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Quote (Silverlance @ 16th June 2005 22:55)

Find me a rap song that doesn't deal at all with the themes people have been bringing up in this thread as cliché, and I'll be downright impressed. You'd probably be shutting up a lot of people who've posted negative feelings towards rap, too. So it's your call... Peace.

"The Journey" written by Lateef Daumont on the Fayboy Slim album "Palookaville."

Quote

That journey-a call me quick,
That journey-a call my name,
That journey-a have it's way,
an' have me wonderin' all my days
That journey-a call me quick,
That journey-a call my name,
That journey-a have it's way,
an' have me wonderin' all my days.

I can't stay home, I gotta keep movin,
I gotta keep doin', I gotta get out,
I gotta roam, it's somethin' that moves me,
It's somethin' that uses me without a doubt,
'cause somewhere abstract coincidence happens,
see someone in passin' while out and about,
next thing I know I'm happily travelin',
puttin' in action ideas that I mouth,
cause I speak it and do it, talk it and walk it,
I'm so bad about it, I shout it out loud,
but try to stay open, the forces in motion,
They keep me on course, it's just clear that i've found
Imprissoned in flesh and reality's blesses,
that made manifest every woman and child,
I'll keep on expressin' reality's lessons,
explorin' my prison until I'm let out.

That journey-a call me quick,
That journey-a call my name,
That journey-a have it's way,
an' have me wonderin' all my days
That journey-a call me quick,
That journey-a call my name,
That journey-a have it's way,
have me wonderin' all my days.

Travelin' East and West, on every known highway,
South to North carryin' that torch until I'm old and grey.

Well in the mean time inbetween I'm pushin' through this,
I said in the main time inbetween I'm on my duty.

Sometimes I get beat up, sometimes I'm the beater,
Sometimes man my feet hurt from walkin' so long,
Sometimes I'm defeated, sometimes I get cheated,
Sometimes I just need it, 'cause sometimes I'm wrong,
So the question's repeated, why even try?
When there's rocks in the road, pot-holes in the lawn,
The victory's sweeter when obstacles either,
Are side-stepped or crushed on the way to the door,
So I go on my own, have faith in the road,
I can share that control cause I'm never alone.
I hear the creator speak to me through wispers,
On winds the voices of friends and of foes,
I listen to omens, the things that he shows me,
Shows that he knows me and helps me along,
And follow him closely, where he goes mostly,
Guidin' my path on this map 'till I'm gone

That journey-a call me quick,
That journey-a call my name,
That journey-a have it's way,
an' have me wonderin' all my days
That journey-a call me quick,
That journey-a call my name,
That journey-a have it's way,
an' have me wonderin' all my days.

And when they lay me down,
To rest in my Earthly grave,
And when they lay me down,
Navigate that big sky wave.

But in the meantime I, I got my duty,
In the meantime inbetween time I, I got to do this,
In the meantime inbetween time I, I'm pushin through this,
In the meantime inbetween time I, I got my duty.

I got my.. I got my, I got my duty. I got my duty I know!

Quote (Silverlance @ 16th June 2005 23:55)

Find me a rap song that doesn't deal at all with the themes people have been bringing up in this thread as cliché, and I'll be downright impressed. You'd probably be shutting up a lot of people who've posted negative feelings towards rap, too. So it's your call... Peace.

Nothing will shut you up, I'm sure. But I'll toss one in, too, by an artist Sabin mentioned - Saul Williams. Here's a verse from "Black Stacey" that is not only not about the gangsta rap lifestyle, but actually calls those rappers out and tells them to stop hiding behind the tough guy persona. Sorry for the bad formatting, and perhaps a couple incorrect words. I didn't feel like fixing it - the content is the key.

Quote

Now here's a little
message for you.
All you baller playa's got
some insecurities too, that you could cover up, bling it up, cash in
and ching ching it up, hope no
one will bring it up, lock it down and string it up.
Or you can share your essence with us, 'cause everything about you couldn't be rugged
and ruff.
And even though you tote a glock and you're hot on the streets,
if you dare to share your heart, we'll nod our heart to its beat.
And you should do that, if nothing else, to prove
that a player like you could keep it honest and true. Don't mean to call your bluff but
mothaf***a that's what I do.
You got platinum chain
then, son, I'm probably talking to you.
And you can call your gang, your posse and the rest of your crew.
And while you're at it get them addicts and the indigent too. I plan to have a whole army
by the time that I'm through to load their guns with songs they haven't sung.

