Track this topic | Email this topic | Print this topic

I've been watching the latest Doctor Who series with David Tennant and I'm just mezmorised by it's plot. It's more than worthy of a Final Fantasy plot. Anyone who's been watching it will agree with me that it's just amazing.

What do you think of it?




This post has been edited by Silver 09 on 8th July 2006 20:38

Yeah I've been watching Doctor Who and have just seen the last epsode - very sad.

--------------------

"There is no good, there is no bad. Just perspective and opinion." -Squall

I mostly enjoy Doctor Who, and the last episode in particular has been superb. But sometimes it just seems to lose the plot - the Slitheen episodes last year seemed rather silly even for a children's programme, and most episodes between 5 and about 10 this year were a bit ropey I think.

I think I prefer David Tennant over Christopher Ecclestone a little - they've both done an excellent job but I think Tennant is better suited to the comic, excitable Doctor that's been written for the new series, while still managing to lend enough weight to dramatic scenes.

Favourite episode this year was probably The Girl in the Fireplace.

Aliens of London, World War Three, Love & Monsters, Fear Her.

What do they have in common? They were crap.

Dalek, Bad Wolf, Parting of the Ways, Rise of the Cybermen/Age of Steel, Army of Ghosts/Doomsday. All were awesome.

Now then: A Dalek versus Sephiroth. Who wins? Here's a clue, it's not got a sword. EX-TER-MIN-ATE!

--------------------

"Only the dead have seen the end of their quotes being misattributed to Plato."
-George Santayana

"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here..."
-Abraham Lincoln, prior to the discovery of Irony.

So this is the thread where we talk about Doctor Who.

Some like Davies and hate Moffat, some like the Moff and have not watched Davies. Personally I say both writers are great, which makes me somewhat unique, at least among intellectuals, but who cares? My favorite companion from the new series was Martha, easy; a close second would be Rory; then Mickey, then Clara: which sort of illustrates how I like the two writers equally. Most people seem to like Rose, but I found her a bit impulsive. I liked her a lot, but intellectuals like Martha are cooler, in my opinion. Amy is clinging for dear life to the bottom of my list, yelling at the Doctor for not having rescued her already.

So what about you all? Did you like Moffat or Davies? Or perhaps you like Classic Who? You can talk about that too. This topic is very general, so feel free if you have any random thing to say about the shows.

Edit

Whoa, did my topic just get melded with someone's?

This post has been edited by RavenLalonde on 12th January 2014 00:45

"Donna Noble has left the Library. Donna Noble has been saved."

I say it more often than you would think. Yeah, I'm a fan, but I don't have a favorite writer. I'm a Donna fan as is evidenced above. Gingers unite! I'm a second generation fan, my parents having watched it from their younger days as well. I have a fondness for the 5th doctor and am greatly looking forward to the 12th.


--------------------

I'm your Mama Terra, come hang out with me around the internet!

Retro gaming cosplayer with a focus on Terra Branford.

I'm a fan.

If second generation refers to #9 onwards (I'm hoping for the sake of sanity that we're going to be able to keep using the same numbering after the potential revelations of the 50th special), then I would have to say that I'm a second generation fan too. I have an awareness of the first generation, but no more than a Cliff notes equivalent.

Regarding favourite writers, that's not really an angle I've ever considered it from before. I have favourite episodes, and I definitely prefer Dr #10 - partly because I love Tennant, and partly because #10 has proven to be the darkest Dr - but I don't know if that means I prefer Davies' writing.

As for companions, for me it has to be Clara. I'd marry her in a heartbeat. Rory comes a close second, because he's awesome.

--------------------

We apologise for the inconvenience

In my opinion, the Moff wrights more scary episodes than davies. Saying that, the waters of mars FREAKED me out. But come on, The moff did the Weeping angels and "Blink" was a "hide behind the sofa and try not to scream".

--------------------

Excuse me? Would you mind not talking while I'm interupting?

Moffat does write scarier episodes than Davies, but it is up for debate whether they were better. Another thing about the Moff is that, for seasons 5 and 6 at least, there was not really "a whole lot of running to do". It was just sort of "a whole lot of figuring how not to get disintegrated by invisible and/or intangible monsters". Now with the introduction of Clara, the theme of the show has changed a lot; which is how it should be, as that is the purpose of changing the companion: so now there is more running and fewer horror elements. I really like Clara, actually. She is more cheerful than any of the other companions I have seen so far. It is nice change.

