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It's hard to remember what you learned by word-of-mouth, strategy guides, Nintendo Power, and in the internet, but it seems to me there are quite a few things that you can't get by accident, by hints, and all that. Feel free to contradict or add examples.

a.) Breaking the curse on the shield. You don't just decide to fight 255 battles with this thing. Is there any hint about that at all, within the game?

b.) Moogle Charm - now, arguably, you shouldn't get this, since it's so broken, but still, awfully random, no?

c.) Hidon - bringing the right two characters to a fairly obscure town at the far end of the map. You'd need a sense of sentimentality to get that to work.


Any more?

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I hear the jury's still out on...science.

That's it, you people have stood in my way long enough! I'm going to clown college!

Betting the right sword in order to find Shadow

The exact spot where you have to wait for Shadow otherwise you'll lose him.

I have to disagree with the above two posters.

Someone tells you someone is looking for the Striker at the colleseum.
So, that is a hint.

Nextly, when you're about to jump, it prompts you with this:
"Jump!"
"Gotta wait for Shadow"

I'd say that's a hint.


I'm not sure about the Cursed Shield, though, I think one NPC drops a hint about it...

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"A little tight, but the price was right" - Locke
"Oh, what a Fuddy Duddy" - Relm
"..." - Shadow
"I'm a General, not some love starved twit" - Celes
"Although Edgar showers his attention on the ladies, most are smart enough to pay him no attention. Oh! King Edgar!" - Figaro Castle Inn Attendant

I second Locke_Cole's post; they're hinted at.

Getting Gogo is another one. It's unlikely that you'd find Triangle Island in the first place without knowing about it - even if you saw it by chance, you'd probably never think that it would hold any significance (especially if you DO land and end up fighting puny enemies.) Then you have to get sucked up by a monster - how likely are you to let yourself deliberately lose to a moderately easy enemy on an island you can't see on the map that is in no way suspicious?

Although I DO think there's some dialog in the game about it, but I don't remember. I'm almost certain someone mentions the triangle island in Thamasa in the WoR...

Going back to Doma with Cyan and sleeping there is another one, I think.

Were it not for ROM hacking, for all we know there could be a hidden ninth dragon of sorts, complete with custom pre-battle dialog, somewhere lurking in the game's ROM.

Yeah, I know, that sounds far-fetched. It's not like there are dummied enemies in FF6. Or that we'd have a snowball's chance in hell of finding out about it.

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

Actually, I'm pretty sure the thieves or some other NPC says 'I've heard of a giant sand worm that could swallow up the whole ocean! I wonder what it'd be like to get swallowed up by it!' or something along those lines. Still, pretty vague.

Never heard anything regarding the Paladin's Shield.

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OSonic Rave
/ \Last Arcanum
[ ]Strike Raid
XRagnarok

I actually initiated the 'Cyan's Dream' sequence by accident; I was getting whomped somewhere or other when I played this game for the first or second time, so I had to use an inn (because the tent item doesn't exist the first or second time through the game). Since I liked Doma's music, I went there. And BAM! There it was.

By the same token, I got Gogo by accident. I was fighting around in the triangle island (because I get lost a lot and try to find hidden stuff in the wierdest places, even today; freakin underside of the couch hasn't given me any spectacular drops yet, though), and then got hungry so I went a got a snack. I left just as a battle was starting (hey, when hunger strikes, you had BEST feed it ASAP), and when I got back, I was in a weird cave. Of course, I died by the Brawlers there, but I soon found the cave again and got Gogo.

Along the same lines of impossible puzzles, though, are the new FF games. Those are freakin ridiculous without a guide. Try getting anywhere NEAR 90% in FFIX without a guide and I'll shake your hand (heck, even try getting 75% of the cards without one). I remember looking for the locations of some things and it was like "Talk to person X three times, answering 'I agree' each time, then talk to person A again and say 'I disagree' and then to person B and say 'I agree' twice. Then take two laps around the level, switch characters, fight a battle using Waterga, Jump, and Exploder, in that order, and then rest in the inn at location X. Talk to the innkeep and deny his request to stay three times and then return to the original location and talk to person A again, agreeing with him. However, you MUST start the conversation with the O button instead of with the X button, otherwise it won't work."

Cripes. That turned me off to the new games for good. Stupid Square© and their impossible puzzles.

This post has been edited by Caesar on 7th June 2006 00:31

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Is PJ

Someone's never dodged 200 lighting bolts before.

