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Just wanted to know your opinion on this, I think the way Setzer was portrayed totally sucked. He asked Roxas to lose a battle he had with him for him, what the crap?? And they didn't make him look cool at all which sucked. I was really dissapointed XD as you can tell cuz I made a post about how Square destroyed my image of Setzer, and his voice just sucks. What'd you think you few who played it which I'm sure can't be that many.

And I'm sure Nomura will be able to exactly mimic his FFVI design. C'mon, deal with it. He has spiky hair, now the world's going to explode.

Anyway, I like Setzer no matter what he looks like, he's that awesome. And it totally kicks ass that him and Vivi are in KHII. Maybe if there's another Kingdom Hearts, there might be even more Amano characters. (Seeing as how Nomura has to run out of his own characters eventually.. )

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I was mostly mad when Setzer asked Roxas if he would lose for him, I was just like NO THAT IS NOT SETZER. Not that Setzer was an honorable man necessarily but they didn't make him look in the light I would like to imagine him in. Bwah, but you're playing the game I assume?? How you liking it so far, I just finished the first world, the Mulan one I mean.

As somebody who would like to see the KH series blown off the face of the planet, I'm mildly pissed that Nomura is tossing in Amano's masterpieces and trashing them. Hell, I'm pissed that he's throwing ANY Final Fantasy characters into Disney. Personally, I think that KH can only bring down the reputation of any character it imports.

To quote George Carlin:

F*$k Mickey Mouse.

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If you've been mod-o-fied,
It's an illusion, and you're in-between.
Don't you be tarot-fied,
It's just alot of nothing, so what can it mean?
~Frank Zappa

Sins exist only for people who are on the Way or approaching the Way

Quote (MogMaster @ 31st March 2006 21:37)

As somebody who would like to see the KH series blown off the face of the planet, I'm mildly pissed that Nomura is tossing in Amano's masterpieces and trashing them. Hell, I'm pissed that he's throwing ANY Final Fantasy characters into Disney.  Personally, I think that KH can only bring down the reputation of any character it imports.

To quote George Carlin:

F*$k Mickey Mouse.

you're retarded

Moderator Edit

You're warned. - Hanyou

This post has been edited by Hanyou on 1st April 2006 21:36

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.::You think a minor thing like the end of the world is gonna do me in? -- Sabin::.

.::What I have shown you is reality. What you remember... that is the illusion. - Sephiroth ::.

.::A pro isn't someone who sacrifices themselves for a job. That's just a fool. - Reno::.

I am beggining to feel that Kingdom Hearts should be cleansed. Wrecking characters who never were highly rated is fine, but when you start ruining Setzer and Vivi, it's time for a little of the old ultraviolence.

Hell, in my veiw, they even ruined some of the Disney characters.

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"Only the dead have seen the end of their quotes being misattributed to Plato."
-George Santayana

"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here..."
-Abraham Lincoln, prior to the discovery of Irony.

So how did they ruin the characters? Vivi's hat is different, and Setzer is bishounen. Not that much of a difference, although Setzer was a little more grotesque before, this is just Nomura's style. I don't see how they 'ruined' anything.

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XRagnarok

Quote (Zeromus_X @ 1st April 2006 09:57)

So how did they ruin the characters? Vivi's hat is different, and Setzer is bishounen. Not that much of a difference, although Setzer was a little more grotesque before, this is just Nomura's style. I don't see how they 'ruined' anything.

I prefer male characters not to be wearing lipstick and eyeliner.

The context the insult is used in is key to the power of offence. In this case, they have made Setzer a deliberate loser, as well as turned him from a 27 year old man, into what? A bishie arsehole. That to me, destroys the character. Bishie means in short, some effeminate meterosexual moron who has OD'ed on estrogen. Setzer's meant to be a rough around the edges gambling rouge, not some reject from a group of Ladyboys with a purse.

And what did they do to Vivi? Simple. Put him in league with Seifer and Co. His two hangers-on are morons who should be eliminated and whilst Seifer's original character was the best of a bad bunch in a godawful game, the KH2 character will inevitably be a 14 year old cliche chavesque pain. And he is. A little tracksuit-wearing, beanie hat council housed and (thinks he is) "violent" bastard. Ye gods...

