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(sorry about posting 5 times this topic,It was no intentional..internet conexion problems..)why the offering decrease a lot your attack? it is just me??, a hit with the illumina is much stronger than the 4 hit with the offering relic (700-900 dmg per hit) why happen this? sometimes a hit is 1000 around an sometimes is 800 around, not in a same fight of course, but yes the same enemy (mad oscar), not just illumina, every weapon is the same, the offering decrease the attack (except on the fixed dice). Other thing: the offering neutralizes the effect of a weapon??, illumina lose it mp consuming ability...but the scimitar don`t lose it instant death effect...so what`s the deal with the offering? a genji glove is much better..

This post has been edited by Moglv99 on 13th February 2005 01:17

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"Its no cheating if you don't get caught"

The offering decreases your attack to balance the game out somewhat. However, with the Atma weapon, you can strike for a guaranteed 9999 everytime past level ~60 (IIRC.) Any other weapon tacked on with the genji glove and you've got yourself 8x9999 damage.

So no. A genji glove on its own is not necessarily better.

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

Offering has three bad traits:

1. Halves all physical damage. And I mean all of it (Sabin's Pummel, for example, is also affected).
2. No critical hits (MP criticals like Illumina's don't work either)
3. No weapon-cast spells (Tempest uses Wind Slash through its special effect, not the typical spell byte, that's why it works and the others don't)

This is why weapons such as ValiantKnife, Fixed Dice, and Tempest are considered great Offering weapons; they can either produce enough damage to practically cancel out the penalty or they bypass it somehow.

Illumina, as you've seen, is one of the crappier Offering combinations in turn because it loses both of its offensive perks to the relic AND takes a massive blow from the penalty. IOW, get a more compatible weapon.

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The Unoriginal White Sheet

-Master ZED

Quote (Master ZED @ 12th February 2005 21:36)

2. No critical hits (MP criticals like Illumina's don't work either)

Call me strange but I'd actually think that would be a nice little benefit from the offering, not a handicap. I just hate losing MP every time I attack something because of that auto-crit MP property, especially when you're fighting undead because it makes it rather annoying to get your MP back without wasting items. But then again, I wouldn't really consider using a weapon like illumina with the offering in the first place...

the pearl lance doesn't lose its effect of casting pearl, does it? i'm sure i saw it cast pearl when i had offering on mog...

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Yes... this world is filled with both Light and Darkness, though how long this delicate Balance will last I don not know.

Quote (catalyst)

the pearl lance doesn't lose its effect of casting pearl, does it? i'm sure i saw it cast pearl when i had offering on mog...

Hmm, I guess you must be remembering incorrectly then. I remember Master Zed telling me in a Chupon topic that spells that are cast after the weapon strikes don't work anymore with the Offering. I'll dig up a link to it in a few seconds and edit this post.

Edit

Here's the link. Also, Djibriel has a little more to say on it if you scroll down a little more. It was quite interesting to me at the time to find that out but it kinda sucks though, doesn't it?

This post has been edited by Tonepoet on 14th February 2005 05:18

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Role reversal at its finest.

Thanks for the info everyone, I knew I was right offering is not very reliable after all, well atma weapon and fixed dice make exception, but it comes other question:
it is possibly to do a limit break with the offering? I remember triggering shadow fang and tiger something with the genji glove, well the desesperation near fatal attacks, I think not, but who knows I read a pearl lance upside with pearl effect...

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"Its no cheating if you don't get caught"

Quote (Silverlance @ 12th February 2005 20:49)

So no. A genji glove on its own is not necessarily better.

Well, I can see you havn't been trading your softs for elixers at the colosseum.

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Yeah, I barely post.

Quote (Max @ 20th February 2005 22:30)

Quote (Silverlance @ 12th February 2005 20:49)

So no. A genji glove on its own is not necessarily better.

Well, I can see you havn't been trading your softs for elixers at the colosseum.

There's more ways than one to get the elixer. Genji glove + stunner + other weapon on shadow and relying on the weapon's stop property isn't any more effective than genji glove +offering + dice + fixed dice, or dragon horn + dragoon boots + high speed character.

Quote (Moglv99 @ 20th February 2005 20:32)

it is possibly to do a limit break with the offering?

Yes. Desperation attacks ignore what relics/weapons you have equipped (unless you're wearing, say, the Cursed Shield without a Ribbon and are being affected by a status that blocks you from using DAs). They're considered magical attacks, like some of Sabin's blitzes, so the Offering and Genji Glove don't have any effect on them.

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Words of Wisdom:

If something can go wrong, it will.

If anything simply cannot go wrong, it will anyway.

If there is a possibility of several things going wrong, the one that will cause the most damage will be the one to go wrong. - Murphy’s Law

Boing! Zoom! - Mr. Saturn

It's more than that: DAs are actually considered commands on their own.

The game handles a DA by making a series of checks after you select the fight command, right before you take your turn. These checks are basically just wether it's a monster, a character that can use a DA, a character with critical HP, that sort of thing. If the DA can occure and random conditions satisfy its requirements, it jumps to the DA code. Otherwise, it jumps to the attack code. Only then is the genji glove/offering/anything in fact actually handled.