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OSonic Rave
/ \Last Arcanum
[ ]Strike Raid
XRagnarok

I think there's a pretty big difference between "impossible" puzzles and puzzles that you simply don't know exist.

An impossible puzzle would be one that's just mind-bogglingly hard to figure out, like the water temple in Ocarina of Time. Square shies away from that sort of puzzle and goes to the "we put the secret switch behind the forth pedestal to the right. Its the same pedestal that had a plaque on it in the first temple in the game. Its SO OBVIOUS!"

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Oh sure, I don't have to get kicked in the junk to activate it, but I like it anyway. -- Thief commenting on the difference between Throw and Blue Magic.

This has been bugging me, and if anyone can tell me the particulars I would appreciate it- How did you know to do L-R-L when you first got Sabin? Was it in the manual? Because when I got the game I wasn't interested in reading manuals at my age.

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If you've been mod-o-fied,
It's an illusion, and you're in-between.
Don't you be tarot-fied,
It's just alot of nothing, so what can it mean?
~Frank Zappa

Sins exist only for people who are on the Way or approaching the Way

I think after awhile in the fight with Vargas, a message pops up telling you how to do it. But I read the manual, so I already knew hoe to do it, so I could be wrong. But yeah, I've always wondered about that.

I guess I liked reading the manuals when I was a kid, then.

This post has been edited by Zeromus_X on 7th June 2006 02:44

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OSonic Rave
/ \Last Arcanum
[ ]Strike Raid
XRagnarok

Quote (WildHalcyon @ 6th June 2006 21:51)

I think there's a pretty big difference between "impossible" puzzles and puzzles that you simply don't know exist.

An impossible puzzle would be one that's just mind-bogglingly hard to figure out, like the water temple in Ocarina of Time. Square shies away from that sort of puzzle and goes to the "we put the secret switch behind the forth pedestal to the right. Its the same pedestal that had a plaque on it in the first temple in the game. Its SO OBVIOUS!"

Quote (WildHalcyon@first post)

It's hard to remember what you learned by word-of-mouth, strategy guides, Nintendo Power, and in the internet, but it seems to me there are quite a few things that you can't get by accident, by hints, and all that.

But you said in the first post that an impossible puzzle is "one that you can't get by accident, by hints, and all that", or so it's implied since "Impossible puzzles" is the title and that is your first sentence. Things I can't get by accident and things I don't know exist seem to be pretty much the same thing, but that could be just me.

In your latter post, though, I think I understand what you're getting at. An "impossible puzzle" is something that is mandatory to continue, yet just extremely difficult to solve. That would seem to make more sense, but it isn't reflected in any of the examples except the Water Temple (I was stuck there for ages, too).

Oh well. I don't have any more examples either way.

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Is PJ

I let the Zone Eater swallow me just to see what would happen... and I ran into Cyan's dream by accident while sleeping in Doma (same with Shadow's dreams).

However, besides Narshe's mayor claiming that the Cursed Shield would be powerful if it could be disspelled, there's absolutely no hint as to how to do so. Unless I had a guide, there is no way I would equip that shield for 1 battle, let alone 255. I'd simply assume that another NPC at some point would disspell it, etc etc.

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Lou: There's a couple of guys fighting down at the aquarium, Chief.
Wiggum: Do they still sell those frozen bananas?
Lou: I think so.
Wiggum: Let's roll.

I hated in I think Cyan's dream, on the train, there were those awful switches on the trains. There were three chests, and one would be in your way at all times, and it was just awful to me.





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You're telling me that there's no hope.

I'm telling you you're wrong.

I had no problems with the game except tht in wob (World of Balance) theres an island with an invisible behemoth and if u hit him with magic then he'll appear but shortly after he uses meteo and killed me. so i just gave up on him and havent seen him since. anyone know wat u get from him if u beat him

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Kefka's Message of the week: Get off your couch noobs and get my new game Dissidia 012

I think you're confusing the gnome and the tonberry, Caesar, Wild Halcyon and I only posted once each.

Striker is hinted at, I'm fairly sure, but the 'wait for shadow' doesn't come up until after you turn down the first request to jump. So, 'accident' is an acceptable answer, I suppose, but when you're hightailing it through a timed encounter, and the ground is about to fall apart and the world's about to explode, and you spot the airship, there's gotta be more saying 'don't jump' before you already, well, don't jump.

