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[B]Why why did they ff was based around crytals originaly but then poof there gone
not even a word of um i think that takes alot out of the series

Well, they nixed 'em first in FFVI, and since I assume not a lot of people complained then they just never brought them back. Still, both VI and VII have sorta "crystal replacements" like Magicite and Materia: They both have similar story purposes as the crystals did (gotta catch 'em all!) and, like with the crystals in FFIIIj and FFV, grant magic/abilities. The only thing they really lack is being quad-elemental. Even the Zodiac stones in Tactics are reminiscent of the crystals.

I guess after five games it gets tiring using the same plot device(s), but it's more like they faded from being the initial attention-grabbers in the stories rather than disappearing abruptly.

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Words of Wisdom:

If something can go wrong, it will.

If anything simply cannot go wrong, it will anyway.

If there is a possibility of several things going wrong, the one that will cause the most damage will be the one to go wrong. - Murphy’s Law

Boing! Zoom! - Mr. Saturn

The crystals *sorta* return in FF IX, when they have to obtain the four elemental

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

mirrors in order to enter Terra.

Each of the four is located in a stereotypically suitable element-themed location and is guarded by an element-themed guardian, even if you only fight one of them.

But yeah, the answer to the question posed in the topic line... because they wanted to take the series in a new creative direction? There is only so much you can do with "search for the four crystals" themes, and I guess they can dump any ideas to that effect in the next Seiken Densetsu game. Which I hope comes out soon.

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FF9's "The crystals return!!" slogan was the most blantantly depression form of false advertising ever. Yeah. They do return.

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For about 5 minutes at the end of the game when Kuja decides to destroy this previously unheard of Original Deus Ex Machine Crystal.

I would say after 5, it stopped being Final Fantasy. The changes were too blantant and the game's setting (medieval-ish where magic is commonplace and technology is nearly unheard of and treated almost like we'd treat magic), basic premisis (bad guy wants to do something to the 4 crystals that would cause the end of the world), and so forth, were all lost in favor of various new experimental attempts at something different. At this point, FF is just a series of RPGs with various minor clichés that drag along from one game to the next (chocobos, Cid, etc.) It doesn't feel like a series so much as a name people associate with slapped onto various RPGs.

I think Square needs to be a little bolder and just plain rename the series. It's not FF anymore. It's still a good series of RPGs but just not the crystal/elements/medieval/save the world/inhuman badguy genre anymore. Now, crystals are gone, elements are just a battle mechanics issue, the general setting is far more futuristic, and the bad guy is usually just an average, ambitious Joe who ascends to godhood beacuse it's the "in" thing to do, and stopping new gods who want to enslave the world makes you "cool"

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The first time the crystals really appeared was FFIII. FFII doesn't have crystals, and FFI has orbs. So in the numbered games, the crystals are only a part of III, IV, V, and IX. Therefore, not having them in a game isn't as much a break with tradition as nixing Cid (all since II), the airship (all since I), Chocobos (all since II), or the prelude...which they eventually nixed in, of course, VIII.

The Prelude (or Crystal Theme, which, in name alone, doesn't have much meaning anymore) made a remixed albeit hideous return near the end of IX and was played in a techno-y fashion near the beginning of X - a style of music that, in my opinion, sounds like garbage when applied to that particular song. But you're right - it's no longer the same simple, continuous tune with a high-pitched melody about 20 seconds in (and that, itself, only existed since IV) that many people associate with the series more so than the "official" theme that hasn't been present since IX.

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The first time the crystals really appeared was FFIII. FFII doesn't have crystals, and FFI has orbs.

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

Technically, FFIIj does have crystals (orbs), they just aren't integral to the story. They're inside Mysidia Tower, where you find the Ultima spell. Obviously they aren't very significant there.

And in FFI, "orbs" was the translation for "crystals". Square apparently corrected that in the rereleases.

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Words of Wisdom:

If something can go wrong, it will.

If anything simply cannot go wrong, it will anyway.

If there is a possibility of several things going wrong, the one that will cause the most damage will be the one to go wrong. - Murphy’s Law

Boing! Zoom! - Mr. Saturn

Hmm..OK, then. Crystals are in I & II.

