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First of all, NPC is 'non-playable character', just in case you've not heard it before!

I said in the 'What games are you playing' thread that I've been playing a bit of Knights of the Old Republic. What's really got to me is the quality of NPCs. I'm about 5 or 6 hours in. I've played the game before years ago and since then I've been playing a number of relatively bland games that are fun but without much bite. Here, however, I'm taken aback by how involving the characters are and how the game, not the dialogue, can have such an incredible effect on these character's personality.

For example I broke into someone's house and spoke to the woman who was living there. She thought I was there to kill her for the bounty (silly thing to say) so I told her I wouldn't help her, I would kill her and collect the money (because I'm trying to play as evil as possible). Then my teammate Carth said I'm being unfair and tried to talk me out of it. In the end I started a swordfight with the woman and Carth, despite not liking my methods, joined in the fight and shot her dead. Now, at first it seems a bit out of character, but it's actually really good. It's like he's torn between doing the right thing and working alongside me, so he has to protect me when I'm in a fight, no matter who I'm against.

There are so few games where the NPCs behaviour or mentality are not expressly outlined, instead they're implied in their actions. I really like it. I prattle on and on about Deus Ex but what the hell it deserves it, in Deus Ex the NPCs do this all the time. You can learn a lot from what an NPCs does, not what he says.

The question is what other games are there that have this? Also, what NPCs do you really like in general and in which games?

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Scepticism, that dry rot of the intellect, had not left one entire idea in his mind.

Me on the Starcraft.

I could probably talk about this topic an unhealthy amount! Haha.

This guy
Now officially serves no purpose in the WoW storyline. A few expansions ago he was thought to be an Undead leader, but now that we found out he's just a cronie, he left to just go live a life of fishing by the lake.
What's funny about him is now, if you just see him, he's fishing and not bothering anyone, but you can attack him. If you do (he's a rare mob, which usually yield more exp and cool items), he says, "All I wanted was peace and quiet!" Which makes me laugh. The fisherman next to him doesn't even do anything while you fight him.

There's also an awesome questline in the Badlands where you have this dwarf, this orc, and a gnome all sitting around a campfire. Your objective is to hear each one tell the story of why this dragon doesn't come around there anymore, and just like in a 90's TV show, haha, they all have completely different sides of the story.
With the dwarf, you have one fighting ability, and that's to punch things. lol. And he sees the dragon looming in the distance, and thinks to himself, "I'm going to punch that dragon in the face!" goes around punching "Dang-blasted rocks" and punching the fog that mysteriously appeared away.
And then the gnome's story says that he invented a machine that made the world shrink, which is awesome. Basically you get to run around badlands as this giant gnome. Pretty neat.
With the orc, he's like, "That story didn't have enough babes in it! Or cool bikes!" So his story starts, there's these chicks around him swooning (and a male blood elf), and he has to pick one, give it a ride in his motorcycle, and defeat Deathwing in a knife fight. At some point he remembers his motorcycle can fly, and so it does. Classic!

There's also a running joke on male blood elves and how feminine they look. That's the second quest I've seen where they've been referred to as a pretty female, hahaha. Basically all the other Horde characters are all gruff, ugly looking things so they just assume all blood elves are females because of how feminine the race looks.

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You're telling me that there's no hope.

I'm telling you you're wrong.

It's been too long since I've gone on a good old-fashioned ramble-rant, right? Right. Feel free to skip over this, I'd completely understand a tl;dr.

BioWare's RPGs tend to have great NPCs. I cared an inordinate amount about certain characters in Dragon Age: Origins; the actions of certain humans in the City Elf origin inspired me to commit a LOT of in-game genocide when I typically play good characters. Still playing that game, but the quality of dialog and the number of character-rich NPCs has me thinking about the game when I *really* should be working. Of all the Dragon Age NPCs, my favorite is Jory. Jory's only around for a very brief time, but his extremely sudden and unexpected death had a lot of impact and really sets the scene for what being a Grey Warden is like.

The other recent games that stunned me with NPCs are my 2009 and 2010 GOTYs: Uncharted 2 and Red Dead Redemption. Uncharted 2's non-Nate characters are awesome. Sully, Elena, and Chloe are all fan-favorites that you genuinely care about as the game marches on. I normally don't get terribly excited about videogame romances, but Elena and Chloe are such great female characters that I was really interested in how it would turn out. I'll be a little disappointed if only one of them (or neither of them) is in Uncharted 3. My favorite Uncharted NPC is probably Elena. She transforms from annoying and borderline useless at the start of the first Uncharted to a worthy partner in crime by the end of the second.