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I hear the jury's still out on...science.

That's it, you people have stood in my way long enough! I'm going to clown college!

Quote (Silverlance @ 6th June 2006 17:01)

Getting Gogo is another one. It's unlikely that you'd find Triangle Island in the first place without knowing about it - even if you saw it by chance, you'd probably never think that it would hold any significance (especially if you DO land and end up fighting puny enemies.) Then you have to get sucked up by a monster - how likely are you to let yourself deliberately lose to a moderately easy enemy on an island you can't see on the map that is in no way suspicious?

Although I DO think there's some dialog in the game about it, but I don't remember. I'm almost certain someone mentions the triangle island in Thamasa in the WoR...

Going back to Doma with Cyan and sleeping there is another one, I think.

Both of those are indeed largely hinted at. First off, your hunch is correct: There's a guy in Thamasa who informs you 'bout Triangle Island (complete with cut-to-World-Map-and-slowly-pan-to-location sequence). He also mentions a monster on the island that "can suck up an entire ocean!" He then adds, "what do you think would happen if you allowed it to suck you up?"... or something along those lines.

Dunno 'bout anyone else, but that blabbermouth made my guideless search for Gogo quite devoid of any major problems.

Secondly, there's another guy in Nikeah who talks about awaking inside Doma Castle after the world shattered. He goes on to say how he was nearly attacked by demons each time he fell asleep - an obvious shout-out to go and hold a slumber party at Doma. I suppose it could still be considered 'accidental' to bring Cyan along, but since he's from Doma it comes off as the logical place to wrap up his storyline... doesn't it?

I'll agree that it's likely - very likely - one wouldn't figure out how to uncurse the Cursed Shield by in-game info alone. I mean, the required 256 battles is NEVER a task I look forward to, and I'm sure that the shield, after all these years, would still be cursed if I had to figure it out on my own.

I don't remember at the moment if any NPC ever touches on this next bit, but sniffing out the location of Duncan in order to get Sabin's Bum Rush is something I'd otherwise give up on. I'm aware we're informed he's alive, and I even think someone may state he's near Narshe, but a small, cross-shaped forest - no, more like a very sad orchard - doesn't register as "A HOUSE!" in my mind.

Although I suppose it's situations like that for which the characters possess not only legs, but the ability to use them for, among other things, seeking hidden areas.

Quote (tesco)

I had no problems with the game except tht in wob (World of Balance) theres an island with an invisible behemoth and if u hit him with magic then he'll appear but shortly after he uses meteo and killed me. so i just gave up on him and havent seen him since. anyone know wat u get from him if u beat him

Ten magic points a pop.

This post has been edited by SilverFork on 7th June 2006 15:57

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Words of Wisdom:

If something can go wrong, it will.

If anything simply cannot go wrong, it will anyway.

If there is a possibility of several things going wrong, the one that will cause the most damage will be the one to go wrong. - Murphy’s Law

Boing! Zoom! - Mr. Saturn

Yes! I knew it! Okay, I wasn't crazy.

Yeah, Doom his ass and rake in the AP.

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OSonic Rave
/ \Last Arcanum
[ ]Strike Raid
XRagnarok

Quote (tesco @ 7th June 2006 13:28)

I had no problems in the game except that in the WoB (World of Balance) there is an island with an invisible behemoth and if you hit him with magic then he'll appear, but shortly after he uses meteo and kills me.
So I just gave up on him and haven't seen him since.

Anyone know what you get from him if you beat him?

Sorry, but iffy grammer really tends to piss me off

Moderator Edit

And being a snarky little holier-than-thou jerk to someone who doesn't speak English as a first language pisses me off. -R51

Edit

Uh? I didn't mean any offence, and I didn't know he didn't speak it as a first language, sorry Tesco, I didn't know

Also, I can't do the Water Temple either, I only just beat Mirror Link

This post has been edited by Dark Paladin Danny on 7th June 2006 17:16

Water Temple? That's my favorite dungeon in OoT. Yes... I am a mental masochist, but once I figured it out without a guide I felt quite intelligent.

Personally, I'd agree that the Cursed Shield is about as obscure as the game gets. Everything else is at least hinted at to a degree.

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Don't tease the octopus kids!

Quote (silvermike @ 7th June 2006 09:54)

I think you're confusing the gnome and the tonberry, Caesar, Wild Halcyon and I only posted once each.

