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Here's something that always bothered me.  Oh, wait, before I forget...

*WARNING: IN CASE YOU WERE FOR SOME REASON TOTALLY INCAPABLE OF READING THE BIG SPOILER WARNING IN THE TOPIC NAME, LET IT NOW BE KNOWN THAT THIS TOPIC HAS MAJOR SPOILERS DEALING WITH THE ENDING OF FINAL FANTASY VI.*

Ahem.  So, anyway, in the end of the game, the Magicites depart from earth, and magic disappears from the world.  Naturally, this means that none of the characters can use traditional spells (Cure3, Ultima, Meteo) any longer.  However, what does this mean for the magical Skills which some characters possess?

The most obvious example is Strago.  As a descendant of the original Mage Knights of Thamasa, he is capable of using Lore Blue Magic without the aid of Espers or Magicite.  The Blue Magic that he uses is totally different from any spell that you could learn using Magicite.  So, does he lose his ability to cast Lore Blue Magic as well as his ability to cast Magicite learned magic?

Relm and Gau also come to mind.  Relm's Sketch is obviously at least a bit magical in effect, likely due to her probable Mage Knight ancestry (though it is stated that Strago isn't her biological grandfather).  Would she then lose the Sketch ability after magic departs from the world?  Most of Gau's Rages actually allow him to use some magic that is otherwise Magicite learned.  Would he lose these but keep the rest of his Rage abilities, or lose the ability to Rage altogether?  Or is the monster-learned magic so different that he would keep all of them?

Some of the skills like Tool, Blitz, SwdTech, Mimic, Throw, etc. are totally non-magical (or at least derived from a completely different sort of magic) and would therefore be immune to this sort of elimination.  Other skills like Morph and Runic would be made totally obsolete by the departure of other magics, and therefore would probably be cancelled.  However, there still remains a large amount of "gray area" surrounding other skills like Mog's Dance and some of Setzer's Slot combinations.

So, what are your thoughts?

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"I always have a quotation for everything - it saves original thinking."
~Dorothy L. Sayers

"The truly remarkable thing about television is that it allows several million people to laugh at the same joke and still feel lonely."
~T.S. Eliot

"Defeat is not defeat unless accepted as reality - in your own mind!"
~ Bruce Lee

The most short and simple explanation that I can give is that the statues were said to be the source of ALL magic, not just one kind. Therefor I would have to say that all magic is gone. As for Strago and Relm, I believe that their ancestors were infused with magic ability during the war one-thousand years ago, in much the same way that Celes and Kefka were infused. I would have to say that even slightly magical abilitys (like Cyan's Empowerer) would become useless without the statues magic. I believe this is the sort of feeling square was trying to convey.

Well the best explanation that I can make is that it's one big plot hole that doesn't need to be filled because it all happens after the game which not too many people think about.  So basically Square made absolutely no explanation to this clear because they banked on no one ever noticing.

But now that I think about it, that is a good point.  I guess that even those "gray areas" that include even the slightest bit of magic were eliminated along with the obvious.

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I find your lack of faith disturbing...

i think that only the magic learned by espers would be gone.
which brings up something else, do you think the magic stoped working, ie. going through the moves for a spell but it doesn't work, or do you think that all the spells were wiped from their minds, ie. they remember doing the spell, but no matter how hard they try they can't remember how to do it?

The reason why these wars were caused is because of magic. When magic no longer exists, there is no reason to have magical skills. I assume Strago doesn't have long to live in this world. Relm would still be a gifted artist. Gau would still have the Rages but the magical skills learned from particular rages would be destroyed. I think Cyan and Sabin's skills are used through Ki (ref: Dragonball Z). Ki is short for Kinetic Energy and that wouldn't disappear from the world.

But really in a Fantasy world its hard to put a Scientific explanation toward these skills and phenomena.

i always believed that not only magic learned from espers are gone, but skills like Lore, rage, too. Although Strago didn't learn magic from espers, he probably learned from ancestors, who used to learn magic from espers.

For monster...maybe they got magic from espers...and...it's kind of like evolution

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I will be there...

Quote (MorgueN @ 5 Jan. 2003, 17:01)

I think Cyan and Sabin's skills are used through Ki (ref: Dragonball Z). Ki is short for Kinetic Energy and that wouldn't disappear from the world.

Well I'm not so sure about that.  I think Cyan and Sabin's skills are purely out of practice and physical ability.  I mean, you can run around and chop people four times with a katana, right?  Now just mulitply that by like 20 years of experience and training, then another 20 times for the fact he's just a video game character.  And you get Cyan.  Same thing for Sabin.  It's only them working their bodies until they can do that kind of stuff.

Now about the Ki comment.  You know, making DBZ references is bad enough, but then applying it to other things?  My, my.

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I find your lack of faith disturbing...

Quote (MorgueN @ 5 Jan. 2003, 17:01)

Ki is short for Kinetic Energy

heh.  right.  did dbz actually SAY that?

No its all a theory.

Quote (MorgueN @ 6 Jan. 2003, 15:51)

No its all a theory.

i hope you jest

most of the time. Nothing like a good stir.

Moderator Edit

I think there was a topic here once upon a time.  Could we get back to it please?

I'm with IP on this one.  All magic disappeared, as well as all the magical creatures that inhabited the FFVI world.  Anything remotely magical either died on the spot or faded away to legend and myth.

Relm can sketch till the cows come, but she aint bringin nothing to life anymore.  Gau remembers all the Rages he did, but since magic is gone, any spell he tries to perform will accomplish jack.  Strago is now just a crotchety old man with a funky hairstyle and walking stick.  Any slots Setzer has that relate to magic are now null and void and as for Mog.  Well, like the imps, he's a magical creature and so went the way of the aformentioned 'fading away to legend and myth'.  So his dancing's a moot point since he's gone anyway.