And, honestly, I'm not sure that calling out your preferred genre really makes you less a hypocrite in this situation. You seem to imply that people could say that about your genre, but they'd be wrong, and you give examples that require thorough knowledge about the bands. So I suppose you'll have to back down from your generalisation about rap, since you seem to lack the thorough knowledge, no? Note that this is a rhetorical question - I'm not going to spend time debating it. It's just something for you to think about.

That said, as per the original topic, I think the reasons stated already are most of the reason that rap is hated by a lot of people. Are they good reasons? Not necessarily. I'll be honest, what little I listen to rap is influenced a lot by the fact that the mainstream does sound the same to me. It would get boring to me to get involved in the mainstream rap genre, due to that. And I'll be honest, part of me does not want to be lumped into that culture. It's not who I am.

I think if this thread has taught anything, it's that every genre can be disliked for the same reason, depending on who you talk to.

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"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN?

Not all Rap is bad some is realy good like Cross movement and Grits. They are both amazining in that they rap about Biblical themes with out using the things listed by Silverlance. So for all you fans of rap out there have a listen to Cross movement and see if you like it or not.

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Quote

Psalms 148: 7-9, 11(a), 13. Praise the LORD from the earth, ye dragons, and all deeps: Fire, and hail; snow, and vapor; stormy wind fulfilling his word: Mountains, and all hills; Kings of the earth, and all people; Let them praise the name of the LORD: for his name alone is excellent; his glory is above the earth and heaven.

Quote (Silverlance @ 16th June 2005 20:09)

"Whatchu expect from one who smoke a joint with his mother
Anointed hustlers in a fatherless region
Through the pain wish they know that God was just teachin'
We want decent homes"

First verse. The typical "Man, the streets be tough, holmes. Pity us! " rap deus ex machina #4. Use of drugs and poverty, cries for things to get better.

"I wonder is the spirits of Bob Marley and Haile Selassie
Watch me as the cops be tryna and pop and lock me
They cocky, plus they mentality is Nazi
The way they treat blacks I wanna snap like paparazzi"

And now, like the objectification of women, the token potshot at authority every generic rap song must feature. Unexpectedly, it's directed at the police. Well, ok. That was expected.

"Can a dude break free and still get honored at home
I was told by a chief it's the games nature
When you're glowin' some will love and some will hate ya"

Of course, every "poor black dude trying to get ahead in life" rap song features some line about making it big and being above everyone else.

"Black men walking wit white girls on they arms
I be mad at em as if I know they moms
Told to go beyond the surface, a person's a person
When we lessen our women our condition seems to worsen"

Woah. Objectification and an actual spiel about how it's bad? Finally this song actually diverts from the typical rap song. At least in one regard.

I feel like you left some important lines out of the analysis


"Shorties sayin' ball or retreat
A lesson we all speak at one point or another
Whatchu expect from one who smoke a joint with his mother"

He's not glorifying selling drugs, or trying to draw sympathy, I feel like he's explaining the way that drugs are a part of the culture from a young age in the projects, and you have to overcome it to move ahead (but that part comes later.)


"We want decent homes
So dreams we say out loud like speakerphones just to keep em on
It's like a colored song that keep keepin' on
I guess knowin' I'm weak is when I'm really bein' strong"

Yes, he is talking about rising above the level black people are at right now. But it's not the typical material extravegance most rappers talk about, he's just aiming for decent homes, a comfortable life.

"Through the purple haze I circle days I rhyme that work for pays
Tryna reverse the slave's mind and insert the brave mentality
Heard that it's drama at home
Can a dude break free and still get honored at home?"

Sort of a rally to get out of the mindset of tearing each other down. Common is always questioning how he connects with the streets of Chicago in his songs, so I feel like that's what he's going over in the song here. Can he write songs that still have a call to action without alienating the neighborhood he came out of?

Great songs can always be interpreted different ways, and in my opinion this is one of those songs, so I'm glad we can have a debate like this about it.




