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Q: Gau has entered NightShade Rage, but anytime he tries to Charm the enemy party it misses no matter what, even if Clear status was inflicted beforehand. The enemy in question has no M.Block anyway, and Gau can still inflict physical damage, so something is obviously wrong with this picture. Fill in the details.

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The Unoriginal White Sheet

-Master ZED

Under other circumstance I would've let this question be for others to answer, but I just found a nice question I'd like to get off my chest (and get this....it's NOT Bug/Glitch related!) and therefore I will give the answer:

There can be only one monster Charmed at a time. Hit Rate has nothing to do with it and this rule even is superior to Vanish/Stop/Freeze and anything else that would normally secure a Perfect Hit Rate.

The answer is thus: there is already a monster Charmed.

Interesting side note/observation: Charm creates a bond between the user of Charm and the Charmed. It's already rather common knowledge that killing the caster will rid the affected of its status. If you want to test this: When the same caster tries to use Charm over and over again on the same target, he will only hit the first time and receive a 'miss' message all other times; the target is already Charmed. When you have an alternate caster cast Charm on this target (besides Gau, for instance Gogo), you'll note that the move DOES hit, because it now changes the listed caster.

Now for the fun part:

There CAN in fact be several characters Charmed at the same time. Get this: Gau selects the Nightshade Rage, but is Charmed by a monster (Nightshade) before he starts. He uses Charm against a fellow party member: Presto. Instant multi-Charmed party. Might even want to call it a bug since the game never intended Charm to affect more then a single character at a time. I just tried this in-game.

Because Nightshade also has Charm as an option under its Control Commands, this should also be able to work for monsters. Haven't tested that, though.

This post has been edited by Djibriel on 31st May 2004 17:53

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The Collapse of Heaven and Earth

Nice post... too bad that's not the answer.

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but anytime he tries to Charm the enemy party it misses no matter what

Your answer implies Gau's Charm spell connected with a monster.

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The Unoriginal White Sheet

-Master ZED

Confound it!

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Your answer implies Gau's Charm spell connected with a monster.

I find that a confusing statement. You're saying, if I may be so bold to interpretate, that above is not the case. That opens the possibilities of the enemy party not consisting out of monsters (Gau, Colloseum Shadow) or not connecting at all, in which case Mute before the Rage would be a valid answer (but it's not, since that wouldn't be a technical 'miss').

...(leans back in his chair)...

I'm thinking a specific status ailment that overrules Charm. Berserk? Maybe Love Token gets in the way of whatever Charm temporarily causes?

Interesting side thought (I'm feeling pretty interesting today) I'm pretty sure that Zombie would overrule Charm, but Zombies aren't targettable. But what if you would get funky with the Mimic strategy? Mimic can have Ragnarok target monsters that are not targetable ( I *assume* Ragnarok sets the Death effect and adds the item as a special bonus), so how about this scenario:

Exoray times three. Have Gau Charm one, which then uses DoomPollen on itself. Gogo uses Mimic, and should then cast Charm on the Zombified Exoray? Zombified Exorays still exist, they can still fight for as long other monsters are considered 'alive', and will not hesitate to attack their own monster buddies as well as you for that duration of time.

Well, that was exceedingly useless. I haven't bothered to find out since, quite frankly, I don't even want to go there

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The Collapse of Heaven and Earth

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You're saying, if I may be so bold to interpretate, that above is not the case.

Yep.

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That opens the possibilities of the enemy party not consisting out of monsters (Gau, Colloseum Shadow) or not connecting at all

Unfortunately, yes, I didn't specify monsters but I really should have. There's one hint; the enemies are monsters.

Let's narrow things down a little and see if I can steer you guys in the right direction; assume for the sake of argument that Gau is alone and that the monster party can consist of anyone and anything so long as they have 0 M.Block and vulnerability to Clear. That doesn't mean Gau has to be alone, it's just easier to see the answer if he is ultimately by himself. In the end, he can throw as many Charm spells as he can at the enemy and it will always miss. Mix this post with the original question, and tell me what went wrong here.

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The Unoriginal White Sheet

-Master ZED

We need: Multiple monsters
And also: Vulnerability to Clear

...

I've discovered something startling. Even though I can honestly say I've got an above-average amount of knowledge on the subject, I am very poor at linking several pieces of this information and coming up with answer to trivia questions like this. I probably know all the things needed to come up with this answer, and I will probably slap myself on the forehead when somebody else gets it.

I just don't see it.

Well, at least I learned the answer to "a target under Clear was hit by a magical attack, but Clear wasn't lifted...what happened?", and I learned that Zombie does SO not overrule Charm (that's assuming that Zombie only will use Battle/Fight, and Exoray happily used Virite a few turns after Gau Charmed it and it used DoomPollen on itself).

