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For every insult thrown at Final Fantasy 13 for its linearity, i become even more angry. People seem to think that this is some sort of new concept in final fantasy. Like no game before has ever made you go from point A to Point B. Every Final Fantasy that i have played with the exception of 12 has done this. You never have complete control of your destination until around a 60% completion (Rough estimate, some let you off the leash early) Why can people not see this. In FF10 you were pretty much trapped until the end of the game. in FF7, the holy untouchable "masterpiece" that its fans claim it to be, How about midgar eh, did you forget that lovely little section of the game. A to B. for hours.

12 escaped the linearity, but failed in its terms of story and characters. its star wars. but thats a topic for a different thread.

All the bashing and hating has driven me to the point of exasperation, to where people start clinging to their favorite Final Fantasy and proclaim that its the only "True" representative of the series and that all other ones should emulate it. its been 25 years now, and Final Fantasy fans have dug in their heels and refuse to accept that progress must be made. its for the betterment of the series. no 1 style can encompass the series or it risks going the Call of Duty path. same game every year, but with updated graphics. Change is what has made the Final Fantasy series great. Espers and classes and materia and junctioning, and sphere grids and crystalgenisis galore! bring on the change!

25 years. 25 years of change. and it needs to keep changing. People need to support the change, because as much fun as the past is, the future is here and now. it'd be foolish to ignore it.



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The Bird of Hermes is my name, Eating my Wings to keep me tame...

The reason it gets picked on, is because previous games were better, and the series has degenerated.FFXIII-2 is an example of why FFXIII recieved backlash, meaning that FFXIII-2 fixed a few things wrong with FFXIII, and nothing is wrong with having an opinion, as long as you are respectful.You are allowed to like it, but remember this:Don't make excuses for incompetence of square enix, because that just makes the company go downhill further.I want to like square enix games, but they betray me, and aren't as good as square.I have trouble caring about overly melodramatic characters like hope, or snow, and i don't think they are deep at all.

This post has been edited by Magitek_slayer on 24th October 2012 13:49

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

I think you may be misunderstanding some of the criticism. There is absolutely nothing wrong with change per se; and any change that brings innovation and improvement should be welcomed by all. However, change purely for change's sake is another matter entirely, and should not be championed without justification. Also, it's probably worth mentioning (not that I'm saying it has happened yet) that if you change a game series to such an extent that it is no longer recognisable as its original incarnation, then you've probably done a bad thing by the long-standing fans of the series - who arguably are responsible for the success and deserve some respect.

As for the linearity argument, of course all games have had an element of linearity, including FFXIII's predecessors. The difference between the impressive and unimpressive versions is how well this linearity is masked, and how much substance is given to the environment you pass through on your way from A to B. In XIII, you really are going from A to B in an almost straight line - a feeling which is reinforced by the permanently visible map which clearly defines the limit of your exploration. Add to this the fact that there are no NPCs to properly interact with and no side quests to complete or sojourns to fill in back story or add depth to the world you inhabit, and you are left with no illusion of anything but linearity.

In comparison, your example of FFVII and Midgar demonstrates (and I'm not simply running a fanboy spiel here) a much more accomplished method of concealing the linearity. The overtly linear sections are broken up and interspersed with areas to be explored and interacted with; there is a variety of incidental characters and sequences which you do not have to witness to complete the game, but which you can seek out if you want to enhance your experience; and there are plenty of amusing and harmless side quests which you can indulge or choose to ignore. The lack of a visible map also helps to dissuade the feeling of linearity because even when you are literally running from A to B, this fact isn't unavoidably thrust in your face.

So, I think the criticism XIII receives which is frustrrating you so much is not due to blinkered hypocrisy; but due to the fact that the game shows a poor execution of a skill that had previously been well demonstrated by earlier games in the series - thereby implying a negative change and not a positive one.

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We apologise for the inconvenience

Hey Omni.. You'll probably find an ally in me as I'm considered something of an FFXIII apologist. I have to say you and Sitltzkin both make very good points, and what clinches S's argument for me is this:

Quote

In XIII, you really are going from A to B in an almost straight line - a feeling which is reinforced by the permanently visible map which clearly defines the limit of your exploration.

Many of the 'streamlining' changes implemented in XIII can be forgiven, but essentially the game removes the joy of exploration from the game. I think the lack of exploration of any given area or dungeon is the key problem here and the worst effects of linearity; the times in which a player can chose different paths or spend time looking around an area at their own whim are firmly in the minority.