The NPCs in Red Dead are also great. You sympathize with the American Indians and the struggling ranchers, you despise the government agents and the outlaws, and you get so attached to your family that even the most boring tasks in the game (herding cattle, teaching your son how to shoot) are WAY less boring than they should be. My favorite's probably Bonnie MacFarlane. What a lady. She reminds me of Sundance's wife from Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. She'd fit in perfectly in any old 1960s Western film, except that her strength of character would be a little ahead of its time.

One more thing about Red Dead Redemption - its Undead Nightmare DLC is completely bonkers, but also excellent, and has a surprisingly great NPC moment.

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

In the woods, you can track down an injured Sasquatch. Yup, an Umaro-esque Sasquatch. Dying, the Sasquatch explains that he's the last of his kind, and begs you to shoot him. I got WAY too moved by such a throwaway character. When my friend shot him (I was watching a friend play the game) I actually got a little upset.

So sure, that's my answer. Dragon Age, Red Dead, Uncharted. Play those games. Great NPCs.

This post has been edited by laszlow on 8th March 2011 21:53

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this is a blog mostly about comics and videogames
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Well, you already mentioned Deus Ex, about which, aside from some shoddy voice acting in spots, you're right on.

I'm still on my first playthrough, but I have to throw Bioshock out there. Given that you don't meet a number of the characters in person until well after you first hear them on your radio (no spoilers, please!), and some you barely or never meet, they do a great job through the voice acting and game mechanics of rounding them out.

Oh, and let's not forget the game that has possibly the most beloved NPCs in gaming: Portal. I'm not sure anything else even needs to be said, there, but I'm happy to follow up as needed.

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"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN? Or perhaps buying a really good looking shirt?

Sir Isaac Newton is the deadliest son of a b**** in space.

Quote (Rangers51 @ 9th March 2011 00:20)

Well, you already mentioned Deus Ex, about which, aside from some shoddy voice acting in spots, you're right on.

And that's just Paris! I thought Hong Kong was bad enough.

Which reminds me, that kid from the start of the video was blown up by TWO MJ12 grenades the last time I played the game. I lead MJ12 into the base and they killed everyone except one guy (who said to me "do not let them follow you"). They didn't shoot the boy, two soldiers actually pulled out LAMs and blew him up. I thought I was past caring about infanticide in that game, but really... ugh. Anyway I thought I'd mention it because the ways NPCs die, preferably not as part of a game's plot, can be, eh, challenging.

Another game I thought had good NPC deaths were Fallout 3 and Oblivion. I like how the games had 'open-ended' characters who had stories should they survive, but if they didn't the game continued accordingly. The battle at the end of Oblivion wiped out everyone except Sean Bean when I played it.

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Scepticism, that dry rot of the intellect, had not left one entire idea in his mind.

Me on the Starcraft.

Relm, that is definitely my favorite WoW quest in the game. It is just too fun and awesome!

Also, as mentioned already, BioWare always does a great job of NPC development. I have to go with the amazing personality that put them on the map IMO, that of Minsc from the Baldur's Gate series. An insane berserker whose best friend is a Miniature Giant Space Hamster? And you can't even remove said hamster from the action inventory slot because of how important he is to Minsc? Everything about Minsc is just ducky! Go for the eyes, Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!!!

He's among my favorite NPC's in any game. Edwin Odesseiron from the same series is also great.

What comes to mind off the top of my head is Olan Durai from FFT. You barely interact with him, his most important role comes after the game ends, and he's generally just a background character. But still, the dude is an NPC for just a single battle and the entire time all you can think is "Why the hell can't I play him/Why the hell can't I access his job skillset?"

Olan Durai, attacking with the power of words since the War of the Lions.

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I find your lack of faith disturbing...

dragon age origins.

I swear,i fell back laughing and in shock when zevran hit on me.
Zevran is a bisexual elf who is an assassin with a accent of someone who speaks english as a second language with the outline of a spanish accent.

