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12 (sans Umaro and Gogo who can't join in the WOB). Use a Flame Shld, Metamorphed from Bomb, for Fire 3.

This post has been edited by Master ZED on 3rd June 2004 22:36

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The Unoriginal White Sheet

-Master ZED

Metamorph can't be used before the WoR...?

This post has been edited by 1stclass on 3rd June 2004 22:40

Magicite and 3-BAR are your friends.

Anyway, if I happen to get it right, I'll leave my question open for someone else to take.

This post has been edited by Master ZED on 3rd June 2004 22:44

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The Unoriginal White Sheet

-Master ZED

The answer is 12. There are a bunch of ways to 'cause' a L3 spell.
Casting Fire or Fire 2 on Right Crane will cause it to cast Fire 3, then you can Reflect it for a more direct expulsion of the spell. Reflect FlameEater's Fire 3. Muddle a Lich. But I like the Metamorph tactic better.

The next question is open to anyone, it seems.

Meh, here's one that won't last long:
Name the 3 Colloseum opponents who you can also encounter in the WoB.

I never quite realized the whole Metamorph in the World of Balance trick. This could lead to Crystal Equipment (ProtoArmor) Ogre Nix (HadesGigas), Trump and Striker (Ninja) and lots of other things (Tintinabars, etc.) Nifty.

You can never Reflect a Fire 3 coming from Flame Eater since it always will target itself (when it has Wall status, that is). Also, Ultros # 3 will counter with level 3 spells when you hit them with that specific element. Lich will use Fire 3 by itself, so Reflecting it would be good enough. Reflect Fire 3 from Nerapa. Sketch a Garm for Ice 3 and a Dark Side for Fire 3. Celes and Terra, needless to say, will learn them when leveled up enough. You can Reflect a Fire 3 from Ifrit as well (yes, the monster you fight).

Sorry, just had to redeem myself from that nasty error I made with that poison question. Back to the question:


There's a Chupon to be fought, yes, but it's a different Chupon then the one of the Blackjack.

There's a Siegfried to be fought as well, but it's a different Siegfried then the one from the Phantom Train (shows, doesn't it?)

And you can encounter Shadow as well. Guess that's it.

This post has been edited by Djibriel on 4th June 2004 09:36

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The Collapse of Heaven and Earth

You got it. Good point that they are different in the colloseum, but I couldn't say that without completely giving it away. They are the same characters nonetheless (well...the WoB siegfried could be an imposter, meh), but since I said "the" three it don't think anyone was confused

Okay, let's see if I can come up with a question that can be answered.

Give me all the things you can do to heal any undead monster/character in-battle. I won't accept Doom and related spells because they don't actually heal (they kill off and bring back the monster with full HP). Note that I said in-battle to avoid Potions and the like being valid answers.

Happy hunting.

And no, Ogopogo, you're not allowed to answer .

This post has been edited by Djibriel on 4th June 2004 09:50

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The Collapse of Heaven and Earth

Let's see.

-Drain spell
-Monster and rage versions of the drain spell (mandrake's raid is the only one I can recall)
-Lifeshaver from various monsters and/or the rage
-Cyan's Empower Tech
-Drainer sword ability, as well all monsters that have this ability innately (bloompires' normal fight command does this I believe, and probably all other monsters with that sprite as well)


I can't seem to think of anything non-drainish that would heal Undead. If something heals normal units then it will damage undead (I am not quite sure about abilities like mantra, lagamorph, pep up, and spiraler, but they are probably holy) while anything that damages normal units would still damage undead since there are no "dark" spells that don't instantly kill. The poison spell, the bio spell, and poison elemental weapons will heal most (and possibly all) undead monsters, although I think this won't count because is an elemental related and not an undead related.

EDIT: Osmose and the soul saber will restore MP; Not sure if one would consider this healing.

This post has been edited by 1stclass on 4th June 2004 11:23

I can't say too much ('twould spoil the fun), but for other posters:

There are quite a lot more.
MP is not considered, we're talking HP here. Regardless, Soul Sabre and Osmose and Empowerer are the only ones healing undead anyway (as far as I know, that is).
There are two things that 1stclass said that are not (completely) true.
Note that I'm looking for things that can be done by party members.

And no, this has nothing to do with the fact that I'm not sure whether or not draining enemy specials invert drain-like damage on the undead. Honest. I *think* it doesn't, but....yeah, this whole "not having access to the game"-thing gets on my nerves.

Edit

To get a few more obvious ones out of the way first, I'd like to say three words that would provide a good hint. Here we go.

Vaporite
Dante
Bloompire

If you have FF3usME, check them out for a hint. If you don't: Get it, and re-try this.

