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I'm sure if you keep your characters at level one those later bosses won't do so much damge to you cuz they'll be level 1 also, or i don't even know the lowest level, and wha'ts wrong with ff7 gameplay?? It's better than FF8 for sure.

Well, the gameplay is the same as FFVII, ATB. Unless you're talking about the customization system.

There's more specifics than just 'being at level one', that would be impossible. (You'll definitely gain at least a little EXP throughout the game.) I believe that monsters stats change after level 30, and then again somewhere. Or below 30..

Well, I don't really know the specifics. But yeah, people do low level games to make things easier I'd guess, since Junctioning pretty much sets it up for you, and everything. Only the highest leveled monsters drop those really rare items, and only a few actually drop things that can't be made from Cards or GF Abilities, and the like.

Anyway, to comment on lack of armour, the Junction system takes care of anything that special effects in armour in other games would do. (Elemental absorbtion, status prevention, etc.) If we had armour with those effects in addition to the Junction System, then it'd be pretty broken, don't you think? (you can be pretty invincible as it is, with little effort.) Though I did miss Ribbons.

Anyway, I still think that people are overreacting with the whole "SeeD couldn't be a real military organization", and "Squall isn't a model soldier", because, well, they aren't . Not only is it a fantasy, but it's fiction. Everything's dramatized in fiction, of course. And it can't really be compared to real life either. That, and it's made in Japan, although I wouldn't know if Japanese culture would make any difference to how they see things in that kinda situation. Also, I don't belive Cid and Edea intended for SeeD to be a military organization (mercenary organization,) in the first place, although my memory on the specifics of this game's story isn't what it used to be. But yeah, they aren't a model of a real mercenary/military organization, but neither is a video game Certainly nothing to whine about.

That's really all I have to say for now. I just didn't like the extreme lack of kitties in this game




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OSonic Rave
/ \Last Arcanum
[ ]Strike Raid
XRagnarok

I'll give you this, most ppl flame ff8 more than it deserves to be flamed, but I never liked the game too much, I did enjoy the story at some points but ultimately it was kinda confusing and it seemed like there were many plot devices. I almost feel like the made the story as you went along with the game and were like HEY maybe we should do this instead of planning the whole story out before hand. That's just how I feel, but I could be wrong entirely. And drawing all those freaking magic things really pissed me off, I'd spend long periods of time drawing magic.

Quote (gronx7 @ 4th April 2006 20:27)

That's just how I feel, but I could be wrong entirely.

Naw mate, that's how I feel too. And I'm *never* wrong.

Seriously, people may bash FF8 more than it deserves, but it remains a game with a storyline that doesn't compare to most of the other FFs regardless...

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

Quote (Zeromus_X @ 5th April 2006 02:08)

Anyway, to comment on lack of armour, the Junction system takes care of anything that special effects in armour in other games would do. (Elemental absorbtion, status prevention, etc.) If we had armour with those effects in addition to the Junction System, then it'd be pretty broken, don't you think? (you can be pretty invincible as it is, with little effort.) Though I did miss Ribbons.

Wait, what armour did you think I meant? Body armour? I meant armour as in Armoured Fighting* Vehicles.

Only joking there, really, because Galbaldia's various robots could count for starters and it's really not very important in the long run. BODY Armour might have a replacement in the junction system but that means that as you attack, your defence goes down. That's not how it usually works at the small scale. As a result of junction, though, you were practically a walking bank by the end of disc 2 if you did it right.

Quote

Anyway, I still think that people are overreacting with the whole "SeeD couldn't be a real military organization", and "Squall isn't a model soldier", because, well, they aren't . Not only is it a fantasy, but it's fiction. Everything's dramatized in fiction, of course. And it can't really be compared to real life either. That, and it's made in Japan, although I wouldn't know if Japanese culture would make any difference to how they see things in that kinda situation. Also, I don't belive Cid and Edea intended for SeeD to be a military organization (mercenary organization,) in the first place, although my memory on the specifics of this game's story isn't what it used to be. But yeah, they aren't a model of a real mercenary/military organization, but neither is a video game Certainly nothing to whine about.

Yes, but fiction that does not belive in realism when it really should is the lowest form of fiction in my belief. The suspension of disbelief vital to enjoyment is killed by the shabby and unrealistic organisation that is SeeD. Would YOUR neighbourhood superpower tolerate a mercenary camp that had no alliegance but to money? No. The Gardens would have been craters long ago.

Incedentally, if they didn't intend it to be military but needed a cover, why'd they go for military when it has :
-no ranks to speak of
-no support staff
-VERY short ranged combat that is virtually useless in reality (Operation Nimrod would have been a win to the Iraqis inside the embassy had the SAS went in with huge swords, whips, nunchukas, fists, boomerang things and doubl barreled shotguns...)
-No artillery, anti-tank weaponry, or anything allowing a chance against armoured forces.
-little diversity in individual soldiers
-no air support
-extremely poor discipline and training.

And in the real world, Galbaldia could have torn them apart with a regiment of paratroopers and a few tanks?