Yes, there was alot more running about with Davies's episodes. I also like Clara. She seems to be alot more intellegent than other companions, and is prettier than the others. And also, now we now Peter capaldi (i dont know how to spell it) will be the 12th doctor. I think this will change the Moff's writing, espicially scince Peter is older than Matt smith and this might afect River and the doctor's relationship. But i might be wrong.

--------------------

Excuse me? Would you mind not talking while I'm interupting?

Quote (HolyCeles @ 4th November 2013 14:56)

[Clara] seems to be a lot more intellegent than other companions, and is prettier than the others.

I think Martha is probably the smartest, although most people do seem to agree that either Martha or Clara is the prettiest (I guess it depends on your "type"). Amy and Rose were quite pretty too, but their makeup was a bit off so that detracts from their looks.

Quote (HolyCeles @ 4th November 2013 14:56)

And also, now we know Peter Capaldi (I dont know how to spell it) will be the 12th doctor. I think this will change the Moff's writing, espicially scince Peter is older than Matt smith and this might afect River and the Doctor's relationship. But i might be wrong.

I do not think that it will affect River, personally. I really do not think River could care less about the Doctor's apparent age; and besides, I think the River Song story arc is pretty much over. All of the questions have been answered (except the first question; but that concerns the Doctor, not River): and so all that is left is that one last date where he tells her his name; which will likely be off-screen, or otherwise not directly witnessed. I do think, however, that it will affect Clara greatly. It makes me laugh to think of it.

Quote (RavenLalonde @ 5th November 2013 00:46)

I do not think that it will affect River, personally. I really do not think River could care less about the Doctor's apparent age; and besides, I think the River Song story arc is pretty much over. All of the questions have been answered (except the first question; but that concerns the Doctor, not River): and so all that is left is that one last date where he tells her his name; which will likely be off-screen, or otherwise not directly witnessed. I do think, however, that it will affect Clara greatly. It makes me laugh to think of it.

I don't think it will be over for them, because we still havent had the part where the Doctor turns up at river's house and gives her a Sonic screwdriver. And i don't think it will affect Clara that much, because she knows about the Doctor changing his face, where as rose didn't.

--------------------

Excuse me? Would you mind not talking while I'm interupting?

You know, I really expected this to get more noise after the 50th.

I know right? The 50th was epic!

--------------------

Excuse me? Would you mind not talking while I'm interupting?

Quote (HolyCeles @ 13th December 2013 13:57)

I know right? The 50th was epic!

And would you mind telling us all why you think it was epic?

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

I really loved that scene where 10 was just tearing 11's face off for forgetting, or pretending to forget, the exact number of Gallifreyan children. It is not technically important information, but it disgusted the Doctor that his future self could forget it, because it represented so much. It was really in character for the Tenth Doctor.

When 10 and 11 are in the black achive and are doing exactly the same thing, rhat made me laugh.

There were so many good things, the list is endless!


--------------------

Excuse me? Would you mind not talking while I'm interupting?

Watching the xmas episode again yesterday, i really can't see the chemistry between Peter Capaldi and Clara

--------------------

Excuse me? Would you mind not talking while I'm interupting?

To be fair, they're only on screen together for a few seconds. We don't even really have a taste of what Capaldi will be like in the role (and I, for one, am still wondering if there will be any acknowledgement of his role as Frobisher in Children of Earth).

I just think, that with Capaldi being older than Matt smith, i ccant see what was thier with them two, or with amy. And river song won't be coming back. Don't get me wrong river is great, but River was a eleventh doctor thing.

--------------------

Excuse me? Would you mind not talking while I'm interupting?

I guess I can catch up on a few posts here while I have a few down moments.

Quote (HolyCeles)

She seems to be alot more intellegent than other companions, and is prettier than the others.

Maybe to the first, but if so, probably not "a lot." To the second, different strokes, I guess, and JLC is a lovely woman, but to call her prettier than Karen Gillan is just pure objective folly!

Quote (Raven)

You know, I really expected this to get more noise after the 50th.

Yes, if there were a way to force people to post once they have accounts... well, things would be busier in general, wouldn't they?!

I didn't actually watch the special right away because that time naturally ended up being extremely busy for me. However, it was quite grand. I really enjoyed the

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

kind of red herring regarding Rose and how she would fit in to the plot, and I also liked that they didn't go for the crowd-pleaser of rewriting the end of the Amy/Rory arc - as much as I would love there to be more Amy and Rory, having seen the animatic that was never shot that really wraps up that storyline (link), I want nothing to ever touch it again. That ending was beautiful. John Hurt was a great choice to be the War Doctor, a pleasant surprise. The whole thing was a fun, clever Moffat-y way to go, all the way to the presence of Tom Baker as the Curator

.

