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Quote (Rangers51 @ 29th March 2005 11:06)

(I wasn't that impressed by the Met's collection, though - maybe KefkaLives got to see a temporary exhibition or I just didn't find it all).

Nah, I probably saw the same thing you did: a small, one room gallery. But I had gone to the Met randomly that day, and it was awesome seeing some of the original artwork in person after having just seen them in a book.



This post has been edited by KefkaLives on 30th March 2005 00:13

Quote (gozaru~ @ 29th March 2005 11:28)

Quote (Dark Paladin @ 29th March 2005 02:15)

I used to be interested in the Samurai aspect because it seemed to parallel Knights, which I already loved. I love noble and honorable virtues, but a closer look at the Samurai code got me running away very quickly. The west has had its share of hypocritical or dishonorable knights, but the Samurai code itself is hypocritical and prejudiced.

foolishness. you might be interested in knowing that many, many samurai, with the advent of mêzi, dropped their swords and turned to what they believed to be the next closest thing to the busido -- Christianity (in fact, even before the restoration, quite a few samurai, esp those from kyûsyû, were Christian converts). with their ways of life stripped of them and their swords confiscated, samurai found the same honour and compassion in the worldview of the Christ that they saw in their own. in fact, many of the post-mêzi japanese ex-samurai Christians who came to the us were disillusioned with the type of "Christianity" they would often encounter here -- a self-serving, hypocritical Christianity that is still characteristic of contemporary american Christians today (mostly due to observed instances of racism). not to say there weren't/aren't just as many japanese Christians in the same vein, as i'm sure there are. nor to say that all samurai were good -- there was no dearth of hypocritical girl-rapers and peasant-abusers. but it is foolish of you to dismiss the samurai as dishonourable or prejudiced.

That story is cool and all, but it's one thing when one of your soldiers beats a peasent around because they feel like it, and another when the written honor code allows it. All of those rules only apply to those on the same class level or above (and only to Japanese people), so peasant abuse and rape were so tolerated they were common-place.

Quote (Bum's Rush @ 29th March 2005 09:09)

And let's not forget their modern merchandise, which at sometimes is wierd,

Yeah, like the condoms with the faces of FFVIII characters on them that I saw on ebay a few months ago.

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"I had to write four novels before they let me write comic books."
-Brad Meltzer

My exposure to Japan has been in large part through anime, but thankfully I've witnessed those who went down the path of fandom before I took the plunge. Indeed, my first experiences with 'real' anime were very disappointing. I joined an anime club and we watched tv shows, which I found bizarre and fairly pointless. I made some very quick realizations while in that club.

1) I wasn't a fan of anime, I was a fan of animation.
2) The other club members...were not.

However I still watched anime because while the majority of anime is...well, not my cup, when I would find a gem, it'd really friggin shine. Cowboy Bebop and Eva would be good examples. While in search of these diamonds in the rough, I got to see my fair share of anime, which in turn was my introduction into the Japanese culture.

Then came the internet.

I've since become fairly cynical of the culture and my pesimistic nature doesn't help. From what I've gathered it's like what whatsisface said, a perfectionist society with a big ass ego. Now I'm well aware that my views are based on second hand sources, but I don't care. Japan's not important enough for me to give it a serious look through.

That and there's some stuff about 'em that just creeps me the hell out.

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Arts

Farts

Twarts

Quote (Narratorway @ 31st March 2005 02:30)

I've since become fairly cynical of the culture and my pesimistic nature doesn't help.  From what I've gathered it's like what whatsisface said, a perfectionist society with a big ass ego.  Now I'm well aware that my views are based on second hand sources, but I don't care.  Japan's not important enough for me to give it a serious look through.

NP, you're probably the only person I've ever met who uses laziness as an excuse for racism.

I've never been, and I can't say I know a whole lot about the culture, but there are a lot of things that came from Japan that I like: Cowboy Bebop, video games, sushi. Japan's inscrutable grasp on the American imagination has also given me plenty of opportunities to have a good laugh at the expense of white people who try to be like us Asians.

This post has been edited by Super Moogle on 31st March 2005 09:44

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"I always have a quotation for everything - it saves original thinking."
~Dorothy L. Sayers

"The truly remarkable thing about television is that it allows several million people to laugh at the same joke and still feel lonely."
~T.S. Eliot

"Defeat is not defeat unless accepted as reality - in your own mind!"
~ Bruce Lee

I encourage all to go and read the blog Elena linked to.

I have nothing in particular in favor of or against Japan. If there's one foreign culture I'm working with, it's the US one. Which is nice, although you fellahs put too much fricking ice in your drinks.

I suppose I can thank them for the FF series.