In their defence, they have the right approach by not having buzz-cuts. Special Forces often let their hair grow longer to help them do the shady undercover stuff: In the 1980's people with mullets in northern ireland were either SAS or victims of fashion, but I doubt that was a deliberate act on the part of the designers.

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That's really all I have to say for now. I just didn't like the extreme lack of kitties in this game

It's lack of cats and overabundance of stupid fleabags was indeed annoying. There were some cats in Timber though. And there was Squall, who is a...

*Best. Tank. Ever.

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"Only the dead have seen the end of their quotes being misattributed to Plato."
-George Santayana

"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here..."
-Abraham Lincoln, prior to the discovery of Irony.

Great... someone had ot mention Adel, and now I must know WTF Adel is. I need to see the original japanese that refers to Adel, to be sure the gender-inclusive language itself says Adel is female. Until then, my opinion on FFVIII is delayed.

Quote (Del S @ 5th April 2006 06:01)

Quote (Zeromus_X @ 5th April 2006 02:08)

Anyway, to comment on lack of armour, the Junction system takes care of anything that special effects in armour in other games would do. (Elemental absorbtion, status prevention, etc.) If we had armour with those effects in addition to the Junction System, then it'd be pretty broken, don't you think? (you can be pretty invincible as it is, with little effort.) Though I did miss Ribbons.

Wait, what armour did you think I meant? Body armour? I meant armour as in Armoured Fighting* Vehicles.

Only joking there, really, because Galbaldia's various robots could count for starters and it's really not very important in the long run. BODY Armour might have a replacement in the junction system but that means that as you attack, your defence goes down. That's not how it usually works at the small scale. As a result of junction, though, you were practically a walking bank by the end of disc 2 if you did it right.

Quote

Anyway, I still think that people are overreacting with the whole "SeeD couldn't be a real military organization", and "Squall isn't a model soldier", because, well, they aren't . Not only is it a fantasy, but it's fiction. Everything's dramatized in fiction, of course. And it can't really be compared to real life either. That, and it's made in Japan, although I wouldn't know if Japanese culture would make any difference to how they see things in that kinda situation. Also, I don't belive Cid and Edea intended for SeeD to be a military organization (mercenary organization,) in the first place, although my memory on the specifics of this game's story isn't what it used to be. But yeah, they aren't a model of a real mercenary/military organization, but neither is a video game Certainly nothing to whine about.

Yes, but fiction that does not belive in realism when it really should is the lowest form of fiction in my belief. The suspension of disbelief vital to enjoyment is killed by the shabby and unrealistic organisation that is SeeD. Would YOUR neighbourhood superpower tolerate a mercenary camp that had no alliegance but to money? No. The Gardens would have been craters long ago.

Incedentally, if they didn't intend it to be military but needed a cover, why'd they go for military when it has :
-no ranks to speak of
-no support staff
-VERY short ranged combat that is virtually useless in reality (Operation Nimrod would have been a win to the Iraqis inside the embassy had the SAS went in with huge swords, whips, nunchukas, fists, boomerang things and doubl barreled shotguns...)
-No artillery, anti-tank weaponry, or anything allowing a chance against armoured forces.
-little diversity in individual soldiers
-no air support
-extremely poor discipline and training.

And in the real world, Galbaldia could have torn them apart with a regiment of paratroopers and a few tanks?

In their defence, they have the right approach by not having buzz-cuts. Special Forces often let their hair grow longer to help them do the shady undercover stuff: In the 1980's people with mullets in northern ireland were either SAS or victims of fashion, but I doubt that was a deliberate act on the part of the designers.

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That's really all I have to say for now. I just didn't like the extreme lack of kitties in this game

It's lack of cats and overabundance of stupid fleabags was indeed annoying. There were some cats in Timber though. And there was Squall, who is a...

*Best. Tank. Ever.

The problem is you're singling out FF8. SO many of the same complaints can be applied to other Final Fantasy games. Is Cloud an effective terrorist for AVALANCHE when storming a Mako Reactor armed with an unwieldy sword when faced with soldiers armed with machine guns?

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SPEKKIO: "GRRR...That was most embarrassing!"

Quote (Zeromus_X @ 4th April 2006 20:08)

Well, the gameplay is the same as FFVII, ATB. Unless you're talking about the customization system.

Correction: FFVI, FFVII, and FFIX equally use the same ATB system, however, FFIV, FFV, and [v]FFVIII[/b] equally use freezing gauges and aswell as Chrono Trigger.

I never liked FFVIII. I only bought it because"Final Fantasy" speaks for itself.

The storyline was poorly executed as well as were their characters. That whole "time compression" and "orphanage" bits in the plot were one of the many reasons why I detested it. I found it even lamer that those who equip GFs start having amnesia, which is perhaps an uncurable disease in FFVIII. I hardly believed that Irvine would remember everything from their childhood to today in the game.