This post has been edited by Djibriel on 31st May 2004 20:44

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The Collapse of Heaven and Earth

We don't NEED multiple monsters, just one will do. I don't want to give anymore hints as I fear it will be too easy if I slip up and give too big a hand.

Oh, yeah, Zombified monsters continue to use their command scripts, they just randomize targeting between both parties in that state.

This post has been edited by Master ZED on 31st May 2004 22:02

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The Unoriginal White Sheet

-Master ZED

What if the enemy monsters had reflect? Gau uses charm, it bounces to an ally and misses because it doesn't work when you try to charm your own characters. It's just a guess...I don't know if charm is reflectable nor if charm even misses on your own characters.

a) Charm works if you try to Charm your allies. Seeing as how NightShades can Charm you, why would it not?

b) Charm's not reflectable.

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The Unoriginal White Sheet

-Master ZED

This probably isn't it, but I'd like to hear exactly why it isn't it.

Gau Charms an enemy and the connection is made.
A second party member casts Palidor. Gau Jumps merrily along and receives the 'Hide' status. The connection is broken.
Gau comes down and let's assume that he nor the other character kills any stuff dead.
The link was broken but now both initial objects involved are still there. The game gets messed up and one of the two re-assumes the connection while the other one doesn't. If this scenario should work, I bet my money on Gau still having his part of the connection and the monster not.
There's now no actual Charming going on but when Gau tries to use Charm again, it auto-misses due to the fact that the game thinks there IS some Charming going on.

As I said before, this probably isn't it. Just wanted ZED to explain whether or not whatever is set on the caster of Charm is lifted by Jump. Probably not, since status ailments remain too, but worth a quick stab in the dark. Maybe even a nice bug of glitch hidden in this strategy. (Why not? It's elusive, useless and rare enough).

Condescendig on my precious White Cape Chest Bug while ranting about that Black Atma Weapon Bugmumblemumblerantmumble...


This post has been edited by Djibriel on 31st May 2004 23:50

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The Collapse of Heaven and Earth

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Gau Charms an enemy and the connection is made.

That's why. He never hits the monsters with Charm at any time, I clarified this already.

And Jump doesn't clear any status besides "Hide" upon landing.

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The Unoriginal White Sheet

-Master ZED

Greeting from TKT, lurker extraordinaire. Just a wild guess here, but would this have anything to do with the following enemies (I think I got them all), which are listed in the enemies list as "Cannot be controlled."? (I'm assuming "control" and "charm" are the same thing. please excuse my newbishness if they're not):

Brawler
M-Tek Armor
Prometheus

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*steals a karma* Don't ask.

Making a fanfic... whoever can tell me where I'm from first gets a free cameo. PM me if you know it.

Djibriel, I think you are misunderstanding the question. We don't get to decide what the rest of the party does during the battle. The only thing under our control is what battle it is, I think.

This post has been edited by 1stclass on 1st June 2004 03:21

I want to take a stab at it...

First let's get the story straight:
1. The enemy party cosists of monstes,
2. These monsters are vulnerable to Clear-status,
3. Gau uses the Nightshade Rage (the only way for characters to inflict Charm),
4. Every time the Rage picks Charm, it misses.

Charm the attack is magical. Thus, Gau is not Berserked.
Charm is blockable, but the enemy has 0 MBlock.
Clear status would not prevent a magical attack from hitting; it would guarantee a hit.
Charm is not reflectable, so wall-usage is not part of the answer.

Maybe the vulnerablility to clear is just part of the setup.
Only one target can be charmed at a time.
Suppose Gau did Charm at a time when there are no targets (for example, all the Reach Frogs have jumped).
Then, when they return, Gogo mimics Gau, and Charms a monster.
Now, whenever Gau does Charm, it can't hit since Gogo is already Charming a monster.

Hey, it's a stretch.

-----Oooh, wait. It's even easier. Gogo could be the original rager, and then it doesn't require non-targettable enemies.

-----Ok, one more tangent: What if somehow Gau did Nightshade's rage but then was muddled before the action occured. Then, Charm would hit the party, possibly even Gau himself. Now, Gau is Muddled and Charmed, so his future attacks would be doubly redirected, causing them to hit the enemy as expected.
Yes, it's a stretch. Maybe I'm close ?

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Food is like magic in my ears. - Djibriel
Ogopogo lives.

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Charm the attack is magical. Thus, Gau is not Berserked.

He'll use all attacks listed under the Rage he has picked when berserked. There are several commands that are still used, even under Berserk (Jump, MagiTek, etc.), and Rage is one of 'em.

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Charm is blockable, but the enemy has 0 MBlock.

