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Quote (St Khael @ 26th September 2012 14:22)

I had it on the Xbox 360. I've heard good things about Dragon Age: Origins and I have it around here somewhere for my computer, but I haven't popped it into the disc drive yet. I've been more into Starcraft and Guild Wars as of late, but Origins is next on my list.

Play more Starcraft. It's good for your soul.

I really liked the Max Payne series as a whole and I feel like the third one, while fun, just isn't a true Max Payne game. It's almost funny how bad Max's day to day life is, and while that's been true in every incarnation, this one just feels like its being done for the sake of it. Literally every bridge he steps on breaks. Every building he enters is blown up or burnt down. Every character he interacts with either dies, betrays him or both. Sometimes, even in that order.

3 just feels like a game giving a polite nod to the original, and then going off and doing its own thing. Also, the whole control scheme being designed predominantly for a console controller is absolutely frustrating and you feel it with every clumsy movement Max makes. And, God help you should you wander into the online multi-player where the auto-aim feature remains completely intact and essentially does the work for you.

I still think Bullet-time is cool.

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Okay, but there was a goat!

Quote (BlitzSage @ 26th September 2012 15:16)

Btw, I personally don't think FFVII is overrated anymore. There comes a point when so many people say it's overrated, that it's no longer unpopular to say it's overrated. In fact, I think that the oppisite is now true. I think FFVII is underrated now.

Totally agree. I see similar situations happen in sports all the time, and weirdly the reverse can also be true - everyone called Ben Wallace underrated for so long that he became overrated, and Chicago busted the bank to sign him in 2006 for $60 million over four years. Wallace put up weak numbers, played subpar defense, and only lasted two years before the Bulls got rid of him. The point is that Underrated and Overrated can be useful descriptors, but sometimes they can change perception of something so much that everyone forgets the truth of the matter.

My favorite gaming example is probably Legend of Dragoon for the PS1. LoD is not a great game (more on this in a sec), and had mixed reactions from critics when it came out (78% on GR, with scores ranging between 5.5 and 10.0, several of those scores coming years later). RPG fans LOVE to call LoD an underrated RPG, mostly because they want to talk up PS1 RPGs made by someone other than Square. It's been like that for so long that the game has (IMO, of course) become incredibly overrated. It's hard to love a game where every move other than using a healing item takes 20-30 seconds to perform (often with timed button presses) and has way too many goddamn random battles in its long dungeon slogs and bat****-crazy narrative. The game should be 25 hours long, but the wasted time for fights make it last closer to 60 hours. It has some nice visuals for the year 2000 and a few interesting characters, but Legend of Dragoon is not a superior RPG. Everyone calls LoD underrated, but it's overrated.

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this is a blog mostly about comics and videogames
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Quote (laszlow @ 27th September 2012 22:39)

Quote (BlitzSage @ 26th September 2012 15:16)

Btw, I personally don't think FFVII is overrated anymore. There comes a point when so many people say it's overrated, that it's no longer unpopular to say it's overrated. In fact, I think that the oppisite is now true. I think FFVII is underrated now.

Totally agree. I see similar situations happen in sports all the time, and weirdly the reverse can also be true - everyone called Ben Wallace underrated for so long that he became overrated, and Chicago busted the bank to sign him in 2006 for $60 million over four years. Wallace put up weak numbers, played subpar defense, and only lasted two years before the Bulls got rid of him. The point is that Underrated and Overrated can be useful descriptors, but sometimes they can change perception of something so much that everyone forgets the truth of the matter.

My favorite gaming example is probably Legend of Dragoon for the PS1. LoD is not a great game (more on this in a sec), and had mixed reactions from critics when it came out (78% on GR, with scores ranging between 5.5 and 10.0, several of those scores coming years later). RPG fans LOVE to call LoD an underrated RPG, mostly because they want to talk up PS1 RPGs made by someone other than Square. It's been like that for so long that the game has (IMO, of course) become incredibly overrated. It's hard to love a game where every move other than using a healing item takes 20-30 seconds to perform (often with timed button presses) and has way too many goddamn random battles in its long dungeon slogs and bat****-crazy narrative. The game should be 25 hours long, but the wasted time for fights make it last closer to 60 hours. It has some nice visuals for the year 2000 and a few interesting characters, but Legend of Dragoon is not a superior RPG. Everyone calls LoD underrated, but it's overrated.