Hey! Let's hack with Gameshark and add all the GFs into Irvine's junction and have him get into 3,000,000,000,000+ random battles and go back to that scene which is when he outstandingly STILL remembers! Wow, FFVIII really sucks! It's gotten even worse with all of that sorceress bull s***. Garden... WTF.. SeeD.... WHAT THE HELL??...

Squall was a horrible Cecil copycat. He was never cool. Fanboys criticize male protagonists depending on what type of weapon(s) they wield. If it's a thief with a 12 inch dagger, they'd act like smartasses and say "Ew! Thieves are gay! And his weapon's gay too! Eww! I hate thieves! They're too weak and I can't even realize that thieves are meant to steal, not to fight lolomgwtfstfufsjdighg!!!11"

Remove Squall's Gunblade, and what do you have?.. A metrosexual son of a b****, that's who. Any man that wears a jacket THAT short will definitely be insulted, pushed, etc. And why?.. Because it's just the way the world is.

Rinoa sucks. Yes, I just said she sucked. Perhaps just as bad as Rosa was. That whole "Oh, I don't want you to leave! Please stay with me in my heart! Uh, uh, my heart's pounding so hard it could pop out of my breast anytime!" bull has been overused in plenty of RPGs with mostly half-nude women who can't shut up about the same topic. Her dog was so out of character. Angelo tried to surpass Interceptor, but Angelo overkilled pets in FFVIII.

Don't forget about how annoying both Zell and Seifer were. Zell's "WOAH! COOL MAN! I'M A GODDAMN HIPPIE-WANNABE!" and Seifer's "OMG you're a chicken wuss HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!" almost condemened me throughout Disc 1 and 2. I liked Zell gameplay-wise, but his character pissed me off. And Seifer's rivalry with Squall sucked at copying Cecil and Kain as enemies.

Selphie, lol.. She sounded like preschool, right at the part where she starts learning how to sing "Row row row your boat" or "The bus on the wheels go round and round". And what's even worse, she's overenergetic character-wise.

Quistis was atleast better than most characters in FFVIII. Atleast she had a more mature feminine side. But she gets rather annoying when she says the "same" thing as Squall says in the beginning.

Irvine is a no-no. Edgar is a yes-yes.

The music was decent, but not supreme to my tastes. I prefer FF5, FF6, FF4, FF3, FF2, FF1, FF7, FF9, and FFT music-wise.

Character models were too oversized with the legs and they don't match up their Heights in the Manual. A 5'9" man CANNOT look like a 6'5"man. That's just not possible!! NO!!

Quote (NeoEx-Death @ 5th April 2006 13:24)

Quote (Zeromus_X @ 4th April 2006 20:08)

Well, the gameplay is the same as FFVII, ATB. Unless you're talking about the customization system.

Correction: FFVI, FFVII, and FFIX equally use the same ATB system, however, FFIV, FFV, and [v]FFVIII[/b] equally use freezing gauges and aswell as Chrono Trigger.

Oh, I see. Thank you for correcting me on that. Though it's still a form of ATB, at the least

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OSonic Rave
/ \Last Arcanum
[ ]Strike Raid
XRagnarok

FFVIII is my absolute favorite FF of all time. It’s not my favorite game, but rather my 3rd favorite. Anyway, FFVIII is a great game that was really balanced in most aspects. The story was a little confusing and forced, the dungeons were bland, and the junction system was a love/hate system; most hated it, few loved it. But other than those 2 things (which you could easily work around), FFVIII was great all around, just like FFVI. The soundtrack was amazing as well as the graphics, the mini games were fun as well as intuitive (except the Pocketstation chocobo thing), and the characters had good development and could easily be related to. Overall, I think FFVIII had much more strengths than weaknesses. Here are my opinions (you gotta love that magic barrier word) and thoughts on FFVIII’s strength and weaknesses:

Story: The first few times I played FFVIII, I thought FFVIII was all about hunting witches. That was when I was 9 or so. Now then I’m older and have played it more, I can easily see where the faults in the storyline were. The love story between Rinoa and Squall might have seemed forced (and they were to an extent), but think about it. Squall is a bratty, angsty teen who doesn’t want to get along with people. Hell, he was even oblivious to the signs Quistis was giving to him. Rinoa was a perfect match for him because she was blunt and forceful. She was the only person able to get through Squall’s adamant behavior because she could communicate the most to people and share her feelings, whereas Squall couldn’t. Then, there’s the orphanage scene. Seeing as they were just 6 or 7 (assumption) when they got separated, it’s highly believable that they couldn’t recognize each other when they grew up. The GF also tampered with their memory since they were junctioned unto their memory spot in their brain. As Irvine says, he only recently junctioned GFs which made him still remember a few things about the orphanage. To me, it made perfect sense. The only thing that I’m still confused on is Time Compression. I’m playing the game again to figure that one out.

Junction System: Quite bluntly, it was broken. You could easily break the stat barrier for a character’s level and make them stronger than was expected. But just because something is broke doesn’t mean you have to abuse it. Don’t get me wrong, the junction system can be abused EASILY, but if you want to make the game harder, you’re going to have to learn how to use Junction without overpowering your characters.

