Track this topic | Email this topic | Print this topic

Choice #3

Kain is really a good guy in my opinion, its just that he's a weak person. Someone weak like him wouldn't be able to stand up to the powers of mind control or deal with the fact that his best friend has the woman that he loves. It drove him crazy and left him even weaker, which made him prone to be controlled by Golbez. Kain was also my favorite FFIV character because he was the most human. No one else is as interesting as him because he actually has personal issues and an internal conflict within him like real people do.

--------------------

Music is a mysterious thing... Sometimes, it makes people remember things that they do not expect. Many thoughts, feelings, memories... things almost forgotten... Regardless of whether the listener desires to remember them or not...

- Shitan, Xenogears

Kain is a :

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

Backstabbing S.O.B who can't be trusted.

Haha, just kidding. He was the second best, I liked Rydia better though >_>

Quote (MorgueN @ 18th September 2004 08:14)

I like both Characters because they fell from grace and instead lying down broken. They get back up and do something about it. Cecil needs motivation from the Elder of Mysidia to become a Paladin(which means taking on Mt Ordeals). Kain gets his motivation from Cecil's example.

The difference is Kain will only stand for the right thing as long as someone else does it first. It wasn't until Cecil questioned the king in Baron that Cain decided to step forward and do the same. It wasn't until Cecil decided to rebel in Mist that Cain decided to also rebel. The first one to do something is always braver than those who come in to ride his coattails.

Quote (MorgueN @ 18th September 2004 08:14)

Kain goes to Mt Ordeals to seek redemption, so did Cecil.

There was no indication that Kain went to Mt. Ordeals to seek redemption. There was a hint he was just there to hide so he didn't have to face Cecil, though.

Quote (MorgueN @ 20th September 2004 08:19)

Only when he was under mind control he back-stabbed. Also when you are under mind control I'd think you wouldn't be able to question orders.

But he had to let Golbeze in.
It was said that mind-control in IV isn't absolute. It seems to just be something that pushes Golbeze and Cain in a certain direction, the two of them choosing the ways they act.

--------------------

"I had to write four novels before they let me write comic books."
-Brad Meltzer

As much as I love Kain, it does seem that he was kind of weak-minded. Cecil was like a brother to him and he still backstabbed him.

Am I the only one here that views Final Fantasy IV as the best game of the series?

This post has been edited by ForgottenLynx on 8th November 2004 12:45

--------------------

The eloquence of your deceit, will be your downfall."

I think it is the second best in the series behind FFVI. Of course I am a little partial as those two are the first ones I played, although they are all good (except FFXI which is the only one I never played so I don't know).

--------------------

War is for the participants a test of character; it makes bad men worse and good men better. - Joshua Chamberlain

U sir R a n00b >:-( - Cactuar

I was thinking I might like VI a wee bit more. They're both pretty good. As of now, I like IV a little more for some odd, deranged reason.

--------------------

The eloquence of your deceit, will be your downfall."

Well said Dark Paladin

Quote

The difference is Kain will only stand for the right thing as long as someone else does it first. It wasn't until Cecil questioned the king in Baron that Cain decided to step forward and do the same. It wasn't until Cecil decided to rebel in Mist that Cain decided to also rebel. The first one to do something is always braver than those who come in to ride his coattails.

Kain was not on the mission that made Cecil want to rebel. Kain stepped forward because he was a friend to Cecil and wanted him to keep his command of the Red Wings. Kain decided to follow Cecil because he valued their friendship and did not want to dishonour himself or the Dragoons.

Quote

There was no indication that Kain went to Mt. Ordeals to seek redemption. There was a hint he was just there to hide so he didn't have to face Cecil, though.

Well if he wanted to hide from Cecil then why re join the party. And of all places why hide at Mt Ordeals. Kain also says he wanted to be tested. He saw Mt Ordeals turn shadow into light. So he wouldn't be going there to hide.

Quote

But he had to let Golbeze in. It was said that mind-control in IV isn't absolute. It seems to just be something that pushes Golbeze and Cain in a certain direction, the two of them choosing the ways they act.

