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It has long been claimed by many that Final Fantasy VII was incomplete, an intended resurrection of Aerith being left out due to time constraints. While true that the original Japanese release suffered from time constraints, and despite pushing back the release date a full month to work on the game longer, they still failed to add in a pivotal scene of backstory (Cloud's flashback in the Shinra Mansion basement on Disc 3 in which remembers his and Zack's escape from Nibelheim), a boss fight against Diamond WEAPON, the two optional mega bosses (Ruby and Emerald WEAPONs), and a few other small things that were added into the North American release.

Once the game was released in Japan, they added these things in, having over half a year to program them in. Despite this, many fans having continued to argue that -- for whatever reason -- something as pivotal to the plot as Aerith being revived was not added in during the six months of extra time the developers were given to work on the matter, despite them adding in things like the WEAPON boss battles and a few other things that were insignificant in comparison to such a massive plot element as this.

There has been rumour after rumour after rumour that Aerith was either intended to be revived or could be. To this day, many who even are aware that Aerith can't be revived believe that the developers once intended for her to be. I now have the proof that such a resurrection was never intended, even from the inception of the idea.

In the May 2003 issue of the United Kingdom video game magazine known as EDGE (quite possibly the most professional, best organized, and all around greatest video game magazine around), there is a six-page "Making of..." feature on Final Fantasy VII (there's a six-page "Making of..." feature in the back of every issue they release), in which Yoshinori Kitase (Co-Scenario Writer and Director of Final Fantasy VII) and Tetsuya Nomura (Character Designer of Final Fantasy VII) are interviewed.

During the course of the interview, Nomura speaks about what he intended in coming up with Aerith's death, and Kitase speaks on the fans' responses to her death. Here follows that part of the interview, along with picture proof that this issue of the magazine exists, and that the interview and dialogue I speak of is present within the issue.

Nomura, concerning Aerith's death:

Quote

Back at the time we were designing the game, I was frustrated with the perennial cliche where the protagonist loves someone very much and so has to sacrifice himself and die in a dramatic fashion to express that love. We found this was the case in both games and movies, both easter and western. But I wanted to say something different, something realistic. I mean, is it right to set such an example to people?

Kitase follows that up with this:

Quote

In the real world, things are very different. You just need to look around you. Nobody wants to die that way. People die of disease and accident. Death comes suddenly and there is no notion of good or bad attached to it. It leaves, not a dramatic feeling, but a feeling of emptiness. When you lose someone you loved very much you feel this big empty space and think 'If I had knowni this was coming I would have done things differently.' These are the feelings I wanted to arouse in the players with Aerith's death relatively early in the game. Feelings of reality and not Hollywood."

Kitase, concerning the fans' responses to Aerith's death:

Quote

The world was expecting us to bring her back to life, as this is the classic convention. But we did not. We had decided this from the beginning. There was a lot of reaction from Japanese users. Some of them were very sad about it, while others were angry. We even received a lengthy petition addressed to our scenario writer asking for Aerith's revival. But there are many meanings in Aerith's death and that could never happen.

And here's the magazine shots. First, Kitase's words on Aerith being intended to remain dead:
Linkage.
Linkage 2.

Next, Nomura's words on Aerith's death:
Linkage.
Linkage 2.
Linkage 3.

The proof of the magazine's existance:
Linkage.
Linkage 2.
Linkage 3.
Linkage 4.
Linkage 5.
Linkage 6.
Linkage 7.
Linkage 8.
Linkage 9.

And there you have it. Proof from the Director and Co-Scenario Writer of Final Fantasy VII -- as well as the Producer of Advent Children -- that no revival of Aerith was ever intended.


I realize that for some here this wasn't needed, but I've found that even among many well-informed gamers, the concept that the idea was once intended was believed. I'm just making this to ensure that the facts of the matter are brought to light.

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My Final Fantasy VII Plot Analysis

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" — Edmund Burke

Very interesting. I agree with the developers that Aeris is better off dead. This does lay a bit of the rumor to rest, though.

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Veni, vidi, dormivi.

I always found Aeris resurection arguments to be, with all due respect, outright stupid and merely ideas that haven't been fully thought out. They do make for interesting and amusing rumors, though.

Thinking about it for just a few moments will make it pretty obvious Aeris just isn't resurectable, and never would have been even if Square would have had an extra year to work on FF7.

1- The ending video is 150 megs. A CD holds roughly 650 megs. Coupled with the other FMVs, the game data, the code, character/enemy/summon models, the prerendered backgrounds for every area, and so forth, there's very little space left on the CD. Definitely not enough to render a second 150 meg FMV (which is, also, the reason why Yuffie and Vincent aren't in the ending.)

