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Just like the title says, this topic is all about working from home. I've found myself with a rapidly decreasing set of available employment, and as I make the transition from Active Duty to serving in the Guard (and starting college) I've found this to be a more and more realistic option.

Do any of you have any insight into this, or any experience? The economy is rough, so let's help each other out if we can.

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This is a webcomic and gaming blog where I rant about nonsense. Enjoy.

I was a soldier, now I just play one in video games.

A first important question is whether you're talking about working from home as part of an office or a company, where you'd have a boss, or starting your own business where you are your own boss.

If it's the first, I can tell you that it's a lot easier, if not the only possible way, to transition into a work-from-home role when you've had face time at a job for quite awhile first. I work from home exclusively now, but this is after working in the office in person for over three years. I know for a fact that there is a 0% chance someone could start off with the company in the role I'm in right now. Telecommuting works so well now that tons of companies will give you the option to work from home one or two times a week, but again, this is built around the fact that you'll be in the office for the rest of the time. It's really nice and saves a ton of time and money, but it does put you at a disadvantage in that you have limited face time with anyone else (including your boss) and it can be hard to ensure that you stay busy with so many other distractions surrounding you.

I don't know anything about starting your own business, but it's going to be even more self-driven for sure - you go as far as you can take yourself. I think right now it's a pretty viable way to create your own income, but at the same time you're going to need to have some kind of desirable product and business model or you'll find yourself hemorrhaging money with no chance of recovery very quickly.

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Hey, put the cellphone down for a while
In the night there is something wild
Can you hear it breathing?
And hey, put the laptop down for a while
In the night there is something wild
I feel it, it's leaving me

Well, first, I have to wonder, what circumstances make it a realistic option? From my experience, the realism of the option is based upon the vocational path ahead of you more than the other circumstances that make it hard to have a job outside the house. It seems as if you're basing this on the external, non-job factors (like school) in your post, and that makes me concerned that instead of having a job in mind, you're thinking more along the lines of "well, I'll just find some job somewhere that has me working at home."

There's no indictment there, so I hope you're not offended by me saying that. It's just a necessary prologue to my own experience, as follows.

I am currently on my second stint of working from home ~100% of the time. My first was for a year and a half in 2007 and 2008, and I've been doing it this time for almost exactly a year. The first time, I was about 3 hours via the Acela from my office; now I'm a four hour flight away, and I am typically scheduled to go back three to four times a year for a few days at a time, generally around interesting conferences or other interesting times back in Boston.

All that said, I'm not sure how much more I have to offer than what Neal has said. I will tell you the same thing I tell everyone the first time they find out that I WFH: it's not a dream come true. There are significant pros, and there are significant cons. For me, I enjoy being around the house, because I can keep up with things here better than if I'm losing ten to twelve hours a day on work and commute. It's nice to be able to have a TV on or music playing without offending my coworkers. It does save me a ton of money on commuting, too, as I gave up a twenty mile round trip plus $4 in tolls every day when I stopped going to that office (it was even better at the last job, where I gave up 50 miles and $5 a day).

That all sounds great, and it really is, but it's not the only perspective. Working from home can be isolating; I haven't made a friend other than ones my wife has made at her job since we moved, and that can really be depressing. I still get to talk to all my friends at work every day, of course, but it loses something on IM versus sharing a physical space. Additionally, I find that I'm also less of a factor at work in general. I gave up a chance at a promotion to work from home, and I know that as long as I work from home, my odds of getting a future promotion or even a significant raise are lower than if I were at the office, and I feel that my contributions and opinions are less noticed and respected now than they were when I was there every day.

As Neal says, it's really hard to find fulfilling work where you simply never have to set foot in an office. The more professional your career plans are, i.e. white-collar versus blue, the more likely that the view of your job performance will be based not just on your actual task performance but also the many unspoken traits you bring to a job - professionalism, work ethic, even your own personality. It's hard to set that up remotely without that "face time;" as an example, I will note that I got a new boss since I left my office, and it has taken me months to build up any kind of rapport with him due to the added complexity of communication that isn't face to face. And: I say all of this as someone who actually does see his entire team every day via Skype video meetings.

If you are able to work remotely for a job, 100% of the time, the biggest obstacle that you will face will be self-motivation. You can be the most motivated person in the world, and I can all but guarantee you that there will be days when you simply won't see the point of getting out of bed to do your job. You have to be able to push through that (or at least have a very generous sick time policy ) in order to be successful at working remotely. Not only do you have to be motivated, though, you will probably also find that you feel you have to perform even better than all the people still in the office in order to justify your special situation; my work hours have gotten longer in both jobs once I was outside of the office than they ever did inside the walls.

