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In response to a new debate over the Buster Sword (and some mention of the Masamune), I started this topic to discuss their practicality. Do you think these count as absurd weapons? Why or why not? How much do you think they weigh and how long are they? Any other concerns that you would want to talk about with respect to these two odd weapons?

I think that the Masamune is just a long katana sword, probably about 7 feet long (or at most 8 feet). Some people have suggested some 20 feet before, but I disagree, since the picture of sword after

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Sephiroth murdered the Shinra president

showed that the sword wasn't significantly longer than the guy's height. Other pictures of Sephiroth show that the sword is only about as long as he is tall, maybe a bit longer. I think he's about 6 feet something, so I estimate the Masamune to be about 7-8 feet long--definitely not an impractical weapon, if you can learn how to use it (I've seen longer katanas in museums).

Cloud's Buster Sword, unless made of stone, would probably weigh no more than about 50 pounds. I think that 200 pounds would be an absurd estimate; it might reach 100 pounds if it was purposely made of a heavy, dense metal. The fact that he can swing it with one hand shows how strong he is

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or it's because of his Mako infusion (don't we seem to be having this infusion trend?)

, but he nevertheless grips it with two hands in battle. Now how the hilt (or his wrist, for that matter) wouldn't break as he handles it DOES baffle me--the torque on a 50-pound rod with axis through one end is HUUUGE. I'm not that strong myself; I could probably lift it (assuming that neither the hilt nor my wrists break) but using it in battle would limit me to axe-like swinging motions, done at a price in speed because it would be so difficult to control due to inertia (translational and rotational). Unlike in the movie trailer to FF7AC, I doubt one could easily use the Buster Sword as a defensive weapon (e.g. to block Sephiroth's sword attack)--now the Masamune would have that capability because despite its length (7-8 feet compared to 4-5 feet for the Buster Sword) it is much thinner and has much less mass-->much less inertia-->ability to use Masamune in a quick reaction to defend against an attack.

In short, I think the Masamune is actually more practical than the Buster Sword.

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steel has a density of 7800 kg/m^3. let's assume the buster sword is 1.5 ft wide, 4 ft tall, and .1 ft deep (and that's being nice). i'm not going to bother working with the geometry, but with these approximations (and the assumption that the sword is solid), the buster sword would weigh some 130 kg, or about 300 pounds (ca. 1.5 times as much as the "absurd" estimate). in other words, it would not even be able to be picked up, much less wielded. now, let's make the buster sword out of aluminum, which has a density of i think 2800 kg/m^3. even then, the buster sword would weigh almost 50 kg. i don't believe there are any other practical metals (i say that as though Al was practical in the first place...) with densities lower than aluminum's, so...math > poor assumptions.

i'm sure the masamune is wieldable, it would just be rather hard to wield and it would be very tiring (unless of course you were...say...a clone of JENOVA, maybe), but the buster sword is impossible. by the way, the linear inertia would pale so much in comparison to the angular inertia that it's not even worth mentioning. the thing that would work against you most anyway would be the gravitational forces working on the buster sword. i could sit here and calculate the rigid body dynamics of the buster sword (and thus the exact angular velocity of the tip at which the sword would detach from the tiny handle) given the approximations i made earlier, but no one is interested in that and it's simply unnecessary since we have already determined that the buster sword is, in fact, a completely impractical and absurd weapon.

Cloud and Sephiroth are able to weild these weapons effectively because of there unnatural strengths. They are pretty much super humans, but thats not the topic.

Yes, I'm pretty sure the Masamune is about 7 ft long. In which case I think you could classify it as a Nodachi which is a long Katana. And I think a Kodachi is a small katana. I learned both these references from playing games and watching anime.

So yeah the the Masamune is definitely a practical weapon although it would take practice to wield it correctly because after taking a swing you leave yourself open. You have to learn to use the momentum of the swing to your advantage. But Sephiroth doesn't have to worry about this because he is super strong.

As for the buster sword, weren't there actual huge weapons like that made? But they weren't practical to use. In a realistic sense I would think something the buster sword would be used for one strike heavy hitting. Like in Rurouni Kenshin where Sanosuke uses that big weapon of his. Kaoru mentioned something about the weapon being designed to take out calvalry units, horse and all, in one swing. I would think the buster sword would be used for something like that.

But the buster sword isn't as long as Sanosuke's weapon, whatever it was, so it would be able to be handled with a little more speed. But as with Sephiroth, Cloud has a very unnatural amount of strength, I think he is stronger than Seph, so he doesn't have a problem wielding something that big.

