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Excuse me if ye have heard all of this before, but, after 7 hours of mindless labor, I felt like venting, soooo...

This was brought up by a conversation that came up in chat yesterday about Ashlee Simpson and her lip synching fiasco. Seriously, I'd like to know what the big deal is. As this article points out, many MANY pop stars lip synch to prerecordings of their own voices and everyone knows it or, at least, should know it. It's one of those well known secrets; a "don't ask don't tell" sort of deal. After all, most of these people suck at singing, but, filter their singing through the latest technology and they sound like gods. Their success and, apparently, their egoes depend on this. And they get away with it because they "sounded SOOO good." With no clear evidence of lip synching, everyone was happy.

Then it happens. Someone gets caught red-handed and it becomes a huge scandal. "Ashlee Simpson was lip synching?? What a SHOCK!! How could she??" Please . Again, they all do it, so it shouldn't be such big deal...

Actually, this "scandal" reminded me of the Clinton-Monica scandal. At some point, it was common knowledge that ol' Bill was a horndog, but it didn't become a huge scandal until he was caught red-handed.

I suppose that, in the end, the act itself may not have been the big issue, but, rather, the fact that neither Clinton nor Ashlee owned up to what they did. Perhaps if they had taken responsibility for their respective mistakes, things might not have escalated to the levels they had. Then again, big names always have their detractors, those who are just itching to pounce on any little speck of dirt to use against the objects of their ire.

GOP: **Grumble Grumble** "Clinton sucks..." **Grumble Grumble** "He doesn't deserve to be prez..." **Grumble**

Then the moment the affair becomes public?

GOP: "SEE??" **Point Point Point** "We told you he was a lying cheating scallawag!! But did anyone listen?? NO!!"

And who better to sensationalize the issue, ye might ask? Yep, ye got it: the media. No doubt they can take a common thing like lip synching and make it seem like the sky's falling.

As for the argument that "People don't wanna pay $60 to watch what they can see for free on MTV," well let me ask this: How many people do ye believe actually went to, say, a Britney Spears concert, to experience her "singing prowess?" I'm willing to bet that at least half of them went just to see her gyrate her hips, shake her money-maker, and, perhaps, for the dim hope that a breast will fall out of her skimpy outfits. They couldn't care less whether she was lip synching or not.

Finally, I want to pick on Jessica Simpson a bit as she has yet to be caught like her little sis. Yes, folks, Jessica lip synchs, too. If ye tell me otherwise, I can only assume that either you're lying through your teeth or her (whichever choice below best applies) has got ye eating out of her hand.

a. "girl power" image or whatever
b. big rack

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She got caught on (1) national television (2) off guard, too, which made her actions look clandestine and (3) she came up with a plethora of excuses, like acid reflux disease, a stupid drummer, etcetera. Sure, the usage of pre-recorded materia isn't a blast from left field, but it sure doesn't pay to falsify claims to preserve one's image. I think that's half the reason she got so much flak, myself.

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It's gonna be a glorious day
I feel my luck can change

It's true - a LOT of singers do it, and it's pretty well known of some of 'em. Anyone remember the Milli Vanilli fiasco in the 80's? Caught right up there on the concert stage 'cause their tape became stuck; kept repeating the same half a line over 'n' over again:

"Girl, you know it...
Girl, you know it...
Girl, you know it...
Girl, you know it..."

How embarrassing THAT had to be. I guess, eventually, they couldn't keep up with repeating the same freakin' line in order to hide their lack of musical prowess. Course, the reason this is so different than modern lip synch cases (most, at least) is 'cause Milli Vanilli never sang any of their so-called songs to begin with; they were all taped in a studio by a group of talented people whose voices were, unfortunately, made to look like they belonged to a couple of pretty men who could dance.

