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Hojo irredemably evil?

Posted: 17th July 2015 18:48

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Quote (Ker @ 17th July 2015 18:23)
Quote (Dragoon Lance @ 14th July 2015 00:21)
I'd put Hojo on the same level as Sephiroth, maybe even more sinister than him, only because Hojo wanted to intentionally create monsters, even to the extent of sacrificing Lucrecia to Jenova.

Actually. He didn't "sacrifice" his wife, they both consensually chose to have Sephiroth. On top of that, he didn't know any better than anyone else involved that it was Jenova and not an Ancient, as has been said at least once in this topic...

Actually:Hojo knew what he was doing.He knew it was cells of something, and decided to do it anyways, because it suited him.

Lucretia I am not so sure why she involved herself.Maybe she was obsessed with having the perfect child, and a kid who surpasses everyone, with w bit of scientific curiosity.She doesn't seem evil though.

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.
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Posted: 18th July 2015 21:06

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Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 17th July 2015 11:48)
Quote (Ker @ 17th July 2015 18:23)
Quote (Dragoon Lance @ 14th July 2015 00:21)
I'd put Hojo on the same level as Sephiroth, maybe even more sinister than him, only because Hojo wanted to intentionally create monsters, even to the extent of sacrificing Lucrecia to Jenova.

Actually. He didn't "sacrifice" his wife, they both consensually chose to have Sephiroth. On top of that, he didn't know any better than anyone else involved that it was Jenova and not an Ancient, as has been said at least once in this topic...

Actually:Hojo knew what he was doing.He knew it was cells of something, and decided to do it anyways, because it suited him.

Lucretia I am not so sure why she involved herself.Maybe she was obsessed with having the perfect child, and a kid who surpasses everyone, with w bit of scientific curiosity.She doesn't seem evil though.

"She doesn't seem evil, though."
That doesn't mean she's not. Much as I loathe Dirge of Cerberus, the game reveals that Lucrecia is the one who put Chaos inside of Vincent, not Hojo. She jerks Vincent's heart around on a string, and causes him to think she loves him back, and she doesn't. Does she still look like an innocent angel?
And let me remind you that Lucrecia also knew what she was doing with those cells. She's a scientist, not a damsel in distress. Might I also remind you that there is no possible way that Hojo knew it wasn't an Ancient? It suited everyone's purpose to make Sephiroth. Hell, what did Hojo really even gain from it, compared to ShinRa?

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"I'll be judge, I'll be jury," said cunning old Fury:
"I'll try the whole cause, and condemn you to death.
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Posted: 18th July 2015 21:25

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Hojo and lucrcia did agree to the experiment but hojo was still willing to do such a terrible tjing not only to his wife but also he's unborn child that requires real evil

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The people I've met and the places I've been all have made me the man I so proudly am.-Scott Mescudi
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Posted: 19th July 2015 02:16

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Quote (MattMescudi @ 18th July 2015 14:25)
Hojo and lucrcia did agree to the experiment but hojo was still willing to do such a terrible tjing not only to his wife but also he's unborn child that requires real evil

As was Lucrecia. She was completely willing to endanger herself and unborn child for the sake of getting what she wanted. She completely disregards the maternal instinct that she should have, and uses her own child for the sake of science. Do you think it would have been any different if Hojo was a woman and Lucrecia was a man? No. It wouldn't have, because Hojo endangers himself for science more than once in the course of FFVII.

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"I'll be judge, I'll be jury," said cunning old Fury:
"I'll try the whole cause, and condemn you to death.
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Posted: 19th July 2015 08:09

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Quote (Ker @ 19th July 2015 02:16)
Quote (MattMescudi @ 18th July 2015 14:25)
Hojo and lucrcia did agree to the experiment but hojo was still willing to do such a terrible tjing not only to his wife but also he's unborn child that requires real evil

As was Lucrecia. She was completely willing to endanger herself and unborn child for the sake of getting what she wanted. She completely disregards the maternal instinct that she should have, and uses her own child for the sake of science. Do you think it would have been any different if Hojo was a woman and Lucrecia was a man? No. It wouldn't have, because Hojo endangers himself for science more than once in the course of FFVII.

In the video I saw of doc,it looked like Lucretia was trying to save Vincent.Maybe I'm wrong, but that is what it looks like.On the other hand, Lucretia knew full well about the dangers of experimenting on herself and agreed to do it while pregnant with sephiroth.The fact she knew about the whole thing and agreed to do it raises alarm bells in my head, and this is why I wonder if maybe she was obsessed with the perfect child.Some people would love the perfect child who excels at sports and science, and I guarantee that if the tech were available Irl, some folks would be trying to get a kid free of disabilities, extra smarts, better limbs, smarter, stronger, etc etc.

Maybe it had something to do with why Lucretia agreed, or maybe she just agreed for the sake of science, or both, making her kind of amoral.

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.
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Posted: 19th July 2015 15:37

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Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 19th July 2015 01:09)
Quote (Ker @ 19th July 2015 02:16)
Quote (MattMescudi @ 18th July 2015 14:25)
Hojo and lucrcia did agree to the experiment but hojo was still willing to do such a terrible tjing not only to his wife but also he's unborn child that requires real evil

As was Lucrecia. She was completely willing to endanger herself and unborn child for the sake of getting what she wanted. She completely disregards the maternal instinct that she should have, and uses her own child for the sake of science. Do you think it would have been any different if Hojo was a woman and Lucrecia was a man? No. It wouldn't have, because Hojo endangers himself for science more than once in the course of FFVII.

In the video I saw of doc,it looked like Lucretia was trying to save Vincent.Maybe I'm wrong, but that is what it looks like.On the other hand, Lucretia knew full well about the dangers of experimenting on herself and agreed to do it while pregnant with sephiroth.The fact she knew about the whole thing and agreed to do it raises alarm bells in my head, and this is why I wonder if maybe she was obsessed with the perfect child.Some people would love the perfect child who excels at sports and science, and I guarantee that if the tech were available Irl, some folks would be trying to get a kid free of disabilities, extra smarts, better limbs, smarter, stronger, etc etc.

Maybe it had something to do with why Lucretia agreed, or maybe she just agreed for the sake of science, or both, making her kind of amoral.

Yes, she saved Vincent, but in doing so furthered her thesis. That was her true reason.
Lucrecia being obsessed with the perfect child would make sense, except that they were supposed to be putting an Ancient inside Sephiroth, which wouldn't make him any better of a specimen. Jenova, however, does.
So, in my opinion, she is fairly amoral; she just covers it up better than Hojo does... And that would make her scary if she didn't put herself in a crystal.

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"I'll be judge, I'll be jury," said cunning old Fury:
"I'll try the whole cause, and condemn you to death.
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Posted: 22nd July 2015 06:51

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Are Lucretia's motives ever explained in dirge of Cerberus?

I wonder, because she looks like she regrets what she did.

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.
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Posted: 22nd July 2015 18:38

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Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 21st July 2015 23:51)
Are Lucretia's motives ever explained in dirge of Cerberus?

I wonder, because she looks like she regrets what she did.

Now let me say this first. Dirge of Cerberus is utter trash. Its plot is written so poorly, that a middle schooler could have written better. It demonizes Hojo in a way that makes absolutely NO sense. But it does show how Lucrecia plays with Vincent's heart. It also implies her motives, but it's never clearly explained that I remember.

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"I'll be judge, I'll be jury," said cunning old Fury:
"I'll try the whole cause, and condemn you to death.
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