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Did any of you have issues with this game? It was hand down my least favorite FF. I loved the story and the characters, but I couldn't stand the GF system.

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Dead Winter. A nice comic.

I absolutely despise the junction system and the magic system. I can live with having GF designate abilities, even if really goes hand in hand with the junction system, but by the endgame the nature of magic spells and junctioned stats turn every single fight in to a hackfest. Juncitoning spells actually discourages you from using them in battle and severely cuts down the entertainment of fights. Sure, making kick-ass Junction setups could be entertaining, but it's no fun making uber characters when you're afraid to cast spells with them. By the endgame, with just about every stat junctioned, things are blown so out of proportion that all character individuality in battle is absolutely killed other than Crticals. Speaking of which, I far prefer a Limit/Trance/Overdrive gauge to the Critical special system. Criticals are too easy to abuse.

Second of all, the plot. I like FF VIII's plot... for the first two disks or so. After that the transitions get really choppy, the dungeons get way weird, and you play football in outer space. Right. I don't mind the Sorceress aspect of the plot and Rinoa's role in it, but by the endgame it was all too weird to enjoy. Plus, I really hated how the only plot-important playable characters were Squall, Rinoa, and Seifer. Maybe Quistis and Irvine too, but their involvement ends by the middle of the second disk. But still, any of the "other four" playable characters don't do anything to involve themselves after awhile. No special character-buildling sidequests, very little if any character development, plus there's that ludicrous "twist" revealing the connection between most of the characters in the second (or was it third?) disk. No thanks. The Laguna/Raine side story was much more entertaining.

And as for the characters themselves, I really don't like them. I already mentioned how their lack of plot-importance and development gets to me, but on top of that Irvine is too bland, Zell is far too annoying, and Selphie and Rinoa pretty much exemplify everything I dislike about female characters. Quistis was definitely my favorite character, even if she was a little bland. And Squall? Too. Much. ANGST. His loner personality is permissable, but he takes it too far and his development is way too sudden and unexpected.

So yeah, I didn't llike FF VIII. It's my second-least favorite numbered FF game, right in front of IIj.

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this is a blog mostly about comics and videogames
END SPOILER

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Junctioning spells actually discourages you from using them in battle

My sentiments exactly. Now, I'm actually more of an ATTACK guy anyways, but I'd at least like the option available to cast spells without weakening my stats.

I loved every part of this game, and every person I've ever known who likes Final Fantasies does too...yet dispite this, everyone here despises it so much I guess it's because you started on something else and didn't like the change. This game taught me about tactic and consequence (spelled right??), you can use magic, but at a price it's like Ultimate Weapons in FF VII, use them for power but the materia suffers...but o well

Two thumbs up!

Edit

Fixed my grammer

This post has been edited by dont chocobos rule? on 10th November 2005 23:19

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Aujourdhui a commence avec toi.

Im with dont chocobo's rule, i didn't find really anything wrong about FFVIII at all, it was a fun game with and excellent card game as well.

Other than what Laszlow siad, I have one MAJOR problem with FF8. SeeD.

Why SeeD are a bit poo.
SeeD is the mercenary organisation which the playable characters of Final Fantasy Eight were members of (Except Rinoa). In previews for the game, a magazine in the UK said they were “A bit like the SAS”. That referred to the Special Air Service, this world’s foremost counter-terrorist and special operations forces. Australian, New Zealand, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland maintain regiments of SAS troopers, and most US Special Forces groups have doctrine derived from British special forces tactics from World War 2. When those five words (Or is it seven?) were written in previews of FF8, I was rather intrigued.

In hindsight, that description was an utter lie and actually an insult to the fine men (and women) who have served in groups “A bit like the SAS.”

SeeD are not a very logical organisation. They do not follow doctrines that in my view would be vital for their role. And they do not seem to have that good a track record of producing good soldiers.

Now, first off, SeeD train their operatives from a young age, like a high school where they teach you how to stab people instead of some less important subject like, presumably, religious , social, and moral education. This is a little similar to Judge Cadets in the famous Judge Dredd comics, except it misses two vital parts out. Building self confidence and morals.