They're still not integral to the storyline in II, which was my point. Really, only in I (as orbs...ah, translation), III-V, and a lil bit in IX do they play an important role. My point was that no crystals doesn't=no FF in my view.

ask yourself this do you really want to find 4 more crystals with barret and cloud?

Scene 1

Some random mystic girl: you must find the crystals in thier purest spirt stream from which all magic is made

Cloud: got to stop seperoth
Barret: got to stop shinra

Scene 2 inside the crystal cave
Cloud: OMNI SLASH elemental gurdian dies in a single turn. woot lvl up!! wow he dropped the fire crystal better not give that to seperioth
Barret: thats the plants life dont be messing with that (random swear word)

Scene 3 seperioth ironicly being there
Cloud: i will defeat you!!!!!
Barret ... (random swear word)
seperioth/jenova: you will give me the stone
cloud goes into a trance
cloud gives the fire crystal to seperioth
muahahahhahhahhaah you better not forget the other 4 crystals in the.... DARK WORLD

the whole crystal thing is kinda old

This post has been edited by Blythe on 11th March 2005 16:33

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procastinate now, dont put it off

lol Yeah that about sums it up.

The idea of a few items that control everything is old fasioned, despite how often you see it nowadays (cough lotr); but it takes creativity to make it interesting. But how many ideas for an old theme can you come up with?
Besides, nowadays, people fight for ideas or other people, not things.

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If you really want there to be crystals you can just sorta... pretend their there, and just have absolutely nothing to do with you, and therefore aren't shown. There's really nothing that says they aren't.

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There were crystals in FFVII aswell. The 4 "huge materias" at Cosmo Canyon are pretty much the same thing as the 4 crystals. As has been mentioned above, FFVI also featured crystals in the form of magicites. The crystals aren't integral to the plot of these games but they are still present, similar to FFII.

The only FF games that didn't feature any at all are FFVIII and FFX... or maybe they did if you look hard enough...

But the Huge materia were made in reactors. unlike the crystals which were made from times begining. but if you desperatly had to have a crystal for it to be a final fantsey then you could say WEAPON is the crystals i mean come on RUBY WEAPON (game caps them) EMERALD WEAPON, DIAMOND WEAPON ULTIMATE WEAPON sure sounds like crystals to me

This post has been edited by Blythe on 14th March 2005 20:04

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procastinate now, dont put it off

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which they eventually nixed in, of course, VIII.

the prelude is present in ff8.

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(and that, itself, only existed since IV)

the prelude has existed since ff1 and has made an appearance in every numeraled game (barring perhaps ff11, no clue there).

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FFI has orbs

"orb" is the ff1 translation for "crystal."

i'm going to go ahead and agree with most of the other people here and say that there is only so much you can do with one overdone story device. in my opinion, the drift away from the crystals and the banal medieval "swords-n-sh~t" style of pre-6 ffs (ff4 gets a cookie for having a live story) was for the better; unquestionably the writers would ahve been incapable of the originality in, e.g., ff7's and ffx's stories, given that they were forced to stick witht eh same crystals motif. i prefer that the deevelopers are given the opportunity to explore devices like genetic engineering, self-sacrifice, love -- as a focus, &c. in fact, the "return to the crystals" insult that was ff9 was quite probably my *least* favourite since-5 ff.

edit: i hit "submit" before i even finished

This post has been edited by gozaru~ on 15th March 2005 02:14

Quote (gozaru~ @ 14th March 2005 21:01)

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(and that, itself, only existed since IV)

the prelude has existed since ff1 and has made an appearance in every numeraled game (barring perhaps ff11, no clue there).

Yes, it has, but I was talking about the second melody about 20 seconds in. That's only been around since IV.

--------------------

Words of Wisdom:

If something can go wrong, it will.

If anything simply cannot go wrong, it will anyway.

