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Why can't they have just used Taylor Swift's "Love Story"?! It's far superior in lyrics, imo. And she's

Really though, in Grandia III, they had a pop song as the theme song, and it worked out pretty well. The song was about "flying so high," and the main character had an airplane, and it was a nice, poppy tune to accompany the fast-paced cinematics.

The only problem I see with this is relevance; either it's the underlying theme of the game, in which case gag me now, or it's not as relevant to the story and kind of misplaced. If it's the underlying theme, I really don't want to think of the game characters as being so torn over a break-up. Heroins to video games are supposed to be strong and duty-centered, not hopeless romantics-- unless of course their guy's going on an adventure.


Honestly, I can't blame a company for trying new things and experimenting. They need to look at the profits because frankly, as passionate as fans may be, they're only one person and usually only buy one copy of each game. They need to increase fan numbers, though I don't know what their idea of their original fans is.

Not to say I like it-- I like the original role-playing, adventurous spirit the games used to have, not this cinematic overload of drama.

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You're telling me that there's no hope.

I'm telling you you're wrong.

Quote (RelmArrowney @ 13th December 2009 02:54)

Honestly, I can't blame a company for trying new things and experimenting.

I think that's everyone's problem with it. They're experimenting, but not in an artistic way. They're trying to find a way to make more money. While I don't like that, I'll still try the game.

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Praise Be To Helix!

I think thas what gets me the most. Why couldn't they have at least TRIED to give it some real though, all they did was slap the song in there. Why couldn't they consult us first? I guess we don't really don't matter in their minds, as long as we buy the games. As sad as that sounds, its so true.

Quote (KirbAppeal @ 13th December 2009 19:30)

I think thas what gets me the most. Why couldn't they have at least TRIED to give it some real though, all they did was slap the song in there. Why couldn't they consult us first? I guess we don't really don't matter in their minds, as long as we buy the games. As sad as that sounds, its so true.

Well, for good or ill, we aren't being paid to consult them, but you're right in that we are their audience, and if they don't please us they'll be out of business. I'm trying not to be pessimistic about this, because Square has made some of the greatest games ever made. But I have to agree that as of now it doesn't look very good. Nevertheless, I will try it.

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Praise Be To Helix!

Quote (Del S @ 20th December 2009 04:01 *From Split Thread*)

Sounds like the acerbic tones of Leona "Banshee" Lewis

Okay, I'll take all the bashing of Leona Lewis... if you guys do one thing:

Name one difference between her and Mariah Carey.

This post has been edited by Rangers51 on 20th December 2009 12:39

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Praise Be To Helix!

This strikes me as odd, but then again, I can't judge since I doubt that the song will be in it's original format, it will also probably be sampled extensively. I can see the second verse and possibly the bridge making the cut, but not the entire song. And knowing Squenix, they will slap a techno/j-pop beat on top of it to spruce up the boring and repetitive percussion/handclaps that the back drop of this song is. The song seems to possibly hint at the fact of a future, as evidenced by the line about babies and such. It starts weak and builds to a steady crescendo in the end. All in all, not a bad song. But maybe not a Final Fantasy theme as it is. After the Squenix tinkering, it should be fine.

Also, the backlash on this is crazy. If you don't like the song, mute it until you get past it. I doubt it will be playing constantly, as it is not a battle theme. It may only be in the intro/ credits. For all we know it could play during the credits while a slide show similiar to FF8 plays.

My point? We don't know and to get all craggy over it is just, well, kind of absurd.

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This is a webcomic and gaming blog where I rant about nonsense. Enjoy.

I was a soldier, now I just play one in video games.

Quote (BlitzSage @ 20th December 2009 10:23)

Quote (Del S @ 20th December 2009 04:01 *From Split Thread*)

Sounds like the acerbic tones of Leona "Banshee" Lewis

Okay, I'll take all the bashing of Leona Lewis... if you guys do one thing:

Name one difference between her and Mariah Carey.

There is really little to no difference, and to me, this is all part of the problem. It's precisely because she sounds the same as an artist I don't particularly like, writes the same stuff as an artist I don't like, and she also gained fame via a television show that has produced nothing but bland follow-the-leader artists who are mostly destined to be back where they belong in five years: Panto and Pub gigs.

This post has been edited by Del S on 20th December 2009 16:26

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"Only the dead have seen the end of their quotes being misattributed to Plato."
-George Santayana

"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here..."
-Abraham Lincoln, prior to the discovery of Irony.

Quote (Del S @ 20th December 2009 12:26)

Quote (BlitzSage @ 20th December 2009 10:23)

Quote (Del S @ 20th December 2009 04:01 *From Split Thread*)

Sounds like the acerbic tones of Leona "Banshee" Lewis

Okay, I'll take all the bashing of Leona Lewis... if you guys do one thing:

Name one difference between her and Mariah Carey.

