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Do you think video games count as a sport? This came up recently between my friends and we all seemed to end up with different answers.

Personally, and nobody agrees with me much, I don't like the esport label because it kind of implies that the sport is within the game, rather than being a sport in itself. For example the esport of Fifa 13 makes me think the sport is still football but the esport is the sport of football through the medium of electricity. A bit misleading if you ask me.

What do you guys think?

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Scepticism, that dry rot of the intellect, had not left one entire idea in his mind.

Me on the Starcraft.

I think that it works mainly for lack of a better term. There's no real analogue to video gaming that I can think of off the top of my head, but to me the notion of something being a "sport" implies that there is at least some level of physical exertion involved. Even the people who would say that, for instance, auto racing is not a sport would have to admit that there's a level of physical conditioning required to do it at a high level, more than simple hand-eye coordination

For me, competitive gaming falls more into a similar vein as competitive board gaming or card gaming. Obviously, a high-level video gamer shares a lot of traits with, say, a competitive poker player: lots of practice, memorization of key strategies, etc. The same could be said for a chess player, or cribbage, or any number of other games, I think.

It's one of those things where, to me, the connotation of the word "sport" is a bit more narrow than the denotation. Sure, all of the things I've described fall under the mantle of the definition of sport, but to me the implied meaning excludes most activities that you can do sitting down.

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No. No they are not.

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Arts

Farts

Twarts

I would say no. Able to create a contest, yes. Requiring skill, coordination and expertise, yes. But to me they fall short of a sport.

I was actually going to use the poker analogy too, and I would also add things like darts and pool to that as well - They're all almost sports, but all still not. That doesn't mean that I would object to video games becoming a professional contest like we see in darts and poker...

As for the 'esports' moniker, I'd say that's just gimmicky. FIFA is just a game. Football is still the sport. To me, for an 'esport' to exist, it would have to be some variation upon the concept of playing sport within a VR simulator - that requires actual physical participation.

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Is Chess technically a sport or not? Video games seem like they should fit into that category.

That said, most people who think video games are a sport are trying to fool themselves into thinking they're not wasting their lives.

Video games are games, not sports. Echoing Stiltzkin's comments, I'd put them in the same category as darts or pool (or chess) - they require a level of skill and strategy, but not athleticism.

But that's not to say that they aren't competitive in nature or entertaining to watch. I mean, EVO moment #37, anybody?

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Quote (Tiddles)

Is Chess technically a sport or not? Video games seem like they should fit into that category.

Yeah apparently it is!

I agree with, well, everyone. I think that games shouldn't be a sport but the thing is, I can't really pinpoint exactly why. And it makes me think that 'esports' is actually the most sensible label, even though it's misleading. I'll explain the problems.

There isn't a good comparator, as we've said. If sports requires athleticism, this implies a level of activity more than what R51 says of just sitting in a chair, which I think is really accurate example, especially because of how similar auto racing is. So if the level of physical exertion has to be above a certain level, this also rules out less intensive sports like archery, golf (the sport does not require walking, because in the pro tours golf carts are an acceptable means of getting around), and fishing. I think the original sport was hunting foxes with dogs on horseback (the dogs weren't on the horses unfortunately). Personally I think they're all sports, because, if anything, they're treated like sports.

Now the question is whether games require physical effort, or activity, comparable to auto racing, archery, golf and fishing, and I'd say yes, partly because video games require hand dexterity and hand/eye coordination like Stiltzkin says, which I think is physical effort. Also to look at it negatively the same injuries that would prevent a driver, golfer, archer or fisherman and a pro gamer from competing are the same. A gamer couldn't compete if his hand was broken. For me that implies there's enough physicality to distinguish video games from poker. On that note...

Poker, and other card games, are predominantly luck-based rather than skill so I agree with the argument that video games are different. The problem is that we don't know what game we're talking about; it could be Age of Empires where there are random spawns and random resources spread across the map, so a lot of the decisive factors in winning is playing the hand you're dealt, as it were. But to stick to my point Lasz's example of Street Fighter IV is obviously not predominantly luck-based, so I would separate the full-time competitive games like SFIV from poker and other games like it.

Having said all that I still think games aren't a sport. And despite the not-brilliant and misleading 'esports' label, I kind of understand why it's appropriate. Logically, for me, there's no reason why video games couldn't be a sport. I'm thinking maybe my reservations are just based on prejudice because it's unorthodox to call a video game a sport. Especially considering that chess is now a recognised sport by the olympic committee. I mean, what?

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Scepticism, that dry rot of the intellect, had not left one entire idea in his mind.

Me on the Starcraft.

Yeah, I have to echo the preceding sentiments: video gaming is certainly gaming, and at the highest levels demands skill and strategy, but I would never call it a sport (except, perhaps, Wii Tennis or something else that demands athleticism; and even then I'd be tempted to dismiss it to some degree as being a bastardized, or dumbed down, version of the REAL thing).

Sweetdude, I agree with most / all of your points, but I need to correct you: that's Street Fighter III: Third Strike, not Street Fighter IV. You're making Galsic FURIOUS right now.

