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Just recently I read and heard of yet another kid getting suspended for saying a cuss word or some bull which really got me thinking...do we even have freedom of speech anyomore or is it just nonsense. I know how little those kids are they shouldn't be saying those words but still, they obviously hear them often if they say it eh? I don't see how people get so angry over mere words, I mean c'mon they can't really hurt you unless you take them way too seriously. I think we should just leave those kids alone but still discipline them in some way but not to suspend them.

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"If Satan is the prince of darkness, then that would make me the KING!"

Well freedom of speech does exist so long as the speech used is dignified. And swearing is not as such. Needless to say your school is full of it if the suspend someone for something so small. All everyone else gets is a verbal slap on the wrist and thats the end of it. It's just the school that has the problem. What really ticked me off is when someone at a church camp let a cuss slip from her mouth by pure accident (we all do that every now and again). And then she has to make a formal apology infront of everybody. Then I hear everyone be so critical over it. I got angry and thought fine these people think they're so damn perfect I want everyone(including me) to go up and confess infront of everyone for all the little things.

So yes Kuja I'am a sympathiser for your cause.

Well... Freedom of speech does not mean that you can just say anything you want. What the framers of the constitution had in mind was to not prevent people from speaking about about the government. Such speech is a very dangerous thing in some parts of the world, and I'm glad I live in a country where we can criticize the government without having to look over our shoulders. There are limitations to this, of course, like sedition, but that is beside the point. Freedom of speech does not allow you to cuss in front of other people, and the kid should have been disciplined. It's for his or her own good, after all, it is a very valuable lesson in life to know when it is and is not appropriate to swear. I swear all the time but I don't do it in certain situations where it is not appropriate. I am thankful that I had parents and schoolteachers who were pretty hard on that kind of stuff. Although it does seem pretty outrageous to suspend someone for it. Unless the nature of the swearing was extreme (like telling the principal to f off in his face) in my school the worst you could get would be a detention.

This post has been edited by Gerad on 7th February 2004 23:32

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"Hit hard, hit first, hit often."

--Adm. William "Bull" Halsey, USN

I say that some form of discipline should be applied, but a suspension is overdoing it. I don't have any ideas for "acceptable forms of discipline", though; all I can say is that children should have learned better when they were young not to use such language.

(I personally like to use alternative words, such as "Shut the heck up" and "holy crap" and "Darn" and "You holy fool" (in place of "Shut the f--- up", "holy sh--", "Damn", and "You f---in' idiot"). Yes, I consider "holy" to be a valid substitute for an expletive.)

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Check the "What games are you playing at the moment?" thread for updates on what I've been playing.

You can find me on the Fediverse! I use Mastodon, where I am @[email protected] ( https://sakurajima.moe/@glennmagusharvey )

Yeah, freedom of speech really only goes so far.

But I think what you're talking about applies more to what society considers to be "bad" words. Personally I think the idea of a word being inheritly bad is pretty stupid, and I don't think anyone should be punished for just saying words no matter what the words may be.

Now using words to...let's say, try to hurt someone's feeling is a different matter. I think that sort of thing should be frowned upon and children should be taught to try not to hurt others with there words.

But I don't think a kid should be punished for blurting out F**k or whatever because he broke something or hurt himself.

And yes the suspension was really over doing it.

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-- You're Gonna Carry That Weight --

Well I am doing my student teaching right now so I am in the classroom observing the way students act. At the high school level you hear every sort of word in the hallway but I usually ignore it unless it gets out of hand. I have heard stories about students telling teachers to "F**k off!" or calling a female teachers a "b***ch" to their faces. I have not yet had that problem but when it does happen, and it will, I will send them to the office to see the principle. Now I don't mind them using some words like hell or damn but when it gets offensive then there is a problem. Unless they use the word as a threat I do not think they should be suspended but they should be disicplined because they have to realize that you can't go around talking like that, especially when they are older. If they told their boss when they are adults they will find themselves at the unemployment line so they have to learn to be able to control their language. I am an avid swearer but I never bring it to the classroom or workplace, I save it for the teachers lounge with the rest of the teachers