This post has been edited by Djibriel on 4th June 2004 11:40

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The Collapse of Heaven and Earth

Drain/Drainer/Empowerer I just checked all will heal damaged undead monsters and I also checked that Drain/Drainer will "heal" revivified party members. At least, it would heal then if their hp wasn't stuck at zero and it hurts you in the process. I also checked Bloompires, and it turns out their normal attack doesn't work like a drainer hit...so that shoots down my Gau gaining the drainer attribute from the bloompire rage scenario.

This post has been edited by 1stclass on 4th June 2004 12:09

Unlike the FF IV game, there are no special effects coming from normal fight commands from monsters in # VI. Specials, however...



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The Collapse of Heaven and Earth

Quote (Djibriel @ 4th June 2004 04:38)

And no, Ogopogo, you're not allowed to answer .

Dang it, I think I know that one too!

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Food is like magic in my ears. - Djibriel
Ogopogo lives.

Here's a bit of fun trivia that I would like to share.

I would start a new thread on this, but it would likely only be one message long, so please don't classify this as spam. I think everyone would like trying these:

Remember back in the day when I talked abou the brown version of Terra's esper form? Well, when you have Banon in your party and are heading back to Narshe, instead of going directly to Narshe, go to the Chucubo stable near where Figaro Castle was. Have Banon lead the party and ride the Chucubo. When he does the spin to get out of the screen when riding the bird, you will see Terra's brown esper form doing a crazy jumping spin. Then, when you're riding, it looks like a cape is driving! Banons riding sprite wasn't correct so his head doesn't appear.

Secondly.... Ride a in treasure chest! Once South Figaro has been taken over by the Empire, and after you do Sabins scenario, if you head back around to the Veldt and to take the ferry back to South Figaro, one of the crew men will tell you it is dangerous there, and drag a treasure chest onto the boat from behind. You get in, and he brings you to the edge of town to leave "cautiously!"

This post has been edited by SuperManBoy on 4th June 2004 13:10

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"Look at me! I'm a receptionist! G'fa ha ha!" Quote Ultros

ZED beat you there be a single version of his Bug/Glitches guide Thanks for the info, though. Topic Time.

I checked, and as far as MP goes, I was suprised to find that Tincuture, Ether and X-Ether all healed the undead. I wonder about Rippling Runic on an undead monster and use a spell that's vulnerable to Runic, but it's far too much work. Besides, giving a monster the Runic command and letting him use it won't work.

Enemy Specials with the ability to drain HP (Red Dance/Doomsickle, you name them) don't heal undead when used on them. It's only logical they don't, of course, but silly old me needed to check. They don't invert damage on the undead period. Good thing, too, or else Catscratches across the land would do little good.

Anyway, I looked it all up and found the ultimate number of healing moves on the undead to be....(drumroll)...eleven. Happy Hunting, I say again.

This post has been edited by Djibriel on 4th June 2004 20:37

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The Collapse of Heaven and Earth

Been a few days now, how about an answer so we can move on, Djibriel?

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The Unoriginal White Sheet

-Master ZED

Edit

It seems as though even the Rom is lying to us in this case. I apologize for giving the wrong answer in the first place to my own question, so this is the edited post:

Right, here we go. Point to consider is that there are three undead monsters that do not naturally absorb poison-elemental attacks, so you can't just give all poison-elemental spells away. Here's the list.

There are three ways to heal undead targets. First up are curative spells that do not invert damage on the undead:

Pep Up
Lagomorph
The Dried Meat Item
Fight command with the Heal Rod
Tapir (only when the target has the 'Sleep' status)

Second damaging spells that invert damage on the undead:

Edit

Who woulda thunk it? None of these are true. As ZED pointed out, this whole invert damage thing doesn't work properly on offensive magic.

Poison
Bio
Virite
Acid Rain (I was surprised. It's partly poison-elemental, sure, but it never struck me that 'dark')


And finally the drain-related spells as given by 1stClass:

Drain
Raid
Lifeshaver
Empowerer

So that's nine. Anyway, all other healing moves invert damage so they will hurt the undead.

I'm having trouble with the Drainer/Soul Sabre. Logic tells me that weapons don't invert damage on undead, but I seem to recall both damaging the wielder when it strikes an undead creature. I'll edit this when I get confirmation, but unless somebody can tell me the answer, that won't be until Friday.

Harumph. I don't quite understand why ZED didn't answer the question himself (surely he knows the answer), but he didn't so according to the Federal Constitution of Caves of Narshe as elected in 1994, Law Book 2, para. 7-8: 3, the question is now Up For Grabs.