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Hip-Hop QOTW:

"Yeah, where I'ma start it at, look I'ma part of that
Downtown Philly where it's realer than a heart attack
It wasn't really that ill until the start of crack
Now it's a body caught every night on the Almanac"

"Game Theory"
The Roots

Generalization is always a dumb mistake to make. When I was younger I was into Rap. Hardcore gangsta rap at that. I grew up in an Urban area so it was just what we did. Hidden behind the less than desirable subject matter there were some truly brilliant lyrical stylings...groups like Wu-Tang Clan(at least certain members), 2Pac, and Notorious B.I.G. were actually very talented musical artists.

Nowadays, I'm not very impressed by most rap, but there are still a few gems out there. Even if you don't enjoy the music, to generalize and make statements about the entire genre is simply ignorant. One could easily do the same for any other genre as well.

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"That Light has bestowed upon me the greatest black magic!"

I dislike rap because I don't like the way it usually sounds. There's a difference between rapping and singing (obviously), and rapping sounds a lot harsher.

Another reason is the songs. I know there are some good rap songs, I'm sure I've even liked one or two. I think Missy Eliot had a rap song that I liked (if it's a woman rapping, it doesn't usually sound as harsh and ugly to me). But for the most part, I hear the ones with lyrics that I don't like, or can't relate to, and this turns me off of rap.

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I had an old signature. Now I've changed it.

@MetroidMorphBall:
Nice, very nice. My hat goes off to you, that song doesn't fit in any of the stereotypes unless there's something between the lines I've overlooked, but I don't see a point in digging around for esotheric references. You've proven me wrong. Now if more rap songs were like that, perhaps it would enjoy a better place in the general public's genre preferences.

@Ranger51:
Ah yes, how unexpected that you'd come up with a negative post fully directed at every little point you could pick at. 'S all good though, I still wuv ya man.

As for the whole "providing proof that my genre isn't one-sided" thing, I thought this was the whole point of the discussion everyone was having, not just on rap but pretty much all stereotyped genres. Or would you prefer I blindly lay down double-standards about bashing a genre for its generalised content without providing my own views and asking to be shown that there's room for improvement in them? I was under the impression that that sort of behavior was wrong.

To each their own, man. Peace.

@Gears:
What I meant was, the song was nevertheless a song about "da streets yo!" Granted, however, it didn't have the whole "mah homies an' I are gonna bust a cap in yah, suckah!!" most people who've posted, myself included, make this genre out to be. Different interpretations are what make songs stand out, and just skimming over the lyrics without discussing them can make them sound pretty shallow. I'm glad things are turning to discussing and analysing songs too, as it gives interesting insight into them. There's no need to like a song to appreciate it.



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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

Reasons I don't like rap:

1. My theory on how rap is just a way assist in the theft of car parts.
2. My exposure of rap is what my brother listens to. Either he only listens to one song, or it all sounds very much alike.
3. It's a very racist genre of music. It looks to me like rap was supposed to be to the late '80s what Disco was to the late '70s, but the rappers decided to take a page from the book of the Democrats and say that if you don't listen to rap, you're not really black. White kids who listen to rap get chastized for trying to act black, Eminem getting as big as he was must have taken an incredible amount of work and talent, the direction the former members of DC Talk took after they split up gets joked about alot, and if you want to find black artists in rock, country, etc, you have to go back 20+ years.

All in all, my biggest reason would be #1. I really hate that much bass.

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"I had to write four novels before they let me write comic books."
-Brad Meltzer

For the people who don't like rap, do you dislike both male and female rap artists? Would you put Lauryn Hill and Eminem in the same boat? I see a lot of people mentioning male artists, but not female.

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I had an old signature. Now I've changed it.

OK. This is why I hate this mus... I mean, UNORGANIZED NOISE. The sound is very repetitive, a 2 second beat repeated throughout the ENTIRE song. And how just can you call this music? Most of the so called 'singing' is monotonous, loud, and repetitive. And although it is true that not all of the songs revolve around violence, drugs, and sex, most (I'm not even going to say 'songs') usually follow along those 3 lines.

