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Quotidian, for anyone who doesn't already know, is defined as "Of or occurring every day; daily." I spend a lot of time around this type of literature, so the word is a mainstay for me; I considered using 'ordinary' or 'mundane' in the title, but neither quite gets at the point. I wouldn't want to confuse talking about a game concerning the everyday with talking about a game that's just plain ordinary or a game that's "lacking interest or excitement; dull" (the definition of mundane).

Which titles are included in this category is debatable, of course. Phoenix Wright is a lawyer, but I don't think one would call the presentation of his games quotidian (or maybe you might - I'm not terribly familiar with the series!). To the Moon has something distinctly impossible at the center of its plot - being able to visit / alter peoples' memories - and yet the bulk of the game, living within those memories, strikes me as certainly quotidian.

I guess I don't have a specific question in mind. I was just wondering what people think about games of this style: are they capable of being expressive? can they still be enjoyable to play? what do you consider good examples? I admittedly haven't all that much experience with games of this sort, so I'm curious!

In literature or films, this approach was something that would develop later in the history of the medium but come to represent a significant portion of each medium's output, and certainly a large portion of those books/films/shows considered 'high-culture' or 'artsy.' Do you think this can, or will, or is, or ought to happen in video games as well? Books and movies about 'everyday stuff' frequently sell very well - does a quotidian video game stand a chance at substantial popularity?

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I may not be following you correctly, but a game can have quotidian elements that work very well. Well executed examples are Persona 3 and 4, with the character's school and social life.

As for something that entirely fits the definition though.. i'm not so sure.

What about Second Life?

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www.youtube.com/blinje
The victor sacrificed the vanquished to the heavens

I would say that Papers Please and Cart Life both count as quotidian games, but they're also expressions of the eventual despair of trying to raise a family and keeping morally righteous when stuck in a dead-end job. They're quotidian, but a little bit soul-crushing.

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So we're talking about games that substantially reflect things that don't seem out of the ordinary for real life, as opposed to obviously extraordinary happenings that an average person (or perhaps any person) might experience day to day?

I struggle to think of many truly "pure" examples, but the thing I think of most directly - rightly or wrongly, since I've never played it - is Second Life, as Blinge mentioned, which was indeed very popular once upon a time, and drew a lot of discussion about what exactly it was that made it popular. It seems there are a lot of people who would quite like to just try living another life, even without it having any dragons or monsters or terrorists in it, but I'll wager a big part of the appeal in that case was interacting with other real humans doing the same thing, one way or another - the same thing might not work so well with AI, or if it did, it might well lead to more boundary-pushing antisocial behaviour, safe in the knowledge that nobody cares. There were a few similar games before that too, Habbo Hotel and the like. I suppose the only question is whether you'd truly call them games or "social experiences" or some rubbish.

I suppose some of those weird simulators probably qualify too - lorry and train driving sims and the like. Those fairly obviously only appeal to a very specific niche, but they keep coming, so somebody must be buying them. I doubt anybody who actually does these things for a living actually plays them.

I suppose that's the key... it probably only works if they show you something that's routine to other people, but might be really interesting to you. And if that were the definition, you might start to argue that all kinds of (non-sci-fi) soldier games, racing games, mayor-type games and the like could fit into the category, even though the things they depict would only be routine to a relatively miniscule percentage of the population (and they mostly exaggerate those things even then).

I can think of quite a few games that are partial examples. The Sims obviously deals with fairly everyday goings-on, but gives you fairly supernatural levels of control over them. Shenmue pretty famously allowed you to ignore its plotline and spend all day wandering about town and playing arcade games (games within games being a potentially related phenomenon perhaps worthy of its own discussion). In GTA San Andreas you could probably simulate an everyday existence, even though it wasn't what was "expected": you could take semi-legitimate work (albeit usually by stealing a relevant service vehicle; pizza delivery being the most everyday option most likely), eat, sleep, go to the gym, get a girlfriend, hang out with your homies; Skyrim largely allows the same, and more legally in terms of the game world, but obviously in a totally unrealistic universe. In fact, I remember this guy who used to try to do a "real life game" in FF7, which seems unimaginably dull and no doubt requires quite a bit of imagination, but there are always people who can make nothing out of something!

Interesting topic. Is there something in the water this week?

I think every day (or close to it) games have a time and place in gaming. I'd say Animal Crossing is relatively similar, if not cartoonized; you start the game out in debt, for one, haha.

Depending on how realistic/what you're expected to get out of the game, Quotidian games definitely have a place for the developers ready to make them. They might not get millions of X box Live people playing them at once, but there's something to be said, like Blinge and Tiddles said, the ability to escape into a new life for a few hours. Hell, with all the Sims expansions, (I really hope Sims fits into your category as I PLAY A LOT OF SIMS), there's not only a market, but there's a -fanatic- market who will shell out $40 for the game to now have weather, new clothing options, and festival parties/more date scenes/supernatural creatures/new careers.