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War is for the participants a test of character; it makes bad men worse and good men better. - Joshua Chamberlain

U sir R a n00b >:-( - Cactuar

First of all, the Freedom of Speech does not apply to kids. So, this said, that kid was rightfully suspended. Now, cussing at a teacher will get you suspended at my school. Cussing at another student will get you suspended. Cussing for no reason at all will just get you a warning. We as kids have basically no civil rights. We have the Right to Live, the Right to Pursue Happiness, etc. Why is there a cause to cuss when you're below the ages of 15 anyway? Just think of another word or count to ten. I encourage speaking what you feel as long as it doesn't involve cussing. If you get suspended, it was for a good cause. Those are my feelings on Freedom of Speech.

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"The Hero I am not. I can do naught."

Respect Frog...

Well, some people would believe that swear words are ugly words, that can be used hurtfully and offensively and should not be used by children. I would tend to agree with those, though sometimes the lesson isn't taught well.

If you, say, teach little Johnny not to call Susan the word for female dog, but don't bother to say why he shouldn't (because it's disrespectful and hurtful), he may instead turn around and insult her without using swearwords "you're ugly!" "you're fat and no one will ever like you!" "you smell funny!" etc.

It's not so much about taking away free speech, I think, as trying to teach the children how to conduct themselves.

Parents take this very seriously, it's not a new thing.

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I had an old signature. Now I've changed it.

Yeah, you're right aboutt that Elena. I know I was never told why not to say a "curse" word. The closest I ever got to an explanation went something like this:

Ruju: *Falls down and bangs elbow pretty hard* Shit!

Mother: Don't say that!

Ruju: Why not?

Mother: 'Cause its a dirty word.

Mind you this was an excuse I recieved when I was in my mid-teens so I kinda doubt my mother thought I wouldn't understand her explanation.

Again words aren't bad. Its how you use them.

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-- You're Gonna Carry That Weight --

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,110458,00.html



I believe in freedom of speech, but there are times when it's "acceptable" and times when you just need to shut up

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"When I turn the page
The corner bends into the perfect dog ear
As if the words knew I'd need them again
But at the time, I didn't see it."

~"This Ain't a Surfin' Movie" - Minus the Bear

All freedoms are limited in public schools because the Supreme Court has ruled it a special circumstance.
"Freedom of Speech" doesn't mean you can say any word you wish or others must concede when you want a soap box. It means the exchange and expression of proper ideas and ideals cannot result in the govt putting a hit out on you.

I think you are missing some information. Just saying "damn" or something similar isn't going to get someone suspended. It was probably a racial slur or the student was directly disrespecting a teacher.

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"I had to write four novels before they let me write comic books."
-Brad Meltzer

You can argue that kids have hardly any civil liberties, but come on, there's got to be a line drawn somewhere when you say something that is spiteful, needlessly hurtful to another student, and generally rude and offensive. Do you think it is OK to yell out racial or religious slurs, and that you think you should be able to say it whenever you want? Yes, you can say the words, you have the freedom to say whatever you want, but you can't expect to have absolutely no consequences whatsoever.

I think the reason the rights are somewhat "restricted" at an early age are to give young kids a sense of morals. What's to stop them later in life when they could get into some serious trouble with people in public places if they don't have a general idea of what should definately not be said, regardless of what they may want to say.

And hey, is suspension really all that bad? You get a reason to stay home from school .

So as a child, a kid goes around swearing, maybe making racial slurs, etc. without any discipline because it's "freedom of speech". As he grows up, he realizes more and more that no one's going to stop or put a limit on what he has to say. So he pretty much uses whatever language he wants through his early years. Now, one day he finds himself in the big city (after being in a sheltered white neighborhood most of his life for example), sees a group of African American and yells out "Hey, get out of here you stupid N'worders." Kid gets shot, or severely beaten and dies. If only he'd been taught not to be such an offensive jackass.

Good idea though, we should really let kids say whatever they want.