2- Aeris' death is a turning point in the storyline. Bringing her back would involve changing the entire storyline, effectively splitting the game into two fully different storylines. Aeris' death is vital to the plot. The impact this would have is far too great and would severely hamper the denouement of the game.

3- Not exactly a point against, but frankly, why? Many characters die over the course of RPGs and very few, if any, are ever brought back. Despite highly questionable "hints" that Aeris should've been there past disc 1 (I reiterate the questionability of these points) there isn't a single reason why she should be resurectable. Could you bring back Leo? Or Tellah? Or Galuf? Or Josef? No? Ah, I see...

And, well, now we have official confirmation from the very people who made the game.

RIP, Aeris resurection rumors...

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

Well finally that clears that up! I've never been sure as to whether a revival for Aeris was intended or not.

Someone pointed out to me recently that had this actually been in the game, it would have ruined the plot. And as the guy says "But there are many meanings in Aerith's death and that could never happen." in reference to her beeing brought back by some means.

Her death was very important to the plot. I think that bringing her back to life would have resulted in the game being far less effective and not quite the master piece that it is.

Thank you for brining this evidence to light. It's nice to know that the story is exactly what it was intended to be.

This post has been edited by fatman on 21st May 2005 19:31

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'Let that be a lesson to all oppressive vegetable sellers.'

Let there be no more confusion then!

She's dead people.

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~Status Report~

* Completed... Dragon's Head
* Completed... Soldiers of the Empire: Disciples (release pending)
* In Progress/Undecided... Of Love and Betrayal
* Planning/Assembly... Where it all Began

While i only wanted believed aeris ressuerction rumors out of hope i never truely believed them. This evidence makes it clear and its very sad. Aeris was my favortie character and when i played it at a younger age i almost cried when aeris died.(very sad isnt it?)

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To be forgotten is worse than death.
-Freya FF9

Not really. I was probably about thirteen at the time when I saw that cut scene. I was pretty much in tears, because dude, when I saw that sword go through her, it hit me hard. I found it a huge shock.

I think the people that made the game really did their homework on figuring out how to affect people's emotions. It's one of the reasons the game has been voted best playstation game ever, so many times after it came out.

There were plent of other stupid rumours about this game anyway though, which could be considered a lot more crazy in my opinion. Surely everyone remembers 'how to fight the 5th weapon that is brown?' And how to have Cloud or Vincent equip the Mazamume (did I spell that right?) To think at the time of hearing those rumours, I thought there was even a possibility they were true!

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'Let that be a lesson to all oppressive vegetable sellers.'

When I saw it I wasn't sad I was pissed, Sephiroth had just killed my all time favorite character. Must kill. In the end though it was prabablt better for the games success that she stay dead.

Well, it certainly had quie an effect. Even the hardest anti-fanboy probably shed a tear when that threshold of drama and storytelling was breached. Not only was it an emotional evernt, it raised the bar in storyteling in videogames.
Now, I'm not going to say it was quite on the level of, say, Macbeth; but it certainly was a high point (by making a low point) for the genre.

Now, onto the resurrection... certainly was a logical move. After all, even in Final Fantasy, resurrecting the dead isn't all that common (don't confuse Pheonix Downs and getting knocked out with revival and death). Resurrecing her certainly would have gutted the effect of her death. I mean, who can truley feel bad for losing Aeris if she wasn't gone for good? To make the loss even worse, the writers developed her as someone that everyone would like, and many would love (cue the fanboys ); making her one of a kind (in personality, looks, and her heritige) makes the loss that much worse.
The result? A really wicked episode of Oprah, but less icky.
Well, all of the logical evidence has been put out as to why it's impossible, as well as the theatrical. Let's add to that this: the majority of resurrection theories that are started and spread are done so because of gamers in denial. The story touched them so much that they are actually grieving for a fictional character (as was the goal), but they can't resolve it normally, and are looking for an easy out; and what a better one than this: she's not actually dead!
Wrong. She's gone, never coming back (cept maybe in a fanfic, but that another release for denial). I recommend reading one of those memorial fanfics (the ones that honor Aeris's life, rather than reverse her death), since there can be no funeral for a videogame chaacter. That's why soldiers always hold a memorial for fallen comrades: they usually can't get to the funeral when deployed, and they need some method of closure, some way to say goodbye.

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M777: lightweight 155mm howitzer
3/11 rules over all artillery!

