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If Tryscal is right, they are nothing but useless toys with no artistic value anyways.

Thanks, but I never implied that. Care to try again, pal? Honestly, have you even read my post?

This post has been edited by Tryscal The Great on 28th September 2010 02:59

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//www.rpgmaker.net/
We make games. Period.

Quote (BlitzSage @ 27th September 2010 21:37)

Well, the turn-based RPG form has always been more story-based, through a de-emphasis on challenge. You know from the moment that you turn on one of the games, that you're going to beat it. That existed well before the sci-fi anime shift in style.

But, none of that matters, and it doesn't matter what you say about the eras. If Tryscal is right, they are nothing but useless toys with no artistic value anyways. Honestly, if that is true, then how have the FF games declined? They've definitely become "prettier" and "cooler." What does it matter that the modern era FF's have weak character development? That's clearly not important.

.... And that's how we got Leona Lewis doing the theme song. Next game, I'm sure we'll have Paris Hilton as the main character. What's more mindless than that?

just because something is a turn based rpg, doesnt mean the ride will be easy. even regular rpgs dont have to be easy, its just final fantasy games are. take a look at valkyria chronicles or disgaea or even golden sun if you think rpgs are just no challenge breeze throughs that you play for story alone.

also i think you completely missed the point of what tryscal was saying. just because something isnt all story all the time doesnt mean its mindless. as i said in my other post, you have to strike a balance between story and gameplay, and final fantasy lately, has been tipping in the direction of the former, with final fantasy xiii being an absolute chore to play because you do practically nothing.

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Aujourdhui a commence avec toi.

Well, I apologize. I just assumed that that was exactly what you meant when you answered yes. Sorry. I didn't look at the rest. I've been really busy with some personal issues along with college, and I skimmed. I guess I can answer, but I don't know how off-topic we are in doing this, but I'll try to tie it into FF eras.

Quote (Tryscal The Great @ 27th September 2010 10:19)

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So you would rather play some mindless entertainment than experience something that is poignant?

Well, when it comes to video games...yeah, sorry, man. I don't pay 60-odd dollars to watch movies, when I could pay a fraction of that to watch an actual, better, movie. I wouldn't exactly call it 'mindless entertainment', that's not fair.

I owned FFT for about 10 years and JUST recently started to give a damn about the story. Were the 9 or so years spending countless hours crafting my units into jobs, carefully applying skillsets, hunting for items, and applying strategy mindless? I bought Marvel vs. Capcom 2 for the 360 recently, and I've been a fighting game fan in general for about 13 years. Was the countless hours practicing and playing online and with friends at a tournament level mindless? I bought Battlefield 2: Bad Company recently and every so often my friends and I make it a point to all play together and hone our skills to a sharp point. Is that mindless?

You have to remember that people primarily play video games to play them. While I enjoy a cinematic experience and all that, it comes secondary to gameplay and I can get cinematics, which are usually better anyway, elsewhere.

To answer your questions, no, no, and no, but you're missing the idea. Those things are part of the story, and the imagination. I really have no problem with what you're saying, but my point is that there's no difference between gameplay and story. gameplay is part of the story. Playing a game like a platformer or a survival horror game, the gameplay is clearly part of the story, but it is so for any game. In fact, all things included within the game go into the game's story.

I think we can argue whether the inclusion of cinematics is bad for the series, but if they're there, then they are importand, because they're telling te story. And I think FFXII did a fine job with them. So did X.

This post has been edited by BlitzSage on 28th September 2010 04:25

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Praise Be To Helix!

I agree with BlitzSage's categorization. It makes perfect sense to me.

Oh, and not that I'm trying to sound like a troll, but I actually think VI may have marked the transition to flashiness, story and cinematics - not VII. It's got the darkest, edgiest, deepest, complex, and arguably best story of the first six games. And as far as I know, it also has the most numerable, and longest cutscenes of the the 2-d games. I'd also just like to say that I don't like being "dropped into a world and being told to get out alive." I mean, I've always found just wandering around the world map going on a vague hint from an NPC to be tedious. It makes me feel like I'm lost, and like there's no sense of coherency or aim, and I'm simultaneously scared that a super-powerful weapon will become lost forever if I don't scout out the area.