(Funny thing, I just had a friend try to get me into LoD, and I also saw it on IGN's list too, so I'd guess that you're right).

I think that it's well-intentioned, at first at least. In Legend of Dragoon's case, calling it underrated was another way of saying, "Square's not the only company making RPGs. Don't just try whatever's popular." That's good and all, but then the myth builds as devoted fans keep hyping it, and suddenly it goes too far.

The same goes in reverse for Final Fantasy VII. Originally, calling it overrated was another way of stating that it wasn't the only JRPG that has ever been made. So, okay, at first the "FFVII is overrated" movement had some merit. But then it went over the top, got out of hand. It's funny that people don't use the word bad, they use overrated. Can anyone honestly say it's a bad game? I don't really think so. It certainly isn't what you just described with Legend of Dragoon, which sounds nearly broken to me. Now, if people call it the greatest game ever created, that may be stretching it.

(I hope Ben Wallace doesn't read these forums. He may not be the best player in the NBA, but I wouldn't want him to know my address if he's angry.)

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Praise Be To Helix!

Ha, don't fret about the Ben Wallace thing. I'm pretty sure I ganked that overrated/underrated Wallace opinion from a Bill Simmons article circa 2008, and sports forums are probably the most awful, hateful, vitriolic internet spots I've ever heard of, barring cluster****s like 4chan or actual unironic hate groups.

I was using LoD an example for a "reverse FF VII" where underrated becomes overrated but I guess I didn't make that clear in my ramblings. I think we basically agree with each other - I just worded things confusingly.

The weirdest thing is that I've finished LoD and liked it when I first tried it (I was in high school, so probably around 10 years ago). Every attack is a rhythm-game-esque series of timed button presses, which is cool for awhile but gets old fast. I would get alternately frustrated and enthralled by it, but it took me nearly a year to get through (dropped it and picked it up again multiple times) and after I finally got to the end, I saw the 70+ hours on the play clock and decided that this game was too long, too slow, and often not fun. I will never replay it.



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this is a blog mostly about comics and videogames
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Quote (laszlow @ 28th September 2012 00:01)

Ha, don't fret about the Ben Wallace thing. I'm pretty sure I ganked that overrated/underrated Wallace opinion from a Bill Simmons article circa 2008, and sports forums are probably the most awful, hateful, vitriolic internet spots I've ever heard of, barring cluster****s like 4chan or actual unironic hate groups.

I was using LoD an example for a "reverse FF VII" where underrated becomes overrated but I guess I didn't make that clear in my ramblings. I think we basically agree with each other - I just worded things confusingly.

The weirdest thing is that I've finished LoD and liked it when I first tried it (I was in high school, so probably around 10 years ago). Every attack is a rhythm-game-esque series of timed button presses, which is cool for awhile but gets old fast. I would get alternately frustrated and enthralled by it, but it took me nearly a year to get through (dropped it and picked it up again multiple times) and after I finally got to the end, I saw the 70+ hours on the play clock and decided that this game was too long, too slow, and often not fun. I will never replay it.

(Sports fans can be hateful. Who knew!?)

No, it was my fault. I actually just talked to my friend during class about it. I brought up some of your complaints about LoD, and he said that he basically agreed but he loved it despite (or because of) those faults. I'm sure that some people may like something like that, despite its flaws, but I don't that FFVII has those types of problems. Then again, that may now be unpopular.

I'm just wondering, IGN put FFVII at #11 on its top RPGs list. Do people agree with that These days. I mean, at one point VII could be easily placed at the top of that list (maybe about 10-5 years ago). Do people consider IGN's placement unpopular now? Do you think people believe it's higher or lower than 11th?

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Praise Be To Helix!

Quote (BlitzSage @ 26th September 2012 15:16)

I think FFVII is underrated now.

Rofl, still not anywhere close.

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I fear my heart and fear my soul
Life goes on, it surely will,
Without me and I wonder:
Will I ever see light again?

Life goes on...

Quote (Sherick @ 29th September 2012 20:28)

Quote (BlitzSage @ 26th September 2012 15:16)

I think FFVII is underrated now.