Ever since people have been rather skeptical 'bout people who lip synch and are a bit too quick to jump and call 'em phonies. Some of them deserve it, no doubt. As you said, filter singing voices with all sorts of equipment and anyone will sound like a siren. I know for a fact that both Britney Spears and Madonna lip synch at their concerts, for example, and I used to have an entire list containing people and groups most likely wouldn't expect. And it wasn't 'cause they were unexpectedly found out, but because they openly admitted it voluntarily.

The music industry nowadays is largely about images - beautiful people make beautiful singers even if, y'know, they don't. Like one celebrity once said (can't remember who): If the standards of today applied to the music industry 30-40 years ago, many of the greatest singers in history never would've made it big. Like Meatloaf; surely an overweight and not-so-attractive guy would never be allowed onstage in the professional world of music, 'cause he doesn't "look" the part. Heck, even Elvis in his later years would be booted from his record company for being fat instead of chiseled. But most music was experienced via radios then anyway, so looks hardly mattered. Presently, it seems as though singers have more appeal physically than they do vocally (and hell, their physical images are faked too. Many of them, sans makeup, look just like, or even worse than, regular people. Ever seen pictures of Britney Spears without all her "prettying up"? Like day up against night, with an added "Ugh!")

But really, the fact that several singers lip synch really shouldn't be treated as such a big deal. Lots 'n' lots of singers do it, so what's the harm if one's 'unmasked'... granted, if they don't lie 'bout it? Some, like Madonna, lip synch specifically to keep up with the crazy dance steps without running outta breath. Others don't have those kinda excuses, which comes off as either pure laziness or a high dependance on sound equipment that alters their voices in order to cover up the fact that they can't sing. But that's just the way things are these days...

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Words of Wisdom:

If something can go wrong, it will.

If anything simply cannot go wrong, it will anyway.

If there is a possibility of several things going wrong, the one that will cause the most damage will be the one to go wrong. - Murphy’s Law

Boing! Zoom! - Mr. Saturn

Yeah, if there's actually a routine where movement is involved instead of some angstball just camping out on the mic, it can sure serve as a cushion. No one sounds good when they're panting for breath, right? The reliance on voice alteration tarnishes one's character, too, and even calls into question is one could sing in the first place--that's partly why the fans are disappointed but the record companies still dole out the contracts. The little Simpson girl sang at the Super Bowl, remember, and got a fistful of "boo!"s shoved right in her face.

Personally, I don't feel any sympathy for her since she didn't seem to incorporate any effort into her singing that one fateful day (except some gyrating, maybe: yawn!), and while the knowledge is present that not everyone's voices is going to be up to par, every day, all day, until the tour ends (or whatnot), I still see that heavy usage as a crutch for some kind of insecurities. A beautifyer, even. Besides the money-makin' aspect, a natural vocalist probably wouldn't need to electronically tweak his/her voice--fans don't bum rush the stage when a voice crackles.

I'd call it a musical defeat, but it has its uses. No respect for a lazybones who needs a backup track 'cause s/he flat-out can't sing, though. A-for-effort situations don't exist to large audiences.

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It's gonna be a glorious day
I feel my luck can change

The little time-wasting dance she did left me rolling around on the floor laughing....

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eh?

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This was brought up by a conversation that came up in chat yesterday about Ashlee Simpson and her lip synching fiasco. Seriously, I'd like to know what the big deal is. As this article points out, many MANY pop stars lip synch to prerecordings of their own voices and everyone knows it or, at least, should know it.

Just because it happens a lot doesn't make it any more acceptable. And that's one of the points I tried to hammer home when you were in chat. When Milli Vanilli was busted using a vocal track, they were thrown into the pit of music outcasts, never heard from again. Yet in this day and age, someone like talentless Ms. Simpson can do the exact same thing, and actually have it help her career. How hypocritical can one industry be? In the case of Milli Vanilli, "Exiled from music! How dare you lip-synch!". And Ashlee Simpson? "Oh, that's ok. We forgive you. Here, have a contract extension." Straight up BS.