I was never fond of Aerith, but always wondered how the fans would have such a misperception of the character and her role in the game, as well as the game and its themes, as to make them ask for her resurrection.

Final Fantasy VII was a gritty game that emphasized the darkness of life and its fragility. Death can happen to everyone, including the Cetra. There was no reason why Aerith should be excluded from that fate. Wanting it to be otherwise is living in a kind of fairytale rainbow vision of life that is very far from FFVII’s atmosphere.

Also, Resurrection in stories usually happens in two ways. 1- to gods and 2- by gods. Clearly, it’s not going to happen here. Other methods to maintain a hold on life involves grotesque life-in-death situations, as with Sephiroth and his undying alien cells. This is not what Aerith was about. She was human.



This post has been edited by manapriestess on 29th May 2005 00:57

Plus, she was ready to die. She needed to be one with the planet to summon Holy. So she had accepted that it was her fate. It sucks, but there you go.

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Kupo!

Where'd you get hold of an old mag like that anyway? =P

Fehe, I don't think they'll ever top her death. And they have tried! Like

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

the queen

in IX, and even

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

Tidus

in X.

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

The queen you just couldn't care too much about, and Tidus they dared to bring back!

Guh.

I'm still waiting for...well, any game to top that death. =P

This post has been edited by Mu the Squirrel on 29th May 2005 21:34

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The Arcana are the means by which ALL is revealed.

Thanks for fixing the above, Mu. Luckily, I did hear something like it before (well, not lucky for me, but anyway).

Quote (yunakitty @ 29th May 2005 11:00)

Plus, she was ready to die.  She needed to be one with the planet to summon Holy.  So she had accepted that it was her fate.  It sucks, but there you go.

Actually, this is another point I always disagreed with. Doesn't what the writer above said contradicts this view as well? Please observe:

Quote

I was frustrated with the perennial cliche where the protagonist loves someone very much and so has to sacrifice himself and die in a dramatic fashion to express that love. I wanted to say something different, something realistic. I mean, is it right to set such an example to people?

In the real world, things are very different. You just need to look around you. Nobody wants to die that way. People die of disease and accident. Death comes suddenly and there is no notion of good or bad attached to it. It leaves, not a dramatic feeling, but a feeling of emptiness. When you lose someone you loved very much you feel this big empty space and think 'If I had known this was coming I would have done things differently.' These are the feelings I wanted to arouse in the players with Aerith's death relatively early in the game. Feelings of reality and not Hollywood."

So, the writers were trying to get AWAY from were the entire "people sacrificing themselves for each other deliberately." They were trying to get AWAY from a view of Aerith's death as foreseen by her, planned by her, or sacrificial. They were emphasizing the realism of it as being sudden, non-sacrificial, unforeseen, etc.

I never liked sacrificial Aerith either, and always said that she didn't foresee her death. I'm glad that the creators didn't see it that way either, at least as indicated by the above interview.

This post has been edited by manapriestess on 30th May 2005 01:18

Heh, sorry. I actually meant to spoiler them as I did the final comment. ^^``

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The Arcana are the means by which ALL is revealed.

Manapriestess is correct about Aerith not foreseeing her death. For that matter, nothing in the game suggests that death was required for Holy. Here's a more in-depth explanation I've written on the matter previously:

Quote (Squall of SeeD)

The death of Aerith in Final Fantasy VII, a large turning point in the narrative, and one of the most memorable scenes in video game history, was not needed in order for the Spell known as Holy to be activated, as is often believed to be the case. Further, it does not seem that she knew she would die in praying for Holy, her death having come upon her unexpectedly rather than her choosing to sacrifice herself, as is also often believed to be the case. I will here attempt to explain away the fallacies in these beliefs and reveal the truth.

First, in regard to Aerith being aware of her imminent death and choosing to sacrifice herself, this was not the case at all. In the May 2003 issue of EDGE magazine (issue 123), there is a six-page "Making of..." feature on Final Fantasy VII in which Yoshinori Kitase (Director and Co-Scenario Writer of Final Fantasy VII) and Tetsuya Nomura (Character Designer of Final Fantasy VII) were interviewed and asked about various points concerning Aerith's death. During the course of this interview, Nomura says the following:

"Back at the time we were designing the game, I was frustrated with the perennial cliche where the protagonist loves someone very much and so has to sacrifice himself and die in a dramatic fashion to express that love. We found this was the case in both games and movies, both easter and western. But I wanted to say something different, something realistic. I mean, is it right to set such an example to people?"

