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After being whooped by a Telstar on the Veldt this evening, cursing the "Annhialated..." message, and realizing that I hadn't saved for a good half-hour of gameplay, a thought struck me:

How many of you believe that FFVI is a game of skill, and how many think it to be merely a game of luck tacked on to an engaging story? (Of course, it's certainly a hybrid of these two, but which do you feel is predominant in the game, and how so?)
Please comment in addition to participating in the poll - I am intrigued to hear others' views on the matter (and will post my own beliefs once I've had a little more time to sort the arguments out.)

-Phoenix

I say its a game of skill. I don't think you can beat a game with luck unless its very easy.

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In the darkness looking for a way out, then I hear a call from my heart telling me to go forward. Then out of nowhere I see someone waiting for me and as I get closer I hear these words "I Love You"

Looking at the pure logistics of it, a game that was based predominantly on luck in order to finish it is unlikely to be successful in a videogame format, especially one that is based on a linear story.  The RPG format itself lends itself the least to that kind of thinking for that very reason.

But RPG's are trying to create a complete and valid alternate universe in which the story takes place.  But a large part of making a world feel real to the player is having a sense of randomness about it.  An unpredictability that must exsist in order to suspend our disbelief for a while and make us care about the characters in the story and the world they live in.  So, in order to include that 'chaos theory', they revolve the battle system (i.e. encounters, attacks, stats, etc.) around unpredictable algorithms.  But since even those are restricted to the characters stats and equipment.

So in the end, the core gameplay of FFVI is based on skill...as are all of the FF RPGs.

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Arts

Farts

Twarts

Take it from a fighting gamer.

A game of skill is a shitty overpriced game at a carnival where you try to win a stuffed toy for your girlfriend so she'll think your studly.

FFVI, VirtuaFighter, and CvsSNK2 are all games of EXPERIENCE

for instance experience should have told you to save more often than every twenty minutes.  just as experience tells me the 7 or 8 different ways I could counter Lau's pppk, and the 7 or 8 ways he could counter my counter.

CvsSNK players talk about mad skillz all the time. about how CvSNK's horrible link combos take "skill" to play, how A grove is the "skillfull grove" cause of the custom combos.  yet they all cry cheep when some "C groove scrub" predicts every move they throw, and roll cancels through it.

if you didn't understand that last part, sorry, I just had to vent.

Exp > skill

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"Number One, I order you to go take a number two."

Quote (H1Ro @ 18 Oct. 2002, 13:05)

I say its a game of skill. I don't think you can beat a game with luck unless its very easy.

What skills do you feel that the game employs, H1Ro?

I said luck. Skill doesn't really apply to RPGs, in my opinion, especially turn based ones. It's more experience than anything, actually. That's why you have no problem beating a boss the second time around: you learned his weakness, so no fooling around needed. Eventually, you begin to pick up this kind of information faster, and learn more about how the game works.

However, in this case, it would be luck. There's no real "skill" needed, just some logic and luck. In a way, I don't feel that FF6 is a game of luck, but it isn't skill. I guess it's logic and experience. Intuition, maybe? Knowing when to cast certain spells, etc.

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Lou: There's a couple of guys fighting down at the aquarium, Chief.
Wiggum: Do they still sell those frozen bananas?
Lou: I think so.
Wiggum: Let's roll.

I'd say it's neither. I would agree with mael_duin that experience is the larger factor, even within the game. If you know what to use against a certain enemy(it's weakness) then you could easily beat it. If you had never seen it's type, all you could do is try to use logic, and use your best spells etc. and just may end up dead anyways. It's not really skill per se, because you're basically just picking something to do from a list.

There is some luck involved, like what attacks a monster does or whatever, but not enough that an experienced player shouldn't easily be able to overcome.

Edit

Heh, our posts are almost identical Jlo. You know what they say, great minds think alike.

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The clouds ran away, opened up the sky
And one by one I watched every constellation die
And there I was frozen, standing in my backyard
Face to face, eye to eye, staring at the last star
I should've known, walked all the way home
To find that she wasn't here, I'm still all alone

-Atmosphere "Always Coming Back Home to You"

This reminds me of fics with two of my members of the FF6rpg. The person who plays Setzer is big on luck being a determining factor, and the person who plays Daryl uses skill. In their characters of course. But anyway.

I say skill. I don't really remember too many instances where I may have just happened to do it right because of circumstances. Each part had it's own way of handling things, and if you were smart enough, you could figure out how to get through it, rather then hoping you'll have good luck.

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I had an old signature. Now I've changed it.

It is a fusion of both. Whether you can come up with the best strategy to finish the game via choosing the correct Espers for characters. The right party members.

The luck part would come into play whether enemy characters don't use their special attacks too often "cough Storm Dragon cough". That guy I had to use three X potions to counter his attacks. But with correct thinking which is a skill. It can be more of a skill based game but I'd say it is a bit of both. Every RPG luck plays a part.

I myself found it to be a luck that relied on your skill. You choose your combinations of Espers and Characters, and their damage and levels relied on the luck of the rising experience and "roll" of the damage turns out to be.

