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We know that Kefka became insane due to the magitek infusion (according to an NPC in Vector), so we can assume he wasn't demented before that (if anyone wants to claim otherwise, please say so and say why).

But I have to wonder, did that infusion make him evil as well or was he evil to start with?

And if you think he was evil initially, what kind of evil do you think he was:
1) the classic evil mastermind type of character (e.g. Golbez, Exdeath, Zeal)
2) the mysterious shadowy villain (e.g. Sephiroth)
3) a sadist, who enjoyed seeing others suffer (basically a toned-down version of the Kefka we know)
4) other

(I will null vote in the poll.)

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I think Kefka was always an evil clown in drag, but his infusion just gave him a lot more power.

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"Luck is my middle name. Mind you, my first name is Bad." - Rincewind

You can be as self-assertive as you like, just so long as you do what you’re told.” - Granny Weatherwax

"When Mr. Safety Catch Is Not On, Mister Crossbow Is Not Your Friend" - Sam Vimes to Detritus

Nobody is "evil" upon birth, so my answer is no.

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FFXI (Siren server)
Tauu the Windurstian Tarutaru!
White Mage & Paladin

Whoops...I noticed a wording in my original post that might be misleading: By "was evil initially" I mean that he was a bad person even before the infusion. As i90east said, nobody is evil at birth, but I just wanted to know if you think Kefka was a "bad guy" even before he got the infusion or whether the evil part came later, either as a result of the infusion or from some later influence.

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Check the "What games are you playing at the moment?" thread for updates on what I've been playing.

You can find me on the Fediverse! I use Mastodon, where I am @[email protected] ( https://sakurajima.moe/@glennmagusharvey )

In my opinion, the infusion itself does not cause someone's personality or emotions to change, so he very well could have been evil before that. However, the power that he suddenly received could have corrupted him as well.

So it's not really easy to tell, by the game alone, if he was or not. I think he was probably at least a little on the evil side, beforehand :-)

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I had an old signature. Now I've changed it.

I think that he started selfish. WOW! you mean this infusion thing would make me more powerful, I like the sound of that! And wammo, he's twisted into a supremely evil being intent on ruling the world. Which would have happened much more slowly without the infusion.

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The Cockatrice is a wonderful animal, after weeks of studying, I have finaly mastered its art of petrification, not without the help of a few softs mind you, but all the same...
Drat, *dink, dink* there goes another one.

Hmm, I see. Well the game never addresses the matter so how would anyone here know? It's all speculation, but let's consider: How old is Kefka, Gestahl and Cid? How old was Kefka during his infusion? Where was Kefka raised, and who raised him?

Hate comes from hate, and I don't think anyone hated Kefka when he was young unless it was some character the game doesn't disclose (his biological mother or father perhaps). With loving parents Kefka would have been a peaceful young lad. There was probably nothing abnormal about him before the operation (going along with the game's story).

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FFXI (Siren server)
Tauu the Windurstian Tarutaru!
White Mage & Paladin

Information on Cefca's past isn't really given. In the U.S. version, they replaced C with K (hence, Kefka) and probably wished to associate him with Franz Kafka. (As Lock became Locke, as in John Locke, and Tina became Terra, as in the Earth.)

It doesn't really matter. Cefca's an archetype for pure evil, undeniably. Though he does have a penchant for Sadean personality traits. The Grand Marquis would have been proud.

Hard to explain my stance....but I think that the magitek infusion drew out weirdness from his past. Like, his evil side wasn't there until the infusion somehow drew it out.

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Hey, put the cellphone down for a while
In the night there is something wild
Can you hear it breathing?
And hey, put the laptop down for a while
In the night there is something wild
I feel it, it's leaving me

Well when exactly did the infusion take place? Was it when he was turning all of the espers into magicite? No wait that wouldn't be right.

I do know that he really seemed to enjoy poisoning Doma castle's water supply. He really seemed to get a good kick out of killing the inhabitants that way. So I would have to say...YES of course he was evil!!!

But "evil" can be hard to define sometimes so I'll put it another way. He wasn't concerned with other's safety. He had no problem with killing anyone off who got in his way. He killed the Emperor and Leo and he seemed to be enjoying himself killing the espers and gathering their magicite.

I don't think the magitek infusion had any affect on his capacity to be evil, other than when his power was increased it was easier to get what he wanted so the temptation to take it was greater.

Celes had an infusion too didn't she? She didn't seem to be turning evil at all.