Kitase follows that up with this:
"In the real world, things are very different. You just need to look around you. Nobody wants to die that way. People die of disease and accident. Death comes suddenly and there is no notion of good or bad attached to it. It leaves, not a dramatic feeling, but a feeling of emptiness. When you lose someone you loved very much you feel this big empty space and think 'If I had known this was coming I would have done things differently.' These are the feelings I wanted to arouse in the players with Aerith's death relatively early in the game. Feelings of reality and not Hollywood."

(For proof of this magazine's existance, the "Making of..." feature, and the dialogue in the interview, refer to these images:

Nomura's thoughts concerning Aerith's death.
Nomura's thoughts concerning Aerith's death (Part 2).
Nomura's thoughts concerning Aerith's death (Part 3).
Kitase's Thoughts on Aerith's Death.
Kitase's Thoughts on Aerith's Death (Part 2).
Kitase's Thoughts on Aerith's Death (Part 3).
EDGE Magazine: May 2003; Issue 123.
"May 2003".
The Making of Final Fantasy VII.
The Making of Final Fantasy VII (Part 2).
The Making of Final Fantasy VII (Part 3).
The Making of Final Fantasy VII (Part 4).
The Making of Final Fantasy VII (Part 5).
The Making of Final Fantasy VII (Part 6).
The Making of Final Fantasy VII (Part 7).)


With Kitase's words about death being unexpected in mind, consider Cloud's dream in which he speaks to Aerith in the Sleeping Forest.  Aerith intended to handle JENOVA/Sephiroth on her own, and then come back:

Quote

Aerith
        "And let me handle Sephiroth."

Aerith
        "And Cloud, you take care of yourself."

Aerith
        "So you don't have a breakdown, okay?"

Cloud
        "What is this place?"

Aerith
        "This forest leads to the City of the Ancients... and is called Sleeping Forest."

Aerith
        "It's only a matter of time before Sephiroth uses Meteor."
        "That's why I'm going to protect it. Only a survivor of the Cetra, like me, can do it."

Aerith
        "The secret is just up here."

Aerith
        "At least it should be. ...I feel it. It feels like I'm being led by something."

Aerith
        "Then, I'll be going now. I'll come back when it's all over."

Also consider Tifa's insight into her friend's intentions:

Quote

Tifa
        "I wonder what Aerith felt... when she was on that altar...?"

Cloud
        "I'm sure she wanted to give her life for the planet..."

Tifa
        "Really? I wonder? I don't think that's it at all."
        "I think she didn't think she would die at all, but that she planned on coming back all along."
        "She always used to talk about the 'Next time'."
        "She talked about the future more that any of us..."

Further note that in Aerith's dialogue with Cloud in his dream, she didn't know what she was going to find when she got to the City of the Ancients. She only knew that something was awaiting her there and that she could feel herself being led there. Based on Bugenhagen learning of Holy when he got there from the knowledge floating around in the City, it's logical to assume that Aerith did likewise:

Quote

Bugenhagen
        "This is..."

Bugenhagen
        "Yes...... exactly..."

Cloud
        "Are you getting something?"

Bugenhagen
        "...Give me a moment."

Bugenhagen
        "The knowledge of the Ancients swirling around here is telling me
one thing."

Bugenhagen
        "The planet's in a crisis..."

Bugenhagen
        "A crisis beyond human power or endless time."
        "It says, when the time comes, we must search for 'Holy'."

Cloud
        "Holy?"

Bugenhagen
        "Holy... the ultimate White Magic. Magic that might stand against
Meteor. Perhaps our last hope to save the planet from Meteor."

Aerith clearly had no intentions of dying, nor did she know she would. Her sudden death was as much a surprise for her as it was for many players of the game. Kitase intended this to be so.

While it has been argued that Aerith's statement that "only a Cetra like me" could handle things in Cloud's dream, note that she was referring to protecting the Planet, as the Cetra were once its caretakers:

Quote

Aerith
        "It's only a matter of time before Sephiroth uses Meteor."
        "That's why I'm going to protect it. Only a survivor of the Cetra, like me, can do it."

For that matter, recall that she didn't even know what she would find when she got to the City of the Ancients, only that she felt as though she was being led by something and would find the answer when she got there.