So tell me how did Golbez let Zemus in? My guess is because his heart was dark. Now here's a hypothetical situation after Rydia summons Titan and seperates Cecil and Kain. Now Cecil was left with Rydia so what if a small twist of fate were to happen and Cecil was found by Baron and Kain was left alone with Rydia. Cecil would probably be executed or given mind control why? Because his heart was dark(The Elder of Mysidia senses that and tell Cecil to do the right thing or Evil will prevail no matter how powerful his mind is). Rosa being held hostage also could make Cecil do evil just to keep her alive. While Kain takes Rydia to Kaipo un aware that Cecil has been found. Kain honours his new mission and keeps Rydia safe and tries to stop the Red Wings from seizeing more Crystals. Of course because the roles are reversed that would make the confrontation at Fabul very interesting. So after Fabul what happens when Kain arrives in Mysidia. He would have more trust than Cecil and most likely be sent to Mt Ordeals to become a Paladin.

What I'm trying to say is. When Cecil was a Dark Knight and Kain still a Dragoon. They both were susceptable to Mind Control for various reasons. But the world only needed one Paladin and the game developers chose Cecil because he's the main character. The Paladin clearly surpassed the Dark Knight in both physical prowess and strength of will. If Cecil did not become a Paladin then the world would be in peril. Everybody has a period in their life where they are dark and feel weak and need some help to get back on track. FF4 was about Cecil getting back on track and Kain falling into his darkness and at the end Kain attempting his shot at getting back on track.

I'm also not saying Kain is in the right, definatly not. I just don't like seeing this harsh condemnation he is recieveing for making a few mistakes because after all he is a human character. And all humans can improve and Kain is determine to improve, gotta admire that quality. He got knocked down and knocked down hard. But he won't stay down. And that is strength.

This post has been edited by MorgueN on 21st September 2004 14:06

Quote (MorgueN @ 21st September 2004 06:07)

He got knocked down and knocked down hard. But he won't stay down. And that is strength.

Good post MorgueN and you too Dark Paladin. Isn't that last sentence of yours a little humorous considering what it says under DP's avatar?

I think Kain was simply vulnerable to control and manipulation due to his jealousy over Rosa and Cecil's relationship. He was a decent man, who let the pain in his heart become a weakness. Instead of rejoicing in the happiness of the two people that he loved, and trying to move on towards a future where he might find love again, he let it fester inside of him, while trying to be the good friend. Unfortunately we all know what happened because of his inability to effectively deal with his loss. At the end of the game, I feel that he was finally ready to make the attempt, having been faced with the horrible ugliness of what happened as a result of ignoring that pain.

Bravo, Morgue. Bravo.

--------------------

//www.rpgmaker.net/
We make games. Period.

I put three... it wasn't Kain's fault that he was put under control. Although he wasn't my favorite character (even though He came in close second behind Cecil) I still liked him alot.

--------------------

Climhazzard is the timeless evil robot who runs some of the cool stuff at CoN (mostly logging chat, since there are no quizzes at the moment), all the while watching and waiting for his moment to take over the world. -Tiddles

I couldn't vote because the first three were all equally true. He's the best back-stabbing SOB in the game, and feels very sorry for it.

--------------------

When life gives you lemons... SQUIRT THEM IN PEOPLES EYES! Mwahahahahaha! *Squirt* Ow! Hey, that was my job! *Squirt* Knock it off! *Squirt* I want my mommy! Waaah! *runs off*

The moral of this story is *Squirt* Ow! *Squirt* Okay, okay, no morals.

I can't beleive you said that! That so funny!

Anyway, I think he's the best Character in the game, mainly because of his jump. That has saved me many a time. It helps to have a character who can leave the battle where they can't get hurt, and deal alot of damage. (though I found out that if he's not equipped with armor, he deals next to nothing)



--------------------

"If you believe you can tell me what to think, I believe I can tell you where to go." -unknown
Long live the crazy old man!
Sorry, I can't spell, so don't bother me about it, kay?
The world would be a better place without homophobics...

lol hes the best

Kain is probably the best and coolest character in ff4.
Kain is the exact persona that a dragoon should have! a dark past, and a loyal will!

His outfit rocks too!

--------------------

<DrkMagimaster282> MWAHAHA. I,
DrkMagimaster282, shall wreak havoc and destroy...
<Mother>TIIIIIIMMYYY...are you planning evil, unkind revenge again in the bathroom??
<DrkMagimaster282>UMMMMMMMM...NO.