It should be a big deal. If the artist is going to just fake sing, fake play guitar, what have you, the concert goer would've had the same experience had they stayed at home and put the cd in their cd player. People don't pay $40-$75 to go to an arena and listen to the cd. They want a real show. And artists who fake it are just cheating their fans of that real show. Let me tell you, if I went to a concert and found out that it was just a pre-recorded cd and not the band playing, I would be very upset.

I've given up on the whole "popular music" thing. Because it's true, and I still can't believe it, that in the music industry, music has taken the backseat to self-image. If you're hot, who cares how well, or not well, you sing? Image sells CDs. Image gets on the radio. Image gets you endorsements. And initially, image gets you on SNL so you can expose to the world what everyone already knows; that you're a talentless, voice-track using, full of excuses, use older sister's fame to get where you are, *****.

This post has been edited by Sabin on 22nd October 2005 15:23

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"When I turn the page
The corner bends into the perfect dog ear
As if the words knew I'd need them again
But at the time, I didn't see it."

~"This Ain't a Surfin' Movie" - Minus the Bear

It's always been a big deal to me, not just with popstars but with anyone claiming to be a musician. I walked out of a Static-X concert a few years ago because they had their album playing in the background and their mics weren't even turned on.

The big deal is that these people are making millions of dollars, performing shows for crowds, going on t.v. and all that, claiming to be a musician, when really all they're doing is mimicing what a musician WOULD be doing, make them in essence nothing more than scam artistists, which is illegal.

What happened to Milli Vanilli was probably the best situation, they got caught and it was exile for them. That anyone should get caught lip syching, it should be the on the spot death of their career. That a lot of artists do it doesn't mean it's "not such a big deal", it means that the actual talent in the music world is becoming harder and harder to find.

There's no justification for doing it. If your dance moves are too complicated, find a way around it. If you can't hit that pitch, don't put it in the song in the first place. You make yourself seem great through technology and session artists and then sell everyone else short and screw us all over. It's not right.

If you're going to make millions and millions of dollars for something you don't even really do, you should be thrown in jail, it's fraud. What's the difference then, between Ashlee Simpson and some random other little girl with her microphone turned off that can mimic the lip movements? It's bullshit no matter who does it.

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Okay, but there was a goat!

Quote (Sabin)

Just because it happens a lot doesn't make it any more acceptable.

Who ever said it was acceptable? I only said it was largely ignored. The fact that it becomes a big deal ONLY when someone gets caught is proof if this. Or perhaps the fact it's so widely ignored IS tantamount to acceptance? I don't know.

Quote (Sabin)

When Milli Vanilli was busted using a vocal track, they were thrown into the pit of music outcasts, never heard from again. Yet in this day and age, someone like talentless Ms. Simpson can do the exact same thing, and actually have it help her career. How hypocritical can one industry be? In the case of Milli Vanilli, "Exiled from music! How dare you lip-synch!". And Ashlee Simpson? "Oh, that's ok. We forgive you. Here, have a contract extension." Straight up BS.

SilverFork has already pointed out what the big difference is here, so I'll just relate an analogy. What Ashlee Simpson and her ilk do is like one writing a rough-draft paper and giving it to his English teacher to proof-read (sooo many mistakes, after all, but not worthy of expulsion). What Milli Vanilli did was more like plagiarizing and they clearly got what they deserved for it.

With regard to performers like Ashlee Simpson, I honestly wish there were lots more people like you, Sabin. If there were, we wouldn't have to suffer her like and I, for one, would be happy as a clam. Obviously (and sadly), that is not the case. In fact, why aren't more leaders like the country of Turkmenistan’s leader, Saparmurat Niyazov, the man who recently banned lip synching in his land?

The Masses: "Because he's a tyrant and a raving lunatic!"

Okay okay, well at least his lip synching ban makes sense .

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The big deal is that these people are making millions of dollars, performing shows for crowds, going on t.v. and all that, claiming to be a musician, when really all they're doing is mimicing what a musician WOULD be doing, make them in essence nothing more than scam artistists, which is illegal.
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There's no justification for doing it. If your dance moves are too complicated, find a way around it. If you can't hit that pitch, don't put it in the song in the first place. You make yourself seem great through technology and session artists and then sell everyone else short and screw us all over. It's not right.