Making Vivi look up to chav scum is a travesty. Nomura's very style is a travesty. Thus, ruined. EVERYTHING of value has been destroyed.


What is wrong with men being men again? Not some bloody pretty boys. If you're gonna have long hair, don't shave.



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"Only the dead have seen the end of their quotes being misattributed to Plato."
-George Santayana

"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here..."
-Abraham Lincoln, prior to the discovery of Irony.

It's definatly not the same Setzer I had come to love in FFVI, that's for sure.
Setzer was a scared up, wild and free sort of caution to the wind character who was more interested in the risk of something than the actual outcome itself, or at least, that's how I understood him.

KHII downplays him a little, makes him seem cheap and takes away one of his most charactertic physical traits. I don't care about changing someone's hair or making them look like a girl, but if his face is supposed to be scarred to hell and back, that's something important than can add or take away character to the person, make damn sure you don't take it out!

I think I would've prefered him staying in FFVI, though I appreciate them using him rather than another ridiculous FF7-8-X cameo.

I offically want to murder Yuna, Rikku and Paine, revive them and murder them again.

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Okay, but there was a goat!

Ok... I can understand why you are all upset but, at the same time we all have to understand that the Final Fantasy series and the Kingdom hearts games are from Japan so they are made more to appeal to the Japanese people. Now if there is one thing I've learned in being in the business of hair,nails and makeup it's that every Japanese client I have run into is very high into fasion and the majority are perfectionists that lean more towards the style that the Setzer from Kingdom Hearts gives us a look at (don't take it as though I'm saying all Japanese people are like this). I think that Tetsuya as a decently young Japanese male sees what other younger Japanese gamers of this generation are looking for. When the Setzer in FF6 was created it was for a different generation and I think that he made changes to adapt to the new croud. Like I said the Japanese are a very fashionable race that are into what they do and are very picky about it at that and on top of all of it Japan is where the real money is for Square Enix and lets face it, money is above all in this world and even more so in a country where the cost of living is higher than all others (Japan). I can't say I would have done any different if I were put in his place.

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Climhazzard is the timeless evil robot who runs some of the cool stuff at CoN (mostly logging chat, since there are no quizzes at the moment), all the while watching and waiting for his moment to take over the world. -Tiddles

I think we already knew it's all about the money, and in the name of the almighty Yen, Square-Enix have become so mercenary as to do anything for money.

But you really think telling us it's fashion-related and cash-related would pacify us? That he was made for a different generation? That generation is still here. That generation is mildly annoyed. This individual does not like the fact that money is everything. This individual doesn't believe in fashion, and this individual has been ever more tired with the wave of same, same, same.

Sorry, but that would simply make me more angry at this had I not known those were the motiviations. Changing things for the leet generation to understand is something I vehemently oppose. Be it translation of Shakespeare to txt, dumbing down of television, or reworking a character into something they'd handle better, as far as I'm concerned, it's a crime. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Edit

In an case of what can only be called irony, Amano apparently REdesigned Setzer from Nomura's idea. Meaning it was broke, was fixed, and has been broken again.

This post has been edited by Del S on 3rd April 2006 12:35

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"Only the dead have seen the end of their quotes being misattributed to Plato."
-George Santayana

"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here..."
-Abraham Lincoln, prior to the discovery of Irony.

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Mogmaster Wrote:  As somebody who would like to see the KH series blown off the face of the planet, I'm mildly pissed that Nomura is tossing in Amano's masterpieces and trashing them. Hell, I'm pissed that he's throwing ANY Final Fantasy characters into Disney. Personally, I think that KH can only bring down the reputation of any character it imports.

Agree 100%.

This series is a sellout. Del-S hit the monkey right between the eyes when he said it's all about the money. These two franchises are good standalones, but together.... they make a Frankenstein-ian monstrosity of a game.

It's like taking your favorite vegetable and mixing it with your favorite ice cream. Both are good seperate, but together they suck.



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~Pacifist Badge, 1978

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In an case of what can only be called irony, Amano apparently REdesigned Setzer from Nomura's idea. Meaning it was broke, was fixed, and has been broken again.

Where? I'd have a hard time believing Amano would redesign one of his characters from a Nomura design, so I can't believe you unless you show me something at least.