Squall is the team leader of the group in FF8, but he’d never even be looked at for SAS selection. Hell, even Delta Force wouldn’t take him and they’re desperate! He’s a moody, depressed, non-versatile man with no real combat experience at the start of the game, and by the time he’s a team leader, very little actual field experience. He’s as green as grass. Worse, the rest of his team is greener than a man who had three hotdogs and then went on a roller coaster, and they too have severe morale problems as soldiers. They speak of their role in public, are about as covert as warning the enemy you’re ambushing them, and are also very stupidly armed, as well as being inflexible.

Squall is equipped with a Gunblade. A nice idea, but the model he carries is utterly useless for the role he’s in: namely, a covert operation which would require a concealed weapon. Now, it may be a videogame, it may have access to “hammerspace” or maybe the Galbaldians are complete morons and let people walk around Timber carrying a larger arsenal that the entire Belgian army has, but the fact remains he should be carrying either a nice little pistol, a pistol/dagger-sized gunblade rather than a full blown sword/comedy oversized revolver gun blade. His leadership flaws are already obvious: he’s not a charismatic man, he’s not very concerned about his squads morale, he’s not had any experience as a second-in-command or field trooper, and he’s also stuck firmly into a single role, which is that of a gunblade user . All in all, for a mercenary, not a very useful set of traits. But for selection to the SAS, why would he not be considered? Well, first and foremost, his age and rank. Squall’s only 17, and if he joined the British Army, would probably be a private. His lack of diversity in skills would mean he’d need retrained.

Selphie has one very fundamental reason as to why she’d never join the SAS. She’s a she. She’s also suffering the same problems as Squall, in that she’s not diverse, and her morale and attitude is utterly wrong. No veteran fighter ever has that kind of attitude. And she’s still green. Her weapon of choice is worse that Squalls, very short ranged (Gunblades at least possibly able to fight a target at range) and also, virtually impossible to conceal.

Zell at least has a concealable weapon, unfortunately, it’s, in practice, useless. His fists may be able to beat a man to death, but if to beat that man to death he needs to cover ground under fire, he’s dead. His attitude approaches a mildly acceptable one: confident in himself and his mission, but he’s poorly disciplined and does not respect rank. He’s a typical gung-ho soldier, really, and he at least learns his lessons a little by the end of the game. Unfortunately, he’s still very much stuck rigidly to fistd fighting, and at no point does he even seem to consider diversifying to pick up a ranged or a bladed weapon.

Quistis has some similar problems, but at least has some experience. Her weapon of choice is a little more concealable, but not very useful overall. Her whip has a range of maybe 5 meters. Any idiot can blow your head off from 10 meters away, or shrug off the hit which would be striking body armour or equipment, and then slice her in two.
Irvine. Now, he has a gun. He knows how to use it. His gun is a useful weapon, but not concealable, and worse, a shotgun, which is not too handy at extreme range (Very powerful up close though). He’s the sniper of the team, and that’s where alarm bells ought to ring. Sniping is indeed lonely if it’s on a battlefield context, but the trouble is, most snipers are either accompanied by a spotter, or given backup. Either that or they’re dedicated, some would say psychopathic, soldiers, willing to kill any target irrespective of any qualm about whether or not it’s right. That’s why when he complains about sniping being lonely, he’s being a bad sniper. That’s why when he does not open fire straight away, he proves he’s not been trained properly as a sniper. He’s also a very strange person. Later in the game, we discover he has know every other party member except Rinoa since his childhood, yet he does not even begin to make an effort to say hello to his old friends, treating them instead as strangers.

Squad organisation is also a bit suspicious. Most military groups fight in fours, fives, or multiples thereof. That allows for a leader, 2 people with heavier weapons, and 2 riflemen. In SeeD’s case, they have deployed a group of… three. And then becomes a squad of five, that splits up into a group of three SeeDs, and another of 2 SeeD’s and a woman who is actually a terrorist. And not a very skilled one. No uniformity, no diversity, no long ranged fighting ability, no radio link to HQ, and no clear way of carrying all their weapons and equipment.

SeeD also use GF’s, which are actually dangerous to the user, and the users have not been told. Now, whilst that practice is not uncommon with actual soldiers (Countless soldiers having been exposed to carcinogenic smoke grenades and a-bomb testing), it seems very usual that SeeD’s commanders have not even confirmed nor denied the allegations that the GF’s cause memory loss.

Another problem is the exam process. Trainees are sent into combat, where they’re very likely to be killed. Not the smartest selection process (a little too Darwinian), and those being examined are not even sent there as full soldiers.

