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Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 10th November 2010 13:15)

Ahh and him complaining to barret and saying he doesn-t care about the world and only cares about money isn-t being a jerk?

Or him completely ignoring tifa and crying over aeris death not a jerk?

Aeris died and he barely knew her,and he knew tifa much longer and still didn-t go with her.

She knew him MUUUUUUCH better and still he was obsessed more with sephiroth than he was with tifa or the other.

In fact,i-d say he-s almost as bad as sephiroth himself.

And besides:The whole thing with sephiroth planning the whole thing came later and contradicts him being a victim because clearly he was a victim.

He was made by hojo and he was angry and driven crazy.

If you found out that you were experimented on and given something that can drive you insane because it is shown how hojo who is already a bit crazy injected jenova cells inside himself and it drove him even crazier,then i think it is very possible that that part certainly didn-t help to a already terrible trauma.

-Cloud was pretending to be a like a hardcore Ex- Solider and he wasn't really acting like his true identity. He was being cold hearted towards Barret because Soldier's don't really go around skipping cheerfully and sing songs. Unless they are Selphie from FF8. Cloud wanted to look cool and tough in front of others.

- He didn't really ignore Tifa, and he was rather emotional and heartbroken when Aeris died. It's actually probably the first time Cloud breaks out of his shell and shows a side that shows some warmth, meaning he cared heaps when Aeris died, and Sephiroth killed a person. Cloud never really killed anybody.

-In the end of FF7 when Cloud tells everybody to have one last moments with their friends and family, Cloud and Tifa spend time together by the Highwind airship. Cloud is supportive when Tifa opens up her emotions and he doesn't toss her aside. Even really if you make the love relationship between Cloud and Tifa low, he still doesn't ignore Tifa. He just cares more about Aeris instead.

- Tifa was too shy to open up her emotions around Cloud and she was confused because she thought she knew what happened in Nibelhiem and Cloud tells a completely different story. And Aeris has the ability to make Cloud feel more kind-hearted and have some more warmth in his heart. Tifa is just completely shy and she was just as much confused about the past as Cloud was.

- Really ? Sephiroth is manipulative and he slaughted Aeris. Cloud really, just has identity problems and wants to act cooler so others will like him more.

- Cloud wasn't made or designed by Hojo. That was a lie told by Sephiroth to make Cloud go schizophrenic and crazy so he'll summon the black materia.
Cloud being made up by Hojo was a lie, so Cloud would go psycho. See why Sephiroth is the true jerk ? Who would enjoy making somebody go crazy just so you can feel like a god ? It's selfish and arrogant.

Cefca isn't picking on you BTW. He's just confused because you are calling him a hardcore FF7 fanboy when really he enjoys other Final Fantasies.
[ :

This post has been edited by ZidaneTribal on 11th November 2010 04:23

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Currently playing Chrono Trigger !!
Currently looking forward to Don't Know.

Cefca isn't picking on you BTW. He's just confused because you are calling him a hardcore FF7 fanboy when really he enjoys other Final Fantasies.
[ : [/QUOTE]
Its just that:for me it really seems like ff6 has better character relationships.

The relationship between setzer and his tragic ship in daril-s tomb.
Cyan losing everything and after the balance returned,he had nothing to go home to.

Celes if you allow cid to die who is like a father figure to her,makes her become suicidal because its just too much.

With the loss of all her friends on the world of balance and the only person who was like a father figure to her:Cid.

I sort of understand barret though,i mean even if she is adopted,she still is his daughter.

I never liked cait sith actually.

He kind of annoys me jumping around and with that megaphone.

Its just that cefca is defending ff7 and protecting it and denying it has flaws and sugar coating it.

That is what ff7 fanboys do is it not?

The characters themselves i cannot prove are overrated because i havent played FF7 entirely in 8 years maybe?I remember a lot of details about ff7 that i honestly didnt like.

And now hes telling me:Your wrong your stupid bla bla bla.


This post has been edited by Magitek_slayer on 11th November 2010 11:24

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 10th November 2010 18:43)

Its like trying to prove an orange is better than an apple.

