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Remember when Celes and Sabin enter the Figaro Cave in WOR, they are greated by Ziegfried?

He tells them to wait outside until he clears out the monsters.....why???

Also, he follows Edgar and the thieves into Figaro castle....why??

What's the point of this tiny plot? it makes no sense to me.

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I'VE HAD AN ETERNITY TO PONDER THE MEANING OF THINGS. AND NOW I HAVE AN ANSWER...

I've always assumed that he's after "the treasure", sees you following, and tells you to wait in hopes that you'll be gullible and actually sit there and wait. :-) Otherwise, I'm not sure why he's there. It's just a side thing.

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I had an old signature. Now I've changed it.

I thought, for a time, that he'd end up joining you.

I never did like running into him- on the Phantom Train or in the Figaro Cave. Why make a character that could have been a cool villanesque type (i.e. Ultros) and only have him show up twice?

He's the fake Siegfried, among fans called Ziegfried, who uses Siegfried's fame to boast his way into cheap treasure. When you disobey him, you'll come across several empty treasure chests he looted; the thieves themselves are too busy with Figaro's treasure which is waiting for them and you find him looting one if you find the kinda hidden location where he's at.


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The Collapse of Heaven and Earth

I thought the Zeigfried in the cave is the real one, I know the one on the train is fake, though. He definitely would've recognized Sabin, no? And he acted very differently in the cave than the faker on the train.

Why Zeigfried is in the game is beyond me, he reminds me a lot of Shadow and so I was under the impression he might be

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

the man Clyde Arrowny (Shadow) refused to kill

.

Of course, you cannot visit the Collisseum until after you get the airship, so to say that the cave Zeigfried is fake cannot be proved.

This post has been edited by Shadow's Shadow on 29th July 2005 06:06

I dunno how it can be said he acts differently than the Ziegfried on the Phantom Train; after all, he's going through the caves stealing treasure, just like the fake one. If you catch him in the caves looting that one chest, he'll freak out and run off with the treasure, which is a definite quality of the imposter. He also doesn't recognize Sabin ‘cause you don't even have to have Sabin with you when you go through the cave. Heck, Sabin doesn't even seem to recognize Edgar when you're chasing him from Nikeah to the castle - only Celes does 'cause she's the only one you're required to have. They somehow forgot to take Sabin into consideration and add any dialogue for his presence throughout those events.

There's really no reason to think he isn't the fake, as I'm 100% certain his whole purpose there was for the player acknowledge Ziegfried again (since Siegfried talks about someone out there pretending to be him, it makes since to run across the imposter more than once rather than just one time near the beginning of the game, where people are likely to forget about him altogether).

And about him being Baram

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

...well, Baram's dead - that we do know. The thing was that Baram was fatally wounded anyway, he just wanted Clyde to off him there before their pursuers caught up. The game heavily indicates he died as well.

If he somehow miraculously was revived and decided, for no apparent reason, to dress up as Siegfried, you'd think the game would at least give a minor hint at that. Just 'cause Ziegfried's a thief (and a bad one, at that. Baram was at least a professional) doesn't mean they're one in the same. By that logic, he could really be Locke for all we know.

I agree with Elena as to his reasons in the cave. As for why the fake dude's in the game, he does help build up Siegfried's significance. Throughout the game you're lead to believe he's just a wimpy escuse for a swordsman, but once you encouter the real Siegfried in the Colesseum he turns out to be quite possibly the most difficult enemy in the game. Or it could just be what something I read once dealing with RPG characters said: "Just because you're weird doesn't mean you're important."

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Words of Wisdom:

If something can go wrong, it will.

If anything simply cannot go wrong, it will anyway.

If there is a possibility of several things going wrong, the one that will cause the most damage will be the one to go wrong. - Murphy’s Law

Boing! Zoom! - Mr. Saturn

I totally don't understand Siegfried's purpose in the game in general, so I have no idea. Maybe he's there to add, um, flavor?

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Some ghost of me might greet my son
the day he is delivered.