I think the best example would be sims games, but tbh what most people like isn't how realistic it is; it's how close to reality, yet not, it is. LIke, most people like how you can control your looks, age, traits, and talents. You can remodel your home in seconds in a way that A, most can't afford, and B, would take months in real life, yet voila! New hot tub, pool, and btw my house is now two stories high. Nice. You age in the sims, but you don't have to. It's a fun escape, where you can totally be a fit, popular, pretty millionare after like 4 hours of gameplay or sooner (motherlode amirite?!).

I think that the hardest part of video games vs books and movies being quotidian is that that's not quite what people turn to video games for; most people like playing for the fact that you can be a warrior with a tiger for a mode of transportation, or a car thief who kills hookers (?idk what you really do in GTA) or hell, a rock star playing a venue or even a chef (Cooking Mama!).

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You're telling me that there's no hope.

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If I understand correctly, you mean to ask: Would a video game that takes place in the real world be enjoyable? I think it can, if it is executed properly. But it would have to have an exciting twist, or it really would be "mundane". The reason this works for movies and books and even TV shows is that there can be a conflict without it necessarily getting crazy and impossible; but in video games, the appeal is in the emulated excitement. It would have to be well planned, keeping it quotidian without making it unexciting. Wow, that was some complex syntax. It would be refreshing at this time to use some poor style and colloquialisms. Anyway just my opinion

Interesting that this topic came up when it did; I just today saw this on Kotaku: http://kotaku.com/a-game-about-what-really...life-1065975282

I think that game looks like an interesting thought experiment and is very much a quotidian game. However, as so many commenters on that article state, it's not really what most people would consider an engaging fun pastime. Beyond that, I am feeling my thoughts well echoed by Tiddles' and Relm's posts, by and large!

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The weird gameplay in Fahrenheit / Indigo Prophecy often felt like I was trying really hard to live a normal life when all kinds of supernatural and unfortunate things were happening to my character, well the main character. He's smack in the middle of a murder investigation, he's losing his sanity in stages, and he's getting supernatural visions. These are all outside a normal person's week, but the focus was on going to work, breaking up with his girlfriend (important), and having a shower and taking the right painkillers. And hey I liked that game, so my point is that these quotidian elements (never heard of this before btw) actually make for quite an interesting set of objectives, so I suppose it can kind of work in this respect. Definitely agree with those above who wrote that this kind of thing isn't a TRUE quotidian format though.

A straight up Second Life doesn't appeal to me at all, but I can't speak for those who play it so why not? I'd venture a guess that the thing people value most about non-competitive games is the escapism, and real life simulators are for a specific type of escapism.

The FF7 normal game sounds amazing! I must be one of those people that make nothing out of something.

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Scepticism, that dry rot of the intellect, had not left one entire idea in his mind.

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PS Home is probably worth bringing up here. In that it's just a consumer focused nowhere - especially the two main areas that everyone initially has access to. The areas are a bland seaside plaza and a mall, basically. These settings could be anywhere in the developed/developing world, climate notwithstanding.

Who wants to walk around a simulated shopping mall? Aren't these places hellish enough? The answer is many, many users of all ages, it baffles me as to why. Of course there is some limited social interaction (hanging out at the mall, anybody?)

I tried it for the first time with my old flatmate present and I remember asking him what the hell it was, and after a time of inquisitive boredom, I began simulating loneliness. Made my avatar just sit alone on a bench looking forlornly towards a group of chatting people, stuff like that. It amused us at the time but that non-game is horrifying as a social experiment imo. For instance, some people will shun you if you walk around in default clothing, having not paid real money for new stuff or spent enough time hunting for freebies.

I've probably gone a bit off the mark here but felt it was relevant enough.

This post has been edited by Blinge Odonata on 11th August 2013 21:40

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www.youtube.com/blinje
The victor sacrificed the vanquished to the heavens

Would Heavy Rain be a good example of a quotidian video game?

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I prefer the term "treasure hunting"!

Of the Final Fantasy games, VI is the most what someone would refer to as "quotidian."

Because its cast (the avatars through which the player experiences the game world) are (almost) all portrayed as a certain type of character trait, this frames the ideas and the events of the game as fairly relatable to everyday life.

Of course, there are many avenues through which VI abandons all logic and reason and becomes purely "fantasy," but of the main series games, it's the most firmly rooted in our world.

This post has been edited by Spooniest on 12th August 2013 12:15

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Quote (ReverendXIII @ 12th August 2013 06:25)

Would Heavy Rain be a good example of a quotidian video game?

Unless you count the initial chapters before the story begins, (you know: that story about a serial killer)

.. then certainly not.

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www.youtube.com/blinje
The victor sacrificed the vanquished to the heavens

Interesting that Spooniest would say VI is the most quotidian. It would be hard for me to see the VI characters in any other world, like today's as easily as VII's. The characters of VI are so stylized in clothing, desires, and situations it's hard to say, "Yeah, I'd go have a beer with them, or go see a play with them." I'd say VII would be the most Quotidian, in that it had more down to earth type, relatable characters of today's world:

Barret is rough around the edges, and knows the poor people living in Midgar are being screwed over by the "big guy" (Shinra), and he has a family member he'd do anything to protect. In many ways does the impoverished slums of Midgar remind me of the city slums of today, and the cynicism of the poor reflect many of the poor, uneducated people of today who are filled with hate and cynicism. His chip on his shoulder is pretty typical to see in real life.

