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Quote (shotgunnova)

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Then there would have been no reason for them to even attend the funeral, or give anyone the slightest doubt in their mind that they were alive so they the chase could begin again.

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True, unless Ramza's respect for Olan was enough that he deemed it the honorable thing to do to let him know he had lived.

For that matter, Olan and Balmafula were no doubt on the run, as well. Recall what Olan says at the grave:

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Olan: I'm sorry I'm late... Alma, Ramza. I wanted to come earlier, but it was too dangerous... Too risky...

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Remember that Olan is also a Nanten guard, and an adoptive son of the "traitorous" Orlandu. There are so many reason for him not to show up at the memorial of a sworn enemy of his liege that it's up in the air whether or not he was being followed or couldnt' make it under other circumstances.

If Delita really felt he needed to be incarcarated or killed, he would have done so at Zeltennia. He didn't, and he would soon become King--that says a lot about anyone working under him in regards to being insubordinate.

Quote (shotgunnova)

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A brotherly bond was shared by Delita and Ramza throughout the game's entire duration. Each could have caused trouble for the other, if they had wished, and even with personal dispositions included, they were both (becoming) conscientious of what the other was doing. During the last cutscene, after Ovelia is killed, Hyral's thoughts turn directly to Ramza and what he got out of the whole ordeal. His relationship with Ramza had obviously stagnated somewhat from when they were kids, but there's still remnants of their past friendship even in the dying scenes.

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Sure, it's possible Ramza knew, but that still doesn't merit him removing Delita from power. Despite how Delita might have gained the throne, the fact of the matter that was even someone who did that would be better than more strife within the country among its own People.

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Who said anything about Ramza removing Delita from power? Ramza had nowhere to turn and a one-man show against Delita would have been futile before it started.

But even so, I think it would merit removing him from power, if Ramza could get past his in-the-name-of-justice hinge. A bloody war ensuing over one man (who know one would even know is attempting to overthrow until attempted) is highly unlikely. It would just be a black eye in the face of the pagan examiners and a wake-up call to ol' Delita who may or may not be alive to see it.

Quote (shotgunnova)

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Speculation about a Lion War repeat is highly unlikely. With Ovelia dead, there would be no proper heir to the throne, and Orinas would be reigned in with the help of a regent. Bloody conflicts and chaos would be on the low end of the probability scale.

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One of two eventualities are easily possible in that situation:

1) Orinas' caretaker seeking to use that position to gain kingship, likely having Orinas done away with at some point or another. In any event, in-fighting would likely break out as someone would think it unfit for Ornias' protector to be ruling simply because they were his protector, and especially if the child disappeared. Again, there would also be schmucks wanting to be important.


2) With the only heir to the throne being a child under five years old and were Delita killed suddenly and Ovelia already dead, there would likely be fighting over who should even get the position of being Orinas' protector. People tried to use Ovelia. No doubt they would seek to use Orinas to whatever extent they could.

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1) As long as a caretaker is needed, a relative would take up the duty, as Larg and Goltana were both related to Omdoria/Ruvelia in some way or another. With all four of them indisposed, the natural position of caretaker would have went to Ovelia, but she would never be able to attend to that duty. Excluding people that are speculated to be dead (i.e. Ramza and followers), the position would either fall on:

a. Royal chambermaid, attendant, or nurse (as most children have).
b. The falsely imprisoned Ruvelia, the only living family member.
c. A distant, unmentioned relative

I could agree with you that if A or C were to happen, in-fighting would be a possibility, but if Ruvelia were to be released, Orinas would grow up into the next king. If someone in the actual position to appoint a caretaker, she would naturally be a choice; remember, everyone in the Atkascha household believes Ruvelia to be innocent.

2) With no one at all to rule Ivalice, Ruvelia would become a definate possibility again. Last remaining relative, known ability to rule in someone's stead (Omdoria's) and she was liked for the most part. The part about proving her innocent of the crimes she was charged of may take some time, but I think she'd have a good chance of being released. After all, Delita couldn't protest when he's deep-sixed.

Quote (shotgunnova)

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The Beoulve family's reputation and bloodline would have been nonexistant by that time and living in obscurity could have been the choice he made if he did indeed live through it all. If he choose a life of hiding, there would have been no reason for him to appear at the memorial service--severing all ties would make sure the "dead" heretic stayed dead. Risking his new future for one last glimpse? Not likely.

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It's not as though he showed himself to the entire group of mourners, though.