This post has been edited by Djibriel on 9th June 2004 18:34

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The Collapse of Heaven and Earth

Quote (Djibriel @ 7th June 2004 08:16)

Harumph. I don't quite understand why ZED didn't answer the question himself (surely he knows the answer),

I do. I also know you missed one (I don't fault you for it, it's not in the current uploaded version of the Attack guide yet), and that you didn't pay any attention to the Invert damage if Undead patch (I think I need to list that in the guide more clearly as only Seizure, Acid Rain, and Virite are covered, the last two are with Seizure...).

So here's the info:

1. Invert damage if Undead does NOT affect attacks. This is why Seizure doesn't heal the Undead as it should (hint, hint). I don't know why I didn't list this in full in the guide, I made the bugfix patch after all.

2. Tapir can fully heal, both the HP and MP of, a sleeping Undead. This does not include the one you get when Sleep status runs out, but Mog's spell.

But the real reason I didn't answer was because I didn't have a question to ask.

Edit

Hmm... after looking at the Poison status' stats, it seems it too was supposed to heal the undead. With this in mind, Square may have been trying to get the majority of undeads to take damage from the Poison elemental, with Dante, Vaporite, and Bloompire being the only ones who could absorb it due to the Invert damage if Undead property. Clever, but a waste of time since it doesn't work right....

This post has been edited by Master ZED on 7th June 2004 14:43

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The Unoriginal White Sheet

-Master ZED

*GRABS

Name all the characters that provide can Celes with a two-sided coin.

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"That Light has bestowed upon me the greatest black magic!"

Here we go! Invert damage if Undead has a full listing finally. Listed in code tags since this only looks right in Courier and the Font tags don't seem to like me anymore.

Code

Invert damage if Undead only affects healing abilities -

Believe it or not, those Whispers you encounter on the Phantom Train were supposed to
regenerate HP.  It doesn't work however, because of a bug in the Invert damage if Undead
attack property. It will clear the Heal bit, but it will not set it.  As a result, a few
attacks and status don't work correctly.  Here's a list of affected abilities and status:

Attacks: Poison, Bio, Acid Rain, Virite
Status : Poison, Seizure, HP Leak (Phantasm)

The end result is that the vast majority of undeads absorb all Poison-elementals, when
there were supposed to be a few select spells that hurt the Undead (including the status
itself), and that Seizure hurts both the Undead and the living.  Undeads and the Poison
element should have been a little more complicated a matter than it turned out to be.

Edit

Edited above to include Phantasm's HP Leak. That was kind of a surprise.

This post has been edited by Master ZED on 7th June 2004 15:35

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The Unoriginal White Sheet

-Master ZED

I know that if you take Edgar with you then Celes will always get the double-sided coin from him (with or without Sabin around). I'd also imagine that Locke is the the default person to give Celes the coin since he is the only other character Square knows will be there. That leaves the question open to what other characters besides Edgar will be chosen over Locke, and I'll take a stab and say Sabin is the only other one who will also give Celes the coin. So my answer is Edgar, Sabin, Locke.

This post has been edited by 1stclass on 7th June 2004 22:57

Two days are up and noone has gotten it. Ask a question that anyone can answer and noone does, oh well.

The answer is Edgar...who used a two sided-coin to give the choice to Sabin long long ago...

And Celes herself. She will sneak a two-sided coin into the fray if Edgar ain't there.



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"That Light has bestowed upon me the greatest black magic!"

Okay, here is a new trivia question:

What is the fewest number of magicite required to complete the game?

easy , 12 : Ramuh, Ifrit , Shiva, Stray, Siren , Maduin, Kirin, and so on..

Close but no.

Do you mean MAGICITE the item, (like the ones you find in the Cave going to the floating cont. or ESPERS ? ? ? ?

I'm talking about magicite espers, not the items. I originally wanted to say just "espers" but then I was worried that people might have chimed in that Terra should count as 1/2 or something.

This post has been edited by 1stclass on 12th June 2004 01:16

14 espers if you are unculigind odin changing into raiden

I think you only need to get 8.

Bismark, Carbunkl, Ifrit, Maduin, Phantom, Ramuh, Shoat, Unicorn

I seem to remember you can leave Zozo and continue without picking up Ramuh and his friends. You can't get away without taking Shiva, but I'm pretty sure you can leave Ifrit since he doesn't block your path. You'll get the six from the tubes, so that would make seven. You don't have to cross any Espers in the WoR before you get the airship, and with the airship you could hypothetically beat the game without doing anything else.

Thus my guess is seven. I'm not sure though, since it's possible that your fellow Returners won't be there before you pick up at least Ramuh.

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The Collapse of Heaven and Earth