I like FFXIII, I thought the battle and leveling systems were tight, the story was good, although many people find it hard to get to grips with the clumsy narrative. (Yes.. note the difference between story and narrative) The player has to be willing however, to allow themselves to be shunted down nicely painted corridors to experience game's good points

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

Btw I played it enough to get all the the trophies ha ha... bow before me!

Unfortunately most criticism of the game does fit into Omnislash's description of ff fanboys: they're rather artless.
One question I would like to raise is who Squeenix is marketing the main series to now? Casual gamers? Trying to constantly bring in new people? Is the series worthless in corporate eyes unless it continues to attract a larger following? Surely the franchise is such a cash cow now that it will continue to attract more attention from its legacy alone and they won't need to dilute the product for the casual audience or try to bring in gimmicks like themes by Leona Lewis

Uh.. ramble over.

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www.youtube.com/blinje
The victor sacrificed the vanquished to the heavens

I should point out, that whilst I probably would say XIII is the worst (non-sequel) in the series for me, I'm not completely one-sided on the game. Like you say, Blinge, the story was actually rather good, and the graphics were astonishing - but I think that just increases my disappointment that it was let down by the gameplay!

Quote (Blinge Odonata)

One question I would like to raise is who Squeenix is marketing the main series to now? Casual gamers? Trying to constantly bring in new people? Is the series worthless in corporate eyes unless it continues to attract a larger following? Surely the franchise is such a cash cow now that it will continue to attract more attention from its legacy alone and they won't need to dilute the product for the casual audience or try to bring in gimmicks like themes by Leona Lewis   

I think this really is the big problem - somebody at Squenix (inevitably a corporate suit) has obviously decided that they need to attract new/casual gamers. The result is that they create a hybrid which is too diluted to retain the long-lasting fans, even those who aren't resistant to positive change; but is also too stunted and confused to actually appeal to anybody with whom the franchise hasn't already engendered an element of loyalty/goodwill.

Like you say, the legacy alone is probably enough to carry the series, as long as they don't keep meddling and tarnishing it. I think the company really needs to decide who it wants its audience to be and commit to them (and frankly, if that's casual gamers, then create a new damn franchise!).

This post has been edited by Stiltzkin on 24th October 2012 16:40

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We apologise for the inconvenience

I disagree on your exaggerating on most people thing, because it is the mix of casualized games that are spread so thin, and tries to be so different that it fails.It has some remnant of final fantasy, but it barely resembles it.We no longer control our characters, no more shops, and no more towns.

The game is more linear to the extreme, because at least you could see the world map and travel by airship, and the games didn't consist of 80-90% cutscenes, which wouldn't be so bad if they weren't so boring.It would be better if you could draw out some of the character development through the narrative and dialogue, instead of not drawing anything out yourself.I also don't like anime, and i find FFX and XIII grating.

Also:The game purposefully limits how powerful you can become, and they added nothing but took away a whole lot.The story is so slow and purposefully made as long and drawn out as possible.

Overall: Where is the rpg in my rpg? Where is the immersion?

This post has been edited by Magitek_slayer on 24th October 2012 17:10

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 24th October 2012 12:53)

I disagree on your exaggerating on most people thing, because it is the mix of casualized games that are spread so thin, and tries to be so different that it fails.It has some remnant of final fantasy, but it barely resembles it.We no longer control our characters, no more shops, and no more towns.

The game is more linear to the extreme, because at least you could see the world map and travel by airship, and the games didn't consist of 80-90% cutscenes, which wouldn't be so bad if they weren't so boring.It would be better if you could draw out some of the character development through the narrative and dialogue, instead of not drawing anything out yourself.I also don't like anime, and i find FFX and XIII grating.

Also:The game purposefully limits how powerful you can become, and they added nothing but took away a whole lot.The story is so slow and purposefully made as long and drawn out as possible.

Overall: Where is the rpg in my rpg? Where is the immersion?

I agree essentially that the basis of what makes a good RPG is not to use a certain formula, but rather to execute it properly. As omnislash said, and it's true, one of the best RPGs ever (VII) began with linearity, and the Midgar portion is one of the greatest video game segments/chapters in the history of the medium. FFXIII isn't being criticized because it's linear. It's being criticized because people didn't seem to think that it executed it well, and that made it boring (thus the "it gets better after 25 hours" bit). Most JRPGs are linear, in fact, that's mostly what makes them JRPGs and not WRPGs. The unfortunate thing for FFXIII is that it has to live up to the legacy of the previous FFs, which is not easy. I mean, in my view, FF6-10 are four of the greatest games ever created.