Tifa is a barkeeper with a talent for cooking. She's also strong, kind, and lonely. If it weren't for her part in Avalanche, I could easily see her living an extremely mundane life of bartending and in general, living a small life with close friends.

Cloud, the strong, silent ex-military man. Doesn't really have any more ambition, as he went for his childhood dream of being a big, strong soldier and once he got there, it ended up not being what he envisioned. At my age, I see a lot of people like that actually. They get into the real world and do the job they always dreamed of as a kid, and then end up feeling kind of lost and like maybe there should have been more to it the whole time.

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You're telling me that there's no hope.

I'm telling you you're wrong.

Quote (Blinge Odonata @ 12th August 2013 13:22)

Quote (ReverendXIII @ 12th August 2013 06:25)

Would Heavy Rain be a good example of a quotidian video game?

Unless you count the initial chapters before the story begins, (you know: that story about a serial killer)

.. then certainly not.

Wouldn't the characterization of the choices you make in the game Heavy Rain emulate real life and meaning ? (which is what I thought y'all were saying was part of being quotidian)

In playing we are acknowledging the games existence (whether quotidian or not) as a separate reality/universe involving homo sapiens in modern day times in modern day houses etc. etc. In where we interact with a character and their choosing

What we should acknowledge, or take note of is that in making these decisions on a characters behalf we are depicting morals or ethics that we want to reflect onto a certain character, basically creating what we want to be created, for whatever purpose.

I view this as quotidian because to do what's stated above we have to reflect on our own everyday morality to come up with those answers. An existential view on our reality (or lack there of )is then created as we reflect on our own choices that we would make in the current position our characters are in, if we were them.

I may have my definitions mixed up but if anyone could clear this up for me, i'm highly

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

aroused

confused

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I prefer the term "treasure hunting"!

Quote (ReverendXIII @ 16th August 2013 05:35)

Quote (Blinge Odonata @ 12th August 2013 13:22)

Quote (ReverendXIII @ 12th August 2013 06:25)

Would Heavy Rain be a good example of a quotidian video game?

Unless you count the initial chapters before the story begins, (you know: that story about a serial killer)

.. then certainly not.

I view this as quotidian because to do what's stated above we have to reflect on our own everyday morality to come up with those answers.

If that's true then Demon's Souls is Quotidian..


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www.youtube.com/blinje
The victor sacrificed the vanquished to the heavens

Quote (RelmArrowney @ 16th August 2013 04:12)

Interesting that Spooniest would say VI is the most quotidian.  It would be hard for me to see the VI characters in any other world, like today's as easily as VII's.  The characters of VI are so stylized in clothing, desires, and situations it's hard to say, "Yeah, I'd go have a beer with them, or go see a play with them."  I'd say VII would be the most Quotidian, in that it had more down to earth type, relatable characters of today's world:

Barret is rough around the edges, and knows the poor people living in Midgar are being screwed over by the "big guy" (Shinra), and he has a family member he'd do anything to protect.  In many ways does the impoverished slums of Midgar remind me of the city slums of today, and the cynicism of the poor reflect many of the poor, uneducated people of today who are filled with hate and cynicism.  His chip on his shoulder is pretty typical to see in real life. 

Tifa is a barkeeper with a talent for cooking.  She's also strong, kind, and lonely.  If it weren't for her part in Avalanche, I could easily see her living an extremely mundane life of bartending and in general, living a small life with close friends. 

Cloud, the strong, silent ex-military man.  Doesn't really have any more ambition, as he went for his childhood dream of being a big, strong soldier and once he got there, it ended up not being what he envisioned.  At my age, I see a lot of people like that actually.  They get into the real world and do the job they always dreamed of as a kid, and then end up feeling kind of lost and like maybe there should have been more to it the whole time.

Wow. I didn't think that any FF was quotidian AT ALL but what you've written there is pretty convincing. That's a really cool way of looking at the game.

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Scepticism, that dry rot of the intellect, had not left one entire idea in his mind.

Me on the Starcraft.

It occurs to me that Chrono Trigger has some quotidian elements as well. Crono is a random kid who gets pulled into adventure like Martin Freeman, and his mother just acts like a mom. Lucca is a little more stylized, as she is an inventor who is capable of repairing and reprogramming artifially intelligent robots, but she is still relatively normal in personality, as is her father; and her mother is the most normal of anyone. Nadia is a princess, but she is also just a girl and acts like one. They are really just kids, who also happen to kill monsters. They even have actual parents. It is these quotidian elements that just make them all the more relatable.

I think you've derailed this, Raven.
Quotidian =/= having any resemblance to real life

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www.youtube.com/blinje
The victor sacrificed the vanquished to the heavens