Rofl, still not anywhere close.

Okay, but doesn't that prove my point? Three people have now come on this "unpopular" forum and said the same thing, just counting the last two pages. That kind of frequency doesn't make it seem like saying that is an unpopular opinion anymore.

Let me ask you this: do you think people are overrating it by saying it's one of the best games of all time, or when people even say it's good.

In other words, do you think that it's not a "top" game, or that it's not even a good game?

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Praise Be To Helix!

I think that whole discussion should be put to bed as it detracts from the quality of the game itself, which definitely exists.

This post has been edited by Blinge Odonata on 30th September 2012 09:35

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www.youtube.com/blinje
The victor sacrificed the vanquished to the heavens

FF7 was and still overrated by the fans, but i see lots of love for 6 nowadays.


I think what really gets to me, is that i think its a good game, but not the best.I find that books tend to have better stories, so i tend to go for gameplay in rpgs, but i sometimes enjoy the story too.A lot of the later games after 7 recycle the same stuff in the final fantasy series.

10 was ok.Good gameplay, and the story had its moments, but the old games seemed to still have charm.

FF7 is still occasionally overrated by square enix for plastering cloud and sephiroth, and the subject on calling ff7 overrated gets overrated.The most overrated thing about ff7, are its fans.you find countless sephiroths and clouds through the internet.I have yet to see a zidane or squall.Second most overrated thing about ff7 is by square enix for the fanservice, and countless sequels and prequels.are any of them good? i dunno.Crisis core gets trashed, and dirge of cerberus has been really been trash talked.I also heard the whole emo thing? came from advent children.I never saw it cause i'm not a fan.

About my unpopular opinion:I liked squall more than cloud, and i can't stand quina from ff9.
I also didn't care that much for amarant.

Other unpopular opinions:I liked oblivion.While it undoubtedly has flaws, the assasins guild, and thieves guild are fun quests.I also really liked the madgod quest.

More opinions:I don't see what the big deal is with mass effect 2.I played the demo, and it plays a lot like a tps.

This post has been edited by Magitek_slayer on 30th September 2012 10:20

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 30th September 2012 10:18)

Other unpopular opinions:I liked oblivion.While it undoubtedly has flaws, the assasins guild, and thieves guild are fun quests.I also really liked the madgod quest.

Whoa, whoa.. that's far from unpopular

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www.youtube.com/blinje
The victor sacrificed the vanquished to the heavens

I see a lot of people bash oblivion.

I can understand some of it, but not all of it.Also:How much is skyrim going for in the us? Here in spain, i saw it going for 80 euros.

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Skyrim costs $60 in the United States, or around 46 or 47 euros. Games are always more expensive in Europe or Asia.

I'll avoiding continuing the talk about what's overrated and underrated, but do you know what's ****ing terrible? Every Resident Evil game other than 4. The early ones are boxy 3rd-person tank shooter games and the more recent ones are either crappy rail shooters or subpar 3rd-person action shooters. Resident Evil 4 is good. Every other Resident Evil is not worth playing.

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this is a blog mostly about comics and videogames
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I disagree. Resident Evil 4 is when the series started to die in my mind. Turned the game into what every other game today is, a stupid action cliche adventure with absloutly nothing to do with its predecessors other than the main characters name. all the horror was sucked outta the series with this installment. its a fun game, but doesnt deserve the resident evil title. in fact if it had been named anything else id love it.

How about......... Action Hero 1?

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The Bird of Hermes is my name, Eating my Wings to keep me tame...

Quote (omnislash5209 @ 30th September 2012 21:11)

in fact if it had been named anything else id love it.

How about......... Action Hero 1?

A bad game by any other name would still play just as crap.

It failed for the same exact same reasons RE5 failed (as a game at least): it was a third person shooter using out-dated survival horror mechanics. This makes sense considering they were both the exact same game.

As for the supposedly fluctuating value of FFVII, it's actually not that complicated. Outside of any current hipster context, FFVII has always been an impressively produced RPG with solid, polished mechanics, coated in a terrible story with insufferable characters.