And I apologize if this is considered trolling or insulting. I just want to give my two cents too. And I will admit that the music I enjoy does not appeal to everyone. But WHY, for the love of God, WHY must you people crank the volume on this stuff up SO loud it shakes the walls of houses next to it? The same goes to driving/riding in a car. Sometimes I don't hear any thing but a 'bzzzz bzzbzbbzbzzzzz' kind of noise when driving by. WHY?

So, in reply to 'Rap music, why is it hated?', Rap music, why is it LIKED???

That's all I have to say.

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Dang. And here I was hoping the next big thing in hip hop would be, y'know, silence. ~Djibriel

Twilight Paladin.com We are now twilightpaladin.co.nr! It's not .com, but, oh well.

The Twilight Forums!

I can apreciate some rap. For example, the sort of thing you'll find in Gorillaz songs, erratic, quick, clean and witty. I think it's astounding how vocalists can rap so rapidly off the top of their heads, and occasionaly you can find a catch backbeat in some rap songs as well.

That said, such raps songs as I described are a bit of a rarity. As has been said before, many rap songs are repetative, and shameful. I'm just waiting until they come out with a rap 'song' where they play the same synthesised beat over again and just repeat dirty words, nothing else. Then I give up on the music industry entirely.

It must be considered though, that it's possible alot of the rap heard on the radio is likely there BECAUSE it's controversial. It may be that most of the real rap talent out there is being trodden on by those that will spew sewage from their mouths for a quick buck.

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TURKEY! - (The only way not to get blocked for using Fowl Language)

First, what's rap? Well, I'm not well-versed in the terminology used to describe and categorize modern music forms, but I personally define rap as a sort of fast poetry set to highly rhythmic music. A typical rap song (in my understanding) would include verses of quick, unpitched recitation of lyrics set to the rhythm of percussion (possibly along with some simply melodic lines in the bass, and occasionally a treble instrument), and a refrain that's usually pitched and sung (and might also include unpitched recitation). If that's too much terminology for you, then let me put it this way: the verses are spoken, the refrain is sung, and there's a lot of percussion-driven rhythm throughout the song, and more melody in the refrain.

Now I have no problem with that instrumentation. I don't mind rap at its core; I actually find it rather entertaining.

What I don't like about rap is the lyrics of many songs (and usually also the images in the case of music videos). The lyrics I dislike (if I can actually hear them) are the ones detailing thugs, gangs, violence, gang violence, irresponsible sex, more sex, and other things related to stereotypical "young black men on the streets causing trouble".

But if the lyrics are decent or better, and the music's good, then I'll enjoy the song. An example (so much for all ye Pokemon haters), for me, is "What Kind of Pokemon Are You?", from the 2 B. A. Master / Pikachu's Jukebox album.

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Check the "What games are you playing at the moment?" thread for updates on what I've been playing.

You can find me on the Fediverse! I use Mastodon, where I am @[email protected] ( https://sakurajima.moe/@glennmagusharvey )

Some rap I like, some I don't. I think it's K-Os i really appreciate, he's done some amazing stuff. But I think the general public can't think for themselves and stereotype everything they can to slot things into the two main categories of personal taste 'like' and 'don't like'. plus, and everyone hates it when it's said, but there is still huge amounts of racism.

someone mentioned British rap, you should try 'trip-hop'. namely massive attack or tricky. great great music.

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The first duty in life is to assume a pose,
and the second duty is...well, no one's found out yet.

Quote (Jenny @ 25th June 2005 23:33)

someone mentioned British rap, you should try 'trip-hop'. namely massive attack or tricky.  great great music.

Oh yes, how could I forget the Streets?

Silverlance, I know you like Douglas Adams. If there's any rap you're going to like, I think it might be the Streets. You could probably appreciate their silly British humor.

You're certailny not going to hear lines like, "the pressure blows the dial on your barometer. Do you understand, or do you need an interpreter?" in any other rap music.

Quote (MetroidMorphBall @ 27th June 2005 23:38)

Silverlance, I know you like Douglas Adams. If there's any rap you're going to like, I think it might be the Streets. You could probably appreciate their silly British humor.

I'll give that a listen. Best way to see what's good about the "other" side is to find something you associate with. And besides, who doesn't like british humor?