Dragon_Fire, since ye jumped in before I could make me post, let me add that those people are making millions of dollars DESPITE the lip synching, not because they're fooling anyone. They're not. I'm sure most of these performers' fans already know they're lip synching. Those who don't buy probably disliked them regardless from the start. The only people who could possibly be getting screwed over are the potential REAL talent who fail miserably in the lip synchers' wake, which is indeed sad.

Edit

Ye know, it's also possible that some talented musicians actually make it because the success of the big lip synchers make it possible for labels to take a chance on those musicians, some even I might actually like, but I'd like to know how many of these labels also have artists like Primus or System of a Down signed on.

This post has been edited by Galsic on 22nd October 2005 21:57

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On the topic of musical honesty, I'd say I agree with Sabin. If you're lip-synching, or not really playing guitar, or anything of that sort, you're cheating, and I don't appreciate it.

On the topic of image, I, too, am disappointed that 'pop music' these days revolves this much around images. It's especially disturbing how much booty-shaking or scanty clothing can help a low-quality female singer rise to stardom. Of course, this isn't limited to sexah-chick-song genres; there're also gangsta-lookin' rappers, spiked-red-hair punk rockers, etc....What happened to those people who could simply present themselves as themselves, and let their music speak on its own? Musicians who can impress their audience with neither flashy lights nor wild appearances.

I know MTV wouldn't exist if the music video were never invented, but as a theoretical consideration, I wouldn't care--I still think the 'music' part is much more important than the 'video' part, which I rarely (if ever) bother to watch.

Quote (Galsic)

[W]ell at least his [Saparmurat Niyasov's] lip synching ban makes sense

I agree.

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Well, since I really don't listen to much music, save VG music, let alone Pop or whatever the genre is called (my knowledge lies in games, not music ), Here's a 3rd person's view of it all:
Chances are, major Idols do this sort of thing ALL THE TIME at life performances to ensure the performance doesn't go wrong at the fault of the performer. This is the decision of the Performer's agent (just like the lesbo Madonna/Brittney kiss was the choreographer's Idea), and the person playing the tapes is in a seperate room.

Another reason for prerecording is (according to my dad and Survivor by Chuck Palaniuk) is a slight delay in the process of transmitting the sound througout the stadium or whatever (take this with a grain of salt, i put no research into it)

It's not really cheating on the performer's fault IMO, but like I said, Music is not something I major in.

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Neneko is Neneko because Neneko couldn't be Neneko if Neneko wasn't Neneko!
--as quoted from Neneko, Mahoraba {Heartful Days}

I can stab a man with a thick paperback book thru the ribcage.

Quote (Galsic @ 22nd October 2005 15:26)

Dragon_Fire, since ye jumped in before I could make me post, let me add that those people are making millions of dollars DESPITE the lip synching, not because they're fooling anyone. They're not. I'm sure most of these performers' fans already know they're lip synching. Those who don't buy probably disliked them regardless from the start. The only people who could possibly be getting screwed over are the potential REAL talent who fail miserably in the lip synchers' wake, which is indeed sad.

I have to point out that in most cases, if you actually mention to a fan of any performer that they lip-synch, the fan gets incredibly defensive that you would even consider such a thing. They worship a talented singer, and accusing them of lip-synching is incredibly offensive to the fan. just look for reactions of madonna fans to what Elton John said this past year.

i reember a few years back, i saw an awards performance of Cher, that 'Do you believe?' song, and the vocal track was the exact same as the singing on the album, electronic gibbling and all. No one seemed to notice or care. But the question is, did they make it so obvious that if any one did point it out, it would be so blatantly obviously faking it that it's excusable? If they had recorded a new track to sound different than the album to synch to, technically, would that be worse? And is that Ashlee did, or was hers also the album version?



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The first duty in life is to assume a pose,
and the second duty is...well, no one's found out yet.