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Arts

Farts

Twarts

Quote (omnislash5209 @ 1st October 2012 04:11)

I disagree. Resident Evil 4 is when the series started to die in my mind. Turned the game into what every other game today is, a stupid action cliche adventure with absloutly nothing to do with its predecessors other than the main characters name. all the horror was sucked outta the series with this installment. its a fun game, but doesnt deserve the resident evil title. in fact if it had been named anything else id love it.

How about......... Action Hero 1?

I liked Resident evil 4 more than 5 in some ways, and 5 more than 4 in other ways.

Resident evil 5 is more tolerable in co op mode.Co op can be fun, but i'm not a tps fan.Resident evil 5 also has better mercenaries mode, and sheva is far less annoying than ashley graham.

4 has cheesy moments like 5, but less than 5, and i like leon as a character.Overall:4 is a little closer to survival horror than 5, and you have a few moments, but less than previous games.

Also:I have a few complaints about lost oddysey.
All characters end up more or less the same, because they can all be wizards.

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

The scene where kaims daughter dies of the moment you meet her, and all the kids and kaim cry, is really cheesy.Also:I why is she living in a cemetery?

This post has been edited by Magitek_slayer on 1st October 2012 08:48

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Quote (laszlow @ 1st October 2012 01:15)

do you know what's ****ing terrible?  Every Resident Evil game other than 4.  The early ones are boxy 3rd-person tank shooter games

I want to lock you in the Spencer mansion.

The term 'shooter' can't be applied to the early Resi forumula whatsoever!
congrats, you really got me with this one..

Edit: Now I'm awaiting the response 'well you use guns therefore it's a shooter'

This post has been edited by Blinge Odonata on 1st October 2012 09:02

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www.youtube.com/blinje
The victor sacrificed the vanquished to the heavens

Blinge did you play the remake of resident evil 1? I heard that its better than the original resident evil 1.

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Well, this is just a general opinion, not really just on games, but I hate space sci-fi and won't play anything with it. The closest I come is Star Ocean 2, and Metroid. Get out of here, Mass Effect, and Star Ocean 3 which travels in space ships a lot.


Idk why, but space stresses me out. There's no oxygen!! Plus, I grew up with Star Trek episodes on a lot, and it all seems so cheesy when they say things like "Warp speed ahead!"

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You're telling me that there's no hope.

I'm telling you you're wrong.

Quote (Narratorway @ 1st October 2012 04:08)

It failed for the same exact same reasons RE5 failed (as a game at least): it was a third person shooter using out-dated survival horror mechanics. This makes sense considering they were both the exact same game.

As for the supposedly fluctuating value of FFVII, it's actually not that complicated. Outside of any current hipster context, FFVII has always been an impressively produced RPG with solid, polished mechanics, coated in a terrible story with insufferable characters.

RE5 failed because it was racist.

FFVII has a confusing story. Well, it's not necessarily confusing, but it was strange and wasn't executed well near the end. There were too many strange turns and twists and most were right near the end. But I would say that what makes it work is its charm. And that would include the characters as well as the game's style.

@Magitek: Yes, definitely. The remake is much better. I would agree that the original RE1 is terrible (may be a "fun" terrible?), but the remake is better.



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Praise Be To Helix!

I'm not so sure about the racism part.Sure, the tribal bikini part was a bit much, but a lot has to do with it being a linear tps, which no longer everesembles resident evil.Ever since re4, the games resemble a (insert famous tps here).It wasn't till the end of re5 that it started to feel resident evilish.I like chris as a character, but its no longer resident evil.It was also a good thing wesker was killed off, because he became a bit cliché.He is cool, but best in re1 remake, and code veronica x.He did have good dialogue, but it would only degrade his character, till he became just cliché.

FF7 has been overrated, and still is, but i think final fantasy in general has become overrated.I was watching dissidia duodecim, and i didn't like the kefka dialogue at all, or the green outfit he had.I like kain though.

I also prefer the original voice for jecht.I felt that the original voice actor did more justice to jecht than the guy in duodecim.I also prefer the original dialogue from dissidia for jecht and kefka over duodecim.

Did anyone dislike duodecim dialogue? i didn't even like gilgamesh dialogue, and i normally like him.