Eternal Sleep, Track 1-1: The Blue Planet

Quote (SilverFork @ 29th July 2005 05:49)

As for why the fake dude's in the game, he does help build up Siegfried's significance. Throughout the game you're lead to believe he's just a wimpy escuse for a swordsman, but once you encouter the real Siegfried in the Colesseum he turns out to be quite possibly the most difficult enemy in the game.

I think you hit the nail on the head in that one. I didn't really understand all the imposter nonsense myself until I came across siegfried in the colliseum the first time and thought it would be an easy fight. Then I was all like "Oh, my giddy aunt!"

Then I died.

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"That Light has bestowed upon me the greatest black magic!"

It'd be a really stupid move for a developper to create as important a plot twist as bringing backto life a lost character (say, Daryll) and making them into another character (say, Gogo) but not even dropping so much as a tiny hint about it. Speculation is all fine and well, but without in-game proof to back it up it just remains speculation and thus is almost certainly wrong.

I forgot if the game made a distinction between the two names during events, but if so then that pretty much settles the issue. Otherwise, let's face it: we don't know anything about this guy. Maybe the real Siegfried is a lowly thief (despite being a skilled fighter), or maybe it's the fake (who probably forgot the face of what was most likely one of many, many opponents fought over a year ago. There's also the very likely possibility that Square's logic is flawed; the story is not perfect on all accounts and if it's anything like the underlaying code, it has its share of horrible messes.)

At this point all's we can do is speculate and either reach a conclusion of our own or disagree on multiple conclusions. Either way, the game doesn't hold the answer as both Zieg/Sieg sprites are the same and use the same palette, and you don't get to fight the cave one.

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

Siegfried...


is from...


...THE MOON! He secretly helped out Cecil and co. when they battled Zeromus in the SNES U.S. version, THAT'S why he's so much easier! (shore whished he was there in the hardtype...)

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The island bathes in the sun's bright rays
Distant hills wear a shroud of grey
A lonely breeze whispers in the trees
Sole witness to history

ICO-You were there-

He is surely the fake Siegfried. He's a thief of thieves maybe. The only thing for sure, its the fact that he steal treasure, and coincidentally is seeking Figaro treasure. What happened to him after that is the true mistery.

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"Its no cheating if you don't get caught"

Quote (Silverlance)

I forgot if the game made a distinction between the two names during events, but if so then that pretty much settles the issue.

Confusingly, the imposter's only ever called Ziegfried, for some reason, during the battle on the train. People just call him that to differentiate between the two. In the Japanese game they're both called Siegfried all the time, though.

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Words of Wisdom:

If something can go wrong, it will.

If anything simply cannot go wrong, it will anyway.

If there is a possibility of several things going wrong, the one that will cause the most damage will be the one to go wrong. - Murphy’s Law

Boing! Zoom! - Mr. Saturn

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that they were both supposed to have the same name the whole time, 'cause if you're trying to impersonate someone, why would you alter the name?

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The island bathes in the sun's bright rays
Distant hills wear a shroud of grey
A lonely breeze whispers in the trees
Sole witness to history

ICO-You were there-

For the same reason he claims he has great swordsmanship and in truth carries around a gun...?

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"A little tight, but the price was right" - Locke
"Oh, what a Fuddy Duddy" - Relm
"..." - Shadow
"I'm a General, not some love starved twit" - Celes
"Although Edgar showers his attention on the ladies, most are smart enough to pay him no attention. Oh! King Edgar!" - Figaro Castle Inn Attendant

This is a bit off topic, but its not worth starting a new thread: How do you fight the real siegfried? I have never heard of that before.

Also, I have never encountered him running away from the treasure chest in the caves. Is it a room I had not visited, or is it a matter of time?



This post has been edited by Blue Wizard on 31st July 2005 01:24

Quote (Blue Wizard @ 30th July 2005 20:24)

This is a bit off topic, but its not worth starting a new thread: How do you fight the real siegfried? I have never heard of that before.

To fight the real Siegfried:

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

Wager a Megalixir at the Coliseum.