Characters: As I said before, the characters in FFVIII remind me of the characters in FFVI. The majority of them didn’t have major parts in the story, but when they got their time, they used it to the fullest. Squall, Rinoa, Laguna, and Edea had extremely good development which made them overshadow the other characters which had good development. Overall, the characters in FFVIII are great, each with their own unique personality and storyline moments.

And that’s my opinion on FFVIII, my most favorite FF followed by V and IIIj.

By the way Del S (don’t mean to single you out), this game has opponents that can use magical and freaky powers. It isn’t like the real world where when you get shot with a Shotgun, you instantly die. This is why FFVIII’s military shouldn’t even be looked with a real life military outlook. Thing is, mostly every FF after 3j has a military in it that doesn’t fit in with real life. Why should FFVIII be different? VI and VII are also FFs that follow the military theme very closely and each does a bad job with following a real life military.


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And don't drive your car off a cliff like I did. Girl, no man is worth 10 points on your license.

Quote

Anyway, FFVIII is a great game that was really balanced in most aspects.  The story was a little confusing and forced, the dungeons were bland, and the junction system was a love/hate system; most hated it, few loved it.  But other than those 2 things (which you could easily work around), FFVIII was great all around, just like FFVI.  The soundtrack was amazing as well as the graphics, the mini games were fun as well as intuitive (except the Pocketstation chocobo thing), and the characters had good development and could easily be related to.  Overall, I think FFVIII had much more strengths than weaknesses.

This makes me remember Gamespot's April Fools FF Top 10, guess why
FVIII was so great it got the 2nd and 8th place!!

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Story: The first few times I played FFVIII, I thought FFVIII was all about hunting witches.  That was when I was 9 or so.  Now then I’m older and have played it more, I can easily see where the faults in the storyline were.  The love story between Rinoa and Squall might have seemed forced (and they were to an extent), but think about it.

Yeah it was forced, square managed to put a guy of no interest to anyone in their entire life in a couple with a girl that gains extra-terrestrial angel wings after going outer space. This is where we see games are NOT EVEN CLOSE to reality.
Also, you forgot about the GFs, FFVIII is all about GFs!

Quote

Squall is a bratty, angsty teen who doesn’t want to get along with people.  Hell, he was even oblivious to the signs Quistis was giving to him.  Rinoa was a perfect match for him because she was blunt and forceful.

Squall wasn't much of a brat, more a fool. He enver cared about anyone and managed to have friends! And being so hated, he managed to gain the trust of almost anyone... Go figure. At least he had emotions: he could get angry against Seifer.

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She was the only person able to get through Squall’s adamant behavior because she could communicate the most to people and share her feelings, whereas Squall couldn’t.  Then, there’s the orphanage scene.  Seeing as they were just 6 or 7 (assumption) when they got separated, it’s highly believable that they couldn’t recognize each other when they grew up.

Normal, the All-Mighty GF removed completely most of their memory. And of course, even after using 100,000 times GFs you will still remember that ya got to kill the sorceress because she's so bad and evil because time compressing is "bad".
I second RL's post with his dialogue about the time compression.

Quote

The GF also tampered with their memory since they were junctioned unto their memory spot in their brain.  As Irvine says, he only recently junctioned GFs which made him still remember a few things about the orphanage.  To me, it made perfect sense.  The only thing that I’m still confused on is Time Compression.  I’m playing the game again to figure that one out.

The characters are so lame, the whole GF thing is just an excuse, Irvine forgetted too much for having almost never used GFs:
- "Damn I would feel bad if they knew I actually forgot about us being raised by a sorceress in an orphanage!"
- It's all da GF's fault, I swear it!
I think I found out what time compression is for:
To let the time flow faster! you know if you compress your files on your computer when you have almost no space left, it will run faster. Maybe the time was taking so much memory in the universe that it started laggin'. So the sorceress wanted to compress the time to travel faster or something like that. <.<

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Characters: As I said before, the characters in FFVIII remind me of the characters in FFVI.  The majority of them didn’t have major parts in the story, but when they got their time, they used it to the fullest.  Squall, Rinoa, Laguna, and Edea had extremely good development which made them overshadow the other characters which had good development.  Overall, the characters in FFVIII are great, each with their own unique personality and storyline moments.

Don't even try to compare these two games. FFVI had no main character unlike FFVIII which had one but was the greatest moron in the universe. Yeah chars in FFVIII had their determinative moments:
- Squall told Quistis to talk to a wall.
- Rinoa almost died in space.
- Zell ate hot-dogs.
- Seifer thought he was cooler than seifer with his gunblade and having a better personnality... but you will NEVER be cool with a gunblade; he sided with a sorceress.

