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And with a guy like Kefka, it's not generally a good idea to dig to deep into what he's wearing and why he's wearing it.

Well, I wasn't really digging into his reasons for wearing his gaudy, colorful outfits as much as just stating my hypothesis as to the inspiration of his character model.

Amano's character art really, in my opinion, really sheds a lot of light as far as suggesting a 17th century / old franco/hispano-philic fashion. Eh, I suppose the only person who knows the source of inspiration for Kefka Palazzo is Amano himself.... but I sure do enjoy formulating my own hypotheses.

By the way, about the Beetlegeuse-esque costume of Kefka... what a completely and disgracefuly defamatory portrayal of my favorite fallen angel / narcissistic madman. Do you honestly think that Kefka, the bringer of ruin and chaos, would let himself be caught in garb of material so cheap looking, eh? Plus, he would never let himself be that scawny and goofy looking.

This post has been edited by Stephen the Third on 1st February 2004 08:36

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Je ne t'aime plus,
Mon amour...

Je ne t'aime plus,
Tous les jours...

Heh, I was just looking through the fanart section here on CoN and found a couple of kefka images that I thoroughly enjoyed... just thought you all may want to see and be able to appreciate them. I think these are probably the best non-amano works I have seen as far as suggesting the same character mood / disposition. The rest seem to be almost too far into the whole "clown garb" territory.


these two were drawn by: Narratorway (excellent work, my friend)



This is by an unknown artist (pity, it is quite well drawn.)

The rest seem to be too clowny, some even going as far as putting a red nose / red nose make up on my favorite villain. Unacceptable!

heh, on that note, I shall bid you all adieu for the night.

Moderator Edit

Hikaroo is correct - don't double post. In the future, when you want to post again, do so by editing your first post. -R51

This post has been edited by Rangers51 on 1st February 2004 17:09

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Je ne t'aime plus,
Mon amour...

Je ne t'aime plus,
Tous les jours...

Kefka is Kefka. I can't think of anyway to say it. I don't think he's a clown, and I certainly think he's not any sort of royal anything except a pain in the butt. ^.^
I like 14v's thought.
I won't even bother joining this debate, but I do have to say one thing.
Why bother starting a thread asking what people think if you are going to go out of your way to prove them wrong and try and make them think your way? That sort of defeats the purpose of having an opinion.
And to be honest, you ramble so much that I got bored with reading what you wrote, and just read every one else's comments.
It's an outfit. Everyone sees things in different ways, and if someone says he's a clown, he's a stupid clown. If they say he's some noble freak, then he's a noble freak. It depends on the persons view.
Just from all of your speils and arguments, you're swaying me more towards him actually being a clown. Good job!
-.-

Edit

I'd edit your post instead of mine, but I'm not a mod of this forum. Don't double post. Edit your previous post if you would.

This post has been edited by Hikaroo on 1st February 2004 12:35

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..DDR..Maine..
..Hikaroo-chan no Deviantart..

<Tiddles> And I love how people suggest "Why not call it my great name?????" when their name is clearly the worst thing ever.
<Tiddles> "How about ; Mozilla Xplorer & Mozilla Xpress."
<Tiddles> How about you die in a fire?

Sorry about the whole double-post thing. I will be better about that in the future.

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Just from all of your speils and arguments, you're swaying me more towards him actually being a clown. Good job!

Well, then thank god you "just read everyone else's comments," Hikaroo.

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It's an outfit.

You know, as you are an artist I figured you would have been intrigued by the source of another's inspiration, especially since you enjoy drawing his (Amano's) characters. Pity that you aren't.

And true, this topic was originally just for opinions, I suppose. But if someone is using faulty logic in formulating an opinion, is it really wrong of me to tell them that? Also, is it wrong of me to post a defense of my argument in response to a post that counters it? If so, then I humbly ask for your the official CoN artist's forgiveness. Otherwise, thanks for posting this insightful, condescending little post of yours.

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Je ne t'aime plus,
Mon amour...

Je ne t'aime plus,
Tous les jours...

It's a game, Stephen the Third. A really well-done game, but a game. :-)

I did admit that your theory had merit, when I looked at the pictures and read the post. However, for all we know, the designers could have been thinking this:

"We need something new for this villain. Something unique, something we haven't done before...oh! Oh, hey, instead of the stereotypical dark colours and all, why don't we make him really bright and cheery looking! Wait, no, no...bright and creepy! Red and green colours, and blues, and yellows, clashing...white face paint with red streaks, like blood! And we'll give him a really creepy laugh, too."