Just a side note: Charm's Hit Rate is poor enough (80) that it can miss against targets with 0 Magic Block. It's not important to the question since Clear would guarantee a hit otherwise, but just for the record.

Anyhow, your first answer can't be it since ZED states that it could be done with a 'Gau only' party. Also, Gau's Charm on the same target that's been affected by Gogo's Charm would hit (see my first post on the subject).

Your second answer, however, can be done. Good luck sitting around for the game to randomly choose NightShade, though. With Gau already being the on the 'good' end of the Charm set at himself, he can't be using Charm at a monster.

I guess that we can thus say that "Charm can only effect a single target in a party at a time" is false, and "Charm can only be SET by a single target (couldn't think of a better word) in a party at a time" is better.

Still don't see why ZED would include the Clear status. He's probably thinking of another answer.




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The Collapse of Heaven and Earth

Gau is wielding the Tempest.
He is attacking a Flan (or any other monster which Negates Air/Wind attacks.
When he casts Charm (Rage Nightshade), the attack gains the Air Element and Flan blocks it (miss).

Quote (Ogopogo @ 1st June 2004 05:03)

-----Ok, one more tangent:  What if somehow Gau did Nightshade's rage but then was muddled before the action occured. Then, Charm would hit the party, possibly even Gau himself.  Now, Gau is Muddled and Charmed, so his future attacks would be doubly redirected, causing them to hit the enemy as expected.
Yes, it's a stretch.  Maybe I'm close ?

Bingo! We have ourselves a winner!

The answer, in short, is that Gau confirms NightShade Rage, someone Muddles him just before he executes it, then he winds up Charming himself.

Explanation; the double redirection from Charm and the now permanent Muddle status (due to NightShade's immunity to Muddle) will cause Gau to attack the enemy with his Rage attacks as normal, but since he's charmed himself, none of his Charm spells will hit any enemies or characters because any one character can only Charm one target at a time. In order to Charm multiple targets, you need multiple casters. With Gau Charming himself, his spells aren't going to hit anyone else until he dies, revives, and retries the Rage. Also, ya might wanna heal him of Muddle before he picks a random Rage since in this scenario it will stay with him through death, thanks again to NightShade's Muddle immunity.

Since you actually nailed this one and not halfway got it like last time Ogopogo, I expect a good query out of you.

Oh, and since you all got hung up on Clear, the only reason I mentioned it was to clarify as much as possible that Charm wasn't going to hit. If you thought that was part of something bigger, you overcomplicated the question.

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The Unoriginal White Sheet

-Master ZED

When the Master tells you to do something, you do it

Here's my tough question:
Suppose that you started the game in the World of Ruin (just hypothetically). Don't worry about how this miracle occured to you, just tell me what is the maximum number of spells that a single character can learn at the end of a single battle, and, just to prove to me that you actually thought this through, tell me the exact setup that allowed you to do this. Remember, no cheating, no hacking.

If you need me to clarify my hypothetical, let me just say that you can go directly to any battle and you don't have to worry about experience that would normally be gained up to that point. I just don't want any LLG'ers to jump down my throat with such comments as "that's not possible in normal gameplay," so I'm telling you, in advance that no, it probably isn't.

P.S. For bonus credit tell me the exact spells that were learned (one of those spells may be one of four different spells, so there is a little possible variation here).

This post has been edited by Ogopogo on 1st June 2004 21:02

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Food is like magic in my ears. - Djibriel
Ogopogo lives.

Celese, starting out on the solitary island at level one, could go to level 6 after beating a black dragon in the desert beside the house. This is the monster with the most exp (780) on the island. She would learn ice and cure (if she survived!).

To arrive at this answer, I first found how much exp you get to beat the dragon. After that, I found what level you would be with 780 exp points. I then found what spells she naturally would have learned by then.

You would not learn any spells with any esper since you get only 3 magic points, and the highest learning rate is cure at x25 with Starlet, which would only bring you to 75 points.



This post has been edited by SuperManBoy on 1st June 2004 21:34

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"Look at me! I'm a receptionist! G'fa ha ha!" Quote Ultros

I see how my question could be a bit confusing. Without totally giving it away, I just want to say:
1) You can have any number of characters at your disposal,
3) You have every item at your disposal,
4) You can go anywhere, meaning you can fight any formation that isn't dummied,
5) You can start at any level you want, as long as it's at least level 3,
6) There is no 2, so don't ask.

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Food is like magic in my ears. - Djibriel
Ogopogo lives.

Aww come one! I answered your question exactly!

Okay everyone, you have a couple of hours until I'm done work and get the question, you're warned!!