My opinion

Edit

Typo Master #2 edited his post

This post has been edited by Zodiac on 6th April 2006 17:49

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Sayonara

Quote (Auragaea @ 6th April 2006 07:33)

By the way Del S (don’t mean to single you out), this game has opponents that can use magical and freaky powers.  It isn’t like the real world where when you get shot with a Shotgun, you instantly die.  This is why FFVIII’s military shouldn’t even be looked with a real life military outlook.  Thing is, mostly every FF after 3j has a military in it that doesn’t fit in with real life.  Why should FFVIII be different?  VI and VII are also FFs that follow the military theme very closely and each does a bad job with following a real life military.

Explain why FFVI has a military that doesn't fit with real life. I really hope you're a Roman Empire expert, or else I will tear you apart on this.
Explain why FFVII has a paramilitary force that doesn't fit with real life. I expect you already know that a corporation is the driving force behind this, which means only assets profitable to the corporation are defended. Oh, and guess what? The terrorism that was Avalanche was totally defeated. The Weapons were crushed. Chew on that for a bit; Shrina isn't incompetent and succeeded in nearly all their tasks of defending their customers.

I'm getting so sick and tired of all the strawmandering people attempt in order to defend FF8's inadequacies. FFVIII's SeeD structure would have collapsed in on itself just by examining canonical chain of command!
And guess what? Getting blasted by a shotgun in the real world doesn't mean you'll automatically die. Your false analogy ignores glancing hits, armor, distance, and plenty of other factors. Fighting in games models this with HP, which is why shotguns only do a certain amount of 'damage'. Because it's a model.

Zodiac has already dealt with all the other points you have given. I can't wait to read your explainations on FFVI and FFVII.

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Visions of Peace - Four Generals, One Empire, and the Returners caught in the middle.

Quote (Elessar @ 6th April 2006 18:08)

Quote (Auragaea @ 6th April 2006 07:33)

By the way Del S (don’t mean to single you out), this game has opponents that can use magical and freaky powers.  It isn’t like the real world where when you get shot with a Shotgun, you instantly die.  This is why FFVIII’s military shouldn’t even be looked with a real life military outlook.  Thing is, mostly every FF after 3j has a military in it that doesn’t fit in with real life.  Why should FFVIII be different?  VI and VII are also FFs that follow the military theme very closely and each does a bad job with following a real life military.

Explain why FFVI has a military that doesn't fit with real life. I really hope you're a Roman Empire expert, or else I will tear you apart on this.
Explain why FFVII has a paramilitary force that doesn't fit with real life. I expect you already know that a corporation is the driving force behind this, which means only assets profitable to the corporation are defended. Oh, and guess what? The terrorism that was Avalanche was totally defeated. The Weapons were crushed. Chew on that for a bit; Shrina isn't incompetent and succeeded in nearly all their tasks of defending their customers.

I'm getting so sick and tired of all the strawmandering people attempt in order to defend FF8's inadequacies. FFVIII's SeeD structure would have collapsed in on itself just by examining canonical chain of command!
And guess what? Getting blasted by a shotgun in the real world doesn't mean you'll automatically die. Your false analogy ignores glancing hits, armor, distance, and plenty of other factors. Fighting in games models this with HP, which is why shotguns only do a certain amount of 'damage'. Because it's a model.

Zodiac has already dealt with all the other points you have given. I can't wait to read your explainations on FFVI and FFVII.

Erm... well...

Feeling quite obsolete here.

SeeD's structure and very existence is questionable even if you think magic means looking at things militarily is somehow bunk by default, and the actions of the two superpowers of the game world are similalry questionable.

I can think of only one reason why Esthar and Galbaldia did not do what such superpowers would be inclined to do with a mercenary/terrorist band for hire for any purpose they agreed with. That Esthar would not attack for obvious reasons and Galbaldia would not attack for the reasons that Esthar would be primed to retaliate for the same reasons they would not attack garden. Yet, despite the destruction of Galbaldia's long ranged missile deterrent following an effort to destroy Garden, we don't even hear a rumbling that Esthar's pointing it's warheads at Deling or dropping Paratroopers as Kirov's flatten the presidential palace...

In addition, if Galbaldia was going to attack Garden, why didn't they simply fire ze missiles asap? If they only have conventional warheads, what's the point of having a single facility that their enemies could easily destroy by use of their own missiles or special forces? And why not send a full invasion force? It's a hell of a task to undertake, but Galbaldia's meant to be super-advanced. Yet it can only invade targets it has a land route to until it lets it's garden fly and even then it's assault is a disastrous affair where they cannot even quickly nuetralise a group of rookies and green soldiers. The US Army can drop thousands of paratroopers anywhere on the planet within 24 hours, so surely an "advanced, futuristic" nation like Galbaldia should be able to drop armies in Balamb and Trabia, and wipe SeeD out at their remaining nests before hunting out remaining forces elsewhere. I don't see AA installations anywhere in Garden, I don't see how they could survive an armoured assault long...

It's glaring great holes like that in the actions of so-called militaries in the game, that see them act like a bunch of idiots at best, that are precisely why I continue to assault FF8 from a military perspect.

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"Only the dead have seen the end of their quotes being misattributed to Plato."
-George Santayana

"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here..."
-Abraham Lincoln, prior to the discovery of Irony.