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Praise Be To Helix!

I think this short video is all the criticism needed...

http://youtu.be/47YPs-qwNQU



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www.youtube.com/blinje
The victor sacrificed the vanquished to the heavens

Fair enough, but ff7 gave you freedom much earlier, as did 8, and they had multiple dungeons and towns.

Linear? to a certain point, but FFXIII is straight forward, with nothing in between to keep us interested.Heck:FF tactics had better gameplay than FF6 FF7 FF8 FFX an FFXIII, and its linear to a point, but there are so many ways you can fight with techniques.You don't get to explore til like 30 hours into the game, and they drop you off with fetch quests, and not much content in those big open lands.The positive note:I actually liked some of the music.I thought some of the music was quite good, but i don't play video games for their soundtracks.

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

It's not the railroading, it's the fact that it's so obvious. It's the fact it barely lets you do anything. Look at This. This is Medal of Michael Bay.

Does Medal of Bad Boys look fun to play based on that clip? Hell no. But that's just the intro sequence, a slightly interactive intro sequence. FF13 is that sort of thing merged with a tutorial for twenty hours to some people. Ten for people who rushed.

Medal of Pearl Harbor attempts to beat CoD while failing to realise half the appeal of CoD is that it's realistic and absurd at the same time. Halo 4, that's going to sell well because it's an entirely different mindset of FPS compared to CoD and MoH/Battlefield.

And that's the trouble FF has. Every FF game comes across as an entirely different mindset of RPG each time, and the mindset of 13 has just been the same kind of mindset of 10, of Warfighter. Flashy visuals, little real interaction from the player, little reason to really care what's going on amongst all these explosions and impressive scenes.

To paraphrase the douchebags that helped write some music for Warfighter that helps remind us just what its trying to be (IE Medal of Transformers: Dark of the Fallenfighter): It tried so hard, and got so far, but in the end, it doesn't even matter. The mindset of making an interactive movie just doesn't sit that well with videogame players when they barely get to to play a game as a result of all the flash and shine. It makes the moments you have to do something feel like padding. They might as well just have the helicopter crash itself if you refuse to shoot it.

You make a movie for people to watch and be happy, you make a game for people to play and be happy. Trying to make both at once needs a delicate balance, because if someone wants the game but gets the movie, they're gonna be annoyed, and anyone wanting the movie having to play the game all the time is going to be bored mashing this little button against all these cloned enemies offering nothing but a hurdle in the way to the next part of the movie.

FF13 got the balance wrong. It made the movie parts tedious and dull, and the gameplay parts unrewarding and feeling like padding.




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"Only the dead have seen the end of their quotes being misattributed to Plato."
-George Santayana

"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here..."
-Abraham Lincoln, prior to the discovery of Irony.

I only have one problem with what you said:Videogames aren't movies or books, and can't be made the same for obvious reasons.Take silent hill movie for an example:They needed to get the feel the game had with its gameplay, but adapted to video.Some characters were changed, and stories of various games were merged to make it interesting.You can't put every detail, because it might drag on, making it a chore for said fanbase, and video games are more about gameplay, because it is part of what immerses us.I'm taking this from a D&D standpoint of what an rpg is.The rest is spot on in commentary.

The reason about gameplay, is because:look at resident evil 1:the part that makes it scary, is not the simple corny dialogue, or the very amateurish story.Its the gameplay, because the music, atmosphere, gameplay style that defines resident evil.jrp gs:Either you do one thing right, or not at all.

I would say some american rpgs have worse stories than jrpgs.Oblivion and fallout 3 and fable 2 stories are not that good, but they have good gameplay, something which FFXIII fails at both sides.Legend of legaia has a stupid childish story, with very simple corny characters who are one dimensional, but it is really fun because of the gameplay.Sometimes, the characters themselves are incorporated in the gameplay, like dragon age origins, which is why its so fun, and its best to simplify things if it helps make the story coherent, which FFXIII doesn't suffer from in my opinion, which is a mistake in ff7 and 8.

