a 'true' Masamune.

I love all the incarnations.

FFI- Ultimate weapon, better than Excalibur
FFII- One of the best swords, and casts Haste for free!
FFIII- Another legendary weapon in Eureka
FFIV- Edge's weapon in the Core of the Moon.
FFV- One of the Sealed Kuza weapons. Gives you an 'Initiative' type effect
FFVI- Woosley kerfunkled it as 'Aura', somehow...One of Cayenne's best weapons.
FFVII- Sephiroth's badass katana.
FFVIII- One of Gilgamesh's random attacks. (I only get Zantetsuken and Excalipoor...)
FFIX- One of Zidane's best weapons. Casts 'Death Sentence' as a status effect.
FFX- Auron's Ultimate Weapon. It looks like some magical fork...
FFXI- I don't know.
FFXII- We'll see!

Is it in Tactics? I'm sure it is, but I just want to make sure.



Edit: I haven't played Seiken II for a long time...was it one of the best weapons?

This post has been edited by Zeromus_X on 20th July 2006 04:02

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Quote (Zeromus_X @ 19th July 2006 22:59)

Is it in Tactics? I'm sure it is, but I just want to make sure.

Yes, it can be stolen from Elmdor. Decent attack power, but its real use is to cast Haste and Regen on allies in range (until it breaks -- save for a rainy day).

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oh frogs masamune was the best of them all. i love how masa (or is it mune? im pretty sure its masa....but im usually wrong) wants to be the wind and runs around like a hyper idiot

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The CT 'Masamune' is actually called the 'Grandleon' (or was it 'Grandeon' or Granleon'...), so it isn't a 'true' Masamune.

ZX what are you talking about?

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"Have you ever seen a baby do that before?"

Well, nobody really cares, but the Japanese name for the sword was something like that. I wish I could remember for sure. I could also be mistaken. I really wish Woosley would've cooled off his 'creativity' and just plain translated things...

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Gotta love frog's.

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I voted Sephiroth's but haven't played any of the 2D Final Fantasys... so my vote doesn't really count that much.

I'm surprised that so many other people voted for the Chrono Trigger Masamune. I expected FF7's Masamune to be the most popular.

The reason that I chose this weapon is that it plays the biggest role in the story. (FF7's Masamune plays some role in the plot, but it is not usable by the party.) Not only is the acquisition of the Masamune a major event, but you also learn how it was originally created. Furthermore, Chrono Trigger's Masamune is the only version (I know of) that has a soul. More specifically, it has Masa and Mune.

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The world before the fall...
Delightful is the light of dawn...
Noble is the heart of man...

I voted for Chrono Trigger,for a few reasons.

When I was three or four,and just starting video games, I remember playing Chrono trigger. I remember the whole process you went through to get it(still love the prehistoric party) and I remember beating up magus with it while my mom was watchonng soap operas. Whenever I hear Masamune, I get fond memories of Chrono Trigger.

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I vote Frog's, even if it isn't really one. The whole red knife becomes masamune thing was pretty cool, and I like how important to the story it was.

Now that I think about it, Grand and Leon make a little more sense than Masa and Mune. Or were their names different too?

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Quote (Zeromus_X @ 19th July 2006 22:59)

The CT 'Masamune' is actually called the 'Grandleon' (or was it 'Grandeon' or Granleon'...), so it isn't a 'true' Masamune.

I love Chrono Trigger, but I'm not enough of a fan-girl to rely on unofficial translations of the Japanese version.

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The world before the fall...
Delightful is the light of dawn...
Noble is the heart of man...

I'm also surprised Sephiroth's variation didn't get the most votes, but I haven't played Chrono Trigger at all nor Chrono Cross for that matter.



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Of the given choices, I do enjoy the ridiculously long Masamune of Sephiroth. However, if given more choices, I'd pick the version found in FFT. Just because it looks cool and provides Regen and Haste.

