CoN 20th Anniversary: 1997-2017
Zidane: Wisest FF Hero.

Posted: 21st February 2017 06:11

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Of any of these jokers that've shown up over the years:

user posted image user posted image

Et al, this could go on for a while

Zidane Tribal is the wisest of the bunch. He says stuff that I agree with a lot.

"The sly eagle hides his claws." "The sly eagle doesn't kill at whim."

Interesting stuff. I've never heard a FF character say so much stuff that was actually pretty useful life advice. I believe Zidane also said something to the effect of "You don't need a reason to help people." It is the quotation that appears in his portrait...that's right, Final Fantasy 9 has an attract mode...strange isn't it? FF7 and 8 both simply have credits with stills. (*ahem an attract mode is where the screen on old arcade games flashes 'INSERT COIN' over and over or somesuch while the computer plays badly, but it can also simply be a cycle of images intended to attract attention /historylesson*)

Anything you can think of that Zidane said, that has stuck with you?

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Posted: 21st February 2017 10:47

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Responding here for the purpose of saying something positive for once.

Zidane's awesome, man. He's a breath of fresh air after the last two moody protags.

I like his "princess, I shall do my best to kidnap you" line. What a baller.

So I'm maybe halfway through disc 2, and so far game appears to be doing everything better than its predecessors. (please use spoiler tags for spoilers, people)
The pacing is on point, the skill system is simple and effective. It's really pretty. I love the world.
It might be a bit easy thou- nvm nvm

This post has been edited by Blinge Odonata on 21st February 2017 10:49

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Posted: 21st February 2017 13:58

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Quote (Blinge Odonata @ 21st February 2017 05:47)
It might be a bit easy thou-

Thou?

Thou! Thou!

Thou! Thou!

Thou! Thou!

You angry?

Blinge...you angry...me?

Blinge...you angry...me?

happy.gif


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Posted: 21st February 2017 14:00

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I do love Zidane, and the game as a whole (my series #1). I can't say there's a particular quote of his that stands out for me at present, although I have been meaning to replay for a while now.

Tbh, I've always resonated with Vivi more. Probably says a lot about my perspective on life!

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Posted: 21st February 2017 15:23

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Zidane is awesome. I think he's probably the best protagonist in the main series of FF games, and I appreciate that
Possible spoilers: highlight to view
even though he gets his moody moments, they are few and far between
.

"Ooh, soft!" always stood out to me as going too far, though. I could do without that line, even though seeing Garnet's reaction afterwards is great.

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Posted: 21st February 2017 18:22

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I'm sure I've posted elsewhere that 9 didn't have a huge impact on me when I first played it. I was a little late to it, picking it up a year or so after release, and I played it during a time where I was personally struggling in other ways, which I feel probably hampered my enjoyment of it.

I played it again for the new section last year (admittedly, with the trainers of the Steam version, but that's not relevant to this post), and it really was like a breath of fresh air. Nothing that Zidane said really sticks out at me more than anything else, but I will give a vote to the general premise of this thread - the guy is legit. Obviously, wisdom can be reflected as much in action as in word, maybe even more so (but I'm no philosopher). Zidane's actions are handled nobly even in the case where he's not being particularly noble, such as the start of the plot, and they continue as such throughout as mentioned in the OP: he's a constant force for helping the helpless, even when Zidane is pretty helpless himself. It's pretty unique among the FFs I've played, I think; Tidus and Bartz are similar, but Zidane does it better, IMO.

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Posted: 21st February 2017 19:49

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Quote (Neal @ 21st February 2017 15:23)
"Ooh, soft!" always stood out to me as going too far, though.

Yeah, surely he'd wanna say "Ooh, firm! "

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Posted: 21st February 2017 21:08

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Quote (Blinge Odonata @ 21st February 2017 20:49)
Quote (Neal @ 21st February 2017 15:23)
"Ooh, soft!" always stood out to me as going too far, though.

Yeah, surely he'd wanna say "Ooh, firm! "

Horses for courses...some folks like a bit of cushion...

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Posted: 21st February 2017 21:41

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Gonna have to take what Stilzkin said and go one further with it, I think Vivi might be wiser than Zidane, taking the mantle as the wisest in the series.

And in all honesty, Steiner is wiser than Zidane, IMO. He realizes instantly the power that Vivi holds as a mage.