Technically, "fight" is just a wrapped around two commands: the actual fight command and the DA. Any and all effects that affect a regular attack are done after the game has determined a DA won't occure.

Having the offering affect a DA would be a fun hack to write and an opening for quite a bit of creativity.

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

Quote (Keith @ 20th February 2005 23:11)

Quote (Max @ 20th February 2005 22:30)

Quote (Silverlance @ 12th February 2005 20:49)

So no. A genji glove on its own is not necessarily better.

Well, I can see you havn't been trading your softs for elixers at the colosseum.

There's more ways than one to get the elixer. Genji glove + stunner + other weapon on shadow and relying on the weapon's stop property isn't any more effective than genji glove +offering + dice + fixed dice, or dragon horn + dragoon boots + high speed character.

Remember, you don't control what your character does in the colosseum. Genji-glove and the offering is a one hit kill for Chupon, if you hit 9999 every time. Using your methods, you would have to rely on your character making the same move many times, which doesn't happen often. And isn't Chupon invulnerable to instant death?

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Yeah, I barely post.

hey you don`t need two Atma weapons for doing that ?? I remember mi little brother have two Atma weapons before WoR...oh, and I tried and desesperation attacks seem that don`t work wirh a offering equipped...I tried about 50 times,,(no kidding..)

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"Its no cheating if you don't get caught"

I have no clue how to get two Atma weapons before the world of ruin, I don't even know how to get two in the game, if it is possible. I usually end up getting the Illumina, just as strong as the atma weapon. Learning Ultima is enebled while having an Illumina equiped.

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Yeah, I barely post.

Actually the only time you can get a 2nd legit atma weapon without using a game genie code or relm sketch bug is to steal it off one of the bosses in the final battle of the game - which means you ultimately have a few turns to use it.

Quote (Max)

Remember, you don't control what your character does in the colosseum. Genji-glove and the offering is a one hit kill for Chupon, if you hit 9999 every time. Using your methods, you would have to rely on your character making the same move many times, which doesn't happen often. And isn't Chupon invulnerable to instant death?

If you use shadow, never teach him any spells, and use any of the combinations I mentioned, all he will ever do is choose the fight command because throw and item are disabled in colosseum battles.

This post has been edited by Keith on 24th February 2005 02:37

double post sorry

This post has been edited by Keith on 24th February 2005 02:36

With Offering, you can try to steal with Locke four times in a one turn (eight with Genji Glove). My mind is foggy, so I don't remember if Offering works with Capture, or if you need to equip Thiefknife and attack as usual. Either way, sometimes it helps to have a low attack dmg. For example if you want to steal a rare item, like a Fake Mustache or an elusive Tonic. It may take multiple attempts to get the item, and you want to save time (and not kill the enemy of course) by having any many steal tries as possible.

This post has been edited by da12ken on 24th February 2005 08:01

That is actually a very poor tactic if you steal from multiple enemies, as you will only receive the *last* item you stole in an 8 or 4 capture attempt. For example, if you're fighting an aquilla and a lich (or whatever its called) and your 8-shot capture steals an economizer from the aquilla and then a potion from the lich, you just lost your economizer. Instead, equipping the sneak ring is a much better way to ensure that you will be able to steal everything from a group one turn at a time.

Quote (Moglv99 @ 23rd February 2005 18:58)

...oh, and I tried and desesperation attacks seem that don`t work wirh a offering equipped...I tried about 50 times,,(no kidding..)

Try 50 more times.

Seriously, you can indeed perform them with the Offering equipped. I've done it a number of times.

Quote

Learning Ultima is enebled while having an Illumina equiped.

No dice. The only piece of equipment that can teach characters Ultima is the Paladin Shield. The Ragnarok Magicite can also do it or Terra can learn it naturally for herself at lvl. 99. There's no other legit way to learn it in the game.

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Words of Wisdom:

If something can go wrong, it will.

If anything simply cannot go wrong, it will anyway.

If there is a possibility of several things going wrong, the one that will cause the most damage will be the one to go wrong. - Murphy’s Law

Boing! Zoom! - Mr. Saturn

you make it sound easy silverfork, but it isn`t....but if you are so damn sure I believe you,maybe DA works with a offering... and about stealing with the offering, I don`t like it too much , I also prefer equipping two sneaks rings, and about the two atma weapons (or ultima weapons) I KNOW the two ways to get it, one in WoB, other in WoR by stealing Girl, but my little brother has them (two atmas)before WoR, only God knows how he do it...I don`t have any atma weapon...so I can`t beat Chupon..bummer..so far I read some good use for the offering, maybe you could tell me some more??

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"Its no cheating if you don't get caught"

The only way he could've done it is with a game genie code or with the relm sketch bug. There's no other way.

Honestly I think one of the best uses of the offering is to have the character equipped with offering/hero ring, and then cast berserk on them. Their damage will be pretty decent, and you can at least rely on them always using the fight command while berserked, making them a much more reliable attacker than umaro.