Quote (HolyCeles)

I just think, that with Capaldi being older than Matt smith, i ccant see what was thier with them two, or with amy.

I think that thinking that the only way to have good chemistry between the two would be to try to be the same as Eleven/Amy or Eleven/Clara is really selling the series short. The Doctor doesn't need to be someone the companion "fancies" (as Clara cops to in the truth field), but if that's what you prefer, there's also no reason to think that Clara or any future companion couldn't fancy a visibly older-looking Doctor in the same way. I'm with Sunnok, drawing a conclusion on the last fifteen seconds of the episode doesn't make sense to me.

I don't really know what else to make of The Time of the Doctor. It was shockingly bittersweet to see

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

Eleven visibly age into an old body.

Eleven had grown on me so much over his arc, and it really didn't dawn on me until it was all over and I was discussing it with Tiddles that Eleven, for all his welcome silliness, was an incredibly mature and dignified Doctor at his heart(s). I'm going to miss him dearly, though I also did Ten when he regenerated.

I'm fairly new to Doctor Who, having consumed all of the Nine/Ten/Eleven arcs (and a smattering of episodes from older Doctors) mostly over the last two years. My wife has watched me get enough into the new generation, though, that even as someone who has next to no interest in any science fiction, science fantasy, or most things British, she's now asked to start watching with me from Nine on. Not sure if I can really get her to bite, but now that I know a lot more about the mythos, I might be able to help her along.

--------------------

"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN? Or perhaps buying a really good looking shirt?

Holy, of course you can't see the dynamic between Capaldi and Coleman that you could with Smith and Coleman.

For a start, as Suunok says, they've only shared a few seconds together so far - nowhere near enough to begin making judgements - and what's more, those seconds were immediately following regeneration. It stands to reason that Clara would be in shock and in no position to be developing chemistry!

Secondly, Capaldi will be a different Doctor. He will have a different personality, and a different outlook. It won't be the same and it never would have been, no matter who the new Doctor was; but that doesn't mean it will be worse. There's unlikely to be any sexual tension in this new dynamic, but take a look back at old Who - there never used to be prior to Nine/Ten.

So, in a nutshell, hold your horses and be patient. You don't have enough to cast judgement just yet, and you've got a good nine months to wait before you will have. If you keep up at this rate, you'll wear yourself out long before then!

And I agree that the River Song arc is probably done and dusted, but it's not right to call her an Eleven thing - we first met her with Ten, and she's repeatedly stated that she's known multiple faces.

EDIT: somehow posted this before R51's post appeared to me. Apologies for the echo.

This post has been edited by Stiltzkin on 3rd January 2014 23:06

--------------------

We apologise for the inconvenience

I don't really care for it. (This is a joke that will make no sense to future readers when my avatar has changed.)

I will echo R51's sentiments that Pond is the best ever and if you are doing science towards any other goal than cloning Gillans for everyone, you are doing it wrong.

Ten had the best outfit, but Eleven is the best Doctor. If you think he's too young or too madcap or too alien or some such nonsense, you're probably missing a lot of what is a very nuanced performance. Smith carries it off so naturally that you don't always point and nod at each bit of acting.

To be fair, he has largely had better scripts to work from than Tennant. If you're one of those anti-Moffat pitchfork wavers, you're living in a dream world; almost every criticism thrown at series 7 in particular centres around the return of some pre-Moffat trope that was probably put in there to pacify all the people who were whining about series 6. So shut up. It's a show that has to appeal to an incredibly broad audience, and it's not something where every episode will ever appeal to everybody. Stop cherry-picking your favourites and citing them as evidence that standards have fallen, because most seasons have as many shrugworthy episodes as praiseworthy ones, and it's only series 5 (and maybe the specials) that might be exceptions.

Give Capaldi a chance, too. There's no denying things will be different, and I will greatly miss the greatest Doctor of all time, but he's a brilliant actor and I'm sure he will put in a fine performance. And apparently there will be an in-universe explanation for all the Capaldis.

I loved that in The Time of the doctor, The Doctor and the silence joined forces to battle alll the enemies. And yes, seeing the doctor get older and older was interesting to see.

So technically The doctor's 1800 years old now, having spent six hundred years (or there about) in the town called christmas.

The weeping angels stilll scare me to death. I new straight away what it was when i saw the stone hand poking out of the snow.

--------------------

Excuse me? Would you mind not talking while I'm interupting?

I feel the quality of the writing has gone downhill and that Clara is at the moment the worst companion since Adric Rose, but I have a sneaking suspicion it's mostly down to executive pressure from up high. Doctor Who has been a massive money-spinner and ratings winner for the BBC, but the backroom meddling and the choice to split the last two series in two have, IMO, contributed heavily to what's been going "wrong". And as Tiddles says, because they've been trying to please fans of the RTD era who have been whining.