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I know I've been Final Fantasy XII too long - just the other day I referred to a region with no cell service as a Jagd!

What happens if you beat the real Siegfried?

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John: So you don't want your screen saver to come on for another four hours?
Me: Where does it say that?
John: Here where it was 240 minutes.
Me: Is that four hours?
John: Yeah, 60 X 4.
Me: Is that four hours, though?
John: ....They'll never take you back in school.

xD;

I think you get a Tintinabar or a Rename Card (I think Rename Card is for Elixir only) but I forgot. I had to level someone up to level 99 and increase his speed by leveling up with Odin magicite increasing speed. Gave him X-Fight+Gengi Glove with Illumina and Atma Weap and thats how you beat him. Be weary of Hyperdrive and Shrapenel.

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Who is Byblos?

You need to wager a MegaElixer (you get that from the Magemaster) and you get a Tintinabar if you actually beat zeigfried.

I think it's a pretty stupid wager cause the tintinabar is a useless relic (just cure your party normally and you'll be fine). The megaelixer can really save you in important battles.

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I'VE HAD AN ETERNITY TO PONDER THE MEANING OF THINGS. AND NOW I HAVE AN ANSWER...

Perhaps the purpose of Seigfried in the game is to actually have there be OTHER adventurers in the game who aren't members of your party. Normally in RPGs if someone isn't in your party or is a villain, they're a farmer or peasant or king or something. Probably just adds to the epic environment of the game or something.

I would have liked Siegfried to be a party member. That would've been nice. I also wanted Kefka to turn good deep down inside. Even though he is - you know - insane? But, then I realized that Leo and Celes as traitors were enough. Too many empire-born rebels, y'know?

Siegfried would've been one worthless party member though ><
Like - Even more worthless than Cyan.

I would have liked also to see someone or something able to toggle Magitekarmor on certain characters... you know like *cough* Cid...

Cid, Siegfried, Leo, Ghost, Vicks, Wedge, Banon... All other party members I would've wanted to see in action against Kefka, but, Alas, they would have stupid specials that would be worth nothing ('cept Leo! )

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"A little tight, but the price was right" - Locke
"Oh, what a Fuddy Duddy" - Relm
"..." - Shadow
"I'm a General, not some love starved twit" - Celes
"Although Edgar showers his attention on the ladies, most are smart enough to pay him no attention. Oh! King Edgar!" - Figaro Castle Inn Attendant

howcome when you discover him in the corner he runs off, where does he go? i looked everywhere.

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"I will only return in this form when you're about to expire!" - Wrexsoul
Wrexsoul: "What do you mean, what kind of name is Wrexsoul? I WRECK PEOPLE'S SOULS YOU IDIOT!!!"

YOUR SOUL IS MINE!!!

Quote (SilverFork @ 29th July 2005 05:49)

By that logic, he could really be Locke for all we know.

I think we just solved the mystery.

Let's see, you first encounter Ziegfried on the Phantom Train, when Locke is conveniently in South Figaro. Then, when you encounter him in the WOR, Locke is conveniently in some star-shaped cave.

That's it! Locke was so greedy that he made up this lame fake persona to steal extra treasure! It's genius!

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Kupo!

that is most definitely a possiblity, and i can see why you would assume that, however i believe that this is unconfirmed data.

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"I will only return in this form when you're about to expire!" - Wrexsoul
Wrexsoul: "What do you mean, what kind of name is Wrexsoul? I WRECK PEOPLE'S SOULS YOU IDIOT!!!"

YOUR SOUL IS MINE!!!

Quote (adventchildren9999 @ 2nd August 2005 21:20)

however i believe that this is unconfirmed data.

What are you talking about? The proof is right there in black and white. Locke is Ziegfried. Alert the presses!

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"That Light has bestowed upon me the greatest black magic!"

