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Hey,

I'm new here, so I'm not sure if I'm doing this right, but I have been to a lot of FFVI websites. I have noticed that Sabin gets a bad wrap. Most sites call him " not so bright" or "dumb as a doorbell", but I don't think he deserves this.

If you have noticed by my name, Sabin is my favorite character, but even if he wasn't I would feel the same way about him.

First off, he is of royal birth, so he was educated to rule a country, just as Edgar was.

Second, He lived on his own for ten years, which most likely means he has more life experience and street smarts than his 'big' brother.

Third, he is a martial arts master, and martial artist learn to focus their minds as well as their body, and I don't know any martial artists that are stupid (even though the only ones I know are Bruce Lee and Jackie Chan).

Finally, he doesn't do anything completely stupid. Everything he does can be explained by him being brash. He may rush into things, but that doesn't make him stupid.

Does anyone agree with me, or do you all think that he is "dumber than a bag of hammers"?

Also, I want to know, if you don't think he is dumb, which characters are?



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Praise Be To Helix!

Hrrrm. Well, I think the dialogue does make him sound stupid at times ("Uh? Why's everyone crying?") but it may be that he's just slow to catch that kind of thing. He might be intelligent in other ways-- like, he could do well on a test, but has no common sense or social perception or something.

I don't think the fact that he's a martial artist, or that he isn't the type to run a kingdom, have anything to do with his intelligence. I think it's something that people gauge by his dialogue and his plotline and stuff... He is often shown as being kind of slow to pick up on things, but intelligence and being "quick on the uptake" aren't really the same thing. Some very deep minds take a while to process things, or follow a beat behind.

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- Sagiri -
"It is difficult to find happiness within oneself, and impossible to find it anywhere else."
:)

I've never really felt that Sabin was unintelligent in any way. I've never really seen too many other people claim that either. Maybe I've thought that he was emotional (he does seem to be the more emotional Figaro brother, at least to me), but never dumb.

For the most part, I don't think any of the other main characters are really unintelligent either (Gau's doing pretty well for someone who was basically thrown out at a very young age), and most of them are at least from some line of royalty (Sabin, Edgar, Cyan) or have/had high positions as either imperial officers (Terra, Celes, Leo), and so on and so forth.

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OSonic Rave
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[ ]Strike Raid
XRagnarok

you should search for that hedious post which listed at least 20 reasons "proving" Sabin was gay.

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I'VE HAD AN ETERNITY TO PONDER THE MEANING OF THINGS. AND NOW I HAVE AN ANSWER...

i just read the "thesis" and the one about the ponytail and if he let it out. look, he's not dumb, not gay, and he doesn't have a mullet. i don't care if it looks like it in his sprite.

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Praise Be To Helix!

Doesn't have a mullet? Um, yes he does.

Even in the Amano pictures he has a mullet. Oh, and I have heard nothing come out of Sabin's mouth that does not suggest that he is of even average intelligence.

And he is gay...

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"You broke my f***ing sitar, mother f***er."
-Anton A. Newcombe

"Yet another 'use your sword to magically deliver death from above' character comes in somewhere between the Living Cabbage and Milkmaid character options." -red_beard_neo

he may have a mullet, but HE IS NOT GAY!!!

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Praise Be To Helix!

What? Are you saying that there is something wrong with being gay? So what if Sabin is gay? Doesn't make him any weaker, Aurabolt damage (last I heard) was not based on his heterosexuality stat it's based on his Magpwr...which is in no way influenced by his sexuality.

There are plenty of royals, martial artists and people who live on their own that breathe from their mouths (as in they are stupid)...

Namely; Prince Charles, Chuck Norris and my cousin Steve. And what part of being brash does not go hand-in-hand with stupidity?