SeeD shouldn’t actually exist at all, really. They’re mercenaries, and as such, available for hire to anyone. No government could seriously tolerate an armed and highly trained (allegedly) body of soldiers available to anyone for a fee, as that would mean that insurgents, rebels, terrorists, and generally not very nice people in the government’s eyes could hire them to strike out at the government. Galbaldia should have, by all means, wiped the floor with them long before the game begun. It would be an easy task for a nation like Galbalida, as SeeD’s bases do not appear to have any significant defences except mobility: which shouldn’t count against a fighter squadron at all.

SeeD don’t even appear to have any significant support equipment. No helicopters, no artillery, no armoured fighting vehicles, no fighter planes, no bombers, no paratroopers. Basically, if a determined assault was staged on Balamb garden , it would be captured very easily. After all, few of the SeeD’s are armed with long range weapons, and it does not appear that there are any heavy weapons in SeeD’s arsenal. That means tanks are virtually invincible, and, considering the average tank can kill you from a few miles away, if Galbadia staged a ground assault, they’d have dominance in that just five tanks could pound the compound with long ranged fire. The enemy vehicle resistance would consist of a few cars, easily eliminated. Infantry deployed either by parachute or helicopter fast roping could clear out the entire building in about half an hour if they were equipped with the correct weapons and wargear, such as smoke, flash, and frag grenades. In short, Galbadia should really have massacred SeeD. If the garden evaded the missile strike: hunt it down with Fighters.

So, a poorly equipped, poorly trained, and mostly inefficient force, which, incidentally, has terrorist ties and roots, and utilising child soldiers. Not so hot, not at all like the SAS. They’re an extremely unrealistic group, and whilst it may be “fantasy”, the misconceptions needed to be taken on, because they’re making people wrong in what they say, and leading to some of the worst fan fictions, general ideas and posts of message boards I have seen. Final Fantasy should ideally try again with something like Eight, but get the facts straight first. Professionals who act professional, rather than amateurs pretending they’re the mutt’s nuts special forces, when they’re actually special farces.

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"Only the dead have seen the end of their quotes being misattributed to Plato."
-George Santayana

"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here..."
-Abraham Lincoln, prior to the discovery of Irony.

I didn't get what SeeD was all about either. However, FF8's battle system is one of my favorites and if you are not fond of using magic (I actually stock up on Flare Stones/Holy Stones/Shell Stones/Meteor Stones/Aura Stones and use them instead of magic, that way no loss, bus still farfetched). The GF's weren't great but one thing I liked in FF8 storywise was that it was pretty deep (except for SeeD, and whatever happened to Galbadia Garden, did it just disappear in thin air, does anyone care about Trabia Garden). The orphan thing went a little far, and the whole GF = amnesia thing didn't make any sense (but then again, most Final Fantasies are unexplainable at times).

I really liked the Laguna flashbacks, and how detailed the idea of time was in this game. Also I like how you could draw a connection between Squall and Rinoa with Laguna and Julia. Laguna and Julia never met again and Julia married the General, and had a child Rinoa. Laguna, after getting hurt, arrives at Winhill, and meets Ellione and Raine. Laguna marries Raine, but Laguna goes off, and Raine gets pregnant (with, supposedly Squall). Raine dies later from an illness.

What I could see is that Laguna was never able to see Julia again, Julia waited and waited, and instead marries General Caraway, so Rinoa was born. Laguna marries Raine, and has Squall, and now you can draw a connection between Squall and Rinoa, the relationship empties the gap that was left behind when Laguna leaves Julia to fight for the Galbadian army.

As I said, the story is deep, and highly based on interpretation like FF7 and the numerous theories behind it.

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Who is Byblos?

I really hate FFVIII. It is hell for people with serious OCD about completing things and such, like me. I will sit for hours, literally hours, just drawing magic from enemies, until I have 100 of every single spell I have access to. Do you know how frustrating and annoying this is? That means that if I get hit and have to use Cure or Curara, due to my OCD and hate for any non-100 number in this game, I have to go back to a battle and draw Cure from somebody. It's that bad.

Not only that, but once you have a significant number of a spell, you can junction it and the game is over, pretty much. I don't remember much about what I did in my first (and only) playthrough, but my brother just beat it at second time this year and reminded me of how easy it was: by the end of Disk 1, with 100 Thundagas junctioned to Strength and something else junctioned to HP, his Squall alone oculd defeat anything in no more than two hits. Seriously, he did a lot of damage; I want to say a few thousand.