Or maybe:

"You know what would make a good villain? A clown. Or, someone that looks like a clown. Hmm." "A clown? What?" "Well, no one would suspect a clown." "Maybe, but don't do just a clown. We want him to be scary, too."

I've read most of the comments, and what you've said, and I don't really see much faulty logic. Kefka is the result of a creative mind, and last I checked, creative minds tend to be more creative when they can step outside the box and not be logical :-)

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I had an old signature. Now I've changed it.

You can use logic all you want, Stephen. But you don't get to dictate what Kefka is or is not based solely on logic. If you really want to know, you would have to ask a minimum of three people, I think: Amano, Sakaguchi, and probably even Ted Woolsey. As the concept artist, producer, and localization director, they would have the most insight of anyone as to the true intent behind the creation of Kefka.

You mentioned earlier that only Amano has the true intent, for which I commend you. And since you recognize that, I just don't get why you're trying to convince anyone. Let them have their opinions.

Since all the arguments are based upon opinion rather than objective fact, there's no way to say that logic has a place. You're using your impressions to draw your conclusion, as is everyone else. There's no right or wrong in it, so why try to find some? You don't know any more than anyone else, so I don't feel that you get to point out where anyone's logic is wrong.

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"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN?

To me, Kefka was just some indescribable crazy but truly pure evil madman. I started noticing he did somewhat resemble a clown when I read some joke about evil clowns and when people started comparing him to a clown. In my opinion, Kefka isn't really categorizable into any 'group', and although he does bear similarities to clowns, jesters, nobility, etc., he doesn't really fit. I argue something that someone else once wrote about Kefka: Kefka is just a plainly cruel, purely evil, insane, crafty, yet dogged maniac for power, and he has a taste for destruction and killing. Somehow, although I haven't been able to figure out what kind of 'thing' he is, I still think he's the best-designed villain of all time (actually beats Queen Zeal, who is also very very evil). Somehow, even though he seems lame in that he does evil things directly and doesn't adopt a characteristic Golbez-like or Sephiroth-like attitude (two of the most oft-used designs that result in well-designed villains), he still seems amazing--especially that he could do so much evil and get so 'lucky' with his actions.

I null voted because I think Kefka is derived from a combination of inspirations, one of which might possibly be 17th century French nobility and another of which might be a clown/jester.

Edit: I read Elena99's post after I posted my original message, so I want to add a few things. I am quite convinced that Kefka was intentionally made to look light and silly so players wouldn't expect much from him in terms of plot, and then...you know what happened.

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

In the RPG I'm making I plan to make a strong allusion to Kefka. First, there's a rising army officer named Fastowitz Keff, who is notably cruel in his actions. When he is later killed, you don't see much more of him (duh) until you get to lower hell. There, you realize that he has been serving Lucifer. The fight with Lucifer will practically be copied from the final battle, and Lucifer is the only enemy in hell who is light-elemental. I emphasize the light-elemental part because Kefka does seem to be partially based on Lucifer (at least his final form) and this relationship strengthens the light/dark contrast between Kefka and many other villains, such as Golbez, Sephiroth, and Zeal.

This post has been edited by Glenn Magus Harvey on 4th February 2004 21:01

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Check the "What games are you playing at the moment?" thread for updates on what I've been playing.

You can find me on the Fediverse! I use Mastodon, where I am @[email protected] ( https://sakurajima.moe/@glennmagusharvey )

In my opinion no kefka is not a clown. He's more of an evuil genius. He realized the only way to make the people submit was through fear. This is a tried and true Method, Hitler, Stalin, Musolini, Nero, ect. The Makiavelli tactics used by these people including Kefka, clearly proves this. If only a Band of Ragtag heros had been there to Stop ole Adolf.....heh. Anyhow No clown could ever destroy a world and rule it through fear. Kefka Realized that the way he dressed was ou tthere, If you looked like Kefka did, you'd probably realize the only way anyone is taking you serious is if you destroy the world, and constantly batter the remanants.