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The clouds ran away, opened up the sky
And one by one I watched every constellation die
And there I was frozen, standing in my backyard
Face to face, eye to eye, staring at the last star
I should've known, walked all the way home
To find that she wasn't here, I'm still all alone

-Atmosphere "Always Coming Back Home to You"

Cussing is not freedom of speech, it is when you speak your opinion... Back when my grandpa was a kid he would get beaten if he even uttered half a curse

But, anywho, yea its stupid, I think the f word should be aloud on tv not just HBO

And anyone should be aloud to curse anywhere, I mean I curse in every single place its aloud and in other places too

In school, too, Drake? Why? I mean, all that would do is teach other young, impressionable children new words. What if the kids start going up to people and using them, because they're kids and don't always think? What if the kids get in trouble, like Tidu-who described?



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I had an old signature. Now I've changed it.

I started cursing when I was 6

XD

Moderator Edit

That's... great. Keep up the good work. Oh, and join the topic any time you please. -R51

This post has been edited by Rangers51 on 9th February 2004 11:30

I'm not sure if I'm getting off topic or not but I'm going to make one more post.

As Kuja stated kids are bashed on too much for using words that society views as innapropirate or "bad". Discipline should be involved for the use of hateful words but I hardly think a kid should be suspended for just using a simple curse word.

The adults who are in charge of handling the situation should take more time to deal with the situation. Find out why the child said what he/she did, etcetra.

And I think some people are confusing the idea of a "bad" word, like the F word, with racial slurs, which are words that are specifically meant to piss other types people off.

But still that should be dealt with in a similar manner. If a kid goes around spouting the N word all the time, bring him/her in and sit them down. Ask them do they know what the word means (I'm not really sure myself). Ask why are they using it. Ask do they know that they could be hurting other peoples feelings or making them angry by using that word.

If the kid is actually talked through all of this I would hope that the child would have a good sense of what he/she is capable doing with these words.

Yet again I say its not the word that is bad. Its the way you use it. The way in which the word is used should dictate whether discipline is necessary.

Oh well...I can ramble all I want. I guess it won't change much.

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-- You're Gonna Carry That Weight --

When I'm teaching and I hear a student swear, the penalty is that they have to come back the next day with a list of ten vocabulary words from our unit, with the definitions and an example sentence. So far no one besides the first kid I've caught has swore around me .

On the subject of the N-word, it's hard because the classroom I'm student teaching in is all black, and many have grown up hearing the word used as an affectionate term for their own race. I haven't really figured out how to address it yet. Since it's not officially my classroom, and I'm not technically employed by the school, and they are 4th graders, I'm not going to try to approach the subject yet, but maybe when I have a classroom of my own someday I'll figure out a way to talk about it.

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Hip-Hop QOTW:

"Yeah, where I'ma start it at, look I'ma part of that
Downtown Philly where it's realer than a heart attack
It wasn't really that ill until the start of crack
Now it's a body caught every night on the Almanac"

"Game Theory"
The Roots

I'm not that certain that about freedom of speech, but about kids getting in trouble for saying dirty words, I say that it's not the words they use, but the intent behind the words. Hence, if they are being nasty to someone and they really mean what they are saying, then they should probably be punished. If they're just joking around, then just shrug and go on.

I'm a Red Wing Pilot, yeah, yeah, yeah!

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Wow. 1,000 posts.

I miss you all now that I'm in boarding school! ;_;

ok i understand if soimeone says the big three or four whatever it is and gets suspended because those might offend someone but freedom of speech is restricted because you can't go around screaming anything for example you cant run into a movie theatre and yell FIRE because you are putting people lives in danger or making them think they are in danger. Well i just think schools you should cuss but ive been hearing lots of this stuff about suspension and junk like this 8 year old in pittsburg, i think, she said to another kid (because he did something wrong) "Dont do that or you will go to hell" she was just telling the kid he should do that!!! i think that is messed up and then i, myself, have been given a detention for saying the word PISS, i dont think that is even a cuss word and plus she didnt give me a warning so that just stupid.