With that said, we'll move now to the matter of Aerith's death being required for Holy to be activated. The fact that Aerith didn't intend to die nor knew that she would alone is enough to suggest it isn't so, but we'll examine each point in regard to the matter without considering that. First, consider that the Black Materia -- the key to activating Meteor, the ultimate Black Magic -- didn't require a death in order to summon Meteor. While true that the Cait Sith construct had to remain in the Temple of the Ancients and be crushed to transform the Temple into the Materia -- as someone had to remain inside and die -- this was to transform the Temple and make the Materia accessible and usable, not to actually use the Materia itself.

The White Materia logically wouldn't require a death either. The Black and White Materias were like any other Materia in this respect, as we're not shown any other Materia that required a death in order for them to function, nor is it suggested that the White or Black Materias required such a sacrifice.

Also consider this: JENOVA/Sephiroth knew how the Black Materia worked. Her/his/its/their entire plan revolved around using the Black Materia to summon Meteor, dealing a fatal wound to the Planet, which the Lifestream would then attempt to heal, pouring out a huge amount of energy, which it/he/they would then absorb. Knowing how the Black Materia worked, JENOVA/Sephiroth would logically also know how the White Materia worked from having been in the Lifestream. And obviously JENOVA /Sephiroth did know about the White Materia, as she/he/it/they attempted to kill Aerith before she could summon Holy, and was holding Holy back for the entire course of the game after Aerith summoned it:

Quote

Cloud
        "Thank you... Aerith."
        "Aerith's voice has already reached the Planet. Just look at the glow of the White Materia."
        "But...... how about Holy? How come Holy isn't moving?"

Cloud
        "Why?"

Bugenhagen
        "Something's getting in its way."

If it were true that Aerith' death was required for Holy to work -- and, again, no other Materia, including the Black Materia, is shown to require a death to function -- then it would have been counterproductive to kill Aerith. If JENOVA/Sephiroth's intentions were to summon Meteor, initiating the key to activating Holy (which could conceivably negate Meteor) would be undermining her/his/its/their entire plan. Logically, it makes no sense whatsoever for Sephiroth/JENOVA to kill Aerith if her death would be required for Holy to function. Granted, one could argue that it/he/she/they were attempting to kill her before her death would matter, but that's stepping a bit outside the realm of reasonable assumption.

Further consider that it is shown that activating Holy didn't require death when the function of the White Materia is explained.

Quote

Bugenhagen
"If a soul seeking Holy reaches the planet, it will appear."

Many take this to mean that Aerith's spirit had to reach the center of the Planet in order to activate Holy, however, in conjunction with the rest of what Bugenhagen says, this is shown to not be the case at all, as "reach"-ing the Planet in this case, merely meant "communicating with the Planet" through the White Materia:

Quote

Cloud
        "Search for Holy... How do we do it?"

Bugenhagen
        "Speak to the planet."
        "Get the White Materia... This will bond the Planet to humans."

Bugenhagen
        "Then speak to the planet."
        "If our wish reaches the planet, the White Materia will begin to glow a pale green."

The matter was as simple as that.

Anyone who had the White Materia could have prayed for Holy, and "reached" the Planet, as the White Materia opened a line of communication between its holder and the Planet itself. It's possible that being at the City of the Ancients wasn't even required, since Aerith was only performing the prayer there because she learned about the White Materia's function there. The concept of establishing a link between oneself and the Planet through the White Materia isn't really any different than using any other Materia, as all Materia contain knowledge of those who have lived and died in the past, with these memories and knowledge acting as a link between the wielder of the Materia and the Planet itself:

(Stated by Sephiroth in Nibelheim during the mission there five years before the main events of the game.)

Quote

"...the knowledge and wisdom of the Ancients is held in the
materia."
        "Anyone with this knowledge can freely use the powers of the Land
and the Planet. That knowledge interacts between ourselves and the planet
calling up magic..... or so they say."

For a final point, if establishing a mental/spiritual connection with the Planet through the White Materia were not needed, and only dying was, Aerith could have as easily thrown herself off a cliff or stood out in the open and called out to JENOVA/Sephiroth to come kill her, rather than going about things as she did.

This is not to take anything away from Aerith, or to say that what she did wasn't heroic -- for she indeed displayed heroism in traveling to the City of the Ancients on her own -- but to point out the facts surrounding what she did. From the quotes from the script seen above and the interview with Nomura and Kitase in EDGE magazine, it is obvious that she did not expect to die, and by the evidence pertaining to the Black Materia, Materia in general, and JENOVA/Sephiroth's knowledge of the Black and -- likely -- the White Materia, as well as the quotes that establish that all that was required to activate Holy was connecting to the Planet, it can be seen that her death was not necessary in order for Holy to come forth.