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The Collapse of Heaven and Earth

Quote (Dark Paladin @ 31st March 2005 01:44)

That story is cool and all, but it's one thing when one of your soldiers beats a peasent around because they feel like it, and another when the written honor code allows it. All of those rules only apply to those on the same class level or above (and only to Japanese people), so peasant abuse and rape were so tolerated they were common-place.

wait, what? man, where do you get this garbage? have you even looked into the ways of samurai (an obvious "no")? there is *nothing* in the "busido code" that condones exploitation of the weak or socially lower. in fact, portions of the hagakure (which is probably the closest thing to a written busido code) emphasise that a samurai should *protect* the weak and actually take the lives of corrupt samurai who were taking advantage of others. at any rate, the busido code is not a list of numbered "rules" that one can simply look up, like you're insinuating -- there is no simple "samurai code" that you had to be able to recite/ demonstrate knowledge of before you became a samurai. rather, it was just the honourable way of life by which samurai were supposed to live -- put into words in the books of many famous samurai and ex-samurai over the years. and no, there was nothing in the code that condoned rape or peasant abuse.

have you ever seen *the seven samurai,* a movie by akira kurosawa? it illustrates well the difference between the true busido and the perversion of the name of "warrior."

SuperMoogle-

I didn't see anything in that post from Narratorway that insinuated racism.

Perhaps in today's age people throw that term about a bit too loosley?

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Join the Army, see the world, meet interesting people - and kill them.

~Pacifist Badge, 1978

I bear no malice towards Japan, in fact it is one of a long list of countries that I would love to spend some time in one day, but that was no racist remark. This is racism:

Quote (some moron commenting on a Xenosaga review on Christ Centered Game Reviews)

I highly suggest that you look into (ie research) the Japanese religion Shinto. I took a religion class recently and I can tell you that it, along with most of the other major religions of the world take every part of Chrstianity and go against it...but Shinto is one of the most disturbing. Prior to WW2, the Japanese gov't had placed STATE Shinto as the religion of Japan, which, in turn not only followed the code of Bushido, (aka, death over dishonor, kamikaze's into Pearl Harbor, etc.) but also the Japanese people believed they were the most superior people of the earth because their religion had them believe that all Japanese emporers were decendends of the sun godess Amaratsu. Also, the Japanese follow ancestor worship, set up their own shrines in their homes for which to worship...etc.
...
Also, as a Christian, you need to realize that God told us that worship, or taking part in other cultures is blasphemy...hence much of the anime shown on American television also shows this Bushido code and portrays demonism in a lighthearted, non-serious manner.

No one on this board is racist, and I don't think anyone on this board is particularly ignorant on Japanese culture. That guy is just an idiot and probably a racist, Super Moogle probably owes Narratorway an apology and Narratorway probably needs to get over some base stereotypes. Probably.

This post has been edited by laszlow on 31st March 2005 18:52

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this is a blog mostly about comics and videogames
END SPOILER

Hey, now. Let's not start a debate on what racism is. Not in this thread, anyway.

From what I can see, Narratorway said that "Japan's not important enough to give Japan a serious view" and Super Moogle said "NP, you're probably the only person I've ever met who uses laziness as an excuse for racism."

For the record, saying that a country is not "important enough" for someone IS a little racist. However, SM also did NOT call NP a racist.

If Narratorway was offended (which I doubt, but you never know), he knows that he can PM any staff member.

Also, for the record, we don't condone racism here, so in the future (everyone) please be careful in your phrasing to make sure you don't come off racist. Even if you think that the members that know you well will understand that you're not being racist, ones that are new will most likely not understand.

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I had an old signature. Now I've changed it.

Thanks Dee. I'd also like to add that all attempts at humorous banter seem lost on these two gentlemen, which is rather unfortunate. NP, at least, knows when I'm just messing around.

This post has been edited by Super Moogle on 1st April 2005 06:24

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"I always have a quotation for everything - it saves original thinking."
~Dorothy L. Sayers

"The truly remarkable thing about television is that it allows several million people to laugh at the same joke and still feel lonely."
~T.S. Eliot

"Defeat is not defeat unless accepted as reality - in your own mind!"
~ Bruce Lee

I've got a good sense of humor... Guess I'm just not in the "in" crowd with you, SM. I don't find labeling someone as racist very funny at all, whether you mean it or not.

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Join the Army, see the world, meet interesting people - and kill them.

~Pacifist Badge, 1978

The staff's take on this "issue" (quoted for sarcasm's sake) has been clearly articulated. Anything else on the matter does not belong in this thread. Period.

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"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN?

I didn't take offense so much defense at the accusation. I wasn't aware he was being sarcastic till he actually said so. Another instance of pure text just not being able to get the tone right. It's all good though SM. No harm no foul.