CoN day is May 27th, 2005
Join elder-geek.com for unbiased reviews, no console wars here...

Kain's character was the best done out of any character in FF4. You really have to admire him at the end in which he joins the other four for the assault on Zemus's palace. He had betrayed them twice, though it was not totally on his free will, he did betray them twice, which Edge made brutally clear. Yet Kain had the courage to come forawrd, and Cecil had the kindness and trust to accept his best friend back. Then he says one of the best lines:

"Pray kill me if that happens."

He was ready to die for his redemption, vengeance, and his friends.


--------------------

It's more than a game, it's a religion.

Get the pulp beaten out of you to beat the pulp out of enemies.
-Blue Mage's Oath

I would'nt say Kain is the best character in the game but he certainly is one of the coolest.

--------------------

The black wind howls again...
Say, can you hear that? It's the sound of the Reaper...
- Magus

i had an old band named Kain. Spelt exactly like FF2US's translation. We did cover tunes from the 60's as such. That was before i obtained FF2US. So when i first played it, at the scene outside King Baron's throne room. i was literally rolling-on-floor LOL :D

Anyway i chose #3 because his actions show that he had honour all along, but is too susceptible to circumstances around him...

Kain was blinded by jealousy and a desire to be the honorable man his father once was. I believe he loved Rosa, which made it very hard for him to be nice to Cecil Harvey. Although I do believe you could always trust Kain to do the right thing, if he's not hypnotized. Great jumping ability though, but I thought Rydia had more firepower.

I thought he was a combo of the three. He betrays the party numerous times, taking the equipment I forgot to unequip, then comes back more evil. And Poor Rydia never got to Meteo him in his sleep.. . But he does save the group in the Giant, so I partly forgive him. In case you were wondering I voted, "Loyal with weak mind"

--------------------

Could you repeat that?

I voted "A loyal man with a weak mind and guilty conscience". You see, whenever I play this game the my party ( I never change, its a character flaw ) breaks down like this:

Code

Kain
      Rosa
Cecil
      Rydia
Edge

As you can see, I (Cecil) am the brave and noble leader. Kain is my goofy-idiot side-kick. Edge is Kain's goofy-idiot side-kick. Rosa is my girl. And Rydia...
... well to tell you the truth we're all a little scared of Rydia.

--------------------

My Final Fantasy Tactics: The War Of The Lions Avatar

The Brave Knight
Name: Eirikir Lashius (Ramza)
Role: Knight
Age: 23
AA1: Arts of War
AA2: Guts
R: Counter
S: Concentration
M: Move +3
W: Durandal
O: Reverie Shield
H: Grand Helm
B: Grand Armor
A: Brigand's Gloves

I think he proved his loyalty when he left at the end of the game.

While Cecil and the rest are stuck with government jobs, Kain's out on more adventures.

He's like Mr. Starbuck from Moby Dick... too good a man.

--------------------

"Nothing exists, but atoms and the void"
-Democritus

My Kain only has 157 (He has the White Spear) attack points.But,there are several reasons why he is the best in this game.First-lets face it,in battle and on his menu pic,he looks incredibly cool.Secondly,he gets a lot of HP. (Mine can hold 8891 HP Max)And,his jump ability packs one hell of a punch.But,there is only one flaw with him.He only is in your party every now and then until after The Giant Of Babil.My favorite character,that he is!


But,yeah,he was very weak minded.

This post has been edited by Umaro on 7th November 2004 01:17

Kain, for me was only useful because he could equip the White Spear, which, in turn, meant he could use the spell "white" during battle. I don't think he ever stopped casting that spell since he got the spear, save for those nasty battles against Evil Masks (stupid Rflect spell...).

Quote

He only is in your party every now and then until after The Giant Of Babil.My favorite character,that he is!

Could this (referring to the "that he is") possibly have been a side-effect of watching Rurouni Kenshin? That is my favorite show ever! If it isn't, ehhhh just forget I said anything.....

Edit

I forgot to post my vote...oops! I nulled my vote since "He is useful for only casting White once you get the White Spear" wasn't on the ballet.