However, that said, it is likely that Aerith's presence in the Lifestream allowed her to somehow manipulate it, or convince those who were part of it to aid in thwarting Meteor during the ending, rather than allow it to cause the deaths of most, if not all, living things on the Planet. Her theme playing as the Lifestream rises to add strength to Holy in combating Meteor and then her appearance after Holy flashes and negates Meteor certainly suggests this.

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My Final Fantasy VII Plot Analysis

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" — Edmund Burke

Heh, I think that the entire culture of Aerith myths—as followed—
1. She foresaw her death; or
2. She sacrificed herself for the planet/for Cloud; or
3. She could be/should be resurrected

— grew out of the fact that people liked her and did not want her to die. A testimony to the success of the creators, in a way, in making her death important and people care about her as a character.

However, it is also extremely ironic, given that the creators wanted to get away from all these myths in the first place. It’s also a testimony to the power of those clichés. The specter of all those Hollywood clichés that Kitase and Nomura were trying to avoid was simply too powerful, and instead of Aerith’s death refuting any of them, it attracted them even more strongly. Irony indeed…

I never believed any of it, though. Mystical Aerith is fun to conjure, but I always thought that she was meant to be depicted as a regular girl who died tragically. In many ways, isn’t it just as tragic and meaningful as any other Hollywood myth that Nomura/Kitase were trying to refute? In fact, unfair, meaningless tragedy was always my favorite kind, because it’s so realistic and true to life.

Quote (manapriestess @ 30th May 2005 17:23)

...she was meant to be depicted as a regular girl who died tragically.

I would dispute that statement.

The plot clearly reveals that Aeris is no ordinary human; even in her youth, her adoptive mother has known about her highly unusual abilities.

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

The one thing she doesn't quite know (given my knowledge of FFVII's plot) is how to use the White Materia.

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Check the "What games are you playing at the moment?" thread for updates on what I've been playing.

You can find me on the Fediverse! I use Mastodon, where I am @[email protected] ( https://sakurajima.moe/@glennmagusharvey )

Quote (Glenn Magus Harvey @ 31st May 2005 03:24)

Quote (manapriestess @ 30th May 2005 17:23)

...she was meant to be depicted as a regular girl who died tragically.

I would dispute that statement.

The plot clearly reveals that Aeris is no ordinary human; even in her youth, her adoptive mother has known about her highly unusual abilities.

By "regular girl" I don't mean that she was completley ordinary. Clearly, she had some unusual abilities due to her Cetra heritage.

What I mean by 'regular girl' was that she was not meant to foresee her death, or seek it actively to sacrifice herself on purpose, which are unusual traits, and furthermore not in character for Aerith as depicted in FF7. The the words of Nomura and Co. above seem to reinforce this.

Aerith was meant to be a human with some unusually sensitive spiritual vibes. The Cetra were human- they were able to reproduce with humans, for one.

Addition- as regards to Aerith's actual Cetra abilities, she appeared to be able to hear people's voices after their death, which may explain the speculations that she did foresee her death. But there's little to support this contention except Cloud's own words, where he merely speculates about it, and is immediately contradicted by Tifa.

Did the Cetra have the ability to foresee any death, their own or others people's? Well, Aerith's mother did not appear to know that Shinra were coming to murder her husband, so it seems more unlikely than not.


This post has been edited by manapriestess on 1st June 2005 00:07

I was freakin out when she died because she was the one who kept my party alive with her Healing Wind (or wtv its called? havent played in about 3years) Limit lololol.
I didnt see it coming, considering it was my 1st PS RPG, and didnt expect it to be so well thought out and what not. Very impressive game. But yeah she dies, and it is necessary for the game to have the effect that it did. Sometimes horrible things are just needed for something to have such a great effect on the viewers/gamers. Like when Ani betrayed the Jedi....oh geez i was freakin out....that bastard

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Captain on the Bridge!

She did not expect to die. Does ean she wasn't willing to die if necessary? Does that make it less heroic than sacrificing herself? Personally, I say no, but that's more opinion than anything else.
Personally, I always thought she was not a regular girl, even without her Cetra heritage and such. Her personality was quite an unusual one; her most endearing quality was what made her so unique. If she had been a morose or negative person, her death would not have had nearly such an effect.
Also, I made a bit of an observation concerning the two special materias. Aeris uses the White Materia just prior to her death, long before Sephiroth ever gets ahold of the Black Materia (the scene in the crater). That means Sephiroth was aware enough before being awoken (when teh black materia was used and all hell broke loose) to use whatever he did to trap Holy. Whatever it was trapping Holy, it wasn't released until a while after Sephiroth's defeat (physically and spiritually).