In conclusion (i feel like im writing a paper which i think i need to do in a while) Freedom of speech is limited especially in school becuase you dont want people going around calling every black person a "N" word even though you can but in school it is sort of a protected enviroment i guess well thats my two cents back to you Kent Brockman

Moderator Edit

Please don't use that word when you really mean stupid, or the like. "Gay" isn't an insult, it's a description of sexual preference, or a word that means happy. Yes, I see the oddness of having to mod that in a freedom of speech thread. - Elena99

sorry Elena99 its a bad habit i will stop for you... i didnt mean too i think everything is "stupid" even though it isn't "stupid" or happy

This post has been edited by RacistAgainstChocobos on 12th February 2004 04:29

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"Isn't ramza a girls name?" -me

i havent changed my avatar or anything in a long time! time for a change yall!

This is a very pressing issue in our lives today...sort of. Freedom of Speech does indeed not apply to kids. I think this topic was more geared towards Freedom of Speech in schools rather than Freedom of Speech in general as the name misleadingly implies. So, with that said, I will press the issue of Freedom of Speech in schools rather than out.

So far, I have not been suspended for saying any foul word. Cussing does not appeal to me simply because I have no reason to. Sure, replacing cuss words in front of friends with other euphamisms is a bit embarassing, but you are less likely to get caught if you do so. In today's society, going around ranting and raving with cuss words flying a mile-a-minute out of your mouth is considered "cool". All of my friends do it. I, fortunately, have not caught on to their bad habits and am thankful. At my school, warnings are given out instead of punishment. If I was to, say, voice my opinion about a certain issue at school, that would be perfetly fine as a long as it is appropiate for school. I know it is tough for kids to sit there and have essentially no civil rights, but that's the way it goes and we, unfortuantely, as children can do nothing to resist it.

Racistagainstchocoboes:

I can see another reason, though, why people would jump on that 8 year old. She told the boy that he would go to Hell if he did something. Schools are very, very sensitive about religious connections, and having a kid going around telling other kids where they would go if they did something bad is not something schools want.

I wonder what the kid did, too. The 8 year old who she was damning, I mean. That really affects the whole thing; for example, he may have tossed a rock at the side of the school building, or wrote on a wall, or somethig else that you're not really supposed to do, but do when you're 8 because you don't always know better. Telling an 8-year-old that he's going to Hell over something that isn't even a sin is just, well, not something that you encourage.

When I was in school, you didn't hear swear words in the classroom like that. It was really rare, and then when you got into the hallways, you'd hear it more often and people were sent to detention. I guess things have changed a bit since, eh? Or maybe it's location, too.

I agree that it's not just the words, it's how you use them, but how else do you discipline kids and teens these days if they don't care about detention anymore? Should we just let them run amok?

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I had an old signature. Now I've changed it.

I know what you mean but i don't remember what the kid did, i will ask my dad we heard it on the radio. Andeven if it is religious i mean like you said that kids don't really know what sin is and that is why exactly this girl did she said that someone is going to hell because she heard in church or where ever that if you are bad thats where you go. So how is that any worse than if the kids spray painted the school. I just believe it was wrong for her to be suspended i mean an 8 year old girl! and it was 0 tolerance policy. I just believe kids (below 10) should betaught better. I am not defending the girl its just the suspension i agree that she should've had said that because of religion, but also almost every religion has hell except for athiast and budhist, so you can look at it that way. Any ways she shouldnt have said it, and should have gotten suspended once she did.

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"Isn't ramza a girls name?" -me

i havent changed my avatar or anything in a long time! time for a change yall!

I have to agree that the issue isn't necessarily what someone says, but the intent they have behind it. However, this presents its own problems. With the case of racial slurs, the issue is extremely complicated. When a certain racial group adopts a racial slur as an acceptible term of benevolence, it helps to eliminate the offensive power of that word. Additionally, when a child of a different racial group grows up within that environment, he may only learn the benevolent conotation. The problem with this situation is when he leaves this environment, he may move to an environment where he's unknown and his meaning behind the word may be misunderstood and thus misinterpreted. He'd be much more likely to offend someone or get into some serious trouble.