This post has been edited by Rujuken on 8th February 2004 02:08

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-- You're Gonna Carry That Weight --

I voted he wasn't evil just on what the one man in the Vector pub told the group about how "something inside Kefka snapped that day". Even Celes probably changed. She became the "Ice Queen" after her infusion and was a cold-blooded killer with no remorse for what she did. Luckily she came back to her senses to realize what she was doing, Kefka never did.

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War is for the participants a test of character; it makes bad men worse and good men better. - Joshua Chamberlain

U sir R a n00b >:-( - Cactuar

I think he was evil to begin with, and the infusion just made him unstable. His kind of instability would result from him previously being a "cruel dictator" kind of evil. Like one who would beat his underlings whenever aggravated.

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"I had to write four novels before they let me write comic books."
-Brad Meltzer

Humans being natrually evil in most cases, about 99%. Atones for most of the problems in our world today. In my humble opinion and that of Thomas Hobbs and Makiavelli, Believe the only thing keeping Humans from Constantly killing, stealing, being bad in General is government. But Kefka was part of government, and seems as though he always saw himself as above Government Jurisdiction. Humans are always BAD from birth. its a fact of life, As Stated government keepds us in line. But what i can say is Gesthal was Evil Pre Magic For Sure as he was power hungary and bad Before they found the espers.

This post has been edited by MogMaster on 8th February 2004 04:45

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If you've been mod-o-fied,
It's an illusion, and you're in-between.
Don't you be tarot-fied,
It's just alot of nothing, so what can it mean?
~Frank Zappa

Sins exist only for people who are on the Way or approaching the Way

Quote (MogMaster @ 8th February 2004 06:40)

Humans being natrually evil in most cases, about 99%. Atones for most of the problems in our world today. In my humble opinion and that of Thomas Hobbs and Makiavelli, Believe the only thing keeping Humans from Constantly killing, stealing, being bad in General is government. But Kefka was part of government, and seems as though he always saw himself as above Government Jurisdiction. Humans are always BAD from birth. its a fact of life, As Stated government keepds us in line. But what i can say is Gesthal was Evil Pre Magic For Sure as he was power hungary and bad Before they found the espers.

I don't agree at all. Humans aren't bad from birth and there is not just a government that keeps us in line. Every human has got some evil and some good in himself/herself. It's (partly) the way you were raised as a child that decides how you are going to be as an adult. If it was only about the government, why do people keep breaking the law when they know they may get punished? Why do they shoot eachother when they know they are going to get a death sentence (in the USA, that is)? No, people who comit crimes ignore the government.

But back on topic, I believe Kefka was slightly "evil" before the infusion. Perhaps he was very arrogant, selfish and had some sadistic feelings, but not so far that he fell over the edge? And then, the magitek stuff damaged his brain and made him ultra-violent. Such things can happen. There was once a guy who got an iron pole driven right through his brain (by accident), but he survived, and didn't get that much physical damages. But after the accident, his personality changed and he became very violent and selfish. The reason was because the iron pole had crushed certain parts of his brain that controlled emotion and love and such. Perhaps that's what the magitek stuff did with Kefka's brain, and made him fall over the edge?

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People say I'm a slow learner, but I type fast!

Clowns are insanely evil, anyone who wants to become one is insane

I think he was insane right from the begining

Thats why he rules...

You have a point Drake....

Just look at Steve-o...

He was a clown before he did Jackass, His cans are WAY short of a six-pack!

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Ozzie - lead singer from Black Sabbath
Flea - Bassist from Red Hot Chilli Peppers
Slash - Guitarist from Guns 'n' Roses

He drinks and smokes his cares away
His heart is in the lonely way
Living in the ruins
Of a castle built on sand...

Tell The King - The Libertines

Most likely a 2-3 pack

Steve-o is totally insane...

Let's look at some information:

Gestahl's generals - Leo, Kefka, Celes

Magitek infusion was given to Kefka, then Celes (then to many others, we assume). According to the NPC guy, something in Kefka's brain "snapped" when the infusion was done. It makes sense, because he was the first attempt, and obviously something had to go wrong. If you look at Celes, she was fine. And General Leo, who was not infused, was also fine and a nice guy. Celes and Leo both realized the stupidity in the war, though Leo was too loyal to leave and join the party.

Another bit of information: if Leo and Celes saw things were wrong, and Kefka was "snapped" and obviously wouldn't be able to see that things are wrong, wouldn't Emperor Gestahl be the 'evil' one? Now, either it's his plans, or Kefka's corrupting him. However, after seeing his other two generals split, you'd think he'd realise something is up and turn against Kefka.