The closest to rap I listen to and actually like would be Kopfschuss by the german rock band, Megaherz. Though it mixes in rock beats often enough, the lyrics and pace seem close enough to rap. Worth a listen, unless you hate songs in languages you don't understand and can't speak german.

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

I seen every one posting lyrics so I thought I would post some cross movement Lyrics. So here it is.

Quote

What Do You See


The Ambassador
Written by William Branch
Produced by Tru-Life
Recorded by Gordon (The Studio, Phila., Pa)
Mixed by Storm (The Studio, Phila., Pa)
Cross Movement Music & Publishing (SESAC)

Hear the CLINK! of the nails as they pierce His hands < And the…lash as they slash this man < Crash this man, hit and harass this man < Bash, stick and inflict mad gashes and < Mentally put yourself at the place and time < Use your faith as a way to trace the crime < Let your mind take you back laps and laps < Back track till your mind sees back to back < < All the things that happened to a silent Lamb < All in chains they trapped Him like a violent man < Like He forwarded a violent plan, but it was prophecy < That said God would be treated like unwanted property < < You’ve got to see the ill way that they flogged Him < Blood leaked, it was deep how they mobbed Him < Think thorns worn as a crown < Here the Jews say, “Crucify Him pass it down” < < Hear the squeals as the steel comes crashin’ down < Can’t get pass the sound, teeth are gnashing’ now < Veins snap, feel that, He’s hot flashin’ now < Draped in blood, covered in a cap and gown <  < So many crack from the straps that it numbed the back < Crucifixion makes your lungs collapse < Watch His chest---see Him gasp for breath < Hear Him…and…till there’s no gasp left < < Chorus:  What do you see when you close your eyes < What will you see when your life goes by < Think hard visualize the ill mob < Either you’ll feel God or your hearts real hard < < Verse 2:  Concentrate, your mind should stay in study mode <  Tell your buddies, “roll” as you contemplate the bloody robe < Which was worn by the One beaten and torn < Killed by the same dust people He’d formed < But He emptied Himself---paused the wealth < Put independent use of His attributes on the shelf < < Loving men who weren’t loving Him but were loving sin < Loving gin, lovin’ a night at the club again <  I’m Ruben’ men wrong but souls will die < If my rhyme doesn’t come in and blow your high < I’m right in the site of Jehovah’s eye < So the gospel I’ll tell till I’m old and dry < The world’s cold like a frozen pie < With little sense like missing your ears, tongue, nose, and eyes < < But back to the ugliest things you’ve ever heard of < The murder of the One who took more flack than Roberta < They came in droves “cats” had His veins exposed < Played a game where they claimed His robe < Eyes swollen, even rearranged His nose < Only Providence helped Him sustain the blows < <  Are yall seeing the One who owns it all < The King getting beaten in the Roman halls < Headed for a Roman cross, and heaven is His home and all < But He wouldn’t give His home a call < Soon to dislocate His bones and all < And still wouldn’t wish for His opponents fall < < Ahhh!---tired and thirsty too < Blood lossed on a cross in His birthday suit < As He droops, pooped from attempts to breathe < I grieve…tears stop my attempts to read < The sign hanging over Him limp and weak  < It’s (Memphis) bleak---How could this have been meant to be. < < Repeat Chorus < < No time to blink, but just continue to think of Scripture < Let it convict ya, focus get in to picture < Watch it blow you square off the rector < As it teaches you of the real Victor < Who prevails, you hear the crucifixion details < Now ask yourself why’s your life still derailed < And why we fail to live for the One we nailed < This same Jesus, you know the One we Hail < < With lips but not with lives < Time see with the heart and not with our eyes < See the Son, the One, who was hung like a poster < Was buried, but popped up like a toaster < Got all the host of heaven makin’ a toast to < The King of kings who brings God and men closer < Sin’s roped ya, guns out the holster < Can’t stay alive even with John Travolta < Now I hope to pull you off the sofa < Cut the TVs pause the CD’s, the culture < Is in the midst of a raging storm < The rage is on, obituary page is long < Life is short, but casket sales are high < No surprise that numbers in the jails are high < On the streets anything you want they’ll supply < That’s why beer, crack and weed sales are high < < Love songs making you wail and cry  < Number of pregnant single females is high < Youth get high---deal just to get by < Doing street corner business with no suit & tie < It’s “do or die”, truth or lie, you and I
Refuse to try, and trust the Crucified < Yo what do you see when you close your eyes? < What will you see when your life goes by? < < Repeat Chorus < <

I hope I did this right oh and here is the link to it
crossmovementrecords.com
I hope I didn't make any mistakes posting the quote and the link. If I did then sorry.