Now with that over.

I have realized there is one aspect of my life where Japan has greatly affected me. Spiritually. Now I don't mean that in terms of religion or else I would have said so. Allow me to explain.

For most of my life, I've been a very...nervous person. One of those kids with that form of ADD that includes the word hyperactive somewhere in it. It's made my life very difficult and unpleasant. As I began to watch anime, I slowly began to be introduced to eastern culture and philosophies. Now I never did truly intensive research or anything like that, but I did become aware of the concept of 'finding one's self'. Meditation and things like that. I never went so far as that, but it allowed me to truly understand and practice the smaller concepts that I heard as a child, such as taking a deep breath and counting to ten. As they say in the movie Fight Club 'to let that which does not matter truly slide.' In essence, the largely eastern ideals of finding inner calm have probably been the largest positive influence on my life.

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Arts

Farts

Twarts

In an attepmt to swing this topic back into a positive light:

Look at the blog Elena posted. The most important thing is that Japaneese citizens know nothing about Americans except what they see from MTV. Then, you have to remember that the opposite is more or less true: We don't really know everything about Japan. I might be getting stationed in Okinawa soon, and I certainly am looking forward to getting the chance to go to the mainland and see what Japan is really like.
In any case, you can also look at it like this: There are three things that come from Japan that have influenced me greatly: instant noodles, The Art of War, and Final Fantasy. The only country that has three thing that affected me more is the US: porno, digital camoflauge utilities, and AMD Athalon processors.

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M777: lightweight 155mm howitzer
3/11 rules over all artillery!

Quote (bahamut0013 @ 2nd April 2005 19:17)

  ...The Art of War...

I thought Sun Tzu was chinese

SunTzu

This post has been edited by MogMaster on 3rd April 2005 00:23

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If you've been mod-o-fied,
It's an illusion, and you're in-between.
Don't you be tarot-fied,
It's just alot of nothing, so what can it mean?
~Frank Zappa

Sins exist only for people who are on the Way or approaching the Way

Japanese culture in itself just doesn't effect me much. Just as with any nation, there are things I like about the culture, things I do not and things that are japan related yet don't have anything inherently japanese about them. The last of which is the only thing that effects me on any form of grand scale. Video games, computer components, maritial arts(I sucked), buddhism and various other things of the like. I like Anime and the particular drawing style too but as has been said, it is just animation. Sure, it sometimes is targeted at a differnt audiances and generally seems to have a particularly unique stylization but it all boils down to Anime meaning animation in japan (as far as I, somebody who is not fulent in Japanese, knows that is).

Then there's sushi, I like sushi. Sushi is the sole uniquely japanese thing that effects me on any scale, even if it is only on the snack scale. Go raw fish that's usually wrapped in sticky rice and seaweed.

This post has been edited by Tonepoet on 3rd April 2005 02:01

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Role reversal at its finest.

The way Japanese culture has influenced me the most (architecture student) is in terms of design. And by that I mean everything: buildings, landscapes, art, furniture, objects- even the characters of their language have a beautiful architectural quality to them.

I love their usage of natural materials, the clean lines of minimalism, and the importance of craft and quality construction. Obviously, I mainly mean objects of importance or artistic merit, not remote controllers and cell phones.

The key word in everything is subtlety- everything is reduced to its most basic forms and needs, and works in harmony with nature, the user, and all of its parts holistically. Everything is in perfect harmony and each part is needed to appreciate the next. Their landscapes are a perfect example; they don't try to conquer nature as we do/did in the West with meticulously groomed and overly formal gardens. They realize nature is inherently beautiful that its randomness makes it so, and they act subtlely to accent it not override it. A stone to catch the sounds of moving water here, an arch to frame a view there; it's all done to highlight the pre-existing beauty in the world that surrounds us.

Socially it hasn't influenced me much at all, mainly because their society is essentially an uber-exaggerated version of our own and not in a good way at all. They seem to have embraced our culture post WW2, but have mistakenly embraced the worst parts of it: materialism, lack of permanence, social isolation in a digital world, over-corporatization, and an overwhelming addiction for the "next big thing." Whatever subtlety and sophistication their culture once possessed is being eroded by the demands and threats of the new digital world, and it's disappointing. No healthy culture can sanely embrace Super Milk Chan.

Oh well, that's my spiel on the downfall of civilization. If anyone's interested in Japanese art and architecture though, aside from what's been mentioned previously (Hiroshige, Naguchi, etc.) definitely check out Tadao Ando. One of the best architects around and certainly one of my favorites.

This post has been edited by imperialstooge on 3rd April 2005 09:13