This post has been edited by GooseKnight on 10th December 2006 16:22

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"You broke my f***ing sitar, mother f***er."
-Anton A. Newcombe

"Yet another 'use your sword to magically deliver death from above' character comes in somewhere between the Living Cabbage and Milkmaid character options." -red_beard_neo

Sabins smarter than Umaro, Gau, Relm, Leo, and Gogo (anyone of normal intelligence would just have left that dungeon...) but probably not the rest of them. Terra always seemed sort of ditzey to me actuallly...

i'm not saying there's anything wrong with being gay, i just don't think he is. but how could i know, i didn't make the game. come to think of it, they did edit the original version, maybe he's supposed to be gay. i can only judge for myself.

anyways, i don't think brashness=stupidity. we all have been brash at least once in our lives. if you listen closely to his dialogue, he seems as if he has a good grasp on what's going on around him. i wish i could play the japanese version to see what he was like.

This post has been edited by BlitzSage on 10th December 2006 18:19

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Praise Be To Helix!

There's a reason the topic in question was closed. If this one derails further on that track, it will be too. Keep it on topic, please.


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Hey, put the cellphone down for a while
In the night there is something wild
Can you hear it breathing?
And hey, put the laptop down for a while
In the night there is something wild
I feel it, it's leaving me

I don't believe that Sabin is dumb, he just seems more naive and acts on impulse as opposed to forming a plan.

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Could you repeat that?

Sabin may not be brilliant, he's not the most level-headed character either, but there is no point in the game that he does anything to suggest he is unintelligent. He wasn't living in the forests and away from Figaro all his life either. Keep in mind up until the time he was to be named King, he lived and was raised in Figaro Castle, I'd imagine he'd be entitled to the same level of education that Edgar received. He only ran away later in his life, and began to study martial arts, which isn't something that can be done easily by someone of low intelligence, in fact most forms of martial arts encourage the growth of body, spirit and mind.

Also, he is depicted as having a mullet but so what? Some of the best characters in the gaming world have had mullets at some point or another. Look at Solid Snake in the Metal Gear series. As for his sexuality, there is nothing to suggest anything in any direction and the argument that he is, well it's entirely without proof and a stupid concept that probably stemmed from some fanboy fanfic somewhere. Who cares? Anyways, that's off topic.

This post has been edited by Dragon_Fire on 11th December 2006 00:15

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Okay, but there was a goat!

Quote (JesusBomb @ 10th December 2006 11:46)

Sabins smarter than Umaro, Gau, Relm, Leo, and Gogo (anyone of normal intelligence would just have left that dungeon...) but probably not the rest of them. Terra always seemed sort of ditzey to me actuallly...

I wouldnt say he's smarter than Leo. That guy was a brilliant general.

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I'VE HAD AN ETERNITY TO PONDER THE MEANING OF THINGS. AND NOW I HAVE AN ANSWER...

Dragon_Fire said exactly what I believe. Sabin has learned to channel his mind, body, and spirit. The reason I started this topic is because most forums call him dumb. I simply think he needs more credit, which I think he doesn't get sometimes.

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Praise Be To Helix!

Leo trusted the empire, that dumbs him down a lot for me. He was a cool character, but not very smart. Sabin was never stupid enough to trust the empire.

Sabin isn't dumb...I just think that he isn't as smart as Edgar (who invents all that machinery) nor as cunning (who basically is co-leader of the Returners and takes over in the World of Ruin).

The two are so closely intertwined in most people's mind that he SEEMS "dumb" because he doesn't measure up to his brother.

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SuperHeroChat

I don't think that he is stupid, but that he jumps into things, and might be on the impulsive side (namely when he jumped off the waterfall), but he seems like a smart, sensitive, guy.

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Dead Winter. A nice comic.

I don't honestly believe that Sabin is unintelligent. And saying Sabin is a homosexual is like making up a big fat lie, then eating it back into your mouth. He is asexual, and I don't see why there's so much presure involving "Sabin being gay" or "not smart lol".

Has Final Fantasy ever had a character who was openly gay? Do you think it would piss people off? Sabin seems to be about as close as it gets, in my experience. There don't seem to be any other adult, male, human characters without a love interest besides Sabin:

Terra: female
Locke: Rachel, Celes
Celes: female
Edgar: Everything that moves
Cyan: late wife
Gau: kid
Shadow: Relm's mom
Setzer: Maria
Strago: Relm's mom's mom
Relm: kid, female
--
Mog: Not human
Umaro: Not human
Gogo: Not necessarily male.