You're right, you're exactly right. And that is exactly what you are doing too. So why don't you just stop it? You have posted 23 times in this thread so far. Twenty-three. And in virtually all of them, you are saying the exact same thing, and that's that you hate FF7 fanboys and you don't understand why they think how they do.

Guess what? That's because they're fanboys. The more you whine about them, the more right they think they are. And the best part is, you're calling out fanboys who aren't even at this site! You talk about some fanboy apparently called "miraclekd18," who doesn't even have an account here. Why on earth should we care? We don't.

Look: some people are going to like FF6 more. Some are going to like FF7 more. Some people are going to like both equally. Every single one of them is right, and if you don't like it, don't talk to them, or leave the Final Fantasy community as a whole and just go do whatever you want to do without bothering anyone about it. The only person you have a right to talk about in terms of what game is better or worse is yourself, and you've tried to talk about that over twenty times just right here. You've even responded to posts that weren't even directed at you to argue with them!

If you haven't gotten your point across by now, you have utterly failed and it's time to stop trying. Or at least go back to yelling at people who are yelling back at you. I haven't met a single person in this thread or at CoN who is a big enough fanboy of a game to truly irritate me. So why are you trying to argue that everyone who likes FF7 at this site is one? If there's a war between FF6 fans and FF7 fans, it's not at this website, so stop trying to drag us in. Stop PMing me about why there's a war. Stop responding to every post, and stop caring so much about what everyone else thinks about FF7 OR FF6. It just doesn't matter! Talk about the games you want to talk about, because they're the series. It's not the fans that make the games.

Oh, and if I may give you a few bullet points so hopefully you can just not bother responding a twenty-fourth time to say the same thing:

• We know you're not attacking FF6.
• We know you're not attacking FF7.
• We know you only care about attacking "fanboys."
• We don't care.
• Whether you want to see it or not, being an "anti-fanboy" is just as annoying to normal people as being a fanboy.

And now that I've lost twenty minutes of my day to this, I would like to reopen the thread to people who have something new and different to say.


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"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN?

Quote (Tiddles @ 5th November 2010 20:44)

Come on now: by all means, think less of the crazed fans; by all means, make your own judgement about a game; but actually turning against a game itself because of the fanbase is something I've always found ridiculous.

I sympathise with ZidaneTribal to some extent. What Neal says is true, it is ridiculous, but I can't help feeling that it's relatively common. Even if somebody doesn't actively dislike a game they might still be less inclined to play it if the fans are annoying and for whatever reason he can't disconnect from them. Luckily I've managed to avoid the rabid fan-love that is apparently everywhere on the internet but CoN, so I still like VII as much as ever. However with some games and music/films in particular I've enjoyed playing them less depending on who likes it. Maybe it's just that I don't want to be like 'that friend of mine' that likes Halo 3. I'd like to think I'm perfect but there's no way I can avoid being somewhat swayed by what someone else thinks, although I try to be as open-minded as possible. I'm assuming this is the same with a lot of people. I'm guessing ZidaneTribal and others who've been put off by fanboys are a lot more connected to the fans and that has a gradual detrimental affect, in the same way that spending a lot of time with a guy that likes Gears 2 far too much and will refuse to play an arguably better 2 player, just once, will make anyone dislike Gears 2, regardless of how much time you actually played it.

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Scepticism, that dry rot of the intellect, had not left one entire idea in his mind.

Me on the Starcraft.

Quote (sweetdude @ 11th November 2010 19:30)

something I've always found ridiculous.[/QUOTE]
I sympathise with ZidaneTribal to some extent. What Neal says is true, it is ridiculous, but I can't help feeling that it's relatively common. Even if somebody doesn't actively dislike a game they might still be less inclined to play it if the fans are annoying and for whatever reason he can't disconnect from them. Luckily I've managed to avoid the rabid fan-love that is apparently everywhere on the internet but CoN, so I still like VII as much as ever. However with some games and music/films in particular I've enjoyed playing them less depending on who likes it.