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In my opinion, it all went downhill the second they decided to give the characters hip celebrity voices. >_>

It's really such a sad thing... When all the other little girls my age were outside playing with dolls or whatnot, I was in the basement with my three brothers playing Final Fantasy games (mostly IV, V, and VI). I remember my dream when I was little was to dress up as Celes and perform the entire Aria de Mezzo Carattere.
In all honesty, though, Final Fantasy taught me how to feel. And now here I am, a fourteen-year-old girl who can actually type right. There are still some scenes that make me cry even now...

o_O Or maybe I'm overly emotional?


Anyway, what I'm trying to get across is pretty much the same thing everyone else has already stated: Squeenix sucks. And for the sake of being on topic and loving Setzer a lot, I must say that when I first saw his Kingdom Hearts character design, my first thought was utter revolsion. It just looked so... un Setzer-like. I can't say anything else about it though because I haven't actually played the game yet (and personally, I'm not even sure if I want to or not). Anyway, I think that if there's nothing we commoners can do about it, then there's no point getting all upset. And I hate to branch out into a larger topic here, but I'm in a dramatic mood, so...


If the idea of a hot teen idol singing pop music in a Final Fantasy game seems downright wrong to you, just think about "Theme of Love" from IV. If you're confused and bothered as to why Aeris is wearing a purple belt with a freaking dress in the first KH, just remember how cool she used to be, and how sad you were when she died (HOPEFULLY you were sad), and if sometime in the future we come to find that Kingdom Hearts III features Kefka working alongside the Wicked Witch to kill the princess and be the fairest of them all, just remember that infinitly cool evil laugh. You know the one I'm talking about.


In short, the Final Fantasy series is like the living dead. It walks around and makes money for the almighty master Squeenix, but it feels nothing. Just be glad you all got a chance to expirience all the wonder that was once Final Fantasy. I'm still mad about turning Setzer into a freaking bish, though. >_< Believe me, I have -nothing- wrong with pretty boys, but Setzer was just never meant to be one.



o_O How's that for a first post? *Wanders off to post a bit more*


((PS: Yes, Setzer -was- originally Nomura's idea, but, if I remember correctly, he gave the credit to Amano.))

Kingdom Hearts isn't an FF game, or a Disney game. It's a Kingdom Hearts game. It just borrows characters from both franchises. I don't really understand why people seem to hate it so much, has anyone here even played through it? Or does everyone have to whine about how Disney is involved, or how their characters are different, to even give it a chance?

I know that Setzer is a different character, but so are all the other characters in the game. It's kinda like in comics, with different realities and such. (For lack of a better example.)

Anyway, I was dissapointed to not see Setzer use his dice and cards and other gambling paraphenalia (sp?) to fight against me, though I haven't gotten to the point where I may fight him again...

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XRagnarok

Like I said, I guess I can see why everyone is so upset but, I really don't think it's all that big of a deal. Things don't always stay the same. In todays world things have to change to keep up the time and I think that change is a good thing. It keeps things interesting that way and on top of that I think that it's kind of senseless for everyone to complain about something put in a game that most of you hate and will never play anyway. If you like Setzer from FF6 then play FF6 instead, but I think the first thing all of us should have learned by being part of this world is that if something is around long enough it's eventually going to change.

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Climhazzard is the timeless evil robot who runs some of the cool stuff at CoN (mostly logging chat, since there are no quizzes at the moment), all the while watching and waiting for his moment to take over the world. -Tiddles

Nice (or should that be slightly disgusting?) analogy there, Hamedo. Kind of reminds me of a moment in an episode of the simpsons.

"Nuts and gum, together at last"

In this case, the white male, age 18 to 49 who everyone listens to no matter how dumb the suggestion is, appears to be either victims of Umbrella's F-Virus (Fanboy virus, much like the T-Virus, creates mindless zombies driven by base instincts and when injected into a living game creates hideous monsters) or the bank balance.

Quote (Zeromus_X @ 4th April 2006 00:17)

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In an case of what can only be called irony, Amano apparently REdesigned Setzer from Nomura's idea. Meaning it was broke, was fixed, and has been broken again.

Where? I'd have a hard time believing Amano would redesign one of his characters from a Nomura design, so I can't believe you unless you show me something at least.

The claim is made here though it has no verification on the page, hence the inclusion of the phrase 'apparently' because one source a truth does not make. So, feel free to disbelieve it because as far as I'm concerned it's a rumour until proven.