There is really little to no difference, and to me, this is all part of the problem. It's precisely because she sounds the same as an artist I don't particularly like, writes the same stuff as an artist I don't like, and she also gained fame via a television show that has produced nothing but bland follow-the-leader artists who are mostly destined to be back where they belong in five years: Panto and Pub gigs.

Okay, good point. I actually agree witht that. But still, it's bland, but it's not necessarily bad. Not bad enough at least to change my thoughts about the game.

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Praise Be To Helix!

Quick story.. I went to see Avatar this week, and when the credits started to roll they had some terrible pop song playing over them. I was laughing about how it seem like such a forced pop song that they shoehorned into the movie, and even pointed that out to my friend I was with. I started to think about this thread and if these terrible pop themes were starting to become a more prevalent occurrence. I stuck around through all of the credits as I usually do, and lo and behold when the song credits roll by I see the song was called "I see you" and is by none other than Leona Lewis. I started laughing pretty hard, just a funny story I though I'd share.

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"We're not tools of the government or anyone else. Fighting... fighting was the only thing I was ever good at, but at least I always fought for what I believed in." - Frank Yeager (a.k.a. Grey Fox)

The difference between Mariah Carey and Leona Lewis? A bunch of Grammys and a crap-load of albums sold. Not saying that's a direct correlation of actual talent (see Spears, Britney), but I'm sure someone who appreciates that type of music would surely know. I don't care for either one myself but Mariah Carey is far and away the better singer. My wife listens to her all the time.

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Sabin: Kefka! Wait!
Kefka: Wait he says! Do I look like a waiter?

Seriously? I don't understand all of the vitriol Leona Lewis is getting. It's not like she masterminded this whole plan to ruin the Final Fantasy franchise. Honestly, I'm sick of all this purist crap. If anything, it was the product of her music label and Square Enix America, so if you must get mad at someone, get mad at them, don't direct unmitigated hatred at her. I can't believe this is the thing that is making people have a hissy fit. I got tired of coming down on the game a few months ago, having realized I knew almost nothing about the game and it wasn't all that bad. But to criticize such a minor part of the game seems in bad taste.

This is the product of all of the in-fighting Final Fantasy fans have had since probably VII. It's what makes some of us embarassed to stay interested in the franchise because apparently you can't like a Final Fantasy game without wishing fiery death upon some people.

It's just a song, get over it. If you want to be such a purist about the game, just import the Japanese version since it's already released so you won't have to deal with Leona Lewis, because she's obviously ruined the franchise. Never mind the fact that Final Fantasy music has never been the same since Faye Wong provided a vocal track for Final Fantasy VIII. Never mind the fact that Final Fantasy X-2 practically revolved around the vocal tracks from the game (yes I know it's a bit of a sour example, but that was 6-7 years ago). Like R51 stated, take the game or leave it. Some of us are still looking forward to it, so don't take the fun out of it for us.

And as for the difference for Mariah Carey and Leona Lewis? I honestly don't think that people who don't really listen to the kind of music they make should be the judge of that. Now, if Mariah Carey was providing vocals for XIII, you would see a ton of more controversy, so yeah.

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"You underestimate the strength of a Jedi's mind, Brejik. A mistake you won't live to regret, " -Bastila Shan(Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic)

Quote (Aether Master @ 9th January 2010 07:40)

. If anything, it was the product of her music label and Square Enix America, so if you must get mad at someone, get mad at them

I am mad at them, not her as such.
I mean, I don't like her music, but if I was a music artist and got the chance to do a theme song for Final Fantasy or something, I'd be all over that.
I definately don't blame her. I'm just sad that it's a totally un-final fantasy song.

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*Sigh*....Times are tough

I still think this will be a small part of the game, like maybe during the intro or during the end credits, and thusly will not impact the actual playability of the game.

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This is a webcomic and gaming blog where I rant about nonsense. Enjoy.

I was a soldier, now I just play one in video games.

Okay, I finally agree with you guys. My hopes for this game have weakened. Something just snapped.

Or maybe it's because of this new trailer, with her song blasting through it.

For starters, I agree, and for what it's worth I have always agreed, that the song was bad. Because it is just like most songs today: bland and uninteresting, I've never said that I would enjoy its inclusion in the game.

But hearing it alongside the game, it is made worse by the coupling with Final Fantasy. Now, what I've always loved about Final Fantasy stories is the epic mythology, fantasy and world-changing events, mingled along with characters and their personal journeys, trials and struggles. But the main aspect of the story has always been the world itself. Hearing her song breaks up the fantasy for me. I'm thinking about Leona Lewis when I want to be thinking about swords and magic and monsters, etc. There's no suspension of disbelief of immersion in those normally rich FF worlds.