Not to take away from Zidane. He's a decent character but more aloof and street-smart than wise, in my opinion. He "gets" things but often rushes in head-first with reckless abandon. Not very wise, if I may say so myself. He's clever, maybe even enlightened.

But, even Quina is wiser to some extent, lol.

"I do what I want! You have problem!?"

"Why you care about small things?... World only have two things: Things you can eat and things you no can eat."

Wisdom I think, is innate. You either have it or you don't.



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Posted: 22nd February 2017 02:58

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...None of them are the hero DT biggrin.gif

...I'm very sleepy and I worked a lot today on stuff...and stuff

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Posted: 22nd February 2017 03:43

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Quote (Spooniest @ 21st February 2017 21:58)
...None of them are the hero DT biggrin.gif

...I'm very sleepy and I worked a lot today on stuff...and stuff

Oh no, I get what you meant...

As far as main characters in the series, I guess he's up there.

Just pointing out maybe Zidane isn't all that wise, not that it would be a character flaw of his.

Compared to Cecil, Terra, Cloud, Tidus, Lightning, he looks like a sage, though. biggrin.gif

Maybe I'm being a homer here but I always thought Squall was pretty wise. It was part of what I liked about him. I'd wage my bets on him being wiser than Zidane.

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Posted: 23rd February 2017 04:09

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Quote (Dynamic Threads @ 21st February 2017 22:43)
Quote (Spooniest @ 21st February 2017 21:58)
...None of them are the hero DT biggrin.gif

...I'm very sleepy and I worked a lot today on stuff...and stuff

Oh no, I get what you meant...

As far as main characters in the series, I guess he's up there.

Just pointing out maybe Zidane isn't all that wise, not that it would be a character flaw of his.

Compared to Cecil, Terra, Cloud, Tidus, Lightning, he looks like a sage, though. biggrin.gif

Maybe I'm being a homer here but I always thought Squall was pretty wise. It was part of what I liked about him. I'd wage my bets on him being wiser than Zidane.

We are also known as the Ancient and Revered Society...

...Of No Homers

<huh hyuk>

Zidane's ability to tell Steiner off about his plan to bring Garnet back to Alexandria (upon first entry into the Guintas Basin) is a practical demonstration of his wisdom if there ever was one.

This post has been edited by Spooniest on 23rd February 2017 04:10

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Posted: 12th April 2017 00:57

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Dammit Rusty!

that makes me lol to this day.

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Posted: 12th April 2017 02:53

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Quote (TrueBOSS @ 11th April 2017 19:57)
Dammit Rusty!

that makes me lol to this day.

Right after saying that he has to be told to stop giving the wikipedia entry on daggers to Garnet, lol

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Posted: 12th April 2017 05:15
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Can't say enough good things about this guy. Everything about him is almost defiantly positive. It's not just that he's selfless, he's supportive. From old friends, to new, the guy's just constantly out to lift others up and I honestly can't remember another where starting there and breaking it down was the actual arc for the main character. Leastways not in this series. It's not paced the best way admittedly, but when it happens and he's doing that loong hard walk, it was a genuinely impressive and emotionally arresting moment to have all the people he's built up turn around and let him know they're all aware that door swings both ways.

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Posted: 14th April 2017 13:53

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Never been a fan of Zidane myself. I have a strong dislike for flirty/womanizing characters and while Zidane does have positive qualities they aren't enough to outweigh that part of his personality for me.
Vivi and Freya are my favourites from IX.

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Posted: 14th April 2017 21:25

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Quote (ILoveMoombas! @ 14th April 2017 08:53)
Never been a fan of Zidane myself. I have a strong dislike for flirty/womanizing characters and while Zidane does have positive qualities they aren't enough to outweigh that part of his personality for me.
Vivi and Freya are my favourites from IX.

I as well dislike this aspect of the character. It was put in to make the game 'edgy' enough for the older players who'd been onboard with the series since 1 on the NES, near as I can tell...I dunno, either that or Goochy Goochy is a dirty old man, like as not, hehe, not that I have any room to talk. <.< >.> Anyhooo

He is treated both as a paragon of virtue and a whorish character who thinks with his pants, and those two things don't necessarily go together in western culture, but Zen Masters of the highest order in Ancient Japan would frequent brothels without a second thought, even though the moralistic philosophy of their culture was not unlike the moralistic philosophy of western cultures about it.

