CoN 20th Anniversary: 1997-2017
I went back AND replayed FF7 not too long ago...

Posted: 18th July 2015 05:19

Posts: 251

Joined: 26/5/2015

Celebrated the CoN 20th Anniversary at the forums. 
Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 17th July 2015 08:58)

I didn't pay much attention to the homoeroticism in ff7.I don't know if it has any meaning on cloud strife being possibly bisexual, which would Make ff7 the first jrpg to include other sexualities other than straight pairs.Its like you can bring Barrett on a date in ff7, but didn't think much of it, unless secretly cloud strife is in the closet and has the hots for sephiroth, which would be weird, and make no sense.

It's not even the fact that he's a liar and a coward that makes him unlikeable to me.To me its his personality, the story surrounding him, and sephiroths personality and story surrounding him.Earlier and later games had no problem giving me a reason to like them, but in ff7, I only truly liked Barrett, cid and tifa.Barret was very human, and I can understand him more now that I am older and old enough to have a kid who is Marlene's age.I Even sympathize with cid, because I can understand giving up on your dreams sacrificing it for the good of others, which is a noble thing.I can understand also why he is bitter.

Cloud strife? I can't relate to him.He seems cold and unfeeling to me.Even towards tifa, he seems kind of cold and uncaring.I also think his development is worse than tifa and Barrett's.

Well, it seems like people confuse homo-eroticism with homosexuality. I'm not suggesting Cloud is gay, nor am I suggesting he is bisexual. He doesn't have the hots for Sephiroth and his date with Barret is hilarious, if you have ever gotten it.

From Wikipedia:

Homoeroticism is sexual attraction between members of the same sex, either male–male or female–female. The concept differs from the concept of homosexuality: it refers specifically to the desire itself, which can be temporary, whereas "homosexuality" implies a more permanent state of identity or sexual orientation. It is a much older concept than the 19th century idea of homosexuality, and is depicted or manifested throughout the history of the visual arts and literature.

Specifically the bolded part. Homoeroticism is a temporary attraction to the same sex. It doesn't mean you are gay, per se, even if you engage in phisical activities with the same sex. Nor does it mean you are bisexual. For example, I've been told a lot of women actually do experiment with the same sex at some point, either as a teenager or a young adult. It doesn't make them gay or bisexual. It's perfectly natural to want to try it at some point.

But your points about Cloud, and Spehiroth, Tifa and Barret are spot on.

Cloud treats his comrades like dirt most of the game, often displaying sudden and dynamic changes in his character that come out of nowhere and then fade again. He is a confused character who doesn't undergo the dramatic changes that almost all the other main characters in the series do. He is, perhaps, one of the more under-developed protagonists, along with Zidane.

But Barret was such a likeable character, and I really appreciate the fact that he was black because he was the first main character in the series that was not white. Of course there are always going to be issues of racism once a black character is introduced, specifically Barret's speech being depicted as broken engrish, somewhat, but I think that isn't intentional or even unintentional racism because people would have complained just as much if he were a dapper, well-spoken black man.

From Wikipedia (edited by myself for posting):

RPGamer's content manager Shawn Bruckner argues that claims of Barret's presentation being racist was oversimplification of the character's portrayal, and stated that while he was in some aspects a stereotype, in others, such as his compassion towards his daughter or guilt regarding his past actions, he was not. He added that Barret "shows us that a black man speaking in 'ebonics' is not something to fear," and that his portrayal was not racist, but instead the opposite.

I agree with this notion. It is also mentioned that a cultural gap between Japan and America, poor translation and an attempt to make Barret more appealing to Americans by likening him to Mr. T (I honestly never picked up on this comparison but I digress) in his wikipedia page.

Tifa was harder for me to like. Her intentions sometimes weren't clear at all, she went along with Cloud's charade, she was...rather voluptuous (stereotypical depiction of a busty woman) and really wasn't as strong a character as some people perceive, IMO. I think she was developed fine enough but I just wanted so much more out of her character and never got it.

Cid is another story. He is a misogynist, plain and simple and he terrorizes his "implied" girlfriend, Shera. He emotionally abuses her and it is even implied that he beats her. His failed dreams are no excuse for his character and I found him to be almost intolerable as a character. He is disgusting and his "forgiveness" of Shera later on doesn't redeem him at all. I think there is some place in games for a character like him, but under no circumstances is he redeemable in my opinion.