You know what? i can understand that.
For some reason,i can get into suikoden games and even if i don't like suikoden 4 all that much,the fanboys don't drive me away from the game even further.
There is something about hype in certain games that just annoys me to the point that i don't want to play it.
I also can understand that sometimes some people think they are being original but can be a sheep.
And so far:this forum seems to have very few or no fanboys at all.

There have been misunderstandings,but they have been put aside and dealt with so far in a mature manner.


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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Everywhere I go, I hear FFVI fans talking about how the FFVII fans are ruining the fandom because they refuse to accept the possibility that it might not be "the best game ever." Before I go any further, I'd like to point out that I think they are both FANTASTIC games, and are two of the best games out there. Beyond that, I'm not talking about any few people in particular, and I'm not even talking about any one site. I understand that I'm GOING to be more likely to find someone who enjoys VI more than VII here on Caves of - you know - NARSHE, but Youtube, the Joystiq.com comment boxes, Gonintendo comment boxes, even on Harvest freaking MOON fansites, the majority seems to enjoy VI more than VII.

My question here is thus: Why is it, that if Final Fantasy VII has sold so much better than VI, has been expanded into a far larger universe, and is supposedly the game that made it "okay" to like the genre, then why does it seem so much easier to find an FFVI fan that one of number VII? And why is it that when you find an FFVI fan, they will be the first ones to tell you that they are in the minority, and that they are sick of VII fanboys? And why is it that when you DO find someone who prefers VII, they write their "Final Fantasy VII is the best game in the series I love Cloud/Tifa/Tifa's melons" comment, it's ALWAYS in grammar so atrocious only a person who wasn't alive in the 90s - the game's release era - could have written them?

I'm not trying to point fingers, and I'm not trying to offend. I just don't honestly understand this, because it just doesn't add up. I would really like it if someone could explain this to me.



...And yes, I DID just copy and paste this from the topic that just got locked. Neal said I could ask here though, so I'm pretty sure it's okay.


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"When we think there's no hope left, we keep looking until we find some!" - Claire Farron

Quote (Smash Genesis @ 13th November 2010 05:25)

My question here is thus: Why is it, that if Final Fantasy VII has sold so much better than VI, has been expanded into a far larger universe, and is supposedly the game that made it "okay" to like the genre, then why does it seem so much easier to find an FFVI fan that one of number VII? And why is it that when you find an FFVI fan, they will be the first ones to tell you that they are in the minority, and that they are sick of VII fanboys? And why is it that when you DO find someone who prefers VII, they write their "Final Fantasy VII is the best game in the series I love Cloud/Tifa/Tifa's melons" comment, it's ALWAYS in grammar so atrocious only a person who wasn't alive in the 90s - the game's release era - could have written them?

I'm not trying to point fingers, and I'm not trying to offend. I just don't honestly understand this, because it just doesn't add up. I would really like it if someone could explain this to me.



...And yes, I DID just copy and paste this from the topic that just got locked. Neal said I could ask here though, so I'm pretty sure it's okay.

Off the top of my head I would guess it's because most people like VII but don't think of it as their favourite. So it gets the most attention and a few fans of IV and VI don't like that.

This post has been edited by sweetdude on 13th November 2010 04:44

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Scepticism, that dry rot of the intellect, had not left one entire idea in his mind.

Me on the Starcraft.

Dang it, I didn't save my reply that I was making while he was locking it. Too tired, come back lata.

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Praise Be To Helix!

Quote (Smash Genesis @ 13th November 2010 04:25)

Everywhere I go, I hear FFVI fans talking about how the FFVII fans are ruining the fandom because they refuse to accept the possibility that it might not be "the best game ever." Before I go any further, I'd like to point out that I think they are both FANTASTIC games, and are two of the best games out there. Beyond that, I'm not talking about any few people in particular, and I'm not even talking about any one site. I understand that I'm GOING to be more likely to find someone who enjoys VI more than VII here on Caves of - you know - NARSHE, but Youtube, the Joystiq.com comment boxes, Gonintendo comment boxes, even on Harvest freaking MOON fansites, the majority seems to enjoy VI more than VII.