I don't think brothels have ever had a good reputation, to be honest, and it is what is called the 'oldest profession' by fiction writers...anyway.

Zidane would be a stronger character without the horny teenager attitude yeah. But I guess it does make him a bit more colorful than one of those 'bad plays where the heroes are right, and nobody thinks or expects too much' that Blues Traveler talked about in 'Runaround.'

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Posted: 15th April 2017 02:49
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Now that I think about it, it doesn't even make in-game sense for him to be a horndog. I mean you could argue an excuse that he's behaving that way to feel more human, but it'd be raw fanon.

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Posted: 15th April 2017 22:42

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Quote (ILoveMoombas! @ 14th April 2017 08:53)
Never been a fan of Zidane myself. I have a strong dislike for flirty/womanizing characters and while Zidane does have positive qualities they aren't enough to outweigh that part of his personality for me.
Vivi and Freya are my favourites from IX.

Womanizing? You're out of your mind.

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Posted: 3rd July 2017 10:34

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He's a cheeky chappy, a lovable rogue.
'Whoreish?' PAH. You don't see him actually nailing girls do you? It's not even implied, he's just a dreamer, a romantic etc etc.

I just finished actually. Good lord I hate Grand Cross.
Probably didn't have the best party for lastboss but I like these guys- Z, Garnet, Vivi and Freya.

Great game, but I'm puzzled as to why a contingent of fans hold IX up as the best FF - I think VII wins the ps1 trilogy, there's a certain subjective magic to it that I can't quite put my finger on. And no, I didn't play 7 back in its time nor did I play it first.

I feel like IX's best content was used up in disc 1, especially the world itself.
The back and forth-ing between dwarves, lifa tree and madain was irksome. I burned out here and had to force myself through disc 3.


Garnet seemed to show more character in FMVs than she did through her dialogue or lack thereof which was a damn shame.

Is Zidane Wise? well at the end..
Possible spoilers: highlight to view
Trying to save Kuja is very shortsighted - what's stopping the guy waking up and wreaking havoc all over again? Doesn't seem very wise to me.

Also how the hell did Vivi breed..


This post has been edited by Blinge Odonata on 3rd July 2017 10:35

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Posted: 3rd July 2017 13:13

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Quote (Blinge Odonata @ 3rd July 2017 05:34)

Is Zidane Wise? well at the end..
Possible spoilers: highlight to view
Trying to save Kuja is very shortsighted - what's stopping the guy waking up and wreaking havoc all over again? Doesn't seem very wise to me.


Possible spoilers: highlight to view
Kuja's the one who pulled the group out of there after they took down the last boss, and Zidane guessed as much. That's why Zidane acted to save him.


^^Beyond that, I remember Zidane showing enough insight to help all the other characters through their issues on numerous occasions, even including his "age-old ritual with mail friends" moment with Vivi in Madain Sari (spelling? whatevs).

This post has been edited by Galsic on 3rd July 2017 13:47

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Posted: 3rd July 2017 14:03

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Grateful, Magnanimous, yes.
I know he had a reason to do it, but for the reasons I mentioned, it's still unwise.

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Posted: 3rd July 2017 14:29

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Quote (Blinge Odonata @ 3rd July 2017 05:34)
Possible spoilers: highlight to view
Trying to save Kuja is very shortsighted - what's stopping the guy waking up and wreaking havoc all over again? Doesn't seem very wise to me.


Possible spoilers: highlight to view
Except Kuja had already woken up and shown a change of heart? I mean, I could just as easily say that letting someone who genuinely seems to have a new and improved outlook on life die is also shortsighted. **shrugs**


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Posted: 3rd July 2017 17:44

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I knew someone would have to come along and tell me how wrong I am sleep.gif

Possible spoilers: highlight to view
Mass murdering psychopath wants to destroy entire universe after throwing a strop at his own mortality, wakes up later and says 'sorry.'

Alright then, better save him, he DID say sorry! He's definitely entirely trustworthy. It's not like he's ever deceived anyone..
Such wisdom.


This post has been edited by Blinge Odonata on 3rd July 2017 17:49

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Posted: 3rd July 2017 21:51

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Zidane fits in the "meh" category. He's a trope. He's a good example of the "scoundrel with a heart" trope, but that's as far as I'll go. I equate the story of FFIX to getting a firecracker that's big enough to be a tire in your car and finding out it's a sparkler.All of his conflict is external- even when he has to combat himself, it's only due to him being an alien.