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mostly every FF after 3j has a military in it that doesn’t fit in with real life.

Actually FFV had a very vague military (not part of the story), and you said it's your second favorite FF =P

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In addition, if Galbaldia was going to attack Garden, why didn't they simply fire ze missiles asap? If they only have conventional warheads, what's the point of having a single facility that their enemies could easily destroy by use of their own missiles or special forces? And why not send a full invasion force? It's a hell of a task to undertake, but Galbaldia's meant to be super-advanced. Yet it can only invade targets it has a land route to until it lets it's garden fly and even then it's assault is a disastrous affair where they cannot even quickly nuetralise a group of rookies and green soldiers. The US Army can drop thousands of paratroopers anywhere on the planet within 24 hours, so surely an "advanced, futuristic" nation like Galbaldia should be able to drop armies in Balamb and Trabia, and wipe SeeD out at their remaining nests before hunting out remaining forces elsewhere. I don't see AA installations anywhere in Garden, I don't see how they could survive an armoured assault long...

High five!!

Well, I'm not really someone who likes to argue (mainly because I can't), so I'll just say this really shut me up. If my opinions are gonna be tore up like this, I've got nothing further to say. Anyway, FFVIII is still my favorite FF, and just because it doesn't portray a great militaristic doesn't mean it's a crappy game. I still think the story is above average, the character development is good, and is one of the better FFs out there (even though they're all good).

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And don't drive your car off a cliff like I did. Girl, no man is worth 10 points on your license.

Quote (Del S @ 6th April 2006 13:47)

It's glaring great holes like that in the actions of so-called militaries in the game, that see them act like a bunch of idiots at best, that are precisely why I continue to assault FF8 from a military perspect.

While games may just be games, it doesn't mean their content has to be rushed and full of holes. Square PAYS these guys to work on this stuff. Yet a fan writing a fanfic can come up with something far more sensible than FF8's plot.

No game is perfect. FF7 isn't perfect. CT isn't perfect. Earthbound isn't perfect. Heck, Endless Saga isn't perfect. But only FF8 has a plot that seems to have been pieced together on the fly. And minor little details like the above pile up rapidly when you won't put effort in planning ahead and revising your work. That's why they matter so much.

If you're going to have a military, fine, have some holes - patch up the big ones and give it more thought than a lunch break's worth though. Make the GFs cause memory loss? Fine. But bloody well play it into the story instead of burying it in a tutorial half of your players won't ever read and then springing it totally unexpectedly on the player. Introduce some completely non-standard goal for your baddie? Cool, variety is fun - just have it make some damned sense.

Make your characters all be orphans that come from the same orphanage but lost track of each other then magically met up again, and make their principal their foster "father" and the bad chick their foster "mother"? UN-FRIGGIN'-EXCUSABLE. GO HANG YOURSELF. *Begins frothing at the mouth violently while fumbling for his pills. Elite snipers train their sights on him, just in case.*

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

I echo Auragaea's thoughts here. FF8 is my favorite FF game and ranks high above on my favorite RPGs list, so much so that I can get by with the non-realistic military. If long-haired guys were allowed to be soldiers, I'd have signed up right after H.S. and I actually the whole orphanage plot and I don't have any desire to understand the mechanics of Time Compression and what Ultimecia wants to do with it. The biggest thing I would've liked to change was more "play time" (for lack of a better term) of Laguna, Kiros, and Ward as either a separate disc or more dream sequences. I would say more character depth and/or development of Zell, Quistis, Selphie, and Irvine but at least those characters have importance and individuality in the story as well as in battle.

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"Thought I was dead, eh? Not until I fulfill my dream!"
Seifer Almasy


"The most important part of the story is the ending."
Secret Window


"Peace is but a shadow of death."
Kuja

well i dont want to type a lot to defend this but final fantasy 8 was my favorite.

the story is amazing. thats one of my favorite parts.
the music was good. not the most important, but hey, it helps
gameplay can be easy at some points, but no matter how strong u get, Ultimecia is still hard as hell.
the entire customization was great.
the relationship seemed one sided at first, and a little faky, but its not easy to get a full blown, 100% real relationship into a 40 hour rpg.

and i thought that SeeD was awesome

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Currently Playing : Final Fantasy V
Most Recently Beat : Elder Scrolls: Skyrim
Favorite Game : Final Fantasy X

The newest CoNcast is up! Have a listen!

oh and i agree with fabulous freebird on this one too: we needed more laguna & co. time. it would've been cool if their stats would have increased and everything and then we could have used them at the end for the final battle along with squal & co.

Moderator Edit

Cool, but please edit posts rather than double posting. -R51

This post has been edited by Rangers51 on 10th June 2007 01:31

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Currently Playing : Final Fantasy V
Most Recently Beat : Elder Scrolls: Skyrim
Favorite Game : Final Fantasy X

The newest CoNcast is up! Have a listen!