My question here is thus: Why is it, that if Final Fantasy VII has sold so much better than VI, has been expanded into a far larger universe, and is supposedly the game that made it "okay" to like the genre, then why does it seem so much easier to find an FFVI fan that one of number VII? And why is it that when you find an FFVI fan, they will be the first ones to tell you that they are in the minority, and that they are sick of VII fanboys? And why is it that when you DO find someone who prefers VII, they write their "Final Fantasy VII is the best game in the series I love Cloud/Tifa/Tifa's melons" comment, it's ALWAYS in grammar so atrocious only a person who wasn't alive in the 90s - the game's release era - could have written them?

I'm not trying to point fingers, and I'm not trying to offend. I just don't honestly understand this, because it just doesn't add up. I would really like it if someone could explain this to me.



...And yes, I DID just copy and paste this from the topic that just got locked. Neal said I could ask here though, so I'm pretty sure it's okay.

I find your generalizations a little offensive.

Ok so i don't love ff7,but i have friends who do and they genuinely seem to like the game for what it is.


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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

As a VI fan, I don't feel that I'm in the minority any longer, to be honest. I've mentioned it here before, but there's an interesting seachange that's been going on among Final Fantasy 'elitists' for quite some time; 10 years ago, everyone loved VII. It was huge and beloved, and though there were detractors, they were in the very, very small minority. 5 years ago that all changed, the backlash was huge and righteous, and people fell upon VII like a common dog. The new champion was VI, long an unsung champion, a game that had its thunder stolen by VII and many people feel it was time for a day in the sun. But as I've been seeing recently, no day lasts forever. Look around, Smash, maybe a bit deeper than you are now, and you'll see that the same negative things you say people think about VII, they're beginning to say about VI as well. In fact, this thread is proof that no game is resistant to fanboyism, as loath as I am to use that word. And little by little, VI is failing the same way VII did, and a new game is starting to become 'the cool game to like', that being IX, a game that, when it came out, I swear no one cared about.

Basically, it's all just time and tide. I don't think VII fans are all illiterate 10 year olds, but the 'expanded universe' you mentioned certainly panders to that crowd, a group of games and a movie that seemed designed to be brainless explosions of action, which is odd coming from a company that was so invested in plot. I wouldn't be surprised if Squeenix gave the same treatment to VI sometime soon, making some PSP action game for it or something.

But I'm not here to hate on the VII expanded universe. What it comes down to is overexposure. VII, by nature of it bringing an abrupt change to the nature of video games (which it did) was overexposed nearly instantly. Old fans thought it was too flashy, and new fans wanted to see what other games there were in the series. So they flocked to VI, and, whether deserved or not, VI has started getting serious accolades. And now it's also getting overexposed. It doesn't bother me either way, I like both games. I've always liked VI more, but I think that if you approach VII from the right standpoint, it's got a pretty good plot hidden away in there as well. So don't let it bother you, I guess; if you like VII you shouldn't be paying attention to what other people say about it anyway. Soon us VI fans will need to be telling ourselves the same thing when the leagues of gamers look at US with disdain, too.

And in closing...'Cloud/Tifa/Tifa's melons'...heh heh...that's pretty good.

This post has been edited by trismegistus on 13th November 2010 17:37

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"If art doesn't risk upsetting expectations and challenging its audience, it can only stagnate."

Quote (trismegistus @ 13th November 2010 17:36)

Soon us VI fans will need to be telling ourselves the same thing when the leagues of gamers look at US with disdain, too.

And in closing...'Cloud/Tifa/Tifa's melons'...heh heh...that's pretty good.

Disdain for ff7? are you nuts? go anywhere in google or youtube and tell me you don't find at least 5 people praising ff7.

There are literally more ff7 and ff6 fans than ff4 ff9 and FFX fans put together.

If ff7 gets any sort of bad reputation,at least a certain amount of bad rep is deserved.

If ff6 gets a bad rep,this bad rep will also be deserved for trying to hog the series.