Quote (Niveus @ 4th April 2006 01:18)

In my opinion, it all went downhill the second they decided to give the characters hip celebrity voices.  >_>

I wouldn't call them hip. Or celebreties in some cases. But Haley Joel Osmond should be crucified. Lance Bass wins kudos for making the Sephiroth fanboys and girls scream in terror when he was the perfect actor... effeminate, overrated by his fans, tries to look pretty, slightly nuts...

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and if sometime in the future we come to find that Kingdom Hearts III features Kefka working alongside the Wicked Witch to kill the princess and be the fairest of them all, just remember that infinitly cool evil laugh.  You know the one I'm talking about.

Ye gods, that's a fething nightmare..

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In short, the Final Fantasy series is like the living dead.  It walks around and makes money for the almighty master Squeenix, but it feels nothing. 

It's a zombie, eh? Well, we deal with zombies with shotguns, so lock and load, and rock and roll. Sorry, old chum, but it's terminal. The cancer of capitalist bishieness has spread.

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How's that for a first post? *Wanders off to post a bit more*

Better than mine. Better than my first five hundred posts actually.

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((PS: Yes, Setzer -was- originally Nomura's idea, but, if I remember correctly, he gave the credit to Amano.))

The Wiki claim says he was somehow involved at least.

Quote (Zeromus_X @ 4th April 2006 01:34)

Kingdom Hearts isn't an FF game, or a Disney game. It's a Kingdom Hearts game. It just borrows characters from both franchises. I don't really understand why people seem to hate it so much, has anyone here even played through it?  Or does everyone have to whine about how Disney is involved, or how their characters are different, to even give it a chance?

Well, the fact most of the game is set in disney settings, the fact the FF characters were there to attract people to buy it, the fact that it hasn't got the testicular fortitude to come out and say the enemy steal souls (Becuase I did not see one chest ripped open and no one still-beating organ removed, and how else do you steal the physical heart? The metaphorical heart would be the soul, so, they steal souls. )and the borrowing of characters is far too clumsy and changes people to be kid-friendly...

I gave it a chance. It had fifteen seconds to run. I admit I shot it in the back at 14.5, but the stupid thing stopped running early.

Played the first one BTW, got rapidly bored of the thing.

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I know that Setzer is a different character, but so are all the other characters in the game. It's kinda like in comics, with different realities and such. (For lack of a better example.)

Take anime as a paralell here. People go insane when they have a crap dub and change things in their favourite bizzarely-named japanese cartoon. What they often do is change characters, remove things from them to make them more kid-freidnly and people go ape as a result.

What's the difference, other than the ruination comes from the source rather than by-proxy?

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Anyway, I was dissapointed to not see Setzer use his dice and cards and other gambling paraphenalia (sp?) to fight against me, though I haven't gotten to the point where I may fight him again...

Owch, dude, way to kick a man while he is down. Have they left anything behind other than a mild resemblance? That's like making John Wayne use a water pistol...

Quote (Sephiroth @ 4th April 2006 06:35)

Things don't always stay the same. In todays world things have to change to keep up the time and I think that change is a good thing.

When the change is for the better and does not destroy the soul of something.There's no denying a supermarket has more to offer than a corner shop, but it's just not the same, is it? The staff treat you like a faceless entity, but in a corner shop, they would talk to you, say hi, knew your name. Things like this only change from outside influence.

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It keeps things interesting that way and on top of that I think that it's kind of senseless for everyone to complain about something put in a game that most of you hate and will never play anyway.

Most of us know we're never going to do anything complaining about the war in Iraq but we do it anyway. People just like to vent, that's all. And a lot of people have a lot of venting to do over Nomura's atrocities. A war against world opinion, one that was going to happen irregardles of WMD's or not, a... no, wait, that wasn't him. That was someone else.

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If you like Setzer from FF6 then play FF6 instead, but I think the first thing all of us should have learned by being part of this world is that if something is around long enough it's eventually going to change.

Unless there is no reason to change it, but in this world, people like to keep old and unworking ideas in play whilst changing things that work so they are broken. Nomura had no valid reason to change Setzer so much other than money.

Anyway, I think perhaps I may be dragging this kicking and screaming away from relevance so it'd probably be better if any points to make against what I've said here were taken to PM.