Quote (Magicite @ 20th July 2006 15:34)

Quote (Zeromus_X @ 19th July 2006 22:59)

The CT 'Masamune' is actually called the 'Grandleon' (or was it 'Grandeon' or Granleon'...), so it isn't a 'true' Masamune.

I love Chrono Trigger, but I'm not enough of a fan-girl to rely on unofficial translations of the Japanese version.

regardless of the extent of your fangirl status, the "masamune" sword found in the english-copy ct (and cc) is *not* a valid masamune, and it doesn't even make sense for the sword to be the masamune. note that in every other game in which the masamune appears, it is a katana, and do note also that it has a japanese name...this is hardly by coincidence, given that the original historical masamune blades were also katana. if there were any masamune in ct, it should have been one of chrono's cheapons, but instead in the english version the name is applied to frog's grandleon, which is no sort of katana at all. thusly, "gran" and "leon" are the correct (and sensical) names for masa and mune, and the sword becomes the "grandleon/grand lion." frog's triple tech from the gold rock, after all, is called "grand dream," which is a play on combination of grandleon with doreen -- "doreen" and the english word "dream" differ by a single syllable in japanese. in fact, the true name of the grandleon, once all three souls have succesfully entered the sword, is the "grandream," speaking softly to the nature of mammon...

really, it makes no sense to speak of the "ct masamune" in comparison with all the other masamune, and it's a shame that ct's fake masamune made the poll choice instead of fft's masamune. it may not be the coolest-looking nor have the most creative backstory, but it's certainly one of the most useful masamune; the "draw out" from the masamune is one of the best abilities in the game, period.

This post has been edited by gozaru~ on 20th July 2006 21:26

Now, while I agree with gozaru~ that the Masamune from CT is not "correctly" named from a historical point of view, I still think that's the coolest Masamune.

As other people have mentioned, I love how that sword has an entire backstory to it--especially the Cyrus part. Splitting the name for those two characters is also easier with "Masamune" than "Granleon" since it doesn't sound as nice to name your characters "Grand" and "Lion".

That, and my taste prefers broadswords over katanas.

Sephy's Masamune is overrated, in my opinion, but even ignoring that, it's merely an oversized, extremely long blade, and it was used to do evil things. Frog's sword, on the other hand, is virtually a holy sword.*

The other Masamunes were nice tributes to Japanese history, but of the ones I actually have "used" (FFIV, FFV), they aren't particularly noteworthy/interesting in any way.

And Cyan has a Masamune? He uses katanas, but I don't recall him having a particular katana with that name. He has a Murasame, which can be traded for an Aura, so I guess that the Aura could count as a Masamune...

* I do NOT consider Chrono Cross canon.

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Now, while I agree with gozaru~ that the Masamune from CT is not "correctly" named from a historical point of view, I still think that's the coolest Masamune.

Well GMH sumed up pretty much what I was going to say, Except even if they had called it the Grandlion in the america version, it still would be sword i would choose out of all others. If it hadn't been a choice in the poll. I might have voted for Tactics masamune.
Also I did feel it was odd for a broadsword to be named the masamune. But It didn't matter that much to me.
my vote still stands The CT masamune is the best

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"Have you ever seen a baby do that before?"

Quote (Glenn Magus Harvey @ 20th July 2006 16:37)

And Cyan has a Masamune? He uses katanas, but I don't recall him having a particular katana with that name. He has a Murasame, which can be traded for an Aura, so I guess that the Aura could count as a Masamune...

Cyan does not have a sword named Masamune (in the English version), but some people think that the Aura is Masamune. This is probably a translation issue.

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The world before the fall...
Delightful is the light of dawn...
Noble is the heart of man...