But yeah, I think BlitzSages definitions of the areas are right.


...And on a COMPLETELY irrelevant note, does anyone think Misa from Death Note looks like Colette from Tales of Symphonia?

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"When we think there's no hope left, we keep looking until we find some!" - Claire Farron

Quote (Smash Genesis @ 28th September 2010 00:56)

I agree with BlitzSage's categorization. It makes perfect sense to me.

Oh, and not that I'm trying to sound like a troll, but I actually think VI may have marked the transition to flashiness, story and cinematics - not VII.

You know what? That's actually an interesting perspective. It's easy to pick out FFVII as the beginning of that era, because of the inclusion of FMVs. But whenever I look for words to describe FFVI's story, it would be a word like operatic. Perhaps you're right, but FFVI was just the major leap forward. My point is that that was always their intention.

But I'm kind of going back and forth about where I disagree with you guys or not about the cut scenes. I prefer the games between VI and IX, but I think it's because most of those games did it well.

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Praise Be To Helix!

In terms of flash,cutscenes exist to enhance a game and not be the main subject.


In terms of cutscenes,wouldn't ff4 be considered to have some cutscenes? I mean sure they aren't video,but like the lunar whale.

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blitzsage

You know what? That's actually an interesting perspective. It's easy to pick out FFVII as the beginning of that era, because of the inclusion of FMVs. But whenever I look for words to describe FFVI's story, it would be a word like operatic. Perhaps you're right, but FFVI was just the major leap forward. My point is that that was always their intention.

But I'm kind of going back and forth about where I disagree with you guys or not about the cut scenes. I prefer the games between VI and IX, but I think it's because most of those games did it well.

I always imagined in my head that ff6 was sort of like a opera.

The whole game seems to play out like one big play,and the comedy works beautifully.

I think it is actually a good thing since this actually works quite well.

In terms of FMV!! The fmv in ff7 were very nice and well done,but of course it would be as the makers use the best technology available for the time.

The arms were blocky and to tell you the truth,i prefer that they limit the amount of fmv cutscenes and such becuase if not you have ff8 all over again.

Too little cutscenes can hurt the game because you need some scenes that explain the game itself and give character to the characters.

Too much can be hurtful like in ff8 because there is a lot of not needed scenes.

Cgi graphics and videos are meant to enhance and not be the main source

In terms of artistry if anyone reads this:I do think they get better and are trying to move forward.
I imagine that its sometimes hard.

The big question is:When is too radical in terms of gameplay? FFXII and FFXIII?

Too radical of gameplay FF8?
I haven't played FFXII,but i suppose i should put it as people have ranted about the controls and feel of this game and giving the AI a order through menu or some sort of system to attack or cast magic.

Too simple would be bad too:Eternal sonata,i don't are for the gameplay at all and find it doesn't really add much in terms of gameplay.
I find the game unappealing.

Think about it.

This post has been edited by Magitek_slayer on 28th September 2010 09:10

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Quote (Smash Genesis @ 28th September 2010 04:56)

I'd also just like to say that I don't like being "dropped into a world and being told to get out alive." I mean, I've always found just wandering around the world map going on a vague hint from an NPC to be tedious. It makes me feel like I'm lost, and like there's no sense of coherency or aim, and I'm simultaneously scared that a super-powerful weapon will become lost forever if I don't scout out the area.

To me thats part of the challenge. Before there were online walkthroughs and stuff games like Phantasy Star, Dragon warrior, Final fantasy 1, Miracle Warriors, etc were all about trying to find your way to the next area. Sure it may have taken a bit longer than necessary but it kept you wondering what you had to do to finish it.

Now, all you have to do is turn on the newest Final fantasy game and as long as you are awake enough to hit the button when they tell you to, you will get to where you need to go.

Quote (BlitzSage)

but my point is that there's no difference between gameplay and story. gameplay is part of the story. Playing a game like a platformer or a survival horror game, the gameplay is clearly part of the story, but it is so for any game. In fact, all things included within the game go into the game's story.

No, it's not. On one end we have games that don't care for story--ever heard of the excuse plot? On the other end, we have have visual novels, which are mostly plot and little gameplay.