This post has been edited by Magitek_slayer on 25th October 2012 12:03

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Christ Del, I knew someone would over-do it.

also, poor linkin park =/

This post has been edited by Blinge Odonata on 25th October 2012 11:50

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www.youtube.com/blinje
The victor sacrificed the vanquished to the heavens

Quote (Blinge Odonata @ 25th October 2012 11:50)

Christ Del, I knew someone would over-do it.

also, poor linkin park =/

Overdo what?

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Quote (Blinge Odonata @ 25th October 2012 12:50)

Christ Del, I knew someone would over-do it.

also, poor linkin park =/

I read Del's post, thinking exactly the same thing, right down to the Linkin Park.

Having said that Del, your post made fantastic reading, even if it was about as subtle as Michael Bay... I doubt Omnislash will now be returning to the thread!

This post has been edited by Stiltzkin on 25th October 2012 14:27

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We apologise for the inconvenience

Haha, Indeed.. although it does read like an FPS rant with a Final Fantasy badge stuck on top

What did Omni say in the OP? That he was getting angry then? uh oh...

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www.youtube.com/blinje
The victor sacrificed the vanquished to the heavens

Quote (Del S @ 25th October 2012 07:23)

It's not the railroading, it's the fact that it's so obvious. It's the fact it barely lets you do anything. Look at This. This is Medal of Michael Bay.

Does Medal of Bad Boys look fun to play based on that clip? Hell no. But that's just the intro sequence, a slightly interactive intro sequence. FF13 is that sort of thing merged with a tutorial for twenty hours to some people. Ten for people who rushed.

Medal of Pearl Harbor attempts to beat CoD while failing to realise half the appeal of CoD is that it's realistic and absurd at the same time. Halo 4, that's going to sell well because it's an entirely different mindset of FPS compared to CoD and MoH/Battlefield.

And that's the trouble FF has. Every FF game comes across as an entirely different mindset of RPG each time, and the mindset of 13 has just been the same kind of mindset of 10, of Warfighter. Flashy visuals, little real interaction from the player, little reason to really care what's going on amongst all these explosions and impressive scenes.

To paraphrase the douchebags that helped write some music for Warfighter that helps remind us just what its trying to be (IE Medal of Transformers: Dark of the Fallenfighter): It tried so hard, and got so far, but in the end, it doesn't even matter. The mindset of making an interactive movie just doesn't sit that well with videogame players when they barely get to to play a game as a result of all the flash and shine. It makes the moments you have to do something feel like padding. They might as well just have the helicopter crash itself if you refuse to shoot it.

You make a movie for people to watch and be happy, you make a game for people to play and be happy. Trying to make both at once needs a delicate balance, because if someone wants the game but gets the movie, they're gonna be annoyed, and anyone wanting the movie having to play the game all the time is going to be bored mashing this little button against all these cloned enemies offering nothing but a hurdle in the way to the next part of the movie.

FF13 got the balance wrong. It made the movie parts tedious and dull, and the gameplay parts unrewarding and feeling like padding.

Everything you just mentioned is the reason why I've been irritated with the games starting at X even, to a certain extent. X at least was playable. XI doesn't count. By the time they got to XII, I could no longer stand to play or watch the game, and the railroading was really the biggest part.

Part of me almost wants to throw some of the blame here onto Konami for the precedents it set in the MGS series, which I'm just playing. Just so, while MGS comes off as being a whole lot of movie and less game, it doesn't bother me quite so much, and even has an endearing element to it. I speculate it has to do with the length of the game being so much shorter.

My friends and I call this railroading in present day video games "red-Xing", meaning you spend the entire game not thinking, and just running to the next red X. It isn't just Final Fantasy where this is rampant, either, just more noticeable, since at points in it's history, FF was known for being notoriously annoying at times for it's lack of directions. I always remember II, where I would die because I accidentally walked too far from the first town they start you in.

Del's post made me lol, though. It's spot on.

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If you've been mod-o-fied,
It's an illusion, and you're in-between.
Don't you be tarot-fied,
It's just alot of nothing, so what can it mean?
~Frank Zappa

Sins exist only for people who are on the Way or approaching the Way

At least metal gear solid 3 had a good story and likeable characters.I had trouble caring about any character in FFXIII.

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Quote (Del S @ 25th October 2012 11:23)

To paraphrase the douchebags that helped write some music for Warfighter

Oh wait.. hold the damn phone.. LP helped write for warfighter? Alright fine I'm with you, they're douchebags.