Gozaru~, does it matter what kind of sword the Masamune is? There is no "correct" Masamune, because FF and CT are made by different teams (and for the later FFs, an ENTIRELY different one). Also, it was a Polearm in FFIX. I don't want to get into nitty details about this one. -CSM

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Quote (Crazyswordsman @ 20th July 2006 18:55)

Gozaru~, does it matter what kind of sword the Masamune is? There is no "correct" Masamune, because FF and CT are made by different teams (and for the later FFs, an ENTIRELY different one). Also, it was a Polearm in FFIX. I don't want to get into nitty details about this one. -CSM

when i am voting in a poll on *masamune,* i expect it to first and foremost make sense, rather than to cater to popular or nostalgic misconceptions -- thus, when i vote in a poll on *masamune,* i expect to see the options reflect the actual sword, and not a different sword entirely which has no connection whatsoever with the original. given that the masamune katana are legendary japanese katana, and given that the very ct "team" you appeal to didn't even use a masamune in their game, i wonder how you figure the grandlion is any sort of masamune at all...after all, it is a far more original concept, has a *far* richer backstory (perhaps the most developed of any weapon in the square canon), and, of course, isn't very well any type of katana at all. it would be something like if some video game used guitars as weapons, and i had a guitar named "lucille" that was like a martin d52 or something. it would be totally nonsensical. "but it's still a guitar, who cares if it's electric/a gibson/has humbuckers or coils?"

the masamune, whatever you may believe, was *not* created by the final fantasy team. it's a historical easter egg. also, ff9 is a stupid and terrible game that doesn't even have any katana in the first place. characters use lacrosse sticks as weapons and have hands the size of half of their bodies. what did you really expect? ct is one of the best games of all time, with one of the cleanest, most original, and most solid backstories -- a somewhat complex collection of connections, at that -- and one of the timeless subplots the game offers is that of the grandlion. it just doesn't fit with the rest of the masamune swords, which beg comparison on the basis of their respective inspirations being all the exact same thing.

Not a big fan of swords myself unless they're a chainsaw or an HF blade backed up by a handgun, but I know that a Masamune is a Katana and a Katana is not a weapon designed to take on steel plate armour.

I think, though, I do prefer Sephiroth's sword over the other examples that I have actually seen in any of the FF's where it is present and I have used them (Not played Chrono Trigger and haven't got far in SoM). After all, the real Masamune swords had/have a bit of a mythical aura about them, and only in FF7 do you not really get to use the blade, and it's got it's own little myth about it. A myth that is false, I suppose, but then again, most myths are. Never using it simply adds to the aura of the weapon.

This post has been edited by Del S on 21st July 2006 16:15

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CT for me, since that one seemed o be the one i remebered the most.

Quote (gozaru~ @ 21st July 2006 11:31)

when i am voting in a poll on *masamune,* i expect it to first and foremost make sense, rather than to cater to popular or nostalgic misconceptions --  wordswordswordswords being all the exact same thing.

As soon as we are all speaking Japanese on this forum I'll agree with you. Until then, it's an incredibly minor and pedantic nitpick, historical accuracy notwithstanding.

All polls do need more FFT love, though.

This post has been edited by Rangers51 on 21st July 2006 16:49

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Quote (gozaru~ @ 21st July 2006 10:31)

when i am voting in a poll on *masamune,* i expect it to first and foremost make sense, rather than to cater to popular or nostalgic misconceptions -- thus, when i vote in a poll on *masamune,* i expect to see the options reflect the actual sword, and not a different sword entirely which has no connection whatsoever with the original. given that the masamune katana are legendary japanese katana, and given that the very ct "team" you appeal to didn't even use a masamune in their game, i wonder how you figure the grandlion is any sort of masamune at all...after all, it is a far more original concept, has a *far* richer backstory (perhaps the most developed of any weapon in the square canon), and, of course, isn't very well any type of katana at all. it would be something like if some video game used guitars as weapons, and i had a guitar named "lucille" that was like a martin d52 or something. it would be totally nonsensical. "but it's still a guitar, who cares if it's electric/a gibson/has humbuckers or coils?"