--------------------

M777: lightweight 155mm howitzer
3/11 rules over all artillery!

Quote (bahamut0013 @ 3rd June 2005 22:37)

Also, I made a bit of an observation concerning the two special materias. Aeris uses the White Materia just prior to her death, long before Sephiroth ever gets ahold of the Black Materia (the scene in the crater). That means Sephiroth was aware enough before being awoken (when teh black materia was used and all hell broke loose) to use whatever he did to trap Holy. Whatever it was trapping Holy, it wasn't released until a while after Sephiroth's defeat (physically and spiritually).

JENOVA/Sephiroth actually had the Black Materia before Aerith ever died, seeing as Cloud handed it over to a Sephiroth form in the pit where the Temple of the Ancients once sat. However, it's not implied that the Black Materia had anything to do with holding back Holy, nor is it implied that Sephiroth wasn't awake until it was used.

A lot of people came to the conclusion that it somehow "revived" or "resuscitated" him, but that was never suggested by the game and I've never understood where that belief arose from. No other Materia did such a thing, and it's not as though Sephiroth's eyes opened when the Black Materia was used. For that matter, he/JENOVA had to be conscious in order to utilize the Materia through him in the first place.


Anyway, I think the game made it quite clear that JENOVA/Sephiroth's will was what held back Holy. It wasn't until Cloud had won that mental battle during the game's ending that we see flashes occurring down in the pit at the center of the Planet and Holy finally begins to move.

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My Final Fantasy VII Plot Analysis

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" — Edmund Burke

while im not saying that aeris foretold her death, here is a point to consider - when the characters were talking about the black materia, they said that no ordinary human would be able to use it, it required a great amount of spiritual energy - would that not be the same with the white materia? sephiroth was surrounded by spiritual energy and natural materia, as well as being intensely altered by jenova - aeris said in the beginning of the game that her materia did nothing - so it would seem that she couldnt use holy by herself either, so her returning to the lifestream would give her the energy to use the white materia, yes? as she died, holy began glowing
eh, theres my two cents

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Slow and steady wont win at the gold saucer
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Quote (Malshun @ 22nd June 2005 03:26)

while im not saying that aeris foretold her death, here is a point to consider - when the characters were talking about the black materia, they said that no ordinary human would be able to use it, it required a great amount of spiritual energy - would that not be the same with the white materia? sephiroth was surrounded by spiritual energy and natural materia, as well as being intensely altered by jenova - aeris said in the beginning of the game that her materia did nothing - so it would seem that she couldnt use holy by herself either, so her returning to the lifestream would give her the energy to use the white materia, yes? as she died, holy began glowing
eh, theres my two cents

That's not how it worked, no. Bugenhagen explains in the City of the Ancients (learning how himself from the knowledge of the Ancients that was entering his mind at the time) how to use the White Materia and he says nothing of it requiring such an enormous amount of Spirit Energy.

Aerith's Holy Materia only did nothing early on because she had no idea what it did or how to use it.

Anyway, the creators gave us proof that Aerith didn't know she was going to die both through the interview in EDGE and with the game's script itself, in which they emphasise that she intended to come back from the Ancient City all along but never got the chance.

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My Final Fantasy VII Plot Analysis

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" — Edmund Burke

I was never taken aback by Aeris' death that much, possibly cause I think I knew it was coming ahead of time. But what I don't get is why everyone says it was Square's first big tragedy...

Tellah
The Twins (although they were revived, but at the very very end of the game after you have already thought they weren't coming back)
The World of Balance.....



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"That Light has bestowed upon me the greatest black magic!"

Quote (The Ancient @ 23rd June 2005 07:57)

But what I don't get is why everyone says it was Square's first big tragedy...

Tellah
The Twins (although they were revived, but at the very very end of the game after you have already thought they weren't coming back)
The World of Balance.....

Well, you do have a point. There were tragedies in FF games before Aeris. But I think the impact has to do with who the character was, and her role in the game.

I want to talk about the WoR before I compare character deaths, because I've always thought the term "end of the world" was a little inappropriate. The world gets shaken up a bit, sure, but it doesn't "end" by any means. With the exceptions of Mobliz and Narshe, life pretty much stays the same for people. In fact, a lot of the NPCs don't even move from their positions in the WoB. So I don't think it's as tragic as it's made out to be.