Here's my conclusion: either Emperor Gestahl planned to have the infusion go wrong on Kefka (but then you'd expect him to have a hand in it with Celes), or he just used Kefka's insanity. We all know that the Emperor has evil in him. He staged the banquet to get you to unlock the Sealed Cave. It could have been Kefka's idea, but Kefka did NOT seem to happy at all to be in that cell.

My theory, then, is that Kefka wasn't evil before the infusion, but the Emperor was always evil, and then the "crazified" Kefka liked that and stuck with the Emperor.

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--sbq92 <><

Quote (Shirrow @ 8th February 2004 10:50)

[/QUOTE]
I don't agree at all. Humans aren't bad from birth and there is not just a government that keeps us in line. Every human has got some evil and some good in himself/herself. It's (partly) the way you were raised as a child that decides how you are going to be as an adult. If it was only about the government, why do people keep breaking the law when they know they may get punished? Why do they shoot eachother when they know they are going to get a death sentence (in the USA, that is)? No, people who comit crimes ignore the government.

I reinstate. The Government keeps natrual human evil down for the most part. But In some cases it cant due to the Individuals personal feelings beliefs, ect. This is why murder exists. this is why postmen shoot old ladys. this is why war exists. humans are bad, crimes occur due to some Humans seeing them selves above the law. The government exists to keep a large precent of us from exploring our primal urges. I recommned that those of you who disagreee go read lord of the flies. As you will see ALL the Small children in that book who represent society, tuen to evil when the Government (parents) no longer jurisdict them.

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If you've been mod-o-fied,
It's an illusion, and you're in-between.
Don't you be tarot-fied,
It's just alot of nothing, so what can it mean?
~Frank Zappa

Sins exist only for people who are on the Way or approaching the Way

Kefka was always evil, IMO. I would be very disappointed if he was a little nice soldier before he was infused with magitek. He gained a lot of power when infused, and since power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely, he kept getting VERY evil, indeed.

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Wow. 1,000 posts.

I miss you all now that I'm in boarding school! ;_;

I'm with Mr. Nicolo Machiavelli and MogMaster on this one. Humans are kept in line by government. You may not be the kind of person that would go and mow down everyone they see if they could do it and get away with it, but that doesn't mean there aren't those that would. Stop looking at the world through rose colored glasses, there are evil people out there and if you don't think so, your either naive or Howard Dean. You don't think a person that goes into Moscow subways and blow up 3 dozen people are evil? What about Palestinians who blow up old Israelis while they eat dinner during Passover? Please refer to Adolf Hitler, Josef Stalin, Pol Pot and various other tyrants of the 20th century if you think people aren't inherintly evil, and if you want some examples from Machiavelli's own time, research Cesare Borgia, who was the inspiration for Machiavelli's "The Prince".

But back on topic, I think Kefka was evil before the operation. A botched MagiTek infusion couldn't have F'ed anyone up THAT bad. I doubt there is anything that someone could do to turn a mild mannered, happy, mentally stable person into a raving, sadistic, homocidal clown in the blink of an eye. Kefka was simply born with evilness inside and no potential for good.

This post has been edited by The Raging Newbie on 8th February 2004 20:34

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Blood & Fire

Quote

Magitek infusion was given to Kefka, then Celes (then to many others, we assume). 

I only thought two people were infused - Celes and Kefka. Cid had a hand in raising Celes, while Gestahl had a hand in raising Kefka. (Unless I'm mistaken.) The conversation on Floating Continent where Gestahl tells Celes it is hers and Kefka's birthright to rule with him, makes it seem likely there was only two.

Remember Cid had a kind heart deep down, which is probably why Celes turned out as she did. But Gestahl...when he opposed Kefka it wasn't because he suddenly felt guilty or anything, it's just he wanted to rule the world, not destroy it. He wasn't nice. Hence Kefka wasn't.

(I'm only guessing Gestahl raised Kefka, since there is nothing in the game that concludes otherwise I don't think)

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"Luck is my middle name. Mind you, my first name is Bad." - Rincewind

You can be as self-assertive as you like, just so long as you do what you’re told.” - Granny Weatherwax

"When Mr. Safety Catch Is Not On, Mister Crossbow Is Not Your Friend" - Sam Vimes to Detritus

believe there were many who were infused. Weren't all the monsters in the Magitek factory infused with magic? I doubt they'd infuse someone properly (Celes) and then not use the powerful technolgy for their armies. However, I could be wrong.