Once you get the ability to junction to Speed, you might as well end the game. I think Cerberus has that junction, and Ifrit has Str and Vigor or something. But anyways, you can junction Stop to speed and it'll go through the roof, junction something to Str (I don't remember what I used to use), and you're set. To top it off, you could put 100 Pains in elemental attack to cripple anything you didn't kill in the first hit.

That, coupled with the infinite limit breaks makes this game way too easy and the drawing and SeeD rank and such makes this annoying. The cards were pretty sweet, but after I lost Ifrit to get Rinoa, and couldn't get him back, I lost interest in that, too.

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Is PJ

I got tired of drawing, Mug'd items and refined them to magic. I find this faster than the draw command. Also if you have a Playstation Emulator, drawing and boring parts are done faster. I fould it odd that you really couldn't buy magic, although its still a good idea to refine your magic from items to not waste time.

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Who is Byblos?

FF8 is complex and highly structured, which is a facet I'm not ashamed swing a little praise to. Unfortunately, it's so structured that anyone reasonably familiar with the game can manipulate the miniscule amount of difficulty the game has. One of the most glaring examples is how you can get the insta-death Degenerator skill in around three hours or less just by refining a card.

As for other things:

Quote (Caesar)

That, coupled with the infinite limit breaks makes this game way too easy and the drawing and SeeD rank and such makes this annoying. The cards were pretty sweet, but after I lost Ifrit to get Rinoa, and couldn't get him back, I lost interest in that, too.

That about sums it up. Besides the Ifrit point, of course--you can win it back from Martine in FH.

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It's gonna be a glorious day
I feel my luck can change

This games ties with Tactics as my favorite FF games overall. I love the GF/Junction system, the plot/story, the characters, and the card game! The PSX graphics and movies sequences as well as the game's music do nothing to hurt my love for it at all. I disagree with some of the complaints about the magic system in conjunction with junctioning magic onto stats as there are more magic slots than stats and you don't have to junction EVERY single stat; after all super-powered characters are rather unnecessary. Granted, you don't want to cast Full-Lifes or Ultimas while they're junctioned to your stats for a great boost, just limits the magic usage a bit. A concrete example would be how effective Demi and Holy are in battle, but any given character can have just as good stats to what the aforementioned are junctioned and the same or similar junction effects. Depending on the situation, Cast and Re-Draw work for me, sometimes. And this is possible with 255 of some stats and 9999 HP.The things that I would've liked to see different are character in-depth analyses OTHER than Squall and Rinoa. We get abstract profiling on the other main characters. For example, why didn't things turn out well with Quisty's foster parents? How was Irvine's and Selphie's childhood/Garden experiences between the orphanage and Balamb Garden? I would've also loved more playtime so to speak with Seifer, Laguna, Kiros, and Ward. Despite my dislikes, I LOVE FF8 and it remans, to this day, my favorite Final Fantasy [numbered] title !!

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"Thought I was dead, eh? Not until I fulfill my dream!"
Seifer Almasy


"The most important part of the story is the ending."
Secret Window


"Peace is but a shadow of death."
Kuja

Wow. Where to begin...?

Well, for starters, let's have a look at the storyline. Many people claim storylines are what make RPGs, so let's give this one a look, shall we?

In Final Fantasy VIII, you play the role of the squad leader of an elite group called SeeD. This squad leader, moody and very reserved, is almost all too proud of his lack of communication and his inexistant teamwork abilities. At times impulsive, always uncaring and nearly rebelious, he's given command of a squad of elite troops within about a day of being given official SeeD status. This man fights with a short-ranged weapon, often against troops armed with firearms. Wow. Square, the character himself is a concept that appeals a lot to your early-teens audience, but does he really fit in with all this? I mean, have you stopped to think about how this makes zero sense? Would anyone be stupid enough to stake the reputation of an organisation like SeeD on a man like this? Forget graduating him, this guy's a squad leader!