As for character deaths, in earlier FF games they were usually offest by a resurrection. You mentioned the twins in FFIV. True, you didn't THINK they were going to come back, but they did, and thus true tragedy was averted. Same goes for Yang in FFIV and Leon in FFII. A lot of the pre-FF7 deaths that didn't result in resurrection, such as Edge's parents and Anna, were NPCs that the player couldn't really identify with.

Off the top of my head, here's a list of playable pre-FF7 characters that died and weren't resurrected: Tellah, Galuf, Leo.

The deaths of Tellah and Galuf could definitely be seen as tragic, no doubt. But unlike Aeris, Tellah and Galuf had lived most of their natural lives. They were old when they died.

Leo's death seemed to resonate a lot more with gamers. Perhaps because he was seen as a noble character who, despite working for the Empire, had no geniunely bad qualities about him. His death, like many of Kefka's murders, was random, stupid, and pointless. This probably caused anger in gamers who were used to death serving some kind of purpose.

But Leo was never central to the storyline. He never really "joined" your party (the one scene where you play as him, the other characters are knocked out). He's popular, no doubt about it, and his death had an effect, but being a fringe character probably lessened the impact. Also, he was a warrior, and though his death was pointless, it's not entirely unexpected for a warrior to die in battle.

Why does Aeris' death matter more?

Well, first of all, she's young. I think gamers around her age (22), or even much younger, could relate with her more than they related to two old men. Also, her death was illustrated in 3D FMV graphics that were about as real as you could get at the time. That made her death more realistic than Kefka jumping onto Leo while the screen turned red.

She's also central to the stoyline. She's part of the game from the opening shot, when she becomes the first character we see. From that point forward, she is constantly by the side of Cloud and co., sharing her stories and her innocent outlook on life.

And in the end, I think it's that innocence that makes her death matter the most. Leo was a general in an army, Aeris was a flower girl who cared about her friends and wanted to bring peace to the world. The last thing Leo does before he dies is fight Kefka. The last thing Aeris does before she dies is look at Cloud and smile.

i totally agree with metroid - she was the ONE character that you'd think would make it to the end, so to speak, and the end smile, frankly that haunted me for, like a month after i saw it - then of course, amidst this tragedy, they barely have time to mourn for her, as sephiroth, grinning (a smug little grin that, im sure, infuriated most, if not all of us) tosses jenova at them - plus, as said in another thread, the music in this game is quite good, and fits well with all of the scenes - i also think that it was a good idea that they kept that music going through the jenova fight

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-In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams
Slow and steady wont win at the gold saucer
-me

Quote (MetroidMorphBall @ 23rd June 2005 22:40)

With the exceptions of Mobliz and Narshe, life pretty much stays the same for people.

Most of your post I agree with except for this part. I think a huge theme for the latter half of the game was how miserable the world had become and how the heroes(as well as some others) were able to look past "the end of the world" and find that hope and life could continue. I think most of the towns in the game were seriously altered by the split of the world and the continued hardships afterwards. Some locations cease to exist, and we witness people die and children seperated from their parents during the actual split. I think it was definately as equally tragic as Aeris's death, but back then we didn't have fancy FMV's and CD quality music to accompany tragedy so it's softened a little.

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"That Light has bestowed upon me the greatest black magic!"

Quote (The Ancient @ 24th June 2005 11:47)

I think most of the towns in the game were seriously altered by the split of the world and the continued hardships afterwards.  Some locations cease to exist

Well, the only town that disappears off the map is Vector, and Vector had already been torched by the Espers so it wasn't much of a loss. Every other town remains on the world map. The only towns that are really devastated are Narshe and Mobliz. Tzen gets hit by the Light of Judgement, which causes a house to collapse (with no fatalities, I might add, as Sabin rescues the child).

It was really more of a "rearranging" of the world than an "end" of the world. When Aeris dies, there is a finality to it. She never comes back. By comparison, things remain so similar from the WoB to the WoR that it's hard to feel a sense of permanent loss except in the towns I mentioned.

personally, it'd be alot harder for me to feel as bad for a town full of people i didnt know, if it died, then i would if a close friend died
(i think you guys are talking about towns....? vector? espers? im lost :-P)
and that is the "big deal" about aeris - they tried hard to make you like her, and while it may not have worked on some people, im sure it did for the majority

--------------------

-In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams
Slow and steady wont win at the gold saucer
-me

I thought aeris's death was a dramatic turn in the story that really gave it meaning to kill sephiroth and kept you going in the game

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"Algus! You killed Teta! I'll kill you! I swear it! - Delita Hyral

"The time is.... now..." -Sephiroth