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He and Alma were riding chocobos (which make noise) on a nearby road (easy to see, people probably travel on there), so unless everyone lives in a hobbit hole, it's hard to believe that no one saw them at all (even if they didn't recognize them).

Quote (shotgunnova)

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Out of all the theories, being summoned back to the world via the Zodiac Stones seems the most plausible, and I'll admit that. The stones acting of their own free will is something that is not shown in any instance...

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Except for this scene, you mean:

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Rafa: Brother, look...it's dawn. Remember how we used to chat
till dawn about things? I wanted to travel with you. We were
going to go to the Galthana's hometown after the war...
Remember? Brother.... say something....

[Rafa starts to cry.]

(Ramza's thought: Alma...)

[The stone suddenly begins to glow.]

Rafa: What's this?

[Rafa brings out the stone.]

Ramza: It's responding to... Rafa's spirit.........? It
grieves Malak's death......... Wiegraf's despair and
resentment summoned Velius... Then...

Rafa: You, too grieve his death? Thank you...

Ramza: No, Rafa...its...

[The stone glows. A red beam of light comes down from the sky
and enters Malak's body.]

Ramza: ...What?

[Malak moves.]

Malak: Ugh....ugh...

Rafa: Brother...Malak!!

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The Stone acted of its own accord based on Rafa's feelings. There was no consent on her part for it to do anything. It simply reacted to what she felt.

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Interaction. Everyone--even Rafa--interacted with the stone through touching it physically or verbally communicating with it. Again, the stone didn't just go right ahead and revive Malak, it got a feel for what Rafa felt at the sight of her brother's dead body. It acted on her touch, granted her "wish" by checking what she was feeling.

"The stone acted of its own accord based on Rafa's feelings"

The stone acting of its own accord would be it reviving Malak without any outside influence. Rafa obviously triggered the stone's mechanisms through holding it.

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It's gonna be a glorious day
I feel my luck can change

Quote (shotgunnova)

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Remember that Olan is also a Nanten guard, and an adoptive son of the "traitorous" Orlandu. There are so many reason for him not to show up at the memorial of a sworn enemy of his liege that it's up in the air whether or not he was being followed or couldnt' make it under other circumstances.

If Delita really felt he needed to be incarcarated or killed, he would have done so at Zeltennia. He didn't, and he would soon become King--that says a lot about anyone working under him in regards to being insubordinate.

A fair enough point, as are the rest of them, with the possible exception of the last one:

Quote (shotgunnova)

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Interaction. Everyone--even Rafa--interacted with the stone through touching it physically or verbally communicating with it. Again, the stone didn't just go right ahead and revive Malak, it got a feel for what Rafa felt at the sight of her brother's dead body. It acted on her touch, granted her "wish" by checking what she was feeling.

"The stone acted of its own accord based on Rafa's feelings"

The stone acting of its own accord would be it reviving Malak without any outside influence. Rafa obviously triggered the stone's mechanisms through holding it.

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Why is this relevant? Ramza and his crew would have had the Stones with them in the Graveyard of Airships. The potential for the interaction of the Stones with Ramza and his crew was there. I think the Stones would fairly easily get a feel for what they were feeling, again, with the whole "Oh shit, she's about to explode!" thing going on. The only question is, again, "Was there enough time?" I doubt the Stone needed as long to react to Rafa's feelings as it took, but, as you said, it just took that long to be sure it had accurately analyzed them.

In a situation in which death is imminent due to a powerful Demon being set to explode, I would think the Stones would need less time to accurately conclude "Hey, these People want to get out of here."

Anyway, I think we've probably discussed this as far as possible. What it ultimately comes down to is whether or not you feel the Stones would have been able to react quickly enough.

As far as it goes, I personally still hold that the heavy lack of Olan in the ending FMV indicates that it wasn't a hallucination. And even as far as the funeral scene goes, we're certainly not given indication previously that he was prone to such misperceptions of incoming stimuli.

Anyway, thanks for the discussion.

Quote (L. Cully)

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As I recall, wasn't Balmafula there? And she didn't react like she saw them.

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She wasn't there when Ramza and Alma rode by. She had stepped away while Olan spoke to the grave. After they passed by, she walked back to Olan and he then told her that Ramza and Alma were alive and the both of them stared off in the direction in which the Chocobos had gone. Whether or not they could have still seen their backs riding away or not is open to questioning perhaps, though unless the landscape was really hilly, I see no reason to think they wouldn't have been able to.

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My Final Fantasy VII Plot Analysis

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" — Edmund Burke