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www.youtube.com/blinje
The victor sacrificed the vanquished to the heavens

Quote (MogMaster @ 25th October 2012 11:59)

Everything you just mentioned is the reason why I've been irritated with the games starting at X even, to a certain extent. X at least was playable. XI doesn't count. By the time they got to XII, I could no longer stand to play or watch the game, and the railroading was really the biggest part.

Huh? XII had the most interactivity and least linearity of all the games mentioned. Of all the reasons to be critical of the game, that is most definitely not one.

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I fear my heart and fear my soul
Life goes on, it surely will,
Without me and I wonder:
Will I ever see light again?

Life goes on...

Quote (Sherick @ 26th October 2012 03:04)

Quote (MogMaster @ 25th October 2012 11:59)

Everything you just mentioned is the reason why I've been irritated with the games starting at X even, to a certain extent. X at least was playable. XI doesn't count. By the time they got to XII, I could no longer stand to play or watch the game, and the railroading was really the biggest part.

Huh? XII had the most interactivity and least linearity of all the games mentioned. Of all the reasons to be critical of the game, that is most definitely not one.

I heard the voice acting, and i liked them more than FFX, especially balthier and the bunny ears girl.
I thought even the bad guy brother of balthier sounded well voiced.

I also watched the gameplay, and at least it was way more an rpg than FFX, and FFXIII, and i'm thinking of buying it.So i agree sherick.

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Quote (Sherick @ 25th October 2012 23:04)

Quote (MogMaster @ 25th October 2012 11:59)

Everything you just mentioned is the reason why I've been irritated with the games starting at X even, to a certain extent. X at least was playable. XI doesn't count. By the time they got to XII, I could no longer stand to play or watch the game, and the railroading was really the biggest part.

Huh? XII had the most interactivity and least linearity of all the games mentioned. Of all the reasons to be critical of the game, that is most definitely not one.

Out of X-XIII, it was the one with the most differentiation, yes, but it was still a ton of movies I was doing nothing in, lame fetchquests, and a streamlined plot. There were things I liked about XII more than the other ones of the post PS1 gen and lower games, but it still seemed more like playing a movie. Little things, like making decent characters, like a group of pirates who keep demanding payment in order to keep providing the service of their ship. Things like this are nice, but XII is still a sort of lesser of three evils.

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If you've been mod-o-fied,
It's an illusion, and you're in-between.
Don't you be tarot-fied,
It's just alot of nothing, so what can it mean?
~Frank Zappa

Sins exist only for people who are on the Way or approaching the Way

X for me was annoying in the end, because it was pure grindfest, and getting spheres took forever.The most annoying part, are those mega slime things in the arena which are only vulnerable to magic, and take an eternity to kill.Even worse:They cast regenera, and reflect on themselves.They aren't even challenging, just plain tedious.If they wer hard and more rewarding, it would feel like an accomplishment.
XIII was worse, because some fights felt rewarding, while XIII was just plain boring.I kept getting the best item catalist, instead of platinum bars, and supposedly, the catalist was less common from adamantoises.I can take some grindy games if it feels rewarding.Early final fantasies were more rewarding than later ones post 2000.Tactics is very grindy, and gives you a million ways to fight with your abilities, like samurais and bm and monks.

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Magitek - you can't really use optional and self-initiated 'grindfests' as a criterion for judging the quality of a game, especially not in the context of this thread, where it isn't really applicable...

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We apologise for the inconvenience

Quote (Stiltzkin @ 27th October 2012 13:33)

Magitek - you can't really use optional and self-initiated 'grindfests' as a criterion for judging the quality of a game, especially not in the context of this thread, where it isn't really applicable...

I can if i compare merits between grindy games.
Tactics ff6 ff7 ff8 and ff9 have grinding.What is important, is the fun factor.If it isn't fun, then it feels unrewarding.People talk about the skills in ff6,ff7,ff8,ff9,FFX, tactics, etc etc.Up from 8, they started to become tedious, especially 8, 10 and XIII.X at least had more variety in mini games.

I still think X and XIII are the worse i've played in the series.X was pretty much attack=Win, and there wasn't variety in fights.XIII was worse, because the game fights for you, leaving only paradigm changes.

You even instantly heal after battle, and are cured of status ailments.At least previous games had more strategy.The one thing FFXII surpasses FFX in, is monster variety.There are some pallet swaps, but i liked some monster designs.