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"Only the dead have seen the end of their quotes being misattributed to Plato."
-George Santayana

"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here..."
-Abraham Lincoln, prior to the discovery of Irony.

Quote (Dragon_Fire @ 3rd April 2006 02:42)

KHII downplays him a little, makes him seem cheap and takes away one of his most charactertic physical traits. I don't care about changing someone's hair or making them look like a girl, but if his face is supposed to be scarred to hell and back, that's something important than can add or take away character to the person, make damn sure you don't take it out!

Uh... KH Setzer is scarred up. Admittedly, when I first saw the Famitsu scan, I was angry 'cause it DID look as though his facial scars were missing. But, upon seeing him close-up in the game, I noticed they're indeed right where they should be.

Problem is - which could also be attributed to Nomura's visual neglect - is that Setzer's supposed to be albino ('nother one of those "li'l known facts", like the one 'bout his scars being the result of an airship crash. I'm fairly certain they had a similar source). Regardless of whether that's true, the guy's lily-white. Without his skin as pale in KHII, his scars are a bit hard to see.

Anyhoo, with a few minor faults aside, I don't really mind Setzer's KHII appearance. I mean, the guy still looks close enough to himself, and let's face it, that's also as close as Nomura's ever gonna get to recreating the real deal dude using his particular - and personally tired-out - style.

As for the character's new personality, I scoff at it! Sure, throw a few references to gambling and coin tossing and the fans will eat it up, right? What's very sad is they may have thought just that. Granted, the item you get for "throwing the match" is, in my opinion, better than what you get for actually winning, but the point is moot. Setzer wouldn't throw away a challenge like that.... 'less of course he was the favorite for the match (obviously those fangirls in the game thought so) and did it all to win the bet, which would make copious amounts of sense and would even reestablish some sanity. Then again, it's not like we had to suffer through a thirty minute monologue spiel all 'bout it, and you know they woulda tacked one of those on, too.

Can't say much more 'bout Vivi that hasn't already been said. He's an awesome character who really shouldn't be hanging around Twilight Town's own Entourage of Losers.

Quote (Niveus)

I'm still mad about turning Setzer into a freaking bish, though. Believe me, I have -nothing- wrong with pretty boys, but Setzer was just never meant to be one.

Actually, this isn't the first time he's looked like a girly boy bishie. Those FMVs in the PSX version depict him as one helluva pretty man, in my opinion. And those character models are all based directly off Amano's drawings. If ya ask me, that is what he's supposed to look like, it's just that Nomura can't quite cut it. It might be all that makeup...

But, y'know, I've had ill feelings towards this game for a while, so I'm glad I only rented it for the meantime. Somehow, maybe some forboding instinct, but I have a strange feeling that very soon I'll be up to my eyeballs in absolutely every FF character I can't stand and every Disney character I can't stand. In other words, while the first KH was enjoyable, this one seems to have taken these so-called "cameos" much too freakin' far, as that term has apparently evolved into one meaning "to have recurring roles o' importance." Pfffffttt!!

To tell the truth I'm only at the second world, Beast's Castle, and I'm already losing interest, but for only 1/4 of the above reasons.

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If something can go wrong, it will.

If anything simply cannot go wrong, it will anyway.

If there is a possibility of several things going wrong, the one that will cause the most damage will be the one to go wrong. - Murphy’s Law

Boing! Zoom! - Mr. Saturn

Anyways, I won't feign ignorance just because there's something of a majority ruling on Setzer's KH debut. I'm rather fond of how they pulled him off in this game, even if he was a bit of a pushover in the Struggle's bout. Did he come off as somewhat effeminate? Probably. But then, he appeared as something of an effeminate character to begin with. And I think Sephiroth touched on it best when he said that the KH Setzer was taylored specially for the next-gen crowd. A few of the gambler's details were bound to reflect that.

As for Setzer meant to be albino, well, Squeenix may have well decided to flesh out field-sprite Setzer over Amano Setzer simply because it's the one we see on a regular basis in the game. Something fans of FFVI could more readily connect with. But yes, his scars were definitely there.

I don't care. I'm enjoying the game, and thoroughly enjoyed Setzer's debut. It's good that for once, the company isn't turning a blind eye to what it is old school gamers want to see.