And if you can cipher through the song to get to the dialogue, it seemed very uncompelling to me. I'm starting to understand what you all have been saying, that perhaps the series has changed forever. Because what I saw in this trailer is not Final Fantasy. Not the classic six, not even the post-VII ones. Something completely different.

Like I said, I don't want to judge a game that hasn't come out yet, and I have a lot of respect for many of those guys and Square. But my expectations have lowered on this game quite a bit.

This post has been edited by BlitzSage on 14th January 2010 07:58

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Praise Be To Helix!

What just happened?

Okay, protip. As far as I'm aware, a preview trailer is meant to be interesting, draw in people who are seeing this for the first time. You're meant to have the audience thinking "Oh, this looks good."

So, how do you do that? Simple. Show some action. In a long trailer you want to show something semi-coherent too, like this Dark Knight trailer. You get a sense of drama, you see the action, you get what this film is going to be about. You think this will be a good movie. The music fits, the music is selected from the previous film admittedly, but because it's not the same song over the various scenes, it connects with them.

You don't get dialogue. You get soundbites. Soundbites that tease, make you wonder the context they'd be used in. As we know, most of the Joker's little rant there is assembled from all over the movie.

And the result, along with other factors(1) was one of the most successful movies of all time.

Another example. I don't really care much about Avatar. Everything I heard painted a film that was just another "Humans Are Bastards" story that sees the plucky aliens beat back the evil human military with superior technology, then everything from people who had saw and loved the film told me I was right and that it was also The Last Samurai who Dances with Pocahontas in Fern Gully IN SPACE during the Battle for Terra(2).

But the trailers. Well, let's see. This one is a pretty good example of a good trailer IMO. Shows you enough. Teases you. Shows you some of the visuals, shows you an outline of how the story will go. You can see it's obvious: The human is transferred into the big blue thing, then it looks like the humans are going to have a fight with the other big blue things. And it makes me at least ponder the film when I watch it.

Total dialogue: one line: "This is great"(3). Music: Fitting, not having to fight with streams of dialogue.

Outcome: The second highest grossing film of all time and on track to possibly surpass Titanic. With help from other factors(4).

And then we look at this.

Talking, Talking, Talking. Bland music FIGHTING WITH THE DIALOGUE(5). Giving away huge chunks of lines, giving away confusing mishmashes from one scene to the other... Not to mention the VA seems oddly grating to me somehow. That's never been a big thing with me but here this just, it doesn't fit. I dunno why.

And the same song over the trailer. Drowning out the trailer. All throughout the trailer. Rarely if ever syncing up with the trailer. The Dark Knight had action music showing action scenes, Avatar had the "ooh look at this" music for "ooh look at this" scenes. The music in a trailer defines the scene and defines the expectations. What does My Hands therefore promise with this trailer?

Blandness. Cliché. Nothing truly new.

It takes too long to show anything interesting and does not draw you in. It uses a terrible song that doesn't fit and it's just not doing the job as a trailer to hype up the game and excite you. The trailer itself is a miserable failure to start with and the choice of music is simply highlighted as one of the failures. This is a poorly chosen song on a poorly chosen trailer. When it finally shows you what people expect from the trailer it's all just a blur of nonsense. The action scenes are too cluttered and confusing, cutting too fast and melding into one big mess that doesn't even let you see the impressive visuals in the process because you're too confused.

In all fairness, yes, this isn't a movie. It's a game. This isn't western-made, it's Japanese. But they're on new ground in the west. They're on the XBox. The XBox, where the average gamer played Modern Warfare 2 and they had interesting trailers for that, aimed at the intended audience(6). And what did Modern Warfare do?

Became one of a small band of entertainment franchises to earn a billion dollars in sales. True, it's not the kind of game your average FF fan plays and it's not the kind of game that to my knowledge is super-popular in Japan, but good trailers help feed hype. And when your hype already consists of a broken base full of people finding faults, legitimate and exaggerated, and people questioning every snippet of information, you really need the trailers to try and turn it around.

But then again, you'll say, "Del already hated this game". Not so much. I'd been hoping maybe it would be okay, that this song could be muted. That all the other worrying developments could maybe be just small cracks. This trailer says otherwise. You can't mute the promise of bland voice acting and dialogue, you can't mute the idea it's going to be a mess. This trailer drops the expectations once again. It might be an okay game, but it looks less like Final Fantasy, and more like FF-In-Name-Only FINO Fantasy(7). It's not