Here's a quote from an older post of mine regarding FF8s plot twist:

"The plot twist is often discredited because it's far fetched and presented brutally abruptly. I'll admit, it's not easy to grasp, and ridiculous to some. How could all those people, brought together by various roads, have grown up together on the same orphanage and (conveniently) forgotten about it? That's a great coincidence.

Let's look at it this way, instead: Cid ran the orphanage with Edea right? It's plausible that Cid remembers them all (of course), and tries to get them to fight together. So, rather than having a HUGE coincidence happening, it comes down to some manipulation by Cid to have the group of friends from the Orphanage teamed up on their first SeeD missions. That sure explains why Nida isn't on the Timber mission, while the other 3 SeeDs (Selphie, Zell, and Squall) are..."

Looking at it from that perspective, the angle doesn't look as bad.

That said, it's presented much too abruptly, and much of the story goes downhill near the end.

Why do I like FF8? Two reasons, I guess.

1. As broken as the Junction system is, I like it. I like having the power to dominate with careful planning before a big battle. Those who say drawing is boring and tedious... what about power-levelling in any other FF? To those who say they don't power-level... you don't need to draw for hours to get through FF8, as it's not that hard. The problem is not so much that the Junction system is powerful, it's that it's too easy to use. Materia in FF7 is pretty absurdly powerful. Last-attack combos, miming KOTR... the thing is, it takes a lot of preparation to raise Materia to that point, whereas you can refine magic in FF8 very early and get all the advantages...

2. The futuristic world was very interesting for me. Coming from FF4 and 6, FF8 was just big. I found it easier to relate to Squall and co., though some of the characters were annoying. Something about guiding Squall through his training, making decisions for him, wanting to one-up Seifer, etc... it just resonated with me. The fact that I played it before FF7 or any other PS RPG helped a lot, I guess. It was a visually beautiful game.

This post has been edited by Jlombardi13 on 11th June 2007 04:49

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Lou: There's a couple of guys fighting down at the aquarium, Chief.
Wiggum: Do they still sell those frozen bananas?
Lou: I think so.
Wiggum: Let's roll.

I like FF VIII. It's probably one of my top three favorites in the series. I would do a whole analysis and defend it against libel, but I really don't want to. I like it, and that's enough for me.

It's really just a matter of taste. I actually liked FFVIII a lot. I identified strongly with Squall and enjoyed his emotional journey. The rest of the plot was just icing on the cake. (Though, the icing was quite bland...)

Selphie was really the only character to get on my nerves. She was made of pure sugar, dissolved quickly, and had no nutritional value. She was an airhead, who somehow learned how to use a weird nunchaku thingy.

Regardless, I know a lot of people who would crucify me for my diatribes on FFV. Sure that game had a wonderful job system, but the gameplay is about 15% of the game enjoyment for me. I play the game for the story, and in my opinion FFV's was awful. I mean, come ON. Exdeath? The villian had no origins, he was just some guy who wanted to return everything to the void so that he...oh wait. HE DIDN'T HAVE A REASON. *headdesk*

Different people enjoy different games. That's just the way of it. Fun is different for everyone.

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"Some fight for justice. Some fight for law . . .
. . .Cecil, what will you fight for?"
~KluYa

[QUOTE]Let's look at it this way, instead: Cid ran the orphanage with Edea right? It's plausible that Cid remembers them all (of course), and tries to get them to fight together. So, rather than having a HUGE coincidence happening, it comes down to some manipulation by Cid to have the group of friends from the Orphanage teamed up on their first SeeD missions.[/QUOTE]

i didn't think of that. i never really like the coincidence that they all ended up together, but that makes a lot of sense. that clears up a lot for me.

[/QUOTE]Regardless, I know a lot of people who would crucify me for my diatribes on FFV. Sure that game had a wonderful job system, but the gameplay is about 15% of the game enjoyment for me. I play the game for the story, and in my opinion FFV's was awful. I mean, come ON. Exdeath? The villian had no origins, he was just some guy who wanted to return everything to the void so that he...oh wait. HE DIDN'T HAVE A REASON. *headdesk*[QUOTE]

i agree. i didn't like ff5. story is EVERYTHING in my opinion, and ff5 didn't really have one.

[/QUOTE]. As broken as the Junction system is, I like it. I like having the power to dominate with careful planning before a big battle. Those who say drawing is boring and tedious... what about power-levelling in any other FF? To those who say they don't power-level... you don't need to draw for hours to get through FF8, as it's not that hard. The problem is not so much that the Junction system is powerful, it's that it's too easy to use. Materia in FF7 is pretty absurdly powerful. Last-attack combos, miming KOTR... the thing is, it takes a lot of preparation to raise Materia to that point, whereas you can refine magic in FF8 very early and get all the advantages...

2. The futuristic world was very interesting for me. Coming from FF4 and 6, FF8 was just big. I found it easier to relate to Squall and co., though some of the characters were annoying. Something about guiding Squall through his training, making decisions for him, wanting to one-up Seifer, etc... it just resonated with me. The fact that I played it before FF7 or any other PS RPG helped a lot, I guess. It was a visually beautiful game. [QUOTE]

i agree with the junction system. i like being able to do well based on your strategy even if you dont spend a dozen hours leveling up. i like the futuristic RPG. i wouldn't want to play just futuristic ones, but i definately like them.