Now, of course, if you're looking at starting your own business and working out of your home, a lot of that just won't apply. However, you will find that you have to be even more motivated in that scenario, because you don't have the external motivation of a boss telling you that you're not measuring up. Everything has to come from within. I have a lot of trouble motivating myself to do my freelance work sometimes, and that's part of the reason why I have no plans of going out on my own - I don't think I can support a family on my level of motivation for doing work where I'm the only employee. But the absolute bottom line echoes what Neal said: if you don't have something that the people want, and you aren't able to get out there and show them that they want it, then you're not going to be able to make a living at it. Waiting for customers to come to you just doesn't work unless you have the most unique business plan there is.

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"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN?

A veritable wall of information, excellent. I use the term realistic in regards to myself and my situation. I don't have very many marketable skills, aside from blowing things up and shooting very accurately that is. i know it sounds as if I am selling myself short, but that is the way it is. The few additional duties I did while I served were very, very specific and just serve to further trap me in the shell I am already in. Yes, I do have OSHA certification to handle hazardous materials and I am a qualified safety inspector for hazardous materials, but knowing what I know, I do not feel very comfortable in that industry. It doesn't help that I don't have a degree either. Experience will only travel so far in the corporate world.

I suppose I should have clarified a bit, but being that it was early, my mind wasn't firing on all cylinders yet. I'm hoping to eventually start a small business. The main reason I posted this was to get some information from people that have experience working at home.

I'm not sitting here and saying I want to stuff envelopes while I go to school, this is really more of a discussion about the challenges and expectations I can face while working from home.

As far as supply and demand, I have already established a few working partnerships to distribute products from small artists and upcoming businesses. It is really less of a business and more of a facilitation hub that will allow those businesses to expand out of their current small markets and get more recognition regionally. I'm like a middle man bringing a product to a new market and hoping to establish a larger consumer base.



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This is a webcomic and gaming blog where I rant about nonsense. Enjoy.

I was a soldier, now I just play one in video games.

I have about three home based businesses though to be fair one is a hobby in addition to two failed attempts. I actually know people who make it working from home. Got some quick questions. Oh, and don't take anything I say as truth. I can only share from experience: mine and other people's.

Do you have a burning desire?
Are you coachable?
Are you willing to work?
If you answered no to any of the above, are you willing to grow as a person to the degree you'll be able to answer yes?

In reverse order:

Growing as a person: Vital. I've heard that if a 100 foot tree had the mind of a human, it would only grow ten feet tall. This is a free choice that only you can decide for yourself.

Willing to work: Regardless of which opportunity you choose to pursue, are you willing to do the business building activity? That does involve doing activity even when you don't feel like it which will happen a lot starting out. I know from experience that it's really easy to procrastinate. I'm still learning and my income reflects that situation.

Coachable: Most likely, someone will have already accomplished something similar to what you're aiming to achieve. Learn from these people; it's a lot easier than figuring everything out on your own. Are you willing to expand outside your comfort zone? Blind obedience is excessive, an open "maybe he or she knows what's they're doing/saying" will do.

Burning desire: Often this is what drives everything else. This is what keeps me in the game when the circumstances aren't going the way I'd like. If you're marketing anything, people will tell you "no", filter your calls and never return calls or disappear. Also did you know that people lie? A business partner of mine sends his mom $1500 every month to support her retirement and is the only one of four kids to do so when one mom supported four kids. Do you think he quits after a string of five rejections?

I've heard that if your desire doesn't make you cry, it's probably not strong enough. I break down from time to time and fail to do proper activity and often feel guilty over that. Won't quit though, giving my parents peace of mind and myself freedom from the tyranny of a boss is worth too much.

Lastly passion matters. People will be drawn more to the height of your enthusiasm than the depths of your knowledge.

I have a lot to share on this topic (though not all at once) and would rather take it to PM to continue.

Quote (DragonKnight Zero @ 24th March 2011 18:47)

(Truncating DKZ's post here for brevity's sake)

This is a really interesting post, and I must say first that it defines why one of my businesses has never taken off - I'm certainly comfortable enough with the tyranny of a boss that I am cool with having my current income indefinitely as opposed to starting from scratch and having no safety net, which I think would be somewhat required as per the terms of the post above. Your mileage may vary.

I will say that a "burning desire" is probably a pretty great thing, in most cases. I'm not sure I want my accountant to be passionate to the point of tears - just knowledgeable will do. (Yes, I'm using hyperbole for humor here.)

This did make me think of another anecdote that I can provide, for what it's worth. I met one of my best friends almost a decade ago when we were working for the same design studio as our first jobs out of university. I was a project manager trying to move into graphic design, and he was a guy who got the graphic design job I was angling for.

Fast forward a few years, and he's moved on to a clothing company as a catalog designer and product photographer, and then a bit later he's asked to move to Manhattan from Illinois to work at the company headquarters. A year after that, the company lays off 80% of its workforce as they changed their market, and he's back home in Illinois working for a marketing firm. Fast forward a bit more and that firm falls apart due to mismanagement and he has no choice to go out on his own.