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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Quote (trismegistus @ 13th November 2010 18:36)

And little by little, VI is failing the same way VII did, and a new game is starting to become 'the cool game to like', that being IX, a game that, when it came out, I swear no one cared about.

I don't think there are any games in the series like VI and VII. IX is more like IV, it's good and it has its fans, but people will not play it as readily as the other two. I remember reading that people didn't like IX's opera-like aesthetic and didn't like Zidane in particular as a main character. I understand why you'd think no one cared about IX when it came out, but at that time it was still in the shadow of VI and VII, and it had very few secrets and sidequests for people to go on the internet and discuss, so it makes sense that people weren't talking about it as much. I can't be sure if it won't go the same way as VII I just think it's very unlikely.

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Scepticism, that dry rot of the intellect, had not left one entire idea in his mind.

Me on the Starcraft.

Quote (sweetdude @ 14th November 2010 00:09)

I don't think there are any games in the series like VI and VII.

Oh sure. In fact, when it comes down to cross-genre appeal, I don't even think that VI is in the same league as VII, which really is the RPG that non-RPG fans will remember. I just meant around dedicated RPG fans, IX has been getting a lot of love recently, and VI has been getting a lot less, and that among the hardcore RPG fans I rarely hear much about VII these days. I can't predict the future, so I don't know if IX's getting its renaissance, but even just looking around this forum, you can see that there's a lot of people looking at IX in a very positive light.

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"If art doesn't risk upsetting expectations and challenging its audience, it can only stagnate."

Though I think that people are starting to like IX because people who were born in the '90s grew up with the game, just like people grew up with VII. There's a theory that your favourite Final Fantasy will be your first one. Nostalgic memories and everything. Also back in '01 they would of been too young to go on a computer and online to express their love for the game. They would of been like six or seven years old.

Also feel like Final Fantasy V is getting more love too. It's strange that Final Fantasy II is still getting ignored and disliked though.

The VI versus VII. I think that people are starting to notice that VI is a pretty brilliant Final Fantasy, and alot of fans have had in their minds that Final Fantasy VII is the best Final Fantasy so it creates agurements. Also the Kefka vs Sephiroth debate doesn't really help. Final Fantasy VI used to be my least favourite Final Fantasy, until I went here and saw everybody's comments. I thought that you were all crazy. But I looked passed the graphics and saw a magical game with many great characters. Maybe fans are beginning to look past the aged graphics and see something rather wonderful ?

About VII. I'll ignore the fans and just look at the game as a whole like people have adviced. Thankyou for the help on that.* Smiles.*




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Currently playing Chrono Trigger !!
Currently looking forward to Don't Know.

Quote (ZidaneTribal @ 14th November 2010 10:07)

The VI versus VII. I think that people are starting to notice that VI is a pretty brilliant Final Fantasy, and alot of fans have had in their minds that Final Fantasy VII is the best Final Fantasy so it creates agurements. Also the Kefka vs Sephiroth debate doesn't really help. Final Fantasy VI used to be my least favourite Final Fantasy, until I went here and saw everybody's comments.

Perhaps it really is what my mom said:

My mom when i talked to her and asked her how to know if something is good is,how long it will last.

If something is good,it will never get old and stay a classic,if its not good,it will be forgotten.

I don't think ff7 is being forgotten so perhaps its good enough to last the test of time or,perhaps it is declining as people said because it has a lot of undeserving fame.


We shall see how long it lasts,

As for ff2 nes:

I don't absolutely hate it,but i don't love it.

The game play can be seriously annoying and for me this really is not a good thing.

I got a huge amount of patience for games i end up liking and it shows with games like ultima 3 and ultima underworld.

I think mainly the reason people dislike ff2 on the nes so much,is because of its game play.


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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

What a nice thread!

Interesting is that I bought yesterday FF VII from the PS store, willing to play it a second time, with a open mind. This game was my second FF.

I really liked the first time, but soon after advent children came out, and then those "filler" games that wanted to make money filling every single minute of possible plot with a whole new story, and I fell to the antifanboyism.