It's just that, at least by my tastes, the best games weave plot and gameplay together in such a way that it feels like I as the player am driving the plot forward. Even if it may be totally railroaded.

Quote (Magitek_slayer)

In terms of cutscenes,wouldn't ff4 be considered to have some cutscenes? I mean sure they aren't video,but like the lunar whale.

Yes. FF games have had cutscenes going back to FF1. It's just that FF7 introduced full-motion video (FMV) cutscenes, which dramatically set the cutscenes apart from the gameplay.

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Check the "What games are you playing at the moment?" thread for updates on what I've been playing.

You can find me on the Fediverse! I use Mastodon, where I am @[email protected] ( https://sakurajima.moe/@glennmagusharvey )

Quote (Glenn Magus Harvey @ 28th September 2010 18:36)

Yes. FF games have had cutscenes going back to FF1. It's just that FF7 introduced full-motion video (FMV) cutscenes, which dramatically set the cutscenes apart from the gameplay.

I agree.

The full cutscenes do add a little to the game a bit.

I suppose also the intro left a lot of intro.



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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Quote (Glenn Magus Harvey @ 28th September 2010 14:36)

Quote (BlitzSage)

but my point is that there's no difference between gameplay and story. gameplay is part of the story. Playing a game like a platformer or a survival horror game, the gameplay is clearly part of the story, but it is so for any game. In fact, all things included within the game go into the game's story.

No, it's not. On one end we have games that don't care for story--ever heard of the excuse plot? On the other end, we have have visual novels, which are mostly plot and little gameplay.

It's just that, at least by my tastes, the best games weave plot and gameplay together in such a way that it feels like I as the player am driving the plot forward. Even if it may be totally railroaded.

No, I haven't heard of it, but clearly those people do not understand what a story is, and what is troubling, neither does John Carmack. And he should know, because he created one of the best examples of a story without a major plot: Wolfenstein 3D. See, in that particular game, the plot is that you have to escape Wolfenstein prison, but that's that the entire story. Storytelling has a lot to do with aesthetics. There is much more to that game than the few lines of plot that are added. If that were the case, then Carmack would be correct, but he is not.

The story, with all the facets placed together, is the gameplay, art style, sounds, emotions, all of these things are aspects of the story. Let's say that you run out of ammo, and have to use your knife. So, you're running out of health but you've got to make it to the next level. Meanwhile, you are looking around at Nazi propoganda in a strange, almost satirical design. Almost like the whole thing is a farce. So, in other words, the story is the game. All aspects play into it.

Now, let's look at Carmack's interesting porn analogy. He says that the plot is not important. Not so fast. Let's take a pornographic story, let's say, a boss calls in his secretary, and they have sex. Now, Carmack says this is unimportant, but think about it. Why are they doing that? The answer is that they are creating a scenario for the viewer to fantasize about. You're supposed to be the boss, or the secretary. So, it is absolutely important for the porn to... do it's job.

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Yes. FF games have had cutscenes going back to FF1. It's just that FF7 introduced full-motion video (FMV) cutscenes, which dramatically set the cutscenes apart from the gameplay.

As for that, I agree. One of my issues with FFVII was that I felt its use of FMVs were disconnected from the rest of the game, despite some being impressive. But other newer games in the series have done a better job, and even for FFVII it wasn't a major issue.

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Praise Be To Helix!

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blitzsage

you are looking around at Nazi propoganda in a strange, almost satirical design. Almost like the whole thing is a farce. So, in other words, the story is the game. All aspects play.

Uh Its a known fact that fps games are not known for having deep and philosophical stories.

Sorry but its true,the game is more about going around shooting than questioning why they are shooting.

Its pure action.

In movies like commando they don't go deep into philosophical discussions because that is not what the movie is about,its about action.

Action movies are there to entertain and shooters are pure brainless entertainment,for their lack of story and character development,they focus on pure repetitive gameplay of shooting things to death which is ok for some people.

I am not goingt o question fps as i don't care for that kind of gaming,i will say i played several shooters:Duke nukem doom wolfenstein and redneck rampage
let's say, a boss calls in his secretary, and they have sex. Now, Carmack says this is unimportant, but think about it. Why are they doing that? The answer is that they are creating a scenario for the viewer to fantasize about.