the masamune, whatever you may believe, was *not* created by the final fantasy team. it's a historical easter egg. also, ff9 is a stupid and terrible game that doesn't even have any katana in the first place. characters use lacrosse sticks as weapons and have hands the size of half of their bodies. what did you really expect? ct is one of the best games of all time, with one of the cleanest, most original, and most solid backstories -- a somewhat complex collection of connections, at that -- and one of the timeless subplots the game offers is that of the grandlion. it just doesn't fit with the rest of the masamune swords, which beg comparison on the basis of their respective inspirations being all the exact same thing.

Here's how you could have said this without making everyone mad at you for your condescending tone and general throwing about of insults:

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The masamune katana are legendary Japanese katana.  Since the one in Chrono Trigger wasn't a katana and had a name and backstory unrelated to 'masamune' in the Japanese version, it shouldn't be considered to be a "true" masamune.

The masamune is a historical easter egg, not an original Final Fantasy creation, so there is a limit to the creative license that should be taken with it.  Since the one in CT doesn't fit the profile, I think it would have been better to keep the Grandlion name and back story.

Also, FF9 sucks.

I'm not really sure what FF9 had to do with any of this, but I guess it needs to be said from time to time.

But seriously, instead of making everyone want to pound your head into the wall for being overwhelmingly rude any time you have additional information to offer or a different opinion, why not try treating your fellow CoN posters like human beings who are capable of adding 2 and 2 and getting 4 consistently?

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I'd like to make a simple historical argument here:

Masamune was never in actuality a sword. Masamune is a second name given to Goro Nyudo, one of the most reverred sword smiths of Japan. Masamune forged swords around the 14th century AD. One of the swords he created is known as the "Honjo Masamune," and is regarded as one of his greatest works. It's entirely possible that the Honjo Masamune is the basis for the Square Masamunes, but I'm more partial to believe that the swords are a tribute to Masamune himself as opposed to any given creation of his.

Another famous swordsmith, Muramasa, forged swords two centuries after Masamune, also makes an appearance in Square games.


Regardless, it's my contention that the official translation of Chrono Trigger called Frog's sword the Masamune. As such, I would contend it to be an incarnation of the Masamune in Square games. I don't doubt that it was changed for the American version, I just don't care. I played the American version, so to me it is and always has been the Masamune.

Also, as Goz said, it is the most developed sword under Square. It's always been my favourite as a result of that.

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As soon as we are all speaking Japanese on this forum I'll agree with you. Until then, it's an incredibly minor and pedantic nitpick, historical accuracy notwithstanding.

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But seriously, instead of making everyone want to pound your head into the wall for being overwhelmingly rude any time you have additional information to offer or a different opinion, why not try treating your fellow CoN posters like human beings who are capable of adding 2 and 2 and getting 4 consistently?

when somebody replies to me and tells me i'm wrong (not "correct") for being right, and especially when it's someone like csm, who honestly *can't* put 2 and 2 to get 4 (what with criticising the use of "ridiculous" weapons like shields and defending maniacally the use of "clever" ones like paintbrushes...in the history of con i have hardly met a person who argues more out of game favouritism than logic and valid critique...), expect the usual "pedantic," "condescending," and "insulting," if not really so monumental response from me.

is it so wrong to play the "badguy?" does anyone listen to jim rome? if i don't do it -- if people like me don't do it -- the rest of you who are just plain middle-of-the-road wouldn't be able to feel as good about being middle-of-the-road-type fellows. "well, at least i'm not an asshole like goz. that's got to give me a shitload of points, just that right there." furthermore, if there are any other two people on this board who should take care when accusing others of rudeness/condescension, they escape me.