This post has been edited by Lothar Goldfist on 6th April 2006 17:08

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You are not your username. You are not your avatar. You are not the number of posts you have. You're not your signature. You are the all-typing, all-chatting crap of the Web. --Friend of a Friend

I'm just upset that Setzer wasn't given a bigger role. I heard he was only thrown in becasue "fans wanted him," of course, that's the FFX and FFVII hippies talking. They chased me out of their forum (the admin's avatar is of pop star Yuna.....). They said Nomura "didn't want to use Vivi and Setzer." Maybe Amano and Nomura can collaborate on KH3, heh.

I'm upset about what Nomura did to Amano's designs, but if we complain we'll never see Edgar or Kain in KH3. He did have some scars, but they were very faint, and weren't very tough looking. They look like Kid's "scars" from Chrono Cross.

Setzer and Vivi kick ass, and I'm more happy that they're in the game than what they look like. I personally wish there were more of them. I'm planning on renting KH2 this summer just to see these two. It's a shame that their voice actors aren't put in with the featured cast, though. (Tifa and YuRiPa, who also have minor roles, have featured voices).

Let's face it. We're not going to get our favorite designs. The FFVII/X fanboys and fangirls seem to have a monopoly on designs. You don't like it, I don't like it, but it's the unfortunate reality.

I DO want to see something new from the FFVI world, as there have been four FFVII spinoffs. It's a shame that Square won't listen to a vocal group of fans. I'd like to see a prequel to FFVI with a playable Kefka. Now THAT would be cool.

Speaking of Kefka, if I see Seymour or Ultimecia in KH3 with no Kefka, that's just plain wrong. -CSM

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Quote (Crazyswordsman)

Setzer and Vivi kick ass, and I'm more happy that they're in the game than what they look like. I personally wish there were more of them. I'm planning on renting KH2 this summer just to see these two. It's a shame that their voice actors aren't put in with the featured cast, though. (Tifa and YuRiPa, who also have minor roles, have featured voices).

Actually, Setzer and Vivi do have speaking roles, unless you're talking about something else. Tifa and YuRiPa have a bigger appearance, but all of the FF characters are important, it's not like Setzer and Vivi are shunned

Totally agree with you there. I think a real fan wouldn't complain about superficial things like appearance, especially if it's not even that big a change.

And of course more Nomura characters are being used, he's the character designer. And director of course.

Really, there is little to no difference in designs, other than Setzer has a bit spikier hair and those sparkly Anime eyes. It's not even that big of a deal, at all.

This post has been edited by Zeromus_X on 7th April 2006 03:16

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[ ]Strike Raid
XRagnarok

I've seen a picture of Setzer from KH2 and while he's not as bad as you lot make him sound, he's not as appealing as he used to be. I haven't, and will probably never have, played Kingdom Hearts 1 or 2, but if they changed Setzer's personality too much, I'll be sad. From what I've read in this thread, it kinda sounds like they have?

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Come with me so I can show you how to live
Burning the candle at both ends
I’m gripping at the walls around me
Don’t complicate it
I’m addicted to this life
I’ll be your token of attention
All my lies come down to this
-Orgy, "Beautiful Disgrace"

hmm... you know he doesn't look that bad... his clothing is a little bit gay, isn't it?
And he doesn't look like "a blackjack-playing, world-traveling, casino-dwelling free spirit..."



This post has been edited by ziegfried on 7th April 2006 17:48

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They may be monsters, but they're sea monsters. What're they gonna do? Flop around on deck and suffocate at us threateningly?

guess what's messed up?

according to wikipedia, nomura was involved "in the creation of popular characters Shadow and Setzer Gabbiani for Final Fantasy VI, which were both redesigned by Amano for the game itself."

so setzer is really nomura's, anyway. i've never found amano to be a particularly effective character artist; his usage of colour especially has always shown him in my eyes to be a sub-par choice for "main character artist," or whatever his title was. now, i grant that he has an incredibly original and imaginative style that i've never seen anyone effectively emulate (can you take that much acid?), but when it comes down to it, the *costumes* he gives his characters (not to mention their faces...wanna talk about nomura's cahracters "all look alike," go look at amano's art and see if you can tell the difference between locke's face and celes') are really pretty run-of-the-mill, for the most part.