That said, I've also noticed that different regions of the country have different ideas of swear words. Some places only consider the f-word, c-word and s-word to be swearing, while in some places using the word bastard with any meaning (in my case, refering to the anime) will get you a cold stare from anybody within hearing distance. As will any sort of thing that doesn't go along with the religious status quo of the area. And that's just this country. Some places are much, much worse. Oh, and none of this seems to apply to anyone under the age of fourteen. Anything remotely offensive or objectionable seems to be interpreted as swearing, then. :P

wow you all just keep talking and i think of things to say... i am just so talkative.

Question to you all about racial slurs. How come black people can call each other the "N" word while if white people say it they get jumped i know that you shouldnt say it. I am white and i learned early on not to say that but how come when a black person says it to another balck person it is not offensive. I am just wondering. and another thing the reason i think school is messed up is because i got a detention from saying PISS while the mexicans in the back of the class cuss out the same teacher out loud and she doesn't do anything about it! Its like she is picking on me!!!

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"Isn't ramza a girls name?" -me

i havent changed my avatar or anything in a long time! time for a change yall!

Does "piss" count as a "bad word" anyways? I didn't count it as such; I considered it slang, but apparently one of my former teachers thinks so.

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Check the "What games are you playing at the moment?" thread for updates on what I've been playing.

You can find me on the Fediverse! I use Mastodon, where I am @[email protected] ( https://sakurajima.moe/@glennmagusharvey )

When a black person calls another black person the n word, its ussually thier way of making fun of the rascism behind the word itself. Theyve had to endure being called it in anger and hate for so long that they started saying it to eachother as a defense mechanism. Thats why when black people call eachother the n word, its a joke between them, and when a white guy calls a black guy the n word, its is, and always will be taken as racist.

i guess that explains it pretty well even though i will never fully understand why a black person want to call another black person that word. Its like white people being called crackers i mean its not bad but hey... you know???

And my teacher thinks every word is a cuss word piss as well. She used to tell us "a kind word can warm three winter months" i will never get that out of my head. I dont even cuss in front of her, i dont cuss in class. I do cuss in front of my friend but we just play around we never hurt each others feeling, we are a really happy bunch...

Sorry getting off topic as i said.... My teacher gave my friend on a test that is 5 point for every wrong answear an 80 when he missed 6, do the math. Wow i hate my Spanish teacher so much...

Sorry off topic... Yeah i guess i understand the black people thing now.

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"Isn't ramza a girls name?" -me

i havent changed my avatar or anything in a long time! time for a change yall!

Political Correctness is a matter of opinion. Personally wordsare words. I dont understand The Whole PC concept. Id like to ask the moderators to give me a little lee way at this point on the language. If i was to cal some one a Ni**** would it not be the same as calling them black, or to Be more PC African American? No matter how you put it all three terms refer to a person who has dark skin color. Its not offensive, it shouldnt be. what probably happened as way back when a bunch of WASP's decided they would like to regulate what is proper and whatnot and so it stuck. the fact that someone could be offended by one word and Not by another that means the EXACT same thing is Ridiculous. Like Dead. I killed the man he is dead. Not passed away, or Gone on. Or Bought the farm, dead. we all beieve that Hiding Behind a Euphimism is Ok to make things PC. But the reality of it is Euphimisms are only words that intelligent people make up to make things sound less crappy than they really are. Its beating around the bush and i dont like it. This is why politicians can lie so much and get away with it. Becaouse the ignorant american Populous cant decifer one word from the next. If everyone was allowed to speak bluntly we would have a better world. Refering back to Final Fantasies, i enjoy the DIRECT translation far more than the english one because if a character swears, like Kefka persay, youget a better feel for them. Where as if in the direct translationa chracter restricts his or her speech you know more about them in a way.

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If you've been mod-o-fied,
It's an illusion, and you're in-between.
Don't you be tarot-fied,
It's just alot of nothing, so what can it mean?
~Frank Zappa

Sins exist only for people who are on the Way or approaching the Way

i agree N word isnt all that bad but it in american culture it is bad in Spanish black is negro and it is not offensive or anything... it is jus the society we live in....

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"Isn't ramza a girls name?" -me

i havent changed my avatar or anything in a long time! time for a change yall!