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 27th October 2012 12:26)

X for me was annoying in the end, because it was pure grindfest, and getting spheres took forever.The most annoying part, are those mega slime things in the arena which are only vulnerable to magic, and take an eternity to kill.Even worse:They cast regenera, and reflect on themselves.They aren't even challenging, just plain tedious.

Followed by

Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 27th October 2012 15:26)

I still think X and XIII are the worse i've played in the series.X was pretty much attack=Win, and there wasn't variety in fights.

lol

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www.youtube.com/blinje
The victor sacrificed the vanquished to the heavens

What is so funny about what i said ?

I could pretty much spam attack, and win in every fight in arena.I do 99.9999, and pummel snelga to death.Even its shell is no match..

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

The most fun are the dark aeons, because they are a little tougher, and some can be rendered harmless, like having auto regen, break hp, and ribbon for bahamut.After that, its a matter of time before he dies.

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

It's interesting Magitek, that you included FFT in that list. I'm enjoying it so far, but the enjoyment is not through grinding, because the battles appear to be pretty tedious. The fun is mostly in the story and aesthetics.

To me, X's grinding wasn't bad at all because it was quick and painless.

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Praise Be To Helix!

Quote (BlitzSage @ 28th October 2012 02:22)

It's interesting Magitek, that you included FFT in that list. I'm enjoying it so far, but the enjoyment is not through grinding, because the battles appear to be pretty tedious. The fun is mostly in the story and aesthetics.

To me, X's grinding wasn't bad at all because it was quick and painless.

Thats because there are so many techniques, and i find turning enemies into chickens amusing.On top, you can't just spam attack to win(FFX), or limit breaks(FF8).Strategy in rpgs, along with variety makes a game better.

Quick and painless? Did you see how long it took to kill that gigaslime, or whatever its called in arena? 3-5 mins per slime, and only a few magic sphere.I'd take over that tediousness any day.The other ones aren't bad, and can be finished faster, but i do wish more spheres would drop minus warp which is easy.I would keep the same drop rate for non spheres, because of the bribe option.

This post has been edited by Magitek_slayer on 28th October 2012 09:57

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Quote (MogMaster @ 26th October 2012 11:54)

Quote (Sherick @ 25th October 2012 23:04)

Quote (MogMaster @ 25th October 2012 11:59)

Everything you just mentioned is the reason why I've been irritated with the games starting at X even, to a certain extent. X at least was playable. XI doesn't count. By the time they got to XII, I could no longer stand to play or watch the game, and the railroading was really the biggest part.

Huh? XII had the most interactivity and least linearity of all the games mentioned. Of all the reasons to be critical of the game, that is most definitely not one.

Out of X-XIII, it was the one with the most differentiation, yes, but it was still a ton of movies I was doing nothing in, lame fetchquests, and a streamlined plot. There were things I liked about XII more than the other ones of the post PS1 gen and lower games, but it still seemed more like playing a movie. Little things, like making decent characters, like a group of pirates who keep demanding payment in order to keep providing the service of their ship. Things like this are nice, but XII is still a sort of lesser of three evils.

Again, I don't really see this being much of a problem. Are you saying the plot is too generic? Not enough twists? I don't think that's much the case, and if you think that you haven't paid much attention, but that is totally understandable because the plot gets pretty dense at times. Part of the reason for that though is that the main story is not completely in your face all the time, and it becomes particularly easy to lose track of it all. So in that way I cannot understand the "interactive movie" label; it most certainly does not apply here any more than it would to almost any game, especially not in the Final Fantasy franchise (good God, X was really heavy on this).

--------------------

I fear my heart and fear my soul
Life goes on, it surely will,
Without me and I wonder:
Will I ever see light again?

Life goes on...

First of all, blahh derailed thread

Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 28th October 2012 09:50)

Quick and painless? Did you see how long it took to kill that gigaslime, or whatever its called in arena? 3-5 mins per slime, and only a few magic sphere.I'd take over that tediousness any day.

Secondly: Magi, we were talking about the general game experience here, you can't really knock X for optional things to do AFTER the story has finished, they added those in there solely for gamers who want to grind their characters up to max level, which is a tiny minority of gamers, because grinding generally is tedious.

Third: in the context of this thread one could bring up grinding as something to criticise if it was crucial for beating the game, or unavoidable. A shining example would be FF1



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www.youtube.com/blinje
The victor sacrificed the vanquished to the heavens