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If you've been mod-o-fied,
It's an illusion, and you're in-between.
Don't you be tarot-fied,
It's just alot of nothing, so what can it mean?
~Frank Zappa

Sins exist only for people who are on the Way or approaching the Way

Yep, MogMaster, that's the kind of description I was looking for--an "evil genius" in the guise of a clown (so that people wouldn't take him seriously until it was too late). Thanks!

The thing about Kefka is that whereas Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, and Nero (and others) are at least somewhat reserved on killing and destroying (such as killing only certain groups of people), but Kefka destroys and kills almost indiscriminately as long as he recognizes that doing that would be to his advantage. He also (gasp!) enjoys killing and destroying things--that comes from the demented part of him. So he's an evil genius gone awry--making him even worse (and an even better antagonist).

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Check the "What games are you playing at the moment?" thread for updates on what I've been playing.

You can find me on the Fediverse! I use Mastodon, where I am @[email protected] ( https://sakurajima.moe/@glennmagusharvey )

I personally think he's supposed to be a hybrid of a clown/medieval jester which would explain the clothes and the attitude. But hey I was always a fan of Cefca (sorry i'm used to the JAP verion of the game, they don't call him Kefka in JAP) he reminded me of Dryst from Brigandine!

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"If Satan is the prince of darkness, then that would make me the KING!"

Quote (Glenn Magus Harvey @ 5th February 2004 16:22)

... and Nero (and others) are at least somewhat reserved on killing and destroying (such as killing only certain groups of people), but Kefka destroys and kills almost indiscriminately as long as he recognizes that doing that would be to his advantage.  He also (gasp!) enjoys killing and destroying things--that comes from the demented part of him.

FYI Nero was as demented as Kefka. As Rome Burned he played a violin, he was hella demented. The Only diffirence ids nero didnt have statues and an evil light beam, He killed at whim as suited his fancy


This post has been edited by MogMaster on 7th February 2004 05:00

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If you've been mod-o-fied,
It's an illusion, and you're in-between.
Don't you be tarot-fied,
It's just alot of nothing, so what can it mean?
~Frank Zappa

Sins exist only for people who are on the Way or approaching the Way

Word.

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FFXI (Siren server)
Tauu the Windurstian Tarutaru!
White Mage & Paladin

Aha. Thanks, i90east. That shows that even if the creators of Kefka didn't intend to make him clownish, they sure realized that he ended up clownish.

Also, a comment on the Kefka picture by an anonymous artist, shown in Stephen the Third's second post on this page (1 Feb. 2004 3:48): Whoever is pictured there seriously doesn't seem crazy enough to be the Kefka we know. But might it be Kefka before he went mad? But then why would he dress like that? Hmm...makes me want to start a new thread on this subject.

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Check the "What games are you playing at the moment?" thread for updates on what I've been playing.

You can find me on the Fediverse! I use Mastodon, where I am @[email protected] ( https://sakurajima.moe/@glennmagusharvey )

About i90's pic that he posted:
Although I think of Kefka as a clown, I'm not quite sure that's what they were refering to in that segment of dialogue. I think that they were trying to convey that the soldiers think that he's crazy. Of course, clown's are pretty crazy now that I think about it...

Hey, here's one reason you've had enough FFVI if:

-You develop Coulrophobia because of Kefka

EDIT - Realized it was my 300 post

This post has been edited by Figaro on 7th February 2004 23:23

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Wow. 1,000 posts.

I miss you all now that I'm in boarding school! ;_;

We defined the word "clown" at the beginning, and the above picture proves my case on the subjective front. Kefka can be referred to as a clown point blank. Does he belong to a circus and perform tricks? No, but that's an entirely different definition of which I am not debating. Does he look like a clown? There is no absolute answer for it's solely an opinionated issue.

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FFXI (Siren server)
Tauu the Windurstian Tarutaru!
White Mage & Paladin

Kefka is a truly unique character. Part 17th century Italian/French nobleman, part Court Jester. Ambitious, insane, and ruthless.

I'd like to say that there is something very Marquis de Sade'ish about him.

Sadistic, hedonistic,egocentric.

First of all, is the word "clown" a direct translation from the japanese text of the game, or was it toned down in its translation in order to not be vulgar?

I have a hard time believing that the original, japanese script used "clown" at that point in the game.