The dialogue between morigan and the other characters can be quite entertaining.Depending on who you get you can get an argument and there are characters who hate eachother outright or perhaps like the character.
First time i played,the leliana fell in love with me and she told me how she feels and then wynne the circle mage started to give me a huge lecture and advice on love and how i should concentrate on the mission and she had doubts about me taking care of leliana and stuff like that and after leliana loves me enough for lovemaking,she changes her mind and thinks i am capable.

This proves that the game reacts to how you react to a character,and depending on what you do,you can actually make leliana wynne and even alistair hate you.

morrigan is evil but so much fun and zevran is an assassin and recruiting him lowers your relation with some characters.


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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Pretty much every townsperson in Earthbound. That game was so well-written that I still end up talking to everybody in town when I play through because they're all so bizarre and hilarious. There's one part early on where you knock on somebody's door, and instead of it opening or having no answer, someone from the other side randomly gives you a pop quiz about a Beatles song.

"Hey, you! If you meet a beautiful, seductive woman who's looking for me, tell her 'hi.' Anyway, I don't think a woman like that would be looking for me."

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Hey, put the cellphone down for a while
In the night there is something wild
Can you hear it breathing?
And hey, put the laptop down for a while
In the night there is something wild
I feel it, it's leaving me

Ohh, I should also point out that I like when you talk to inanimate objects and there's some sort of response.

Like in Chrono Cross in the first village, there's a pot that if you press X to it says, "No answer. It's just a 'pot'." And in the next world, "No answer. It's just an 'urn'." I forget if that even had a point, but I liked it.

Also, again from WoW, I really, really love Lady Sylvanas' storyline. She was an excellent archer and strategist from an aristocratic family in life. She kept thwarting Arthas' plans to compeltely take over time and time again, and when they finally caught her, instead of just killing her, they turned her into an undead mindless minion. From there she regained consciousness in secret and got an army of undead behind her. So now, although she's revolted at the fact that she's undead, instead of moping about, she takes charge of her new home and life.

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You're telling me that there's no hope.

I'm telling you you're wrong.

Quote (RelmArrowney @ 9th March 2011 16:17)

Like in Chrono Cross in the first village, there's a pot that if you press X to it says, "No answer. It's just a 'pot'." And in the next world, "No answer. It's just an 'urn'." I forget if that even had a point, but I liked it.

Actually, if you talk to the 'pot' and 'urn' enough times, they give you elements.

Hm...favourite NPCs...I like most of the NPCs in Mother 3 and Persona 4, how you can follow them throughout the games and learn more about them as characters. I loved the depth of the characters in Bioshock, and how the background characters in Chrono Cross were all philosophers (and in some cases were better developed than those you got on your team!)

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"If art doesn't risk upsetting expectations and challenging its audience, it can only stagnate."

90% of the NPCs in FFT. I'd love to see more of Delita and Dycedarg and Rofel, etc. etc. (for several pages).

Quote (Neal @ 9th March 2011 10:36)

Pretty much every townsperson in Earthbound. That game was so well-written that I still end up talking to everybody in town when I play through because they're all so bizarre and hilarious. There's one part early on where you knock on somebody's door, and instead of it opening or having no answer, someone from the other side randomly gives you a pop quiz about a Beatles song.

"Hey, you! If you meet a beautiful, seductive woman who's looking for me, tell her 'hi.' Anyway, I don't think a woman like that would be looking for me."

Man, I need to play that game... if it'd ever come out on VC.

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Praise Be To Helix!

Yeah, by my experience, no one does characterizations better than BioWare. No one. It's one reason why Baldur's Gate I & II remain my favorites games.

Two characters I really like are Jaheira (BG I & II) and Jan (BG II). Jaheira's so confident and, well, she's kinda bossy and a busybody (but I see those as her charms, too!) Plus, I love her voice. For me, Jan works better as a comedic character than either Minsc or Edwin, since the latter two are a bit too caricature-ish for my tastes (though I still like Edwin). Jan's meandering, long-winded, kind of dubious, and ultimately pointless stories about his myriad family members really crack me up.

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Console RPG Cliches

Quote (Neal @ 9th March 2011 09:36)

Pretty much every townsperson in Earthbound. That game was so well-written that I still end up talking to everybody in town when I play through because they're all so bizarre and hilarious. There's one part early on where you knock on somebody's door, and instead of it opening or having no answer, someone from the other side randomly gives you a pop quiz about a Beatles song.