IIRC the Fiftieth Anniversary was even hit by BBC meddling amongst the panic in the wake of the Jimmy Saville scandal. I recall amongst the frequent Private Eye articles revealing the departures of producers and the backroom bickering, that they had some restrictions on interviewing and documentary-making put in place that hindered much of the stuff they could have done for the Fiftieth. Having a bit of a crap episode that tried too hard to please everyone didn't help either - The best stuff at the Fiftieth was IMO the An Adventure in Time and Space docudrama and The Five(ish) Doctors. Honestly, I think they could get away with having David Bradley play the First Doctor in canon at some point.

I think another problem is: that Series 5 was perhaps too good a start. We got a Doctor that quickly became awesome, we got not one, but two companions that became awesome. On top of that, they were actually in love with each other rather than the Doctor, chasing away one of the more irritating aspects of the Rose and Martha series (Notice that Series 4 was also pretty good overall? Yep, because Donna wasn't in love with the Doctor). IMO the best Doctor-Companion setups have a platonic connection, where the Doctor, for all his age and experience, needs the Companion to keep him in check: not that the Companion needs the Doctor because OMG WE R SO IN LUV .

The last two specials though were an utter mess. Because the clunky aspects, the bits that ruined it, the bits that botched it from previous series kept coming back. And this habit of repeating an arc word a hundred times a second, hammering it in so we all understand it - and then the solution is either a complete bumpull or some incredibly convoluted mess...

It feels almost like two shows in one. One feels very simple, the other is trying to be as complex as possible. It's like we've got Sarah Jane Adventures and Torchwood crashed into each other and hijacked the main show because they've not got a chance in hell of new episodes any time soon. And I think again that what Tiddles was saying is correct. They're trying to please everyone.

The problem is, in the process they might just wind up annoying everyone instead. We can only hope the Capaldi era learns from some of the mistakes of the last few Series and Specials - and they were there. My concern is that even if the show learns, the sections of the audience that are whining the loudest won't. I fear that the daft fanpersons will whine about an "old" Doctor, I fear that the daft Pseudo-intellectual types will write blog upon blog whining about how they oversimplify things when clearly a much better solution would have been to reference the chemical formula of the Higgs Boson and reference back to the events of the third doctor serial 'The Blob Monsters Of Pluto'.

I fear that even if Clara walks away from coming across as a bit of a Mary-Sue, even if Capaldi nails it and becomes a great Doctor, that too many people won't give it a chance for whatever excuse they choose.

Still, I won't complain if Clara gets the boot soon even if she does stop being so insufferably annoying. First impressions stick and I'm afraid that the way she's been so heavily shoehorned into the lore as being so vital to it all just sticks in my throat and I'd be glad to see the back of her. She's just not that good a character.

This post has been edited by Del S on 4th January 2014 12:04

--------------------

"Only the dead have seen the end of their quotes being misattributed to Plato."
-George Santayana

"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here..."
-Abraham Lincoln, prior to the discovery of Irony.

I'm just going to leave this here in what I hope will come across as a slightly Moffat-esque instance of responding to everybody in as vague and cryptic a manner as possible:

http://www.doctorwhohub.tv/?p=1290

FWIW, I can see the validity of the objections raised against Clara being shoe-horned into lore, but is it really that much different to the way other characters were shoe-horned in? Besides, as perfect as Karen Gillan is, Jenna Louise Coleman wins it for me - but maybe that has something to do with her looking a LOT like an ex of mine.

--------------------

We apologise for the inconvenience

Nope, Stiltzkin, my non-dating brother pretty feels the same way. So do I, for that matter.

Anyway, I think I will ignore Del S for the good of everyone reading this thread, because I get downright uppity about Moffat-hating. So in order to avoid unnecessary flaming, I will just pretend I did not read that.

For my part, I like Clara more and more. I really like romance in storylines, which was probably the only thing I liked about Amy. My favorite thing about Clara is that she is not angsty. All the other characters are angsty. The Doctor has a load of baggage that he could not seal away in the Time War. Rose was so bloody serious all the time and it made her angsty. Martha was cool because she was the intellectual one of the companions, but her crush on the Doctor gave her some angsty moments. Donna was really epically aggressive all the time, but in between the awesomeness she was really sober and angsty. Amy was angsty for just about no reason. Rory's existence was pretty angsty. I liked all the companions, but those angsty moments made the show just a little less fun for me. Clara is always so cheerful and even childlike that it actually has greatly contributed to my own "lightening up" in the past few months, compared to my years of being rather emo (minus the hair and unnecessarily dull clothes). Clara is by far the most playful companion I have seen so far. Overall: I think that, while the show did have some less than epic seasons (read: I hate Amy), I think that right now the show is every bit as good as it ever was; if indeed not better. Clara was just what was needed to brighten up the show a little bit and give that campy corny feel it used to have, and desperately needed.