Luckily for him, he's able to take all of his clients with him from that firm, since those clients had no place else to go. He's learning the project management side as he goes - with intermittent advice from yours truly - but having cut out all the middlemen, he's happy as can be right now.

What can you take away from that anecdote? Working for yourself, whether at home or in a proper office, is awesome. However, even if you have all the talent and even desire in the world, it's just not the easiest thing to make happen. My friend would probably be up a creek if not for the fact that he'd amassed some clients working for someone else first - most of the clients he's brought in on his own since are not exactly lucrative. In short, going out on your own is pretty awesome, but it's still not a bad idea to have a safety net around while you're kicking things off if you can manage it.

Nyte, I'd forgotten you have hazmat training. As we've spoken about before in chat, I know a little bit about that since it's what my wife's done for seven or eight years now, the shortcut to getting a degree is to keep your certifications up to date and to branch out as much as you can. My wife got her first job in safety with a degree in biology and zero experience other than lab work. Your work experience could mean more than you think, particularly if you start grabbing some certifications on the side. And, if you really want to work for yourself, consulting on safety is always a possibility, but you'd definitely need to get out there selling yourself right away. The money's good if you can get it rolling.

Finally, l have to wonder why this is not something that you want to post more about here, DKZ - you might have some things to say that are relevant to more folks than just Nyte, and I at least would be interested to hear more.



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"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN?

More on things to expect when working from home or any other venture:

There is a price to pay: Sometimes overlooked as I believe we're programmed to be numb to it sometimes. Of course, I'm referring to more than a financial price. A college degree, for example, easily involves thousands of dollars and a commitment of several years. Sure a surgical specialist commands a high salary. Said surgical specialist also spent years in med school, college, and primary and secondary schools. That's not even getting into the price on the job with regulation, hours, workplace politics, and needing to ask a boss for permission to attend to a family emergency.

Business owners have a price to pay as well. It can feel more acute when the security of a consistent paycheck is absent. Even building the business to the point where an owner doesn't need to show up to generate income takes dedication and resources. Said resources could be capital, equipment, sweat equity, time, and more; how much of what resource does vary by business.

I've heard that very successful entreprenuers fail about eight times before they hit it big. Results do vary; knowing this in advance helps out when setbacks come up.

Jobs have a more predictable payout generally but even then there's an investment prior to getting the first paycheck. Commute, sometimes clothes and/or equipment, training, meeting the prerequisites. I challenge anyone to show me a job where the only requirement to gaining employment is having a pulse

If you're starting on a new path in life be prepared for,

When starting something new one is at the lowest level of knowledge and the highest level of anxiety. Be prepared to fall of the bike if you've never ridden before and the first hit in baseball is the hardest. By gaining skill and relevant knowledge and putting things in practice, knowledge goes up and anxiety goes down as previously uncomfortable situations become familiar.

There's a book out there titled Outliers. People who are great at their craft often put in about 10,000 hours before stardom. The Beatles put in their 10,000 in clubs and practice before they it hit big. The most well known classical composers put in 10,000 hours in their instrument of choice before they become famous. If you've found something that fires you up, realize that it's practically a force in the universe that you'll reach spectacular results after putting in 10,000 productive hours into the venture.

One of my current three ventures, I'm at about 700-800 quality hours in. Yes, I have a ways to go

Responsibility: I've yet to hear of someone who achieved success and kept it without having cultivated this trait. It includes taking personal responsibility for actions, activity, and attitude among other things. I am responsible for me and what I do (e.g. body language, posture, what I'm saying and tone of voice). I am not responsible for another person's experiences which shape their mindset, which leads to their reaction (e.g. deflating at the mere mention of one of my current business ventures due to an unhappy experience with another person in the field). Even when I'm involved, how the person perceives the experience is all them.

Responsibility is seemingly more important for a business owner than an employee. I'd argue that it's beneficial for those who choose the employee path as well. If you're the boss and have someone on your staff who blames everyone and everything besides himself or herself, isn't that the first person you'd let go when things becomes tight. That's assuming you don't find something else to fire them over before then.

Law of associations: Ever heard how that pets take on the personalities of their owners. Well, people also become like the people they spend the most time around. It is said that your income (and more) will be the average of the five people you associate the most with. Humans can be skilled at mind games and hiding their true colors from each other but animals don't lie like that. Still, if your five closest friends consider money and wealth to be evil, it's extremely likely you'll have the same attitude.

If you wanted to be a professional bum, wouldn't you find another bum and do as he or she does? I imagine anyone reading this would have higher aspirations and intelligence. The point about modeling that which we wish to become still stands.

This post has been edited by DragonKnight Zero on 11th April 2011 22:50