that being said, he still did a good job with ff4-6 (ff6 in particular showcases some of his best hand art), and while he's probably better suited to drawing manga in his original style, there's nothing especially wrong with the work he did in those games, and i appreciate him for his efforts.

as far as character design is concerned, ff6 setzer looks impeccable -- way better than that cube-man of a cg that was in the intro to ff6 ps2 re-release. someone in this thread said something about "throw the match" is very much not setzer, and i'll have to agree i didn't really care for either his extremely minor role or the fact that he wanted to win without really winning; neither seemed to suit him. however, his character design was great, and i'll have to say setzer has never looked better in-game. i'm not really a fan of the "nomura spikes," but can't nomura do what the hell he wants with *his own cahracter* without being jumped on by you rabid old-school elitists?

Quote (Zeromus_X @ 1st April 2006 03:57)

So how did they ruin the characters? Vivi's hat is different, and Setzer is bishounen. Not that much of a difference, although Setzer was a little more grotesque before, this is just Nomura's style. I don't see how they 'ruined' anything.

I still have'nt played the game yet <too much money > But i have seen setzer in KH2 and i belive he was more bishounen in ff6 than KH2.

But, that's just my opinon.

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I disagree. Amano's art tends to be more old-fashioned Japanese (like feudal Japan style) than Nomura or any modern Japanese artists. Amano does artwork not only for games, but also illustrates for independent novels (He can do so because he's a freelance), and often showcases his work in galleries (something I have yet to see any other Japanese artist do). This just shows you how majestic his work is.

It's just that Amano's designs look more realistic to me. Look at Nomura's designs, particularly his FFX designs, and tell me those are realistic (His FFVII designs are better, but still not up to par with Amano). Amano's art, particularly Locke and Sabin, jump to me as being very realistic. -CSM

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I still want a source where it can be confirmed that Nomura first created these characters. I have never heard it mentioned before, and I'm not going to trust one line in Wikipedia for that. And no, Amano will not just redesign his characters because someone else drew them a different way.

The only bishie Amano Setzer I can think of is the one where he's lying down on the sofa thing of the Blackjack, the rest are pretty grotesque looking. (Scars, what-not.)




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Amano sucks. I'm being honest here. His styles in character design can be really good SOMETIMES and most of the time they just suck. FFIV-FFVI were really screwed up and the quality on some character art turned out terrible. His sketches often turn out messy and it's hard to tell the parts and bits.

He doesn't suck at watercolor, but like I said his character styles suck. Why does he mostly draw blonde women and men with girly black lips? People just won't admit that Tetsuya can draw better even if his male drawings have a girly look to them or are very scrawny. Amano was no exception, either. He did draw scawny characters, awful hips, given guys girly blackberry lips. The only version I liked from Amano was FF1. God, those battle scenes were amazing. I loved the quality and coloring of them. FF2 and FF3 they were ok and bad too.

And also Tetsuya Nomura has better color choices than Amano.

Now, this is getting out of topic, so it's time to stop here. And yes, please show proof that Tetsuya made Setzer and Shadow so I can prove irresistable Amano fans wrong.

Yes, Amano has a very (and I do mean very) sketchy art style. It's an acquired taste. And every girl will be blonde, and wear very little clothing, while every male will be pasty white with black lip-gloss. So it's definitely an acquired taste, for sure.

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Better color choices? That's Amano's choosing. Nomura chooses juvenille colors in his non-FFVII designs. I'll admit the FFIV designs were a little one-colored, but the FFVI ones just jump off the page at me.

At least Amano's art doesn't have spikey hair. There's only one character I can think of that spikey hair did not ruin, and that's Crono (who was drawn by Akiro Toshiba or whoever). Honestly, spikey hair is an instant no-no for me. especially when Nomura does it, and he does it on most, if not ALL, his characters. Amano, meanwhile, does much nicer, smoother hair.

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Yes, Amano has a very (and I do mean very) sketchy art style. It's an acquired taste. And every girl will be blonde, and wear very little clothing, while every male will be pasty white with black lip-gloss. So it's definitely an acquired taste, for sure.

And it just so happened in the reverse for me. Amano = Final Fantasy design. I played his games before Nomuras. In fact, when I first saw Nomura's designs, I was very upset and didn't know what was going on. -CSM

This post has been edited by Crazyswordsman on 28th April 2006 01:29

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