Quote (RavenLalonde @ 11th January 2014 01:26)

Anyway, I think I will ignore Del S for the good of everyone reading this thread, because I get downright uppity about Moffat-hating. So in order to avoid unnecessary flaming, I will just pretend I did not read that.

How was I hating on Moffat exactly? I'm merely critical of more recent developments - developments likely tied to executive pressures and demands. I was also expressing concern people won't give the new setup a chance for any excuse. I was even taking a shot at people taking it too seriously.

It just seems a bit odd to express a desire to avoid 'unnecessary flaming' when you're not even willing to read the other side of a debate properly or declaring you're not even listening. "Oh, I don't want to bother reading your messages properly/at all!" isn't exactly polite, is it? It's disrespectful to the opinions of others and insulting to them. It's precisely what causes angry replies.



--------------------

"Only the dead have seen the end of their quotes being misattributed to Plato."
-George Santayana

"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here..."
-Abraham Lincoln, prior to the discovery of Irony.

In an attempt to diffuse some tension between people I'm very fond of, I do agree that the show has changed a lot and it's got my head spinning a bit. Because of the two writers being so different, I can't really compare them; they are separate forces entirely. I am not fond of Clara, yes she is bright and cheerful, but she is also somewhat bland. I preferred her behavior as Oswin or the Nanny, she was more forceful and I felt that made the character much more fun.

I've stated before that Donna is my favorite companion, but I'll say it again. She flt more down to earth than the other companions. She had real world problems (her mother being difficult, her issues with finding work, a horrible boyfriend) who hasn't been through these things? I didn't see much of this in the other companions so I found them less interesting. For me Donna was also the most painful to lose. She had grown so much in her time with the Doctor. It really seemed like she had become the person she always wanted to be, she just needed that extra push from the Doctor to get there. Then seeing her lose it all in a single instant was agony. I don't particularly care for romantic interest in the Doctor because I would figure that at his age he'd be pretty tired of fawning lovesick girls (I would be too!) so it felt like she was a bit of fresh air for him. It is the same with Rory; down to earth, focused and not lovestruck by the superhero from the stars. Yes, it's sci-fi television, but a bit of realism is very refreshing from time to time.

I'm actually very excited to see an older man taking up the role of the Doctor in the next series. I like to imagine that it will bring a lot of the classic feel of the Doctor back (I don't have an explanation for that one, it's just there). Also, I have to say it: John Hurt for the win. That was absolutely beautiful. The 50th would not have been anywhere as good as it was without him. The behavior of 10 and 11 really felt like it was an amalgamation of facebook fangirl posts and addictions, thus the over acting and use of catch phrases. By far however the "Oh for God's sake" was my favorite via the War Doctor.

Also:


This post has been edited by St Khael on 11th January 2014 18:41

--------------------

I'm your Mama Terra, come hang out with me around the internet!

Retro gaming cosplayer with a focus on Terra Branford.

Quote (Del S @ 11th January 2014 07:40)

Quote (RavenLalonde @ 11th January 2014 01:26)

Anyway, I think I will ignore Del S for the good of everyone reading this thread, because I get downright uppity about Moffat-hating.  So in order to avoid unnecessary flaming, I will just pretend I did not read that.

How was I hating on Moffat exactly? I'm merely critical of more recent developments - developments likely tied to executive pressures and demands. I was also expressing concern people won't give the new setup a chance for any excuse. I was even taking a shot at people taking it too seriously.

It just seems a bit odd to express a desire to avoid 'unnecessary flaming' when you're not even willing to read the other side of a debate properly or declaring you're not even listening. "Oh, I don't want to bother reading your messages properly/at all!" isn't exactly polite, is it? It's disrespectful to the opinions of others and insulting to them. It's precisely what causes angry replies.

Oh I did not mean that, I just meant that I did not want to rebut your post because I was afraid of sounding too harsh. I did actually read your post, but my older brother's Moffat hating (or rather, Moffat-lover hating) has actually made it a bit of a sore point for me, so I have trouble acting right when people disagree with me about the last few seasons and I was trying to avoid that. Ugh, Raven, learn to use emoticons or something...