There...any bases I've not yet covered?

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Twarts

Quote (Narratorway @ 8 Jan. 2003, 19:31)

I'm with IP on this one.  All magic disappeared, as well as all the magical creatures that inhabited the FFVI world.  Anything remotely magical either died on the spot or faded away to legend and myth. Relm can sketch till the cows come, but she aint bringin nothing to life anymore.  Gau remembers all the Rages he did, but since magic is gone, any spell he tries to perform will accomplish jack.  Strago is now just a crotchety old man with a funky hairstyle and walking stick.  Any slots Setzer has that relate to magic are now null and void and as for Mog.  Well, like the imps, he's a magical creature and so went the way of the aformentioned 'fading away to legend and myth'.  So his dancing's a moot point since he's gone anyway. There...any bases I've not yet covered?

That's a pretty good explanation all round, except for that utterly ridiculous  part about moogles ceasing to exist.  

I actually have a decent reason to disagree.  It's not really stated that moogles are magical creatures in any way; Mog is the only moogle out of the band that can learn Dances, anyway, or at least as far as the game suggests.  I'm of the opinion that moogles are no less "magical" than Chocobos.

You do have a good point with the Imps, though.  With the departure of magic, I'd assume all of the imps would return to their original human form, since the spells binding them to their impish exteriors have departed from the world.

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"I always have a quotation for everything - it saves original thinking."
~Dorothy L. Sayers

"The truly remarkable thing about television is that it allows several million people to laugh at the same joke and still feel lonely."
~T.S. Eliot

"Defeat is not defeat unless accepted as reality - in your own mind!"
~ Bruce Lee

Instead of quoteing the last two posts, I'll assume that you know the gist of them.

I don't think that moogles are magical creatures. From playing other games (such as SoM) I would think that they are people in thier on right; therefor they would not cease to exist. The same goes for imps. Just because you can make someone an imp, doesn't mean that there are no real imps. (Here I refer to Imps as a creature seperate from the true english meaning of the word 'Imp', which refers to a devil). Case in point: FFIV pig and frog spells.

Also, If I'm correct, you'll find Mog on the Airship even after all the magicite and other magical atributes have dissapeared.

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All magic disappeared, as well as all the magical creatures that inhabited the FFVI world.  Anything remotely magical either died on the spot or faded away to legend and myth

What about Terra?  She didn't die or Fade away... she just change.  Couldn't other magical creatures do the same?

Edit:  I just woke up, and may not be thinking straight, plus it has been ages since I finished FF3.  Doesn't Terra just lose her esper half, and become human?



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"And that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana-shaped” -Sir Bedevere the Wise

You make good points about imps, IP.  I hadn't thought of it that way before.

As for Fadien, it seems your sleep-deprived memory has served you well!  It's usually interpreted that Terra loses her Esper alter-ego (and hence her ability to Morph) when the Magicite departs from the world.  I'm guessing Celes' Runic Blade would either cease to exist or be utterly useless.

Gogo's Mimic, on the other hand, seems to derive itself from a whole different set of (possibly non-magical) rules.  My belief that Gogo is actually FFV's Gogo secret boss supports this, since FFV's Gogo received his unique power from the shattered crystal.

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"I always have a quotation for everything - it saves original thinking."
~Dorothy L. Sayers

"The truly remarkable thing about television is that it allows several million people to laugh at the same joke and still feel lonely."
~T.S. Eliot

"Defeat is not defeat unless accepted as reality - in your own mind!"
~ Bruce Lee

Time to argue! (sure, it's just a debate now, but jes you wait...)

1: Terra survived because she wanted to.  If you remember, during the ending, her father tells her she can live as a human if she feels attached enough to her human self.

2: I figure Imps and Moogles are magical creatures that have just been around so long, they take longer to dissappear.  I never said they just go *poof* and then are never more.  Think of it more like a slow decline of a people that become more and more of a rarity until humans forget they ever actually existed.  Look at my sig and the riddle within and you may understand what I'm saying.

3: I don't think Chocobo's are magical.  I think of 'em more as the FF equivalent of a horse.  They're not magical, they don't go away.

4: For any other monster I mentioned, I figure if they only use magic to attack, they don't have enough of a firm grasp of this world to survive it.  Hence, they dissappear just like the espers.



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Any Magic that Monsters had would disappear weakening them as well. Purely magical Monsters are gone eg Behemoth. Perhaps even the undead. Though not on the phantom train.

I can agree that it is possible that Moogles would go into decline and become reclusive from the outside world, delving deep into the Caves of Narshe until their existence is treated by ignorant humans as a myth.  However, I would wholeheartedly disagree with the idea that the Moogles would disappear altogether, since there is absolutely no evidence in the game that they are inherently magical in any way.  (One could argue that Dance condemns them, but only Mog can learn it, and the spells it invokes are far different from Esper magic or even Strago's Lore, especially because it takes no MP).

I could see the reasoning behind the Chocobos staying, though.  While Moogles are an intelligent and self-sufficient race, the Chocobos are more or less simple domesticated animals.  So it would make more sense for them to stay, since they lack the level of sophistication that the Moogles possess.



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"I always have a quotation for everything - it saves original thinking."
~Dorothy L. Sayers

"The truly remarkable thing about television is that it allows several million people to laugh at the same joke and still feel lonely."
~T.S. Eliot

"Defeat is not defeat unless accepted as reality - in your own mind!"
~ Bruce Lee