Striker is hinted at, I'm fairly sure, but the 'wait for shadow' doesn't come up until after you turn down the first request to jump. So, 'accident' is an acceptable answer, I suppose, but when you're hightailing it through a timed encounter, and the ground is about to fall apart and the world's about to explode, and you spot the airship, there's gotta be more saying 'don't jump' before you already, well, don't jump.

Wooooooooooooow. That is the last time I try to post while doing an English paper in a bad mood late at night. Haha. Sorry for the misunderstanding and confusion. Who would've thunk that Tonberry and Gnome could look so alike?

Ok, so after having thoroughly confused myself and likely others in this thread, I hereby have nothing left to contribute here. Happy posting!

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Is PJ

Quote (Zeromus_X @ 6th June 2006 21:43)

I think after awhile in the fight with Vargas, a message pops up telling you how to do it. But I read the manual, so I already knew hoe to do it, so I could be wrong. But yeah, I've always wondered about that.

I guess I liked reading the manuals when I was a kid, then.

Can anyone confirm that the game actually tells you to do this? I've also wondered how people would know to do the pummel if they didnt read the manual. It's impoosible to proceed without it.

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I'VE HAD AN ETERNITY TO PONDER THE MEANING OF THINGS. AND NOW I HAVE AN ANSWER...

Just played through this yesterday (unrelated to this topic).


The following is true for the PS Anthologies version: After Vargas has hit you about three times and you've hit him at least twice, Sabin realizes he has to use his best technique so far on him. The text pops up on how to do the blitz pummel "left right left." It goes through it a good four times so that you get the idea.

Quote (The Guitar Slayer @ 7th June 2006 16:46)

After Vargas has hit you about three times and you've hit him at least twice, Sabin realizes he has to use his best technique so far on him. The text pops up on how to do the blitz pummel "left right left." It goes through it a good four times so that you get the idea.

The SNES version also tells the player to do Pummel, also via a text message.

It's not much of a puzzle, but given how many people seem to have trouble with this part of the game, it might as well go in the "confusing gameplay aspects" category, along with "what the heck do I do with Intangir?" and the like.

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You are definately told to use Pummel

I don't even know where the Cursed Shield is

The only one I agree with is the Cursed Shld; I don't think there is any hint that you must fight with it to uncurse it. All the others have some hint. Sure, some of the hints are vague, but still... I mean, that's the "adventuring" part of it.

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Food is like magic in my ears. - Djibriel
Ogopogo lives.

Yeah, I'm taking back the 'impossible' part for Hidon - at some point, you should realize that taking characters home has some effect. If you stumble across one of the combinations (Edgar and Sabin in Figaro, Cyan in Doma, Gau at his father's) you should start picking up on something...

This is to say there really aren't enough hometowns in this game: Whence Locke, Celes, Setzer, Shadow?

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I hear the jury's still out on...science.

That's it, you people have stood in my way long enough! I'm going to clown college!

Well Locke's...I wouldn't say hometown, but his event town is Kohlingen...it may very well be his home, but anyway, back on topic.

The whole cursed shield thing...I totally agree. And honestly, how many of us really knew EXACTLY what to do to get Umaro? Ragnarok was hinted at, if vaguely...there are a couple, but most of them were tipped off.

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I was a soldier, now I just play one in video games.

Actually, I perfer to have a few secrets that aren't hinted at at all.

For instance, the Pink Tails in FF4. I don't believe that they tell you to collect a storeroom full of sirens and use them in a room in the last dungeon until you get an item with a 1/255 drop rate...

Some things are simply meant to be found on accident.

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"A little tight, but the price was right" - Locke
"Oh, what a Fuddy Duddy" - Relm
"..." - Shadow
"I'm a General, not some love starved twit" - Celes
"Although Edgar showers his attention on the ladies, most are smart enough to pay him no attention. Oh! King Edgar!" - Figaro Castle Inn Attendant

Quote

In your latter post, though, I think I understand what you're getting at. An "impossible puzzle" is something that is mandatory to continue, yet just extremely difficult to solve. That would seem to make more sense, but it isn't reflected in any of the examples except the Water Temple (I was stuck there for ages, too).

For me this was something i descovered by accident, i never saw the

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

switch that is revealed after you raise the water level

I found it by falling in when I had the Iron boots on.

in FFVI I'd definatley say the cursed shield is given no hints whatsoever. When I first got it I remember thinking WTF?.

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"Have you ever seen a baby do that before?"