Sex in movies many times is used as a distraction to keep the viewers interested,while sometimes it can be used as something significant a lot of times it is just pure eroticism to get a certain type of fanbase.

If i want to watch a porno i would go watch a porno.

Lets take barb wire ok?

What does pamela anderson do? she shows her body off to the public in both nude scenes and non nude scenes and plays a stripper like character.

Now they can easily use this but it is not to be confused with a plot.

Yes there are movies where the nudity can be used for the right reason and sometimes it isn't meant to be sexual,but other times it is used as a distraction.

I felt its use of FMVs were disconnected from the rest of the game, despite some being impressive. But other newer games in the series have done a better job, and even for FFVII it wasn't a major issue.

I believe the problem is not so much as the videos as the right usage and concentrating on characters having something in common other than hating shinra.

In ff6,the characters had something in common other than hating kefka

I felt as if they actually had connected with each other and their story made them deeper.

FF7 fell flat as a disappointment for me.

I liked cid because he had a little bit of character,but vincent and the others really didn't do much in terms of showing personality traits and they all felt overall really bland.

There was something it was missing that ff9 FFX ff6 and even ff4 had.

Cutscenes are nice and important to show an event.

Fmvs are very nice but they aren't needed either,sure with fmv mastery and done right you can breathe life into a game and make it feel more alive,but a lot of times it feels as if they use it in the wrong manner.

Its like taking a action movie and putting all cgi special affects and 0 character development and personality.

So the characters have the character of sand paper and the story isn't worth 2 cents.

All you have is pretty special affects,but it won't be memorable at all.

On the sidenote:when cgi is used right like in lord of the rings,you get an epic fight scene that is used to create a grand effect to make you feel like there really is a huge war going on and make it feel grand.

moving picturesn that are silent have been around since late 1800's and since then we have had silent films that have been epic and didn't need special effects to make a great story.

This greedy desire for more graphics for what? so it looks prettier? I would rather have a great story great character development.

Also,Yes a game can flop if the gameplay sucks even if it has a good story and good character development,because the fact is that a game is still a game and gameplay is still a huge factor.

Having a great story is very very good but having good gameplay is vital to a game because,it is a game after all and there has to be some level of gameplay.

The best kind of game,is a game that is balanced in both gameplay story and character development.

This post has been edited by Magitek_slayer on 28th September 2010 22:33

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 28th September 2010 17:31)

Uh Its a known fact that fps games are not known for having deep and philosophical stories.

I'm not normally one to defend an FPS (I have terrible reflexes and so usually just get eaten) but...Bioshock has a pretty damn deep and philosophical story.

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"If art doesn't risk upsetting expectations and challenging its audience, it can only stagnate."

Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 28th September 2010 22:31)

Having a great story is very very good but having good gameplay is vital to a game because,it is a game after all and there has to be some level of gameplay.

The best kind of game,is a game that is balanced in both gameplay story and character development.

This is my point right here. This is what is, in my opinion, killing the final fantasy series. They are leaning SO toward the FMV and getting away from the actual gameplay aspect.

Quote (trismegistus @ 28th September 2010 20:34)

Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 28th September 2010 17:31)

Uh Its a known fact that fps games are not known for having deep and philosophical stories.

I'm not normally one to defend an FPS (I have terrible reflexes and so usually just get eaten) but...Bioshock has a pretty damn deep and philosophical story.

Yeah, to say a whole genre can't tell a story is generalizing.

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Praise Be To Helix!

Quote (BlitzSage @ 28th September 2010 21:12)

Quote (trismegistus @ 28th September 2010 20:34)

Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 28th September 2010 17:31)

Uh Its a known fact that fps games are not known for having deep and philosophical stories.

I'm not normally one to defend an FPS (I have terrible reflexes and so usually just get eaten) but...Bioshock has a pretty damn deep and philosophical story.