The theme from FFIX seems to be "Life isn't fair, so make the best of what you have."

Zidane never has any selfish urges, and only doubts himself when he finds

Possible spoilers: highlight to view
same race as kuja
.

He's a really well done example of a trope, but that's the best he can be.

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Posted: 4th July 2017 06:55

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So your post suggests there must be internal combat for there to be an interesting character - then you wave your hand to dismiss the internal combat the character actually has. Wonderful =D
Zidane is motivated more by a profound philanthropy that forces the roguishness to a backseat, but whatever amirite?

Also why use spoiler tags if you're gonna drop a big one in the opening paragraph my dude.

To your wider point about characters and tropes, I generally arrive at this conclusion: What do you expect from a mainstream videogame of that era tbh. He doesn't seem any more tropey than other FF heroes.

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Posted: 4th July 2017 08:57

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And there you have it, my friend. "No more tropey than any other FF characters.".

Keep in mind, this is from my own experiences. When I first played Final Fantasy II (American, IV Japan), it was the second time I'd played a FF game. By the time Zidane came around, he was Locke Cole without his sense of loss or failure, or Yuffie without her desperation. The same noble rogue trope, only done for the tenth time (counting Tactics).

The internal conflict is actually pretty easy to pull out. It's nearly done toward the end, when Kuja begs for his life, but by then, it's no mystery at all about what would happen.

One way to do it would have been like this:

(I'll give you points on the spoilers thing, but if that's invalidating my point to you, then I guess this doesn't need read)

Vivi learns his big secret, at the Black Mage village. This is very bittersweet for the lonely, child-like mage. Thoughts of what he just learned , combined with the excitement of finding people just like him are making him restless. He paces for a while, eventually finding Zidane idly playing with his daggers.

"You're awake?" Vivi asks, surprised.

Zidane is startled from his thoughts. He sheaths his blades sheepishly. "Yeah. Couldn't sleep."

"Me, neither," Vivi says.

"What's up?" Zidane asks.

Vivi shrugs childishly, and Zidane gestures to have the little black mage sit next to him.

After a few brief seconds, Zidane begins fidgeting with his daggers again. He then turns to Vivi. "Must have been pretty tough, learning about all of that."

Vivi nods, "Yeah. But it's not all bad. I got to learn that there are more people like me. Somehow it makes me feel less lonely."

Zidane's face falls into a slight frown for a second. "Yeah."

After another short pause, which Zidane idly spears an apple with his dagger, and brings it back to himself, then cuts it in half to share it with Vivi.

"Hey, Zidane?" Vivi asks, nodding his thanks as he takes the half an apple.

"Hmm?"

"Do you stay up all night like this a whole lot?"

Zidane gives a half-hearted one-shoulder shrug.

"Eh," he says, biting into the apple.

He then leans forward. "Hey, want to play some Tetra Master?"

Vivi shrugs. "Sure."

"This time, I'll really kick your butt."

The two set up for the card game
End scene.

A minute long scene. Two minutes tops. No whining or crying about his plight, he still comes across as the loveable rogue, and the scenes with Kuja later on would have been way more poignant.


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Posted: 4th July 2017 16:12

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Criticising the way FF hero writing or their depth is the low hanging fruit of game/story critique. No one would bother to argue with you tbh.

Who cares about invalidating points or not, you're asking me to read fanfiction now. It's very nice, but there's another board for that.

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Posted: 4th July 2017 17:02

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*lol* Point taken on the fanfic part. Sorry about that.

The point was this- Zidane is done extremely well as a trope. I've also spent time ripping on the likes of Squall and Tidus for being too whiny. I was just trying to illustrate how easy it was to put a tad more depth into his character.

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"So, are you a fan of the Fett?"

"Nah, I'm more of a Star Wars guy."
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Posted: 4th July 2017 18:00

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Disciplinary Committee Member
Posts: 651

Joined: 23/12/2010

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Member of more than five years. Contributed to the Final Fantasy VI section of CoN. 
Hm. well, I have to agree there - with most of the characters in f9 I felt something was missing - but that's an issue with almost every game in the series

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www.youtube.com/blinje
The victor sacrificed the vanquished to the heavens
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