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Currently Playing : Final Fantasy V
Most Recently Beat : Elder Scrolls: Skyrim
Favorite Game : Final Fantasy X

The newest CoNcast is up! Have a listen!

I liked the story, i don't really mind if things aren't realistic and stuff... and the combat system was pretty well made, and the levelling system made powerlevelling pretty useless, hence the bossfights were usually challenging...

and the visuals were pretty good, more realistic than the polygon-FF7 ones, if that's what you're into.

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All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Broccoli to die.

The one and only thing that has bugged me about FFVIII is : What does SeeD stand for?

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Soul wrought of Terra infintum, I am here. I am Heaven's Dark Salvation

Quote (Death Penalty @ 10th June 2007 00:55)

well i dont want to type a lot to defend this but final fantasy 8 was my favorite.

the story is amazing. thats one of my favorite parts.

How exactly was it amazing? Without further definition of "Amazing" you're doing nothing to counteract the attacks on the story

Quote (Death Penalty @ 10th June 2007 00:55)

the entire customization was great.

In what aspects? Was it that it allowed you to craft a nigh-invulnerable party with relative ease or that every character could be tailor-fit to the situation?

Quote (Death Penalty @ 10th June 2007 00:55)

the relationship seemed one sided at first, and a little faky, but its not easy to get a full blown, 100% real relationship into a 40 hour rpg.

They could have maybe taken some time and made switch a little less sudden.

Regarding what SeeD stands for, goodness knows.

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"Only the dead have seen the end of their quotes being misattributed to Plato."
-George Santayana

"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here..."
-Abraham Lincoln, prior to the discovery of Irony.

Quote (Del S @ 13th June 2007 16:23)

Quote (Death Penalty @ 10th June 2007 00:55)

the relationship seemed one sided at first, and a little faky, but its not easy to get a full blown, 100% real relationship into a 40 hour rpg.

They could have maybe taken some time and made switch a little less sudden.

There are many other 40-hour long RPGs out there that succeed in pulling off an involving, deep, believable love story. FF8 just rushed it, forced it into the plot as an important event, and forgot about it. They never took into consideration the actual characters involved, either, and just forced them into a relationship in a fit of deus ex-machina storywriting.

SeeD most likely stands for "let's be hip and write it in a funky way." I'm disappointed in the lack of GardeNs or SorceresSes...

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

Quote

They could have maybe taken some time and made switch a little less sudden.

that is true. i think what the problem with ff8 was that they tried to put too much plot into the game. i mean, i love every minute of the plot, but if they had just made the game longer, stretching stuff out so that the plot twists weren't so sudden, then i think it would have been a lot better.

Quote

I'm disappointed in the lack of GardeNs or SorceresSes...

i agree again. i wish there was at least another 2 gardens. maybe one by esthar, another by dollet or something? it would have made SeeD much more realistic/cool. i think the sorceress thing was ok though.

which brings up another point: why dont final fantasy games have more cities and stuff? if they had a couple more, even if they weren't involved in the story, it would make the world more realistic and it would make for more fun. in the older games, i can understand that there might not have been enough space/time for extra cities. but when i played through ff12 i was upset to find that they hadn't thrown in any extra cities or the like either.

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Currently Playing : Final Fantasy V
Most Recently Beat : Elder Scrolls: Skyrim
Favorite Game : Final Fantasy X

The newest CoNcast is up! Have a listen!

A lot of the older ones had pointless towns. III had several towns that you never really had to visit in the course of the game. IV had a couple. Like Mythril, and Tomra? Is that the dwarf town by the sealed cave? V had it's share of extra towns. Then at 6, it started to taper off. Suddenly, things happened in every spot on the globe. :-/

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If you've been mod-o-fied,
It's an illusion, and you're in-between.
Don't you be tarot-fied,
It's just alot of nothing, so what can it mean?
~Frank Zappa

Sins exist only for people who are on the Way or approaching the Way

I think FFVIII had alot of problems.
It's junction system wasn't the best IMO, I just didn't like the way it almost punished you for actually using your own magic in battle.
"Let's use Ultima! ... no... I can't, because it's nowhere in this game and I won't be immune to fire anymore if I do"
That was stupid to me.

The plot wasn't my cup of tea, it wasn't good to me in comparison to other FFs , but I'll leave it alone, most of my thoughts on it have been said here anyway.

I liked the setting. This was my favorite part about it, it was modern and I liked that, I'm not so into all the medieval fantasy style settings that earlier FFs had. I liked the futuristic buildings and places like Esthar and the Gardens.
Personnally, FFVIII's world was my favorite untill FFXII, but even that couldn't save it from, in my eyes, being a poor game.

This post has been edited by cloud17 on 16th June 2007 10:47

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In the end, it boils down to two simple choices. Either you do or you don't.