Yeah, to say a whole genre can't tell a story is generalizing.

so is how saying a whole genre isnt challenging, and that you only play it for the story, nothing else.

i agree with aeris-logan, the current ff series is growing more and more into a spectacle instead of a game. if they want to make a movie, they should just get on with it, but i wont pay $60 if the game is going to play itself. the gambit system was different, there was so much going on so quickly at times that navigating the menu system was a detriment, but you could do it in emergencies. in ff xiii, the game picks the best possible course of action for pretty much any occasion, theres no point in doing it yourself because the game does what you would do. it gets to a point where theres no point in playing the game.

i would even argue that the game fails on the story side too, as i guarantee you that you wont know whats going on until about 3/4 of the way through the game unless you read the glossary that they give you. handing someone a book before playing a game isnt good story telling at all. and even when you understand whats happening, the story is still terrible, as is the characters (especially seeing as it focuses on the characters to drive the story). if this era of final fantasy is defined by horrible exposition, auto battles, and spectacle, then i want no part of it.

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Aujourdhui a commence avec toi.

Quote (BlitzSage @ 29th September 2010 02:12)

Quote (trismegistus @ 28th September 2010 20:34)

Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 28th September 2010 17:31)

Uh Its a known fact that fps games are not known for having deep and philosophical stories.

I'm not normally one to defend an FPS (I have terrible reflexes and so usually just get eaten) but...Bioshock has a pretty damn deep and philosophical story.

Yeah, to say a whole genre can't tell a story is generalizing.

You ever play doom or turok64 or even wolfenstein 3d and maybe some of the other games i mentioned above?

Saying they got next to no story or none at all is not generalizing.

And i don't consider bioshock a idfferent category.

Bioshock is a action shooter or something like that.

It has first person sight.

I've seen halo and frankly its no secret why its considered overrated.

Metroid also has fps likeness but has platforms so that makes it a fps platform,but it also has a storyline.

Some games have next to no story line and a lot of shooting.

Quote

aerris logan

This is my point right here. This is what is, in my opinion, killing the final fantasy series. They are leaning SO toward the FMV and getting away from the actual gameplay aspect.

This i agree on actually.

I have been fighting against games that are mostly fmv and less gameplay like metal gear solid 4.

FF7 had a lot of fmv and started the whole thing with really long videos like: Knights of the round.

GOD! imagine how long it would take if you spam that spell

This post has been edited by Magitek_slayer on 29th September 2010 08:32

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

You know, I really, honestly am having trouble reading this thread. Why is it not possible to just say that one has a particular era that they prefer without other people seeing that as a slight to their own particular preferred era?

No matter how you slice up the eras, there hasn't been one yet that didn't have at least one Final Fantasy game that I enjoyed (at least of the ones I've played, my last one was X). They all have their pros and cons, and to deny that must be an overgeneralization of itself.

The arguments I'm seeing here, at least as much as I can stomach to read, are based on semantics. What's a story? What genre is a particular game in? What makes an RPG? Is it this, that, the combination of both?

These are questions that have no objective answers, and yet there are people posting in this thread that have become so defensive about their own subjective ideas, that most of this second page of posts has been general bickering about why one person is wrong and another is right. You want to talk mindless and pointless? For me, that describes it.

And that's why I'm not really giving my own answer in this thread. I know what my favorite era is, I suppose, though there are lots of things that I love about each of them. To explain why I feel the strongest about one in particular would just invite more argument about a point where I don't care if someone agrees with me or not, and I don't really think it's worth debating when my opinion disagrees with someone else's.

Cue the responses explaining why person x has said thing y to person z now, in an effort to explain why this bickering needs to go on.

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"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN?

Quote (BlitzSage)

No, I haven't heard of it, but clearly those people do not understand what a story is, and what is troubling, neither does John Carmack. And he should know, because he created one of the best examples of a story without a major plot: Wolfenstein 3D. See, in that particular game, the plot is that you have to escape Wolfenstein prison, but that's that the entire story. Storytelling has a lot to do with aesthetics. There is much more to that game than the few lines of plot that are added. If that were the case, then Carmack would be correct, but he is not.

The story, with all the facets placed together, is the gameplay, art style, sounds, emotions, all of these things are aspects of the story. Let's say that you run out of ammo, and have to use your knife. So, you're running out of health but you've got to make it to the next level. Meanwhile, you are looking around at Nazi propoganda in a strange, almost satirical design. Almost like the whole thing is a farce. So, in other words, the story is the game. All aspects play into it.