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this is a blog mostly about comics and videogames
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Quote (laszlow @ 12th April 2013 02:49)

Sweetdude, I agree with most / all of your points, but I need to correct you: that's Street Fighter III: Third Strike, not Street Fighter IV.  You're making Galsic FURIOUS right now.

Hah! Oh God. I'll blame it on the sweet 240p resolution I was watching it on, if that'll calm him down? I saw Daigo and thought SFIV, woops!

Edit: Just watched it again and... yeah there really isn't any excuse. LOL.

This post has been edited by sweetdude on 12th April 2013 03:21

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Scepticism, that dry rot of the intellect, had not left one entire idea in his mind.

Me on the Starcraft.

This is a fascinating topic; we always talk about if videogames are art or not, and within the videogame community at least tend to agree that they are, but the question of sport is one I've never heard.

That said, I have to agree with what more or less everyone else has been saying in this thread. There's really no level of physical skill or conditioning involved, which seems to be a prerequisite for 'sport' - this seems to be accepted, as Josh mentioned, even in those activities whose category is debated (like auto racing or dance).

I think most videogames where competition is involved would fall into the same category, again as mentioned, as something like chess, amongst other competitions which test one's strategy and precision: I would argue curling and marksmanship belong in this category as well.

To be fair, though, a lot of videogames don't involved competition like this, and I think that's a fact worth mentioning. We can argue that videogames as a totality are a form of art, because even whatever CoD game is currently big involved a huge array of artistic decisions: music, art style, location creation, rendering of movement / mechanics, etc.

But a major portion of all videogames aren't eligible to even be brought up in this 'sport' discussion in the first place. In Final Fantasy, for instance, we (largely) have no real competition; the strategy involved is much more akin to sitting down with a Mensa book, for instance (though a beginner-level Mensa book in most cases, as Tiddles would be quick to point out). And an increasing - though definite minority - number of videogames don't even go that far; some, like To the Moon, are more or less unfolding stories.

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One point that I do want to bring up, even though it's an absolute nit: at the highest level, poker is as much about skill as luck. There's a reason that you don't hear about many "amateurs" stepping in and winning major tournaments, or even a reason why I myself am so bad at it; the reason is that the skill is in anticipating the likelihood of your own luck versus that of everyone else at the table.

You do raise excellent points about sports like archery, golf, and fishing. Fishing I wouldn't consider much of a sport in most cases, anyway. I think you could make a case for people who fish for the big game, like marlin, I suppose, but not most people. Archery and golf, meanwhile, feature a mental exertion and I think you could also say pretty rigorous physical training in order to hone the fine motor skills they require.

And I guess, maybe, that calls for some shades of grey in terms of games, too. Does it count as sport when you and your buddies get together in a room for trash talk and FIFA? I doubt it. But if you guys are working on the mental acuity and marathon gaming ability that could win you a truly competitive FIFA tournament? Maybe. I could see that point being made pretty convincingly by someone who is not me.

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"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN?

Quote (DP)

But a major portion of all videogames aren't eligible to even be brought up in this 'sport' discussion in the first place. In Final Fantasy, for instance, we (largely) have no real competition; the strategy involved is much more akin to sitting down with a Mensa book, for instance (though a beginner-level Mensa book in most cases, as Tiddles would be quick to point out). And an increasing - though definite minority - number of videogames don't even go that far; some, like To the Moon, are more or less unfolding stories.

That's a good point. I suppose the only answer would be that not all sports have to be directly competitive. So a speed run championship of FFVI would be comparable to archery, and different from a game where you're directly against your opponent like Street Fighter. But then if we're counting games that don't put a lot of emphasis on mechanics like the Walking Dead or Heavy Rain then that comparison's going to be really forced! I suppose it would result in two outcomes: either games can be sports if you want them to, eg speed run championships; or that some games are sports and others aren't. Neither of these are satisfactory.

Quote (R51)

One point that I do want to bring up, even though it's an absolute nit: at the highest level, poker is as much about skill as luck. There's a reason that you don't hear about many "amateurs" stepping in and winning major tournaments, or even a reason why I myself am so bad at it; the reason is that the skill is in anticipating the likelihood of your own luck versus that of everyone else at the table.

I see what you're saying, and I wouldn't disagree if poker was considered a sport, but I still think that even at the highest level the game is mostly luck-based. I'll explain why I think games are different. Aside from mind games and reading your opponent's gestures etc, I see it that the skill involved is how to play odds rather than how to play cards, if that makes sense? It might just be semantic on my part, but for me that distinguishes it from the skill in chess, darts, golf and so on. The mechanics of the game itself are very simple.

This post has been edited by sweetdude on 12th April 2013 18:31

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Scepticism, that dry rot of the intellect, had not left one entire idea in his mind.

Me on the Starcraft.

Quote (laszlow @ 11th April 2013 20:49)

Sweetdude, I agree with most / all of your points, but I need to correct you: that's Street Fighter III: Third Strike, not Street Fighter IV.  You're making Galsic FURIOUS right now.

ROFL, no no, not angry at all ...


(just a little dead inside...)

Anyway, I don't get why anyone would consider video games a sport. I certainly don't need one of my favorite pastimes validated in that manner.

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I'm not sure I consider car racing a sport either, so I'm not really inclined to consider videogames a sport.

That said, they're definitely a competitive activity.

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