This post has been edited by JEDAH on 4th July 2005 16:33

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Quote

Psalms 148: 7-9, 11(a), 13. Praise the LORD from the earth, ye dragons, and all deeps: Fire, and hail; snow, and vapor; stormy wind fulfilling his word: Mountains, and all hills; Kings of the earth, and all people; Let them praise the name of the LORD: for his name alone is excellent; his glory is above the earth and heaven.

I know I dont understand why people hate rap so much i mean sure after a few lame songs it gets boring but rap is awesome.

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I was scared of it all, scared to
fall, and i couldn't even crawl,
when i was forced to run. . .
:-linkin park-:

i've found that most of my stereotypical dislikes have been broken as i get older - it used to be "i hate rap and i hate country" but i've heard some old country that i thought was an older rock song that i thought was awesome - as for rap, 90% of what i've heard i still dont like, but i cant claim to have indepth knowledge of it - but even some of the "sex, drugs, violence, women, sex, drugs" songs are fairly good - most of the time, i dont listen to the words of ANY music i listen to - try doing that sometime with a song you think you hate for the lyrics - you might find that it is actually good music

as for what octopus said (sorry, im not sure how to do the quote dealie) about waiting to hear a song with nothing but bad words? you dont have to look very far, but *GASP* its not a rap song - its by Blink 182 - Family Reunion

yes, some rap sucks - theres no better way to put it - but anyone would be hard pressed to find a genre that doesnt have at least SOME sucky music, or maybe a mystery or horror movie/book that sucks - i imagine some of you can think of some right now

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-In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams
Slow and steady wont win at the gold saucer
-me

I like some rap and i hate some rap, it depends on the artist and the song. Rap music gets the same opinions as other music genres, take country for example some people think it is redneck music (some of it is) but some people really love it and i think rap music is the same way. It just depends on your taste of music.

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"To be forgotten is worst than death." Freya , FF9

"How do you prove that you exist...? Maybe we dont exist." Vivi, FF9

Quote (Malshun @ 11th July 2005 16:21)

but even some of the "sex, drugs, violence, women, sex, drugs" songs are fairly good - most of the time, i dont listen to the words of ANY music i listen to -

Speaking of which, there are many many songs in practically every other genre of music out there with the same themes. so why does rap get slagged so bad? the only other thing that gets such negative media is various death metal/shock rock bands who supposedly endorse satanism or suicide or murder, which is not the case either.

i remember when my mom wanted to take away my radiohead cds because she thought they were making me suicidal. it was the sterotype of the kids who listened to that kind of music, yes, certain lifestyles are drawn to certain sounds, but i don't think the music is the influence of the lifestyle, i'd wager good money that it is ALWAYS the other way around. bad kids who listen to gangsta rap aren't bad becuase of the rap, they like the rap because it reflects the way they think they should be. but not all the people who listen to it are menaces to society either. they may have bad attitudes or whatever, but so does everyone else.** judging them by what they listen to is just a way to alienate them for having different musical tastes.

**some of the most rotten shallow evil people, much worse than the gangsta-wannabe kids, i've ever known listened to 'normal' music, socially accepted stuff from classic rock to oldies to bubblegum pop. Can't judge a book by their cover.

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The first duty in life is to assume a pose,
and the second duty is...well, no one's found out yet.

Like the typical person who liked old-school rap, I hate the new kind. Gangster lifestyles and jewelry lose their charm very shortly, and the flat lyrics wear thin easily. There're some good sports out there that make me want to reconsider embracing the entire genre again, but then some new Thug4Lifelolz comes along and perpetuates the same boring stuff that makes me want to glue earmuffs to my head.

Maybe I just like instruments.

This post has been edited by Shotgunnova on 13th July 2005 10:39

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It's gonna be a glorious day
I feel my luck can change