But things should be like it was already said here: ignore the fanboys, let them like or dislike whatever, it's their right, anyway... If you think that all the hype and praise FF VII (or any other media franchise) has been receiveing is killing it, just play the game as it is and stay away form the flamewars in the internet, or any other place.

I say that because my favorite game franchise is usually one acused of being fanboy supported, which is Metal Gear. You know what's great? I never agued about it with anyone, I played the games, liked it, explored the plot in the wikipedia, and that's it.




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Live Long and Prosper!

I'm so sick of people whining about Final Fantasy VII being overrated. I like to spontaneously lump the whiners with those praising this game like it's a "god" or something. Give me a break. Enough with the bullcrap already. Sure, this game has its obvious flaws no doubt, but that doesn't stop me from playing it and enjoying it. To this day, I still think that Final Fantasy VII is a damn good game. However, if you don't like the game, don't play it... Better yet, don't even talk about it! Seriously, I get sick of people ALWAYS whining over this game being overrated and all the stupid sequels SquareEnix (nowadays a 100% legit crap company) has produced to milk the hungry fanboys's wallets and fuel the fire of the whiners (who are no better than the fanboys).

Final Fantasy VII came out in like what? 1997? It's 2010 going to 2011 and there is still a plethora of people crying their little panties over an ancient game's popularity status? Jesus H. Christ... Spare me the grief.

P.S. Just to piss people off: Final Fantasy VII is a much more entertaining game than Final Fantasy VI.

I agree that the game, like most games has its good points and bad points.

The "it's overrated" people usually have two things in mind when saying this: (1) hype backlash, and (2) Sephiroth and Cloud fanboys who don't know when to shut up.

As for whether FF6 or FF7 is better, I'd say that depends on what you like about the games, and what you want from your stories and gameplay and such. I prefer FF6 somewhat because I think the action's faster, there are fewer animations that I have to sit through, and there are fewer minigames to distract me from feeling immersed in the game.

That said, if you're an FF7 fan...head on over to the music contest in this forum, and vote for Aeris's theme! I can't really give numbers, but I'll say that it might lose if you don't vote for it! And it's too beautiful and touching of a track to lose in just the first round!

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Check the "What games are you playing at the moment?" thread for updates on what I've been playing.

You can find me on the Fediverse! I use Mastodon, where I am @[email protected] ( https://sakurajima.moe/@glennmagusharvey )

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Final Fantasy VII came out in like what? 1997? It's 2010 going to 2011 and there is still a plethora of people crying their little panties over an ancient game's popularity status? Jesus H. Christ... Spare me the grief.

Excellent point, these fanboys are so—

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Final Fantasy VII is a much more entertaining game than Final Fantasy VI.

...

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"Some fight for justice. Some fight for law . . .
. . .Cecil, what will you fight for?"
~KluYa

Quote (Miss Ronin @ 29th November 2010 13:44)

Quote

Final Fantasy VII came out in like what? 1997? It's 2010 going to 2011 and there is still a plethora of people crying their little panties over an ancient game's popularity status? Jesus H. Christ... Spare me the grief.

Excellent point, these fanboys are so—

Quote

Final Fantasy VII is a much more entertaining game than Final Fantasy VI.

...

Ha ha!

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"If art doesn't risk upsetting expectations and challenging its audience, it can only stagnate."

Quote (Glenn Magus Harvey @ 29th November 2010 13:10)

The "it's overrated" people usually have two things in mind when saying this: (1) hype backlash, and (2) Sephiroth and Cloud fanboys who don't know when to shut up.

Good point, and notice that neither point has a thing to do with the game's quality. If you are going to criticize the game, criticize the game. Advent Children doesn't have anything to do with it.

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Praise Be To Helix!

Well, that's debatable, whether Advent Children has anything to do with it. Because if you disagree with plot or characterization items introduced in AC (or any other spinoff), and those items are relevant to your understanding of the original game...yeah.

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Check the "What games are you playing at the moment?" thread for updates on what I've been playing.

You can find me on the Fediverse! I use Mastodon, where I am @[email protected] ( https://sakurajima.moe/@glennmagusharvey )