If there is a possibility of several things going wrong, the one that will cause the most damage will be the one to go wrong. - Murphy’s Law

Boing! Zoom! - Mr. Saturn

To be quite honest i couldnt hack the crystal buisness. yeah it was a cool concept but materia is way better its a shame they scraped it in final fantasy *poo* 8

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SilverMaduin 4th September-2006
Heh Heh... Rap music....

Quote (gozaru~ @ 14th March 2005 21:01)

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which they eventually nixed in, of course, VIII.

the prelude is present in ff8.

Quote

(and that, itself, only existed since IV)

the prelude has existed since ff1 and has made an appearance in every numeraled game (barring perhaps ff11, no clue there).

Quote

FFI has orbs

"orb" is the ff1 translation for "crystal."

i'm going to go ahead and agree with most of the other people here and say that there is only so much you can do with one overdone story device. in my opinion, the drift away from the crystals and the banal medieval "swords-n-sh~t" style of pre-6 ffs (ff4 gets a cookie for having a live story) was for the better; unquestionably the writers would ahve been incapable of the originality in, e.g., ff7's and ffx's stories, given that they were forced to stick witht eh same crystals motif. i prefer that the deevelopers are given the opportunity to explore devices like genetic engineering, self-sacrifice, love -- as a focus, &c. in fact, the "return to the crystals" insult that was ff9 was quite probably my *least* favourite since-5 ff.

edit: i hit "submit" before i even finished

is the prelude the marchy kinda theme over the credits at the end? and at the very beggining off FF?

I noticed that playing FF last night

FF1 had two of the series's trademark music themes: the prelude, which plays when you first turn on the NES and the blue screen with the prologue (the world was chaos, blah, 4 light warriors, blah); hence the name the melody was given. The other was what is informally known as the "FF Theme", played during the credits and when you cross that first bridge. I can recall hearing both in just about every FF, though the later ones tend to remix the hell out of it. But, generally, the prelude is heard before the game, and the "Theme" during the credits.

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M777: lightweight 155mm howitzer
3/11 rules over all artillery!

I did like the whole crystal idea in the early games of FF and glad to see them sorta bringing them back in the newer games, especiall FF: Crystal Chronicals and FF Tactics Advance. I especially like in FFTA you actually are trying to destroy the crystals instead of saving them.

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U sir R a n00b >:-( - Cactuar

Not just crystals, but they also made the WEAPONS that you fight (4 of them) like the Elemental Fiends in FF1, FF3(Not sure), and FF4.

Ruby Weapon: Fire (He uses Fire attacks, duh..)
Emerald Weapon: Water (Because he swims underwater and uses water attacks)
Diamond Weapon: Earth (Probably because of his Physical Defense)
Ultima Weapon: Wind (Because he flies)

This post has been edited by LockewithCeles on 31st March 2005 20:17

Well with all the previous FF's they did with crystals I guess they thought it was getting stale.

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Quote (Zeil @ 30th March 2005 16:32)

Well with all the previous FF's they did with crystals I guess they thought it was getting stale.

That is true they may have wanted to try something different, but they still throw in a Cid in every FF and a Biggs and Wedge since FFVI.

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War is for the participants a test of character; it makes bad men worse and good men better. - Joshua Chamberlain

U sir R a n00b >:-( - Cactuar

Quote (BGrugby @ 30th March 2005 18:42)

Quote (Zeil @ 30th March 2005 16:32)

Well with all the previous FF's they did with crystals I guess they thought it was getting stale.

That is true they may have wanted to try something different, but they still throw in a Cid in every FF and a Biggs and Wedge since FFVI.

Hmm... Biggs and Wedge appeared in three FF games as far as I've played...

Biggs and Wedge appeared as Imperial Soldiers in FF6, in FF7 Biggs and Wedge were AVALANCHE (Just like Returners but with the name swapped ), and in FF8 Biggs was a Captain and Wedge was his Soldier..

In FF9 no Biggs or Wedge were there.. I haven't played FF10 yet so I'm not sure if Biggs and Wedge are there.

They are. They're guards in Luca solely for recruiting as Blitzball players - they have no plot relevance otherwise.

Though I don't see what Biggs and Wedge have to do with the crystal subplots in the first five games...