Concerning the handle of the buster sword, I don't think a piece of wood would be able to hold that amount of weight. Of course I could be wrong. Maybe petrified wood? The buster sword looks to me like something that would be created in a mold of some sort. So what if the handle was made in the mold too. So the whole sword hilt, handle, and all was just one piece of metal. Would it hold together then?

This post has been edited by Rujuken on 11th February 2004 18:16

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-- You're Gonna Carry That Weight --

Well, I always just figured that Cloud could spin around and swing such a heavy and awkward sword etc because it was a video game, and video games dont have to make sense.

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The clouds ran away, opened up the sky
And one by one I watched every constellation die
And there I was frozen, standing in my backyard
Face to face, eye to eye, staring at the last star
I should've known, walked all the way home
To find that she wasn't here, I'm still all alone

-Atmosphere "Always Coming Back Home to You"

Cloud and Sephiroth are super strong? Where are the muscles?? Cloud looks like a skinny teenager with too much gel in his hair. Lemme guess, they have a new kind of muscle that can be small and strong. That doesn't make much sense if you ask me. Like Tidu-who said, I don't think they meant for these weapons to make 100% sense.

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sephiroth is 6'6", so the masamune is probably 7 feet long. there are indeed swords like that, but theyre uncommon, and not a lot of people would use them, but when one uses it correctly, its almost an automatic win, simply because of their range. swing recovery is a problem, but if theyre 7 feet away, and you just nailed them good, you probably dont need to worry about that.

the buster sword would probably be used the broadswords used by skilled (and very strong) knights middle-age europe. broadswords were double-bladed two handed swords made of hard tempered steel weighing up to 200 pounds or more, and they were used for cutting rather than thrusting, for obvious reasons. you would bring it down on an opponent's shoulder somewhat angled inward, and the sheer weight of the sword, not to mention the momentum of the swing, would just about cut all the way through him, armor and all. though clouds sword is a single edge, making it similar to a VERY wide katana, it would be used for the same purpose, but hell if he would be twirling it over his head with one hand.

neither weapon is a great choice to use alone against multiple adversaries, but both weapons are realistic, possible, and very effective to be used in battle, just not by the average guy working at taco bell.

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You watch the world exploding every single night
Dancing in the sun, a newborn in the light
Say goodbye to gravity and say goodbye to death
Hello to eternity and live for every breath

Your time will come...

Quote (therandyrhoads @ 11th February 2004 23:09)

...200 pounds or more...
...
...VERY wide katana...

Well, I didn't know that swords back then actually DID weigh that much (despite how impractical it sounds). In that case my comment saying that 200 pounds is an absurd estimate isn't absurd anymore, and 300 is simply going a little further. Maybe the Buster Sword is practical after all--except possibly the hilt.

Now what kind of sword does the Buster Sword count as? therandyrhoads says that it would be a katana, but I thought katanas were supposed to be thin? I always thought it was a single-edged broadsword--it is pretty heavy and "broad", and it's a straight and wide sword, like a broadsword.

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Check the "What games are you playing at the moment?" thread for updates on what I've been playing.

You can find me on the Fediverse! I use Mastodon, where I am @[email protected] ( https://sakurajima.moe/@glennmagusharvey )

i agree with that video games do not have to make sense, being able to wield the buster sword with one hand is about as realistic as being able to block machine gun bullets with your wristband

i was talking more about the shape being similar to a katana without the curve, just much wider. the buster sword would be counted as a broadsword, just one with a single edge.

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You watch the world exploding every single night
Dancing in the sun, a newborn in the light
Say goodbye to gravity and say goodbye to death
Hello to eternity and live for every breath

Your time will come...

Well, like the others said, it's video game, it doesn't have to make sense. Besides, people aren't going on about people casting magic from little orbs in the armor/weapons.

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We make games. Period.

I say that, since it's a video game, it makes no sense, and is therefore plausable.
For reference, here are some nice large pics:
Cloud 1024 x 1408
Sephiroth 2048 x 1468
Be careful, these pics may take a long time to load, as they are huge.

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Cloud and Sephiroth are super strong? Where are the muscles?? Cloud looks like a skinny teenager with too much gel in his hair. Lemme guess, they have a new kind of muscle that can be small and strong. That doesn't make much sense if you ask me.

Thats exactly it. They have special muscles...

I don't think its farfetched to assume Cloud and Seph are VERY strong considering the weapons they swing around. And since when did a character in a game, anime, or other fantasy stuff need to have huge muscles in order to be strong.

After using Figaro's links to refresh my memory of the weapons I think Seph's Masamune is definitely usable, though it would require great skill to use. But Cloud's Buster Sword is not. It would just be way too heavy, but thats why I like it.

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-- You're Gonna Carry That Weight --