Second of all, the soldier is using the term more as an insult than a definition of Kefka's character. At least, that is my interpretation. I mean, if someone were to say, "Oh man, that girl is an angel... she never does anything wrong." Does that mean she is actually an angel? Agreed, it does mean she has certain traits of an angel, but look at what it is associating with clowns:

"That clown, Kefka, is on the verge of invading Narshe."

Now, I don't see how being 'on the verge of invading' somewhere is a clownish attribute. I would really like to see the original japanese text for that quote, as I think it probably used a slightly vulgar, more applicable word to the context.


And, on HighRoller's comment about Kefka being

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Sadistic, hedonistic,egocentric.

Exactly how I see him!

This post has been edited by Stephen the Third on 27th February 2004 17:59

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Je ne t'aime plus,
Mon amour...

Je ne t'aime plus,
Tous les jours...

In my personal opinion, the reason why Kefka looks and acts the way he does is the outward expression of his obvious insanity. That really goes without saying, but what i mean by this is that I think before his infusion with magic he was the image of what everyone percieves as a soldeir. After his infusion, he goes insane and all of those darker things deep within his mind got knocked loose and turned him into the exact opposite of what he was.

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"Like an Angel from the underworld, or a devil from paradise" Faye Valentine: Cowboy Bebop

Just to add my 2 cents in really quickly, I think that Kefka originally gives off the impression of the foppish nobleman (fitting both sides of the argument). As one gets further into his character as the game progresses, you can realize just how much he plays the part of the two-faced, scheming nobleman. But on the other side I must say that the man may have gone to the Ringling Bros. School of Fashion.

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"I was using a metaphor. Someone shut him up before I do it with a knife."- Black Mage, 8-bit Theatre

"I found out what zombies are weak against......Point Blank Annihilation"- Black Mage, 8-bit Theatre

"You'd be paranoid too, if everyone was out to get you!"

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But on the other side I must say that the man may have gone to the Ringling Bros. School  of Fashion. 

Hey now, don't be so hard on the guy... He tries his hardest. Look how neatly he keeps the plume in his hair angled and how precisely he applies the red markings under his eyes. You say he looks funny, I say he looks ravishing.

In all seriousness, though, I actually really like his getup. Of course, this is probably due to the fact that I see it more as a flamboyant nobility-esque fashion than a clown suit. Am I the only one who actually approves of his taste in fashion?

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Je ne t'aime plus,
Mon amour...

Je ne t'aime plus,
Tous les jours...

I have to agree that I don't think the term "clown" as used in the game itself is meant to define to use Kefka's classification or anything specific about his character. I have an old collection of Archie comics where Reggie and Archie frequently refer to one another as "clowns", leading me to believe that this term was frequently used as a toned down profanity...most likely back before my time. This would seem to make sense for it to be used this way in FFVI, since it was before the FF world brought us Cid and Barret, and their uncharted profanity.

Another reason I don't think Kefka is a clown or a jester is because those are the roles of a flunky, not a person in power or military commander. Everyone in the Empire seems to acknowledge his "importance", and to me, his extravagent attire seems more a way to accentuate his own self importance, and rub his position as one of Gesthal's right hand men in everyone's face...really, he seems to be THE right hand of Gesthal, since even Leo isn't privy to the realy purposes of the Empire. Anyway, that's my take...Kefka's garb definitely has a bit of a "clownish" feel to it, but when I look at it, more than anything I think of the extravagent dress of European nobles back when tights, ruffles, flashy colors, and feathered hats were the big thing. The Japanese have incorporated so many things from their own culture and some others into the FF games, and it wouldn't have surprise me if this was what they were shooting for here.

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You know me, you just wish you didn't...

"Uwee hee hee! Don't tease the octopus, kids!" -Ultros-

"Don't let the smooth taste fool you..."