Now, let's look at Carmack's interesting porn analogy. He says that the plot is not important. Not so fast. Let's take a pornographic story, let's say, a boss calls in his secretary, and they have sex. Now, Carmack says this is unimportant, but think about it. Why are they doing that? The answer is that they are creating a scenario for the viewer to fantasize about. You're supposed to be the boss, or the secretary. So, it is absolutely important for the porn to... do it's job.

Actually, you're not talking about plot. You're talking about atmosphere and immersion.

Those two can also be separated. Knytt Stories is a freeware game--well, actually, it's a freeware game design platform aimed at letting people easily create their own exploration-heavy metroidvania platformers. Some of the games that the fan community has created really have excuse plots, or worse (or better) yet, no plot at all--there's one that's literally called "Plotless". Yet the games, with their ambient music tracks and sound effects, and their wide-open gameplay and heavily-detailed graphics, provide a heaping dose of atmosphere. In fact, some people call the Knytt Stories game/series/platform an "atmospheric platformer".

--------------------

Check the "What games are you playing at the moment?" thread for updates on what I've been playing.

You can find me on the Fediverse! I use Mastodon, where I am @[email protected] ( https://sakurajima.moe/@glennmagusharvey )

I always seem to be part of these forums that go awry. I'm sorry. This has nothing to do with storytelling or anything else.

Quote (Rangers51 @ 29th September 2010 12:38)

No matter how you slice up the eras, there hasn't been one yet that didn't have at least one Final Fantasy game that I enjoyed (at least of the ones I've played, my last one was X). They all have their pros and cons, and to deny that must be an overgeneralization of itself.

I completely agree with that. For me, no matter what game it is, I've always enjoyed them. Final Fantasy just has this style that I prefer. I can play all of them and get the same. I would like to hear your opinions on the different eras, since this website basically covers the whole of the series. I think we can discuss the different eras in a less stomach-churning manner. That's why I come to this site.

But I'm not too sure if I like one era over another, or if there are other eras. I just know that my personal favorites came in the middle of the series, but I don't think the series is fading or anything. I think that FFXII was fantastic, and FFI is probably the FF I play more than any other.

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Praise Be To Helix!

Quote (Rangers51 @ 29th September 2010 16:38)

You know, I really, honestly am having trouble reading this thread. Why is it not possible to just say that one has a particular era that they prefer without other people seeing that as a slight to their own particular preferred era?

I'm not denying that there was some i found something to enjoy about on some games.

I am just saying that While graphics have gotten better the games themselves escalate up and down like a graph.


What i am trying to prove,is that in some games they focus on videos and fmv and sometimes they make them too much like interactive movies,but not all games.

I do not like games like interactive movies,i like games that are games.

That is my point and that is all

This post has been edited by Magitek_slayer on 29th September 2010 19:52

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

I think it was my response that started the whole discussion that was slightly off topic. It wasnt meant to be off topic. It was simply the way I generalized the "Eras".

Quote

To answer your questions, no, no, and no, but you're missing the idea. Those things are part of the story, and the imagination. I really have no problem with what you're saying, but my point is that there's no difference between gameplay and story. gameplay is part of the story. Playing a game like a platformer or a survival horror game, the gameplay is clearly part of the story, but it is so for any game. In fact, all things included within the game go into the game's story.

I think we can argue whether the inclusion of cinematics is bad for the series, but if they're there, then they are importand, because they're telling te story. And I think FFXII did a fine job with them. So did X.

I can see what you're saying, and I apologize about the implied hostility.

Like DCR is saying however, I think there is a fine line and a divide over what's too much story/gameplay for an RPG such as Final Fantasy. I don't want to spend too much time with the controller down watching something, but at the same time I do like my endless hacking away at monsters to have some sort of a greater purpose.

To that end, I think FFVI and FFVII has the best balance of this.

Quote

These are questions that have no objective answers, and yet there are people posting in this thread that have become so defensive about their own subjective ideas, that most of this second page of posts has been general bickering about why one person is wrong and another is right. You want to talk mindless and pointless? For me, that describes it.