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

How does Dissidia condemn all of Final Fantasy? Do you mean that the franchise in its current state is overrated? Or do you think that FFIV, VI, VII, etc. are overrated?

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Praise Be To Helix!

Quote (Blinge Odonata @ 1st October 2012 03:42)

Quote (laszlow @ 1st October 2012 01:15)

do you know what's ****ing terrible?  Every Resident Evil game other than 4.  The early ones are boxy 3rd-person tank shooter games

I want to lock you in the Spencer mansion.

The term 'shooter' can't be applied to the early Resi forumula whatsoever!
congrats, you really got me with this one..

Edit: Now I'm awaiting the response 'well you use guns therefore it's a shooter'

Yeah, I guess it isn't a proper shooter. The early Resident Evil games are too awkward, clumsy, and lacking a decent control system to be called a shooter.

Look, in the early days of the PlayStation, I thought the Resident Evil games were pretty awful - their visuals were ugly early polygons, their writing and voice work were laughably bad, their controls were horrible, and their scares were just jump-through-the-walls gotcha! moments. I guess it's a breakthrough survival-horror game if mastering those wonky controls counts as "survival" and yelping at amateurish haunted house scares counts as "horror".

Resident Evil 4 basically cut the crap and went the route of an exciting, tense third-person shooter using Resident Evil character and monster designs and was an excellent game. It still would've been excellent if they had changed the name to "Leon Kennedy vs. Infected Europeans" but I don't have any qualms calling it Resident Evil. And remember - the first Devil May Cry game was originally in development as Resident Evil 4, but it went in such a crazy direction that they decided to make a new series for it. Capcom reeled it in a bit for RE4 and I think it worked out pretty well.

And BlitzSage, I'm not a big fan of Resident Evil 5, but it's not racist so much as *very* misguided. If you have a game set in Africa, of course it will have native Africans in it. Somehow, it didn't register with the developers that a game with a white guy and a black woman with vaguely Asian features murdering black African zombies and infested villagers could be construed as racist. Turns out it totally seems racist, but ultimately isn't. I'm not defending RE5, and it is totally full of suspect imagery, but I'm attributing it to a lack of understanding instead of real racism.

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this is a blog mostly about comics and videogames
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I mean the franchise is overrated, and the series final fantasy.I honestly don't find as much quality as before, and by before, i mean before certain people left square enix.For me, the 90s were great for square.Square tried too hard to make a game to satisfy all masses, and in the process, we get games that could be better.Then you got what's his name who wants to be a movie director.I found that ff7 and 9 and x at least satisfied some people, while FFXIII is an abomination,.I'm talking about the original, not those sequels and prequels of ff7.It seemed overkill how square enix exploited it, and i hear bad things about the kh series, but i don't know.I think part of it is square part makes too many games with similar stories and characters are the same.FFXIII didn't present any characters i haven't seen before, and while there may be minor improvements(I prefer sazh over barret) the rest seemed forgetable.I didn't find FFX that memorable.We need something fresh.

And laszlow:Re1 had better atmosphere.Even code veronica had better atmosphere.It was the setting, and the music combined with those reading moments.Sure, the dialogue was cheesy, but later games abandoned that for more action and less scares.RE4, and Re5 could have been scarier than previous games with less action and more running.

This post has been edited by Magitek_slayer on 1st October 2012 17:11

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Quote (BlitzSage @ 1st October 2012 07:30)

Quote (Narratorway @ 1st October 2012 04:08)

It failed for the same exact same reasons RE5 failed (as a game at least): it was a third person shooter using out-dated survival horror mechanics.  This makes sense considering they were both the exact same game.

RE5 failed because it was racist.

Gots'ta read da text man.

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Arts

Farts

Twarts

Quote (laszlow @ 1st October 2012 16:38)

Yeah, I guess it isn't a proper shooter.  The early Resident Evil games are too awkward, clumsy, and lacking a decent control system to be called a shooter. 

Look, in the early days of the PlayStation, I thought the Resident Evil games were pretty awful - their visuals were ugly early polygons, their writing and voice work were laughably bad, their controls were horrible, and their scares were just jump-through-the-walls gotcha! moments.  I guess it's a breakthrough survival-horror game if mastering those wonky controls counts as "survival" and yelping at amateurish haunted house scares counts as "horror".