--------------------

Words of Wisdom:

If something can go wrong, it will.

If anything simply cannot go wrong, it will anyway.

If there is a possibility of several things going wrong, the one that will cause the most damage will be the one to go wrong. - Murphy’s Law

Boing! Zoom! - Mr. Saturn

I dont' know, that was FF "thing" for a while, things change...in the words of Bob Dylan "Times, they are-a changin'"

Yes, there are...another Bush in office...we're all dead.

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Oro?

Quote (Blythe @ 14th March 2005 13:01)

... i mean come on RUBY WEAPON (game caps them) EMERALD WEAPON, DIAMOND WEAPON ULTIMATE WEAPON sure sounds like crystals to me

Quote (LockewithCeles @ 30th March 2005 13:38)

Not just crystals, but they also made the WEAPONS that you fight (4 of them) like the Elemental Fiends in FF1, FF3(Not sure), and FF4.

Ruby Weapon: Fire (He uses Fire attacks, duh..)
Emerald Weapon: Water (Because he swims underwater and uses water attacks)
Diamond Weapon: Earth (Probably because of his Physical Defense)
Ultima Weapon: Wind (Because he flies)

You forgot SAPPHIRE WEAPON, the one that Rufus with the rest of Shinra decided to give a splitting headache at Junon.

Also, about theme music. I believe only three themes have survived thus far. The Prelude (or as I like to call it, The Crystal Prelude), the "FF Theme," and the victory song. A note about the victory song, though; from Final Fantasy VII and on, they axed two-thirds of the song (I don't count the stupid thing in VII when you win at Fort Condor).

I didn't mind the crystals thing, really. They gave the FF world the "fantasy" aspect to it. FFVI was slightly pushing the boundaries for me, but technology was in its infancy and still had that quaintness about it. FFVII had technology better than our own, FFVIII was just in it's own world. FFIX seemed less "fantasy"ish and more adventure cartoonish, and FFX was kinda... just there. I get a little more than miffed when a game called "Final Fantasy" (just look at the name, don't attach any connotations to it), is having technology greater than our own modern society.

Dragons are NOT meant to be killed with machine guns or orbital bombardments (referring specifically to Barret's attacks).

EDIT: Oh I just looked at the thread topic again. We all have a feeling why they took them out (or didn't bother to include them again), but I think that FF is starting to lose it's vision of fantasy now. Squaresoft seemed obssessed about technology and cutting-edge graphics and video, meant in more ways than one. We shall see how FFXII fares under the new Square-Enix leadership. Hmm... I remember saying that phrase a long time ago...

I'd say one of the more annoying gripes I have are the damn clothing. Nice, yes. Revealing, yes. Pleasing to the eye, yes. But where's the all the knights in shining armor?! The peasant clothes?! How does someone like Rikku survive getting a slashed across her chest and still stand up?! ::sighs::

This post has been edited by RoyalKnight on 18th April 2005 21:53

To steal a phrase from Steven King: the world has moved on. They're simply moving along with it. Ever notice that kids don't want to play cowboys and indians like they did decades ago? Or how 8-tracks and vinyl records are gone? These things are no longer the obsession of the general public, and they find thier interest captivated by something new.

Hate to say it, but the fantasy genre is slowly becoming antique.

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M777: lightweight 155mm howitzer
3/11 rules over all artillery!

The Huge Materia.

It's interesting how they 'hid' the crystals as other plot devices (Magicite, Materia, etc.), which I think is rather clever if it was intentional at all. Although, I for one, was a bit disappointed in the

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

cop-out crystal at the end of FFIX, but maybe that's just me. "The Crystal Comes Back" xD

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Hate to say it, but the fantasy genre is slowly becoming antique.

Well, how do you figure? Even if RPGs get all technological; they'll still retain the same basic concepts, and there aren't even many RPGs that do away with all midieval aspects at all. This is especially true for the FF series.

At any rate, I for one, am happy in the return of crystals in FFXIII. Even though it'll probably be six years before I'll ever play it.

This post has been edited by Zeromus_X on 11th July 2006 17:58

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