I always wonder about Earthbound... it's always been amazing to me that the game's pure humor really shined through in a time where (particularly RPG) translations were pretty suspect. How could a relatively low profile game about incredibly non sequitur wackiness turn out so... uncannily charming?

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I find your lack of faith disturbing...

Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 9th March 2011 04:17)

Zevran, Morrigan, Leliana, Wynne, Alistair

Did you read the topic, dood? Those are all playable characters. The topic is about NPCs. I agree with you that DA:O has great characters, but that's not what the topic is about.

Bonus: love the NPCs in Skies of Arcadia. Colorful cast of villains, plus the recruitable NPCs that you can put on your ship and subsequently summon in a crazy super-attack.

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this is a blog mostly about comics and videogames
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Quote (BlitzSage @ 9th March 2011 20:17)

Man, I need to play that game... if it'd ever come out on VC.

It'll never happen. From what I understand, the game would require some very extensive tweaking/censoring to pass copyright problems, and Nintendo isn't willing to do that much work for a VC release.

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"If art doesn't risk upsetting expectations and challenging its audience, it can only stagnate."

This guy...

Someone mentioned how much they hated him in a topic here years ago, and I immediately fell in love with him. By far the most standard stock of NPC ever. Simplistic beauty at it's best!

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If you've been mod-o-fied,
It's an illusion, and you're in-between.
Don't you be tarot-fied,
It's just alot of nothing, so what can it mean?
~Frank Zappa

Sins exist only for people who are on the Way or approaching the Way

Quote (laszlow @ 10th March 2011 07:12)

Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 9th March 2011 04:17)

Zevran, Morrigan, Leliana, Wynne, Alistair

Did you read the topic, dood? Those are all playable characters. The topic is about NPCs. I agree with you that DA:O has great characters, but that's not what the topic is about.

Well, if you wanna be technical, Jory's a playable character, too : / , even if for just a short time.

I realize now that sweetdude meant "non-playable character", but for some games (like Baldur's Gate), npc means non-player character, and some people are more familiar with that. That's why I brought up Jaheira and Jan, and Magitek_slayer may have been thrown off by TheEvilEye's earlier mention of Minsc and Edwin.

And while I'm here, I'd like to make mention of BGII's Lilarcor, a loud, obnoxious talking sword who, in his own words, "I don't know what you were expecting, but as a sword I'm pretty one-dimensional in what I waaant!" That one's full of funny quotes, usually having to do with wanting to kill something. He happens to be a mighty useful weapon as well.

This post has been edited by Galsic on 10th March 2011 21:42

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Console RPG Cliches

Furr 'nuff. I barely counted Jory as a playable character, because he doesn't even gain experience on top of being playable such a short time . His death was a shock to me, especially since I spent a good ten minutes talking to him about his family.

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this is a blog mostly about comics and videogames
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Quote (MogMaster @ 10th March 2011 20:01)

This guy...

Haha. great post.

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www.youtube.com/blinje
The victor sacrificed the vanquished to the heavens

Quote (Galsic @ 10th March 2011 21:29)

I realize now that sweetdude meant "non-playable character", but for some games (like Baldur's Gate), npc means non-player character, and some people are more familiar with that.  That's why I brought up Jaheira and Jan, and Magitek_slayer may have been thrown off by TheEvilEye's earlier mention of Minsc and Edwin.

Ah that's my fault. Let me clarify. I assumed non-playable and non-player are the same thing. A playable character doesn't just mean you control them, or can control them. The player must go through the story as these characters; the characters act as the player's avatar. Similarly, if the character is part of the story and part of the the player's team, but the player doesn't control them, or can select them to control otherwise from the designated principle character, they are an NPC for the sake of this thread. Every game has a different approach so I'll just list a few tricky ones for a rough guide:

• Mass Effect -- everyone but Shepherd is an NPC
• FFIV -- Kain is a playable character
• FFVI -- Shadow is a playable character
• FFVII -- Aeris is a playable character
• FFT -- Delita is an NPC
• FFIX -- any of the members of Tantalus and Beatrix are NPCs
• FFXII -- Larsa and Vossler are NPCs

I haven't played Dragon Age but if those characters mentioned are both controlled at all times in battle and are principle characters in the story then I'd say they aren't NPCs. If they're like the characters in Mass Effect (I'm guessing they are) then I'd put them down as NPCs.

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Scepticism, that dry rot of the intellect, had not left one entire idea in his mind.

Me on the Starcraft.