This post has been edited by SuperManBoy on 1st June 2004 21:58

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"Look at me! I'm a receptionist! G'fa ha ha!" Quote Ultros

One battle. Bring in anything you want.

The underlying questions are what make this hard:

What battle gives the most experience?

If you got the maximum experience, what is the most levels you could gain from it in order to cover the most natural magic spells learned?

What set of spell-teaching equipment allows the least number of conflicts with spells that the character already knows?

Which esper should be equiped to get the most bang for your buck at this one momentous battle's end?

The only unrealistic thing allowed is that somehow you possibly have gained no experience yet (which is the only reason this isn't possible).


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Food is like magic in my ears. - Djibriel
Ogopogo lives.

Are you allowed to fight some battles beforehand to gain magic points? Or is this just a one-shot battle at any predetermined levels?

Quote (1stclass @ 1st June 2004 17:55)

Are you allowed to fight some battles beforehand to gain magic points? Or is this just a one-shot battle at any predetermined levels?

You can fight some battles beforehand. Heck, you can have the spells you want to learn already XX% learned, just as long as you learn them at the end of the battle that I want you to describe (and of course XX is less than 100).

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Food is like magic in my ears. - Djibriel
Ogopogo lives.

Okay. The highest amount of Magic Points per a single a battle is 10. Alexandr comes to mind, since this guy teaches four spells at a rate that equals and/or is higher then x10. That would be a total of four spells: Safe, Shell, Remedy and Dispel.

However, neither Intangir nor Cactrot will give you any Exp.

The highest amount of Exp. you can gain in a single battle would be Tumbleweed x 4, equipped with the Exp. Egg. As luck would have it, RPGLegion is down so I can't check exactly how much this is, or how many levels it would give Terra. Terra is slightly more favorable then Celes in this case, since Terra learns Drain at lvl. 12 and Celes learns Imp at lvl 13.

Aw, bullocks. Anyway, I seem to recall that Tumbleweed x 4 gives you 10400 Exp. That would then become 20800 Exp. Then would lead lvl 1 Terra all the way up to lvl 12 in a single hit. Great, because that would teach Terra Cure, Antdot and Drain. I don't need to explain here that three is less then four. With (I *think*) four Magic Points gained, the only spell she could've learned is Cure trough Espers, and she already knows it.

Concluding: I don't think that either of these is the answer (just my ranting, something I enjoy). So what's up? My guess would be Celes, lvl 3, alone, Exp. Egg, Hoover, Bismarck (Fire, Ice, Bolt). Oh, wait, that's four again (Cure, Antdot, Fire, Bolt). Items don't teach stuff at fast enough rates, so they are a non-factor.


This post has been edited by Djibriel on 2nd June 2004 13:20

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The Collapse of Heaven and Earth

You are on the right track as far as the logic goes, but not quite there yet. Hint: Tumbleweed x 4 is not the most experience you can gain per battle.

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Food is like magic in my ears. - Djibriel
Ogopogo lives.

Are you absolutely sure about that? If you are thinking about the two Tyrannosaurs, then I can say that they give less. I have always been under the impression that Tumbleweeds were the secret treasures of Exp.

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The Collapse of Heaven and Earth

No, two Tyrannosaurs gives more. One Tyrannosaur gives 8800 exp.

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Food is like magic in my ears. - Djibriel
Ogopogo lives.

You're correct. I would've checked with the Editor otherwise, but I couldn't and Terii was off-line for the moment. It's back up, and Tumbleweed gives you 2554 Exp. So a party of four would give more then one Tyrannosaur, but not more then two. Got it.

Okay, 8800 x 2 = 17600
17600 x 2 (Exp. Egg) = 35200

Okay, we're now up to Level 14. Celes can now learn Imp where she couldn't before, but she's got to deal with Ice where Terra has Fire, so there's no improvement there. The thing is thus: Tyrannosaur gives more MP then Tumbleweed. Quite frankly: I don't know how much that is. If it's more then 7, then equip Starlet for Cure 2, Regen and Remedy while also learning Cure, Antdot and Imp.

If not: then all is lost.

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The Collapse of Heaven and Earth

One other detail you seem to have missed: You are never below level 3. The only "unrealistic" part of my question is that I require you to be at a place (to trigger the correct battle) that you could not be at without some forced level ups. That in itself is a huge hint at the solution.

Any who've missed it previously: you can have all items, all espers, start at any experience equal to or above 3rd level, do any other battles and/or preparation needed, and go anywhere, as long as you maximize the spells learned at the end of battle.

If no one gets it in 24 hours from the time of this edit, then I will spill the beans.

This post has been edited by Ogopogo on 2nd June 2004 13:59

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Food is like magic in my ears. - Djibriel
Ogopogo lives.