Britney Spears hasn't performed once where she actually sang...

Pop Stars do it all the time, it's nothing to get upset over, it comes with the territory. If you care about stuff like that Pop isn't the music for you anyway in my estimation...

Who goes to see these hacks in concert anyway?

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"That Light has bestowed upon me the greatest black magic!"

Quote (Jenny @ 23rd October 2005 22:18)

And is that Ashlee did, or was hers also the album version?

Nobody will ever know, though I rather doubt she went to the trouble of recording a new track to synch. What happened was this, and I would imagine you could find videos using Google very easily indeed.

She played the first song of her SNL set. Went off fine. Came out for the second song of the set, and the music that came on was a different song than what she wanted to perform. And then the track that's playing doesn't work right and flakes out just a bit. They cut the track, Simpson stands there for a second looking panicked, then does an odd little dance, and practically runs from the stage. Then, at the end of the show, she apologizes to the audience for her band playing the wrong song, which was clearly not the case. That's when the backlash started - it wasn't even as much the lip synching as it was the baldfaced lie to try to make her band look bad instead of her, IMO.

Edit

Oh, as an aside, E! showed the rerun of this show Saturday night. No big surprise, they cut out the performance described above. Shame, too, because it was the only funny thing I saw on that episode.

Edit

#2: Ancient, how is it that you know that she has never performed anything if you haven't actually seen her perform? I assume you haven't based on your comment about hacks.

Edit

Sigh, #3.

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Dragon_Fire, since ye jumped in before I could make me post, let me add that those people are making millions of dollars DESPITE the lip synching, not because they're fooling anyone. They're not. I'm sure most of these performers' fans already know they're lip synching. Those who don't buy probably disliked them regardless from the start. The only people who could possibly be getting screwed over are the potential REAL talent who fail miserably in the lip synchers' wake, which is indeed sad.

I don't think it's despite anything. I am just as certain that most of the fan base for bubblegum pop music doesn't know it or believe it as you are certain that they do know it and don't care. I will agree that the same fan base probably wouldn't care if they did know, but these tend not to be the most music-industry-savvy folks there are in the world.

This post has been edited by Rangers51 on 24th October 2005 15:56

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Quote (Rangers51 @ 24th October 2005 10:46)

I don't think it's despite anything. I am just as certain that most of the fan base for bubblegum pop music doesn't know it or believe it as you are certain that they do know it and don't care. I will agree that the same fan base probably wouldn't care if they did know, but these tend not to be the most music-industry-savvy folks there are in the world.

It's been revealed several times now that pop stars lip synch so I, personally, have a hard time believing that that many people are that naive. Who knows, maybe ye are right, but the only such fans I can believe being that naive are those of the pre-pubescent variety (which, in fact, are quite numerous). Of course, they also believe in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy, but they grow out of that.

This post has been edited by Galsic on 24th October 2005 16:47

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Quote (Rangers51 @ 24th October 2005 10:46)

#2: Ancient, how is it that you know that she has never performed anything if you haven't actually seen her perform? I assume you haven't based on your comment about hacks.

Awww...I was hoping someone would find fault with my comment given that I said that she never sings in concert and I clearly can't have seen all her concerts.

To answer your question, she was at one time hot enough to warrant me turning on that vile MTV network and even her "live" performances on TV were clearly lip synced and staged.

To my most secret shame, I once considered going to see Kelly Clarkson in concert....don't tell any of my face-to-face friends.

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it wasn't even as much the lip synching as it was the baldfaced lie to try to make her band look bad instead of her, IMO.

Yeah, you are probably right about that. Also if we remember the Milli Vanilli fiasco, they weren't only lip synching they were using someone elses voices as well. Although you could make an argument that the way some artists are digitized these days you aren't hearing their voices on a CD either.

That's why I only listen to Dave Grohl.

This post has been edited by The Ancient on 25th October 2005 20:41

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"That Light has bestowed upon me the greatest black magic!"