I always thought it was a well-known theory that the Figaro Siegfried was Locke and that he was searching for the Pheonix Magicite in Figaro. Im not too sure where I picked it up but I have definately heard this before.
The theory goes that the first Siegfried you meet in Doma is the real one and the one at the colleseum is also the real one. The one you meet in the Figaro cave is deemed to be fake because he doesn't want to fight you, only 'clear' the cave out ahead. Also I remember someone mentioning that the language that Figaro Siegfried used was more akin to something Locke would say, and couple this with what the Siegfired at the colleseum says about someone impersonating him, you have a workable theory......
I spose' its putting 2&2 together but it seems more feasable than the 'Daryl is Gogo' theory anyways....

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Chrono Triggers rock super-group:

Ozzie - lead singer from Black Sabbath
Flea - Bassist from Red Hot Chilli Peppers
Slash - Guitarist from Guns 'n' Roses

He drinks and smokes his cares away
His heart is in the lonely way
Living in the ruins
Of a castle built on sand...

Tell The King - The Libertines

Guys, seriously, I was kidding. I was just using a silly, farfetched theory with absolutely no basis in response to another as an example. Please, please don't nurture that into a rumor.

Besides, everybody knows Locke stands in as one of Strago's left eyebrow hairs both times you comes across the fake Siegfried.

No, not really. Or does he...?

Edit

But to stay on topic, other than what I said before 'bout the phony making the real deal more of a surprise to fight, it DOES seem feasable that he's just simply there to be another thief/treasure hunter, like those guys in the Veldt cave and at the bottom of the fanatic's tower. He probably just uses Siegfried's name to enforce his über awesomeness and strike fear into the hearts of mankind random travelers...or something, since in reality he's just a shrimp.

This post has been edited by SilverFork on 3rd August 2005 13:54

--------------------

Words of Wisdom:

If something can go wrong, it will.

If anything simply cannot go wrong, it will anyway.

If there is a possibility of several things going wrong, the one that will cause the most damage will be the one to go wrong. - Murphy’s Law

Boing! Zoom! - Mr. Saturn

Quote

SilverFork Posted on 3rd August 2005 14:32
  Guys, seriously, I was kidding. I was just using a silly, farfetched theory with absolutely no basis in response to another as an example. Please, please don't nurture that into a rumor.

Besides, everybody knows Locke stands in as one of Strago's left eyebrow hairs both times you comes across the fake Siegfried.

No, not really. Or does he...? 

I don't want to sound like a rumour-monger or a know-it-all divv, its just not my style. I really have heard this rumour before, most likely from an edition of Super Play magazine which ran a FFVI section until its demise in 1996. But thinking about it, it doesn't amount to a hill of beans anyway. No-one is gonna get the Nobel prize for it, World leaders will not hold an emergency summit for it, the stock markets aint gonna crash because of it, and the EARTH WILL STILL SPIN!

This post has been edited by Dirk Diggler on 3rd August 2005 13:52

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Chrono Triggers rock super-group:

Ozzie - lead singer from Black Sabbath
Flea - Bassist from Red Hot Chilli Peppers
Slash - Guitarist from Guns 'n' Roses

He drinks and smokes his cares away
His heart is in the lonely way
Living in the ruins
Of a castle built on sand...

Tell The King - The Libertines

I think everyone is joking just as much as you were, Silverfork. And anyway, I've seen theories that Kefka is an Esper. I think the community is long past a point where nurturing rumors would make a difference anymore.

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Wilson: "That smugness of yours really is an attractive quality."
House: "Thank you. It was either that or get my hair highlighted. Smugness is easier to maintain."

Oh, I can tell who's kidding. It's the ones like adventchildren9999's post I'm not too sure about. There's just something really wet 'n' slimy about wandering into a topic and seeing someone argue for days on end 'bout how S/Ziegfried is Baram or how Terra has twelve fathers (I think Djibriel may be familiar with that last one).

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Words of Wisdom:

If something can go wrong, it will.

If anything simply cannot go wrong, it will anyway.

If there is a possibility of several things going wrong, the one that will cause the most damage will be the one to go wrong. - Murphy’s Law

Boing! Zoom! - Mr. Saturn