No, it didn't 'fail' to be a shooter. The genre is survival horror, The clunky controls are designed to make the player feel vulnerable, and it works. You think a company like Capcom would allow a game to be released with such controls if it was trying to be a 3rd person shooter? I highly doubt it.

The visuals? because of the fixed camera angles most of the backgrounds/rooms were pre-rendered allowing them to avoid the ugly early polygons.. so your point only applies to the moving entities, and sure.. they're ugly but it was an early psx game so what do you expect.

Yeah the voice acting was terrible, the story was mediocre at best.. but the storytelling outside of cutscenes - ie through objects/lore the player interacts with was well done and added to the atmosphere.

Unfortunately, I'm defending games I haven't really played:other than a few hours of #2, my Resident Evil experience was the Gamecube remake of the 1st game, that Magitek mentions above. It is the same game but with ramped up graphics and harder enemies, a few tweaks to the combat but that deliberate clunkiness remains. It terrified me, the game had such an oppressive atmosphere that I found it difficult to carry on playing at some points, possibly because I insisted on playing at 2am in the dark, it was far more than jump-scares. So I can't really speak for the atmosphere of the original Resi games I suppose..

I don't know man, obviously I can't convince someone who doesn't like the series but it seems like you're approaching it the wrong way and should maybe give it another chance. Although if the genre's not for you, its not for you.

ps. Yeah.. whoever made this thread wanted us all at each others throats I'll bet

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www.youtube.com/blinje
The victor sacrificed the vanquished to the heavens

Oh, I'm aware of how survival horror works; you don't need to do any explaining. And I'm not at anyone's throat, either. I just don't care for survivor horror in general and Resident Evil in particular. It's sluggish and awkward to control, and doesn't make up for the poor gameplay with compelling narrative or atmosphere. It's a game that has its characters lurch around like a Katamari on roofies while trying to make its players jump at loud noises. I was always surprised that the first three RE games had such a loyal following.

This post has been edited by laszlow on 2nd October 2012 00:15

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this is a blog mostly about comics and videogames
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Quote (Narratorway @ 1st October 2012 13:46)

Quote (BlitzSage @ 1st October 2012 07:30)

Quote (Narratorway @ 1st October 2012 04:08)

It failed for the same exact same reasons RE5 failed (as a game at least): it was a third person shooter using out-dated survival horror mechanics.  This makes sense considering they were both the exact same game.

RE5 failed because it was racist.

Gots'ta read da text man.

Oh, lol. Sry.

@lazslow. I've never liked playing survival horror games. I like watching other people play them, and figuring out the puzzles. When my friend made me play the first part of Silent Hill 2, it was probably the dumbest looking thing you've ever seen, and I only got to the first enemy. But idk, games from that era have this charm to them. And I've always liked the atmosphere RE creates. I think that's why people love them so much.

Edit

Just noticed: it's weird that people who haven't played the games all the way through are defending it.

This post has been edited by BlitzSage on 2nd October 2012 01:32

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Praise Be To Helix!

Quote (Blinge Odonata @ 1st October 2012 15:51)

No, it didn't 'fail' to be a shooter. The genre is survival horror, The clunky controls are designed to make the player feel vulnerable, and it works. You think a company like Capcom would allow a game to be released with such controls if it was trying to be a 3rd person shooter? I highly doubt it.

Really? People are still making the 'no, no see, it's bad...on purpose' argument?

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Arts

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Twarts

I have beaten all resident evil games so far, except 0, and i don't even own it.

I have every right to speak about re1-5



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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Quote (Narratorway @ 2nd October 2012 07:32)

Quote (Blinge Odonata @ 1st October 2012 15:51)

No, it didn't 'fail' to be a shooter. The genre is survival horror, The clunky controls are designed to make the player feel vulnerable, and it works. You think a company like Capcom would allow a game to be released with such controls if it was trying to be a 3rd person shooter? I highly doubt it.

Really? People are still making the 'no, no see, it's bad...on purpose' argument?

Hilarious, you totally tore my point apart there, so witty.
Do you actually like any games that aren't Half Life or FF6?

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www.youtube.com/blinje
The victor sacrificed the vanquished to the heavens