That just leaves Sabin.

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I hear the jury's still out on...science.

That's it, you people have stood in my way long enough! I'm going to clown college!

To correct the above poster, Setzer's love interest was Daryl, and Strago was not biologically Relm's grandfather so "Relm's Mom's Mom" is not correct.

Quote (silvermike @ 14th December 2006 16:31)

Has Final Fantasy ever had a character who was openly gay? Do you think it would piss people off? Sabin seems to be about as close as it gets, in my experience. There don't seem to be any other adult, male, human characters without a love interest besides Sabin:

Terra: female
Locke: Rachel, Celes
Celes: female
Edgar: Everything that moves
Cyan: late wife
Gau: kid
Shadow: Relm's mom
Setzer: Maria
Strago: Relm's mom's mom
Relm: kid, female
--
Mog: Not human
Umaro: Not human
Gogo: Not necessarily male.

That just leaves Sabin.

Not that it's on topic, but just because he doesn't have a love interest doesn't mean that he's gay. That's like saying just because a man is single and not looking for a woman to date at the moment, he's not into women at all. Why is it that you don't consider Terra or Celes as lesbians then? How do you know Gau isn't into animals?

You can think of Sabin any way you want, that's your choice but that kind of logic just doesn't make sense.



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Okay, but there was a goat!

Terra's love life is a primary plot line, and Celes has Locke. I'm going to just ignore that Gau comment.

I'm not saying that this proves anything. But the Final Fantasy series has a tendency to set up its characters with love interests. The fact that the writers decided not to for only one character - who is otherwise a fit, muscular, in-the-prime-of-his-life guy - hints at the possibility. Obviously, not all single men are gay if they're not looking for women.

Moreover, I think the plot of the game is more interesting if Sabin is gay. First of all, it's a plotline that would be almost entirely unique in video games - much more so at the time. Secondly, it would serve to further draw attention to the differences between Sabin and his brother. Finally, it adds a new angle to Sabin's flight from Figaro - the expectation of a bride for the new king would be painful for him.

None of this proves anything - regarding author's intent or otherwise - I just think that it's an interesting way to view the plot that adds depth and character development.

And as to the original topic - he's definitely not dumb. He's not a berserker or a barbarian or something like that. He's a skilled, disciplined, martial artist. *Artist*. The man literally devises a new technique time and time again that is often more powerful than sword or spell. He doesn't just hit hard.

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I hear the jury's still out on...science.

That's it, you people have stood in my way long enough! I'm going to clown college!

I'm just not going to comment on the gay thing, since that isn't what the topic is about. As for Sabin being dumb....I don't think he's the sharpest tool in the shed and the line "Uh, why's eveyone singing" (in an opera) doesn't make him sound smart. Of course, sounding smart and being smart are two different things. Maybe his head is smart and his mouth is dumb.

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Why, hello guys! Haven't been around here in a loooong time!
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Gau is a genius hidden in the cloak of savagery.

Sabin is not that dumb. The dumbest member of the cast is probably Umaro, anyway.

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Check the "What games are you playing at the moment?" thread for updates on what I've been playing.

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Dumbest member is totally NOT Sabin.

My vote is Umaro, though it's not fair to call him dumb, seeing as he's a sasquatch.

Sabin is AWESOME! :-) Like you say, he's brash not stupid. It's really amazing (not really) how people confuse the two terms.

As for characters I think are stupid, well, I think some of them do stupid things at times, but I don't think they are stupid.

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You can't have sunshine without rain, so let the rain fall.

I did think that Sabin was a bit slow, during the Opera he asks why they're singing, being a prince wouldn't he be used to that sort of thing ?

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Currently playing Chrono Trigger !!
Currently looking forward to Don't Know.

From what I understand about Sabin, he's implusive. He's that type of guy who makes the majority of his decisions from his heart and not so much from his brain. That in no way makes him stupid but implusiveness is both a strength and weakness depending on the situation.

To this day I am proud to have left behind such a legacy of people thinking too much about Sabin.

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The Collapse of Heaven and Earth