Gestahl could also use magic, so he was probably infused, too.

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--sbq92 <><

Quote (sbq92 @ 9th February 2004 01:00)

believe there were many who were infused.  Weren't all the monsters in the Magitek factory infused with magic?  I doubt they'd infuse someone properly (Celes) and then not use the powerful technolgy for their armies.  However, I could be wrong.

Gestahl could also use magic, so he was probably infused, too.

Actually, that's a good question. When Gestahl arrives at Floating Continent, no one ever claims how he got such powerful spells. Maybe he just did what the party did - when they all realised Cid's idea of

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

draining Espers when they were still alive

wasn't working, they killed a couple of Espers and took their spells. Just think of all the Espers there could have been if they hadn't killed any. But anyway, that seems much more likely. None of the other twelve characters in the game needed to be infused with magic to use it like Celes, they just got to use the spells when they grabbed the essence of dead Espers.

What do you mean, monsters? I haven't been there in a while, but I don't think any monsters other than MagiTek Armor could use MagiTek spells, unless you mean Espers. I could be wrong tho.

And Kefka and Celes could have been prototypes...think of Kuja and Zidane from FF9. Their story is pretty similar, one is corrupted and one is pure.

This post has been edited by Iggy on 9th February 2004 16:43

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"Luck is my middle name. Mind you, my first name is Bad." - Rincewind

You can be as self-assertive as you like, just so long as you do what you’re told.” - Granny Weatherwax

"When Mr. Safety Catch Is Not On, Mister Crossbow Is Not Your Friend" - Sam Vimes to Detritus

If I remember correctly, someone tells your party that all the monsters inside the Magitek factory have been infused with magic. If you go through, you'll notice enemies actually using magic on your team.

Oh, and I just remembered something interesting: Emperor Gestahl raised Terra, and she turned out fine (they actually had to use a slave crown to get her to do what they wanted her to do).

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--sbq92 <><

*nod* I'm guessing Gestahl raised Kefka, too. Unless anyone has any evidence to suggest otherwise?

And as for infusing monsters and humans, I still think only two humans were infused, Celes and Kefka - although many monsters probably were. It's like scientists nowadays, always putting the tests on animals but never humans. We've never tried to clone a human before.

Like I said, these are just theories so if anyone else thinks I'm wrong please say...it's always nice to get a bit more information on a great game.

This post has been edited by Iggy on 9th February 2004 19:10

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"Luck is my middle name. Mind you, my first name is Bad." - Rincewind

You can be as self-assertive as you like, just so long as you do what you’re told.” - Granny Weatherwax

"When Mr. Safety Catch Is Not On, Mister Crossbow Is Not Your Friend" - Sam Vimes to Detritus

Okay, I think Kefka wasn't all evil before the infusion. He was probably a bit too ambitious though.
As for the change, remember: he was the first, experimental magitek infused soldier. Something probably went wrong while at it.

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Ooh, Ooh! I've got more evidence to prove that Celes and Kefka were the only ones.

Biggs and Wedge weren't infused, and they're not just ordinary grunts since they were assigned with lookin after Terra, Gestahl's greatest weapon.

Leo wasn't infused, and he's the same rank as Celes, if not higher. If three people were infused, they would be Celes, Kefka and Leo. But Leo wasn't infused, probably because Celes and Kefka were experimental and they probably wanted to see how useful magitek infused soldiers would be or if there was any sideeffects.

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"Luck is my middle name. Mind you, my first name is Bad." - Rincewind

You can be as self-assertive as you like, just so long as you do what you’re told.” - Granny Weatherwax

"When Mr. Safety Catch Is Not On, Mister Crossbow Is Not Your Friend" - Sam Vimes to Detritus

Leo refused, if I remember correctly. But let's not stray too far from the core topic of whether Kefka was naughty even before infusion, eh?

i'm sure kefka was something of an evil character before the magitek infusion. in fact, i'm sure he was evil enough that the diffrence between pre- and post-infusion kefkas wasn't just *that* great; after all, what kind of emperor keeps his malfunctioning biological experiments? on top of that, ghestal is evil himself, and kefka was always gestahl's right-hand-man, right? i mean, it certainly seems that kefka was closer to gestahl than both leo and celes (and i doubt it was any different before...again, who would *promote* someone for going crazy?). i'm guessing that gestahl and kefka had similar ambitions and similar lack of inhibitions to doing what they needed to to get what they wanted. and thus, they are both evil.