His group consists of an extremely immature and overzealous martial artist (and we thought Squall's gunblade was foolish against firearms; here we have some kid who punches people!) and a childish overexcited little girl with nunchuks (ironically enough, the longest-ranged weapon to date!) Both of these are recent graduates (despite one of them having transferred mere days ago.) Ok, so Square wanted their token martial artist character. Right. I can deal with that. And they wanted their cutsey but annoying token young girl character. Who just recently transferred. And is placed in a group led by Squall (let's not waste any more time on this guy; refer to the previous bit about him if you want...) Does SeeD have something against their transfer students? That aside, Square, what the heck? Can't you come up with new cookie-cutter characters instead of forcing clichés into a setting they don't fit into?

Then there's Rinoa. Despite being the (highly disorganised) leader of a (highly disorganised) band of rebels, she's the only one so far WITH A DECENT WEAPON: an arm-mounted cutting disk. Ah, but Square isn't done with its clichés! Just as she starts to appear like a new, non-clichéed character... wham. Female love interest with a dark and mysterious secret. And she throws a fit at daddy. So far so good! Our heros have added another immature child to their group. When I was 18, I was nearing my last year in college and had long since put my tantrum-at-mommy-and-daddy phase behind. And Rinoa was so promising, too! Oh well.

Then, along comes the cool and loose sniper. Finally! A character with some individuality and a REAL weapon that fits the setting: a gun. A shotgun, granted, but a firearm nevertheless. But... this guy's afraid to fire at people. And they made him into a sniper for some reason. Is SeeD just TRYING to group their worse members together and hoping natural selection will deal with them?

Ah yes, almost forgot Squall's teacher. Who has a whip, glasses, and is older than Squall. For some reason, I'm getting the whole "dominatrix" vibe from her. Well, at least she's not an overused cliché...

But this is where it gets really good! It turns out this ragtag band of incompetant, immature kids are all... ORPHANS WHO GREW UP TOGETHER! And guess what? The bad guy? SHE TOOK CARE OF THEM! But wait... here's the kicker: they forgot. Why? Let's have a look at Square's offices.

Developper A: *fully stoned* Guh? Lol.
Developper B: *zonked as well* Hur hur, bring more beer!
Developper A: Ohhh man, I- I think... I think... like... omg, Selphie's hot.
Developper B: Mnnnbrung.... beer...?
Developper A: *bursts out laughing* This guy... this guy's allright!

That's right. Not ever Square knows how they came up with such a terrible plot device.

But that's not all. Somehow, during their insane ramblings while absolutely high, someone scribbled "Time Compression" on a napkin using their penis and some of the leftover nacho dip before passing out in the punch bowl between two of the main dev PCs. Square's higher ups felt this was an insightful idea and told the dev team to make it into something that could be used in the game. The dev team figured, hey, it worked last time, and got drunk/high again. Nobody's quite sure who typed up the design document for time compression and made it fit into the storyline, but chilling rumors suggest it might've been one of the more zonked developpers who thought he was playing Doom while notepad was opened.

The game system itself. Let's see...

- Equipment is gone. Instead, you can upgrade your weapons by collecting items! (Hello MMORPG collector syndrome!)
- Items? Laying in chests? LOL!
- Limiting the player's stronger abilities? Naw, no need! GFs can be used pretty much indefinately. And often are. To boot, you don't quite take damage while summoning, your GFs do for you (with about 2-3x more HP than you.)
- Spells are now equipment! That's right folks!
- They're also items, too. You have a limited amount and use 1 per casting.
- Limits can be used indefinately at any time when you're low on HP. This allows you to beat the last boss in a few minutes flat.
- Levels? No need for 'em anymore, really. Same goes for exp.
- Character individuality in battle is limited to their weapon and limit. Yay.

And... does anyone remember that minigame on that weird handheld thing that was never sold here you had to play to gain some of the items? Great idea, that was. Really.

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

I agree completly accept for

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Levels? No need for 'em anymore, really. Same goes for exp.

They did have levels, but whoever attacks last gets more exp.

What was it about the chocobo thing anyways. I was confused with what you did. And you had to buy a PocketStation. W..T..F!

Edit

Can't spell buy

This post has been edited by Barrylocke on 14th November 2005 14:33

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Dead Winter. A nice comic.

Quote (Barrylocke @ 14th November 2005 09:33)

They did have levels, but whoever attacks last gets more exp.

What I meant to say was that, despite having "levels," enemies levelled up alongside your party, so there really wasn't much of a point to levelling up other than to get better spells with Draw. In comparaison, other FFs made levelling one of the key non-strategic elements in making your party stronger.

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."