This post has been edited by Caesar on 7th November 2004 01:31

--------------------

Is PJ

The Ancient said:

Quote

I couldn't choose between the second and third. He definately had a weak mind, but he was a back stabbing S.O.B. too. He betrays you repeatedly, admits that it wasn't all Golbez's mind control, but his weakness. And then does nothing to redeem himself except act all mopey. And....on top of all that, by the end of the game he's just about the weakest character and definately the least versatile. He's soooo lucky the group spared his sorry excuse for a life. Go hide on a mountain somewhere Kain, the real men don't want you around.

I couldn't have said it better myself. I was a tad bit more decisive though and didn't hesitate to vote backstabber. I don't get why Cecil trusted him so much though. Would you trust somebody who betrayed you and the whole world twice?

--------------------

Role reversal at its finest.

Quote (Caesar @ 6th November 2004 19:28)

Kain, for me was only useful because he could equip the White Spear, which, in turn, meant he could use the spell "white" during battle. I don't think he ever stopped casting that spell since he got the spear, save for those nasty battles against Evil Masks (stupid Rflect spell...).

Maybe it was just my game, but when I had him use the spear he could only do like 900 damage with the spell it cast, but he did 9000+ when he jumped and at least 4000 (I don't remember exactly) when he attacked with it. Why in the world would you go with the spell unless you were fighting an enemy that was strong against physical attacks?

Was it just annoyance with him that made you make him useless?
Or is the damage done by it different when you're not playing the SNES version?

thanks

--------------------

I'm the root of all that's evil yeah, but you can call me cookie.
-BHG

FF3DS friend code: 4424-8076-6097

I'm not sure. He was doing several thousand damage with White. And yes, I did have him use White because I hate him. For some reason, my experiences with this game don't match up with those of the other members here. This is one example, and another being the fact that my Edge did as much damage as Cecil, if not more in some circumstances (I never got the Ragnarok in my game). Ehh. Oh well.

--------------------

Is PJ

As a person, I'm slightly torn... He was an obvious jerk to Cecil, and really went about trying to woo Rosa in interely the wrong way. However, I think , when you take him away from the situation with Rosa and Cecil, he's a baisicaly good person. He slightly sympathises with Cecil about his Crystal snatching misgivings, and has pity on Rydia. It really seems like his charecter's personality takes a real 360 after Myst.

As a fighter. I dunno, I'm not wild about jump for some reason, but he was powerful enough.

--------------------

TURKEY! - (The only way not to get blocked for using Fowl Language)

I like Jump, it keeps him alive longer in boss fights and difficult random encounters. Also, unlike Hide, it's useful and causes lots of damage. Usually.

I Kain. First of all, he's a dragoon and dragoons are my fav FF class to begin with. Ever since I started playing the series, dragoons have fascinated me for some reason. They're one of my favorite subjects to draw, in fact. It's more than just looking cool and jumping though; there's something I like about them that I can't place.

Anyways, back to my opinion of Kain. I thought he was very intriguing and thought it was awesome to have a "hero" who lacked any real morals. It made the game more interesting. I sort of viewed him as a tragic hero at the very end, and even identified more with him than Cecil at some points of the story (I also found out from an online quiz that I'm most similar to him). I totally identified with him loving Rosa but seeing her hook up with his best friend. Unattainable love is like the story of my life. Same with having issues with friends. Well, it's not that extreme with me, but I've had some friendships that came to a really bad end. I totally related to Kain at the end of the game. (I always identify with the shady characters who struggle with relationships-- Kain, Celes, Squall...)

I also never get tired of reading fanfics about Kain. I read a novel-length one once.

He was also really good in battle. Like I mentioned before, I have a thing for dragoons.

This post has been edited by Riona on 3rd December 2004 05:41

I forgot something when I was dissing that lil punk. He wanted to kill a little girl. A sweet little girl with green hair who later summons bad*ss dragons. He wasn't even told to do so by his superiors. He decided it would be the correct course of action based on his perception of his mission that Cecil and Himself had been tricked into performing. Thank goodness Cecil was there to prevent complete genocide, Kain had no compunctions about it. What a douche.

--------------------

"That Light has bestowed upon me the greatest black magic!"