Hello everyone! This is me 1st post on CoN!
Anyway, here are my afterthoughts on this issue after reading everyone’s comments:-
1-This idea about whether or not Kefka is refined, I think, should be based more upon his mannerisms than of his status. Because he acts in a somewhat loud-mouthed way (“Ahem-there’s SAND in my boots!”) and treats most everyone else like dirt, he is thus unrefined. He is thus in this sense, somewhat coarse, maybe even vulgar to some.
You see, the opposite of an unrefined one might probably be a gentleman- someone who possesses appropriate etiquette, and treats everyone at least decently, like how you are supposed to act in the game when Emperor Gesthal invited you to dinner. To illustrate my point, consider the following reactions of two parties to the following scenario: Kefka and a “gentleman” at a dinner. When the food, say fish, is served, both parties find the food absolutely horrible.
“Gentleman”-(In a very polite and dignified manner) Erm excuse me waiter, but I am allergic to fish (Even though he is not, he says this because he does not want to directly insult the chef’s cooking). Could you perhaps bring me something else, please?
Kefka- (In a very loud and bossy tone) You idiotic nut! This food is absolutely atrocious! I demand to see the chef! Get that incompetent nut here NOW! And while you’re at it, at least bring me something edible to eat! Now go, and don’t be all day about it!!!
2-I don’t think Kefka wears brightly coloured clothes because he is a “clown” I think it is because these clothes bring out his loud-mouthed attitude. It brings out this facet of his character. After all, clothes sometimes define the wearer, don’t they? Possibly also shows that he doesn’t care about being “weird”. I mean, how many people would be seen wearing that nowadays?


Anyway, as to whether or not he’s a clown, I think it’s largely a matter of opinion. I personally don’t think so. He doesn’t seem to fit the type for various reasons as aforementioned by so many others.

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Student of CCS, Grandmaster of Alternative Literature and Musical Passionista at your service!!!

He's Crazy like a clown
He's Insane like a clown
He looks like a clown
He laughs like a clown
He grows wings like an insane evil crazy clown
He triees to dominate the world like... a world dictator
He kills people for fun like Hitler
He draws the light of judgement like a clown.
Conclusion: He...is...a...INSANE CRAZY FOOL!
I voted Other

I've seen clowns do a lot of crazy things before, but sprouting wings has never been one of them. Maybe there's a word for what Kefka is in the FFVI world, and they all know it, and accept him as what he is, and we're just left out of the loop, being stuck with only our real world terminology to try to classify him. They accept Kefka as Kefka, and that's okay, just like it's apparantly okay to have some flashily dressed lunatic follow you around and play the "shadow game", mimicing your every move, without getting his lights punched out (I'm referring to Gogo for those of you who didn't get that ) I really think Kefka is just a Kefka...maybe his horrible style of dress will lead others in his world to refer to others who commit fashion atrocities as "Kefkas" in the future...

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You know me, you just wish you didn't...

"Uwee hee hee! Don't tease the octopus, kids!" -Ultros-

"Don't let the smooth taste fool you..."

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Kefka is a truly unique character. Part 17th century Italian/French nobleman, part Court Jester. Ambitious, insane, and ruthless.

I'd like to say that there is something very Marquis de Sade'ish about him.

Sadistic, hedonistic,egocentric.

I couldn't have put it better myself. So, he's a super-powerful toddler-like (I've always kind of though of him as never being able to mature psychologically past the point of his Magic infusion) egotist. The clown dress makes him seem weaker or foolish... precisely what he wants his enemies to think.

A completely compelling and devious villain.

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"Nothing can beat the music of hundreds of voices screaming in unison!" - Kefka

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The clown dress makes him seem weaker or foolish... precisely what he wants his enemies to think.

Do you really think that he dressed the way he did to trick others into thinking he was foolish? I always thought that his twisted, arrogant personality would have actually found his gaudy, overly colorful clothing appealing. Thus, he dressed himself that way out of his own personal fashion taste.

I don't think he ever attempted to seem weak or foolish, personally. I think that if anyone treated him as a lesser, stupid person he would have flipped his lid. He was always ruthless and always asserted himself as being higher than others (example: the boot shining in the desert). I do admit that he was deceptive, but don't think he ever wanted to make himself look weak or foolish.

This post has been edited by Stephen the Third on 11th March 2004 07:12

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Je ne t'aime plus,
Mon amour...

Je ne t'aime plus,
Tous les jours...

He is gotta be something else. Not Human, not clown, but something. He is very weird. that's all I gotta say

This post has been edited by GamblingCat on 11th March 2004 23:23

I think he went crazy after the magitek infusion and the outfit is just a result...but for a long time i thought he was a she

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There is a time and a place for everything, and I am niether

he may look like a clown, but i think he is not, kefka is a cool bad guy, but i dont think they would put a clown in FFIV