i made a painfully unobtrusive post in this thread about how the masamune was really not the masamune and how i'd have preferred to vote for fft's. the poll-maker apparently took offense to the suggestion that a lowly bystander might have the audacity to assume he knows a bit more than the CREATOR OF FF WIKI, and was told that i was wrong and there is no "correct" masamune (which is a legendary historical artifact). the obtrusive post followed at my being told the critique of the word "masamune" for the ct original creation "grandlion" in the unobtrusive post was wrong. people tend to remember facts better when facts are shoved in their faces. all i really want to do is baby be friends with you is make the world a little bit smarter...

edit: oh, wait, soup was wasting post space? he thoguht to come out of the shadows so as to "correct" me, but let's look at the facts:

Quote ("gozaru" @ "a long ass time ago")

given that the masamune katana are legendary japanese katana,

we see quite clearly that the fact that masamune katana are katana in the PLURAL has been addressed by none other than yours truly like 23 posts back.

so how does this change the fact that the masamune is a historical easter egg? how does this change the fact that the masamune was incorporated into square games because the masamune katana are legendary to the point of fairy-tale embellishment? how does this change the fact that the sword in chrono trigger is a completely original creation *far* more important and connected to the ct backstory than any incarnation of the masamune has ever been? how is this even a "historical argument" in the first place?

who cares if the name masamune is wrong, eh? well, for one, i said only i won't vote for it because its the wrong masamune -- it is, in fact, my favourite sword listed in the poll. why is this so uncomfortable to people? i never said voting for that sword was stupid because it's not the masamune.

btw, soup, is this the greek or latin masamune?

edit: wow, we're not done here!

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So CSM, who asked you a legitimate question and was looking for your opinion, is now incapable of putting 2 and 2 together to make 4? Just because he doesn't know obscure details about Japanese history or whatnot doesn't mean you get to mock him or anyone else who might not know this.

when the fkcu did i ever fkcuing say any fkcuing thing about not putting 2 and fkcuing 2 together to make 4 having ANY FKCUING THING to do with knowledge of japanese history? i gave a CONCRETE and PERFECT example of an ILLOGICAL set of conclusions made by csm in the past for the purpose of furthering his old-school elitst mindset. where the fkuc do you get off calling that a bullshit and unacceptable flame?

i gave my fkcuing legitimate opinion, which was that ct's masamune doesn't fall into the category that the rest of the masamune swords do. csm's fkcuing reply was, "well, sorry, but you're wrong, there's no correct masamune because ct is made by a seperate team." what the fkcu? are you fkcuing serious? because i'm right and have the nerve to get it accross, you're going to WARN me?

and another thing about your biased moderation team -- i have NEVER, EVER in the THREE+ years i have been here, EVER had my warning level lowered, except when josh removed an outrageous warning he gave me that he knew he could not possibly justify without warning another individual he refuses to warn as well. NEVER. the con rules and various posts have suggested timeframes for warning removal that span from three months to "when the mod team feels it is time." i STILL have warning from THREE years ago, and i get warned for stuff that NOBODY else would get warned for. why don't you just ban me if it makes you so uncomfortable to have the brash but intelligent voice of unpopular opinion here?

mocking people for not knowing something is one thing. mocking people for coming up with RIDICULOUS and LOGICALLY UNSOUND conclusions is THE WAY OF THE WORLD. i'm not allowed to roll ym eyes at people, eh? yeah, so the con moderation team hasn't got a *hot damn* thing to say when NP outright *sabotages* -- and admits to it, for the love of God -- my thread on id or Christianity, but goz sure can't roll his fckuing eyes at someone who says using shields as weapons a stupid game makes?

This post has been edited by gozaru~ on 21st July 2006 17:53

So CSM, who asked you a legitimate question and was looking for your opinion, is now incapable of putting 2 and 2 together to make 4? Just because he doesn't know obscure details about Japanese history or whatnot doesn't mean you get to mock him or anyone else who might not know this. That's bullshit, and a completely unacceptable flame. Knock off the condescension NOW. Final warning.

This post has been edited by Neal on 21st July 2006 17:36

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