And that's why I'm not really giving my own answer in this thread. I know what my favorite era is, I suppose, though there are lots of things that I love about each of them. To explain why I feel the strongest about one in particular would just invite more argument about a point where I don't care if someone agrees with me or not, and I don't really think it's worth debating when my opinion disagrees with someone else's.

Cue the responses explaining why person x has said thing y to person z now, in an effort to explain why this bickering needs to go on.

I know you're the head honcho here, so I mean this with no disrespect to what kind of conduct you tolerate here, but I don't think there's anything wrong with passionate discussion and sometimes debate on something you feel strongly about.

I think as long as we all keep our cool and act like adults, passionately discussing our ideas and respectfully disagreeing is part of what gives a community and interaction between its members life. There's no fun and no soul in constantly agreeing to disagree or "BEEP BOOP YOUR OPINION IS VALUED I HAVE NO COMMENT BEEP BOOP", and so on, ya know? A community that is afraid of conflict is a dead one.

Just my thoughts!

Moderator Edit

This is another reason why I try not to post in the forums, despite needing to get the opinion out there, it's impossible for me to do so without it being too much of "hey guy in charge." Passion is fine, and I'm happy to see more activity in the forums, and that's why I stepped in - when it crosses the line to disrespect and insults, I need to close the thread. I don't want to close the thread. -R51

This post has been edited by Rangers51 on 30th September 2010 02:40

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//www.rpgmaker.net/
We make games. Period.

To me, the 'eras' are pretty clearly defined gameplay-wise to the respective systems the games came out on...i.e. the NES/SNES/PSX etc eras.

There were tweaks to the systems, but the gameplay was easy to identify by the systems they were on until PS2. Everything after is just random as all hell. Personally I blame the internet, but that's cause I'm old.

Edit

Really Josh? A mod edit to respond to some guys post? You couldn't PM that?

Moderator Edit

I'm doing this just to spite you, now.

This post has been edited by Rangers51 on 30th September 2010 13:05

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Arts

Farts

Twarts

Quote (Tryscal The Great @ 30th September 2010 01:49)

I think there is a fine line and a divide over what's too much story/gameplay for an RPG such as Final Fantasy. I don't want to spend too much time with the controller down watching something, but at the same time I do like my endless hacking away at monsters to have some sort of a greater purpose.

To that end, I think FFVI and FFVII has the best balance of this.

There is such a thing as fmv videos used in the wrong manner.

In ff8,i found that there were videos that added little to no desireability to the characters and it had tones of fmv videos.

Fmv videos don't always add character to the game because they use it in the wrong manner,and i agree with ranger51 on the topic.

Some people meet other peoples opinion with hostility like i have encountered on youtube for thinking a game is overrated.

I can also name some games that the videeo fmv do add character.

I think FFX does fairly well at the story but they sacrifice a little gameplay to be like a movie.

The question is:How much gameplay are you willing to sacrifice for fmv?

I think this is a clear case of:Too much like a interactive movie and not like a real game.


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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Saw a Kotaku article this morning that definitely falls right into this thread (HOW IS THIS TOPIC ALREADY TWO YEARS OLD?)

http://kotaku.com/5941239/even-square-enix...dium=socialflow

Square Enix made up a couple banners that divide the series into three categories, something which some of us have also done in our posts (though it seems that a four-category model is a bit more popular in this thread and is able to get at more specific qualities). I'm not sure if anyone had SE's exact division, however, which is the following:

Old School: FFI through FFVI
Golden Age: FFVII through FFXII
Modern Era: FFXIII, FFXIV, FFXIII-2

Some of us in this thread have divided what SE calls the Old School into two categories, FFI through FFIII and FFIV through FFVI, while others (including the Kotaku writer) consider FFVI to be more closely related to the Golden Age.

I don't think any of us considered FFVII and FFXII as part of the same era, however. It's hard for me to see binding similarities between FFVII and FFXII - let alone FFXI and any other title included in this category - and even harder to say that FFXII was 'Golden'.

Finally , it's rather interesting that SE is openly admitting that they aren't in a golden age.

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Currently Playing : Final Fantasy V
Most Recently Beat : Elder Scrolls: Skyrim
Favorite Game : Final Fantasy X

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