Post #209368
Posted: 18th July 2015 07:58

Posts: 1,514

Joined: 19/6/2009

Celebrated the CoN 20th Anniversary at the forums. Member of more than five years. 
I don't remember cid being a womanizer, but I remember before the mistake shear made, he wasn't as angry towards her.

also:True story time:I have a black Samoan friend and after not having seen him or remembered. Hun, I was pretty scared.Some of the stereotypes were ingrained in me, like:

Black people steal
Black people sell drugs
Black people also murder

After I met him, decided he was a nice guy.Point is:Part of what spawns racism, is fear.

Once you know someone, part of that fear goes away.I also agree I don't think Ebonics as racist, since some black folks do talk in Ebonics but it depends on where they are from.

A black person from New Jersey isn't going to have the same accent As someone from the Mississippi.

And to get to the point:Barret had real feelings for Marlene, and really cared about her.I felt he was trying to make the world better for her.

The reason I like Tifa, is because in her flashback, we see what she is.She loves cloud strife for some reason, and for some reason, cloud rejects her.I personally would have gone for Tifa over aeris, who I think Is overrated.Tifa has a longer backstory, and we see who she was.She isn't just some busy bimbo, but a girl who is sweet and also tough.Sure she has a nice rack, but that isn't the only thing I am interested in, because that would have made me shallow.

This post has been edited by Magitek_slayer on 18th July 2015 14:42

We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.
Post #209369
Posted: 18th July 2015 21:17
Posts: 4

Joined: 11/7/2015

Quote (Dynamic Threads @ 16th July 2015 21:35)
Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 16th July 2015 10:54)
Quote (haithuong313 @ 16th July 2015 07:32)
To me, cloud is a poser, a loser and a liar.

A liar? I remember he is a loser but did he lie? I remember he was having some memories loss after being exposed to mako... So he believed himself to be a soldier.

Oh yeah, but Tifa was a liar. She kept that secret to herself from the beginning.

He lied about it by saying to the team he was first class, and tifa said:Just like Zach.

He lied to himself so much as to not disappoint, that he actually beloved he was first class, when he wasn't, and that is why he is nothing more than a fraud.

You raise a great point. People are so quick to victimize Cloud without considering any other possibility for his personality complex.

He clearly lied himself into a state of denial/delusion. This happens all the time in real life.

Unfortunately, in film/videogames and in real life, delusional, narcissistic people are often worshiped. Not only that but they are imitated and no one notices, or at least if they do notice, they don't call out on it.

I still don't think Cloud was lying, he was just trying to fill some big gaps in his memory with things that he can remember (Zack's identity). Later in the game when Sephiroth gave Cloud the true vision of Nibelheim on fire, Cloud was actually convinced by him quickly (that he is not a soldier, just a puppet). If Cloud intended to lied to himself, he must have ignored Sephiroth completely. But Cloud didn't believe himself either. On the other hand, it was Cloud's crappy memories which made the game more mysterious and I like it.

Quote (Dynamic Threads @ 16th July 2015 21:35)

Possible spoilers: highlight to view
Unlike most of the Final Fantasy games, where the final battle is the main character and his or her comrades facing off against the boss in a final, epic battle, Final Fantasy 7 differs. You face off in what you think is a final, epic battle and then after a brief cut-scene, you face off 1v1, Cloud vs. Sephiroth. A SHIRTLESS SEPHIROTH. It's as if the game says you know what? Screw your comrades, screw Gaia, this is all about Cloud and Sephiroth. And Sephiroth is super muscular and shirtless and smiling at you as you fly through space smiling back.

I mean, come on. Convincing yourself you are another man who has a stronger conviction, better morals and more ethics than you, a massage (and possibly more) from another man in a clearly homo-sexual spa, cross-dressing, a date with a man and a half-naked confrontation?

Too funny. And it is funny. But for anyone to deny what I've pointed out about a beloved main character, in a universally loved game, is serious denial.

Yeah, actually I'm still trying deny it... Even in the Kingdom Heart series this "couple" still play that love game...

But it's another story in FF7, man. Sephiroth killed Aerith. Yeah so screw your comrades, screw Gaia, Cloud got to avenge his babe's death.

This post has been edited by haithuong313 on 18th July 2015 21:19
Post #209376
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