In terms of pure statistics, I think it's neither.

Most of the gameplay is negated at level 60 or so, since your characters have become powerful enough to deal 9,999 HP damage to their enemies every turn.  So, it's basically just a test of which players are dedicated enough to level up to that point, upon which the game is based on neither luck nor skill, since you'll win every battle anyway.

When it comes to Espers and equipment, however, it becomes a game of skill.  Teaching your characters the right spells and giving them the right equipment and relics is a major factor in Final Fantasy VI, and the correct combination is a testament of skill, rather than blind luck.

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"I always have a quotation for everything - it saves original thinking."
~Dorothy L. Sayers

"The truly remarkable thing about television is that it allows several million people to laugh at the same joke and still feel lonely."
~T.S. Eliot

"Defeat is not defeat unless accepted as reality - in your own mind!"
~ Bruce Lee

Most RPG games (including FFVI) doesn't really skill exept choosing good combo spells or for some RPG games, dodging attacks well (weeee) that's my opinion and because it isn't game of skill (just plain luck) i like it

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I will be there...

It's a game of strategy, based on experience.  The lower the level, the greater the experience required, and the greater part luck plays.  Almost all of them are meant to be finished at level 50-60, higher levels being merely a safeguard so all can finish it eventually, and allowing omnipotence for other sorts of player.  I want to say skill is based on strategy and experience.  It is how well you manipulate the ATB (or whatever), as well as all possible options to defeat an enemy.  However, unlike strategy, which is preset, it also includes the ability to react to a situation and stay alive.

I would have to say that it is part Luck, part Skill.

Aye, alot of it is luck, but you must be able to know how far you can push your luck.  You got to know what you are doing, and know the differance between what you need luck to do, and what is just plain crazy

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"And that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana-shaped” -Sir Bedevere the Wise

or maybe, it's also about how patient you are.
If something is too hard, you can just sit around and collect experiences until you become strong enough.

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I will be there...

all's well that ends in a well

Moderator Edit

WTF? -Neal

i say skill cause u need to know what to do when u face certain enemies. of course some luck shows up once in a while but that is life.

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War is for the participants a test of character; it makes bad men worse and good men better. - Joshua Chamberlain

U sir R a n00b >:-( - Cactuar

Quote (Rufus @ 4 Nov. 2002, 16:14)

all's well that ends in a well Moderator Edit WTF? -Neal

The "in a well" is what gives it its charm.

Luck = some
Skill = some
Exp = on the nose



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The clouds ran away, opened up the sky
And one by one I watched every constellation die
And there I was frozen, standing in my backyard
Face to face, eye to eye, staring at the last star
I should've known, walked all the way home
To find that she wasn't here, I'm still all alone

-Atmosphere "Always Coming Back Home to You"

I held out on responding to the poll because I really wasn't sure how to back up my "Skill" response, and now I think it really depends on who you are using in your party.  With certain characters it really doesn't matter, but with others, it becomes pretty important.  If you're using a party of Edgar, Celes, Cyan, and Shadow, you're going to get what you put into the game and it will rely more on skill and knowing what commands to use, and where.  As far as I can tell, Tools, Runic, SwdTech, and Throw have very little luck involved.  The only times I've missed with tools are when the enemy is invisible, Runic just doesn't absorb certain spells, and certain attacks like SwdTech's Slash don't work on all enemies.  It's a matter of knowing when to use your commands.

However, if you're using a party of Setzer, Gau, Mog, and Umaro, and you're relying on their special skills, who knows what you're going to get?  You might pull out a 7-Flush, or maybe a Lagomorph (Or Joker Doom).  Gau might use Stray Cat's Catscratch, or he might just attack normally.  Mog may cast Sun Bath on party that's just felt the wrath of WWind, or he may use Wind Slash on a Wind-element enemy.  Umaro is just unpredictable and may use Storm against an enemy who absorbs ice (I THINK Storm is an ice-element attack).  It all depends on who you're using.

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Hey, put the cellphone down for a while
In the night there is something wild
Can you hear it breathing?
And hey, put the laptop down for a while
In the night there is something wild
I feel it, it's leaving me

Of course, FFVI is a game of both luck and skill. But, if I had to choose one, I would definitely choose skill.

It isn't luck beating a boss when you accidentally lose two characters out of your party and realize you have no way to revive them. (Some may think that, but their just betting on their skills to kill the boss, not on their luck.) Or how about killing those three Pugs in Umaro's Cave or the Master Pug in the subterranean cave? Ain't no luck involved in throwing everything you have at an enemy while still trying to keep your own people alive.

The two mini-war games are games of skill, whether you're throwing up a defense, an offense, or a directed strike at Kefka's head. Luck only comes into place when you just don't have ANY control over what's happening, like what Neal said about Setzer, Gau, Mog, and Umaro.

If you want my honest opinion, luck is hoping the enemy (or your own characters) won't screw you royally. Skill is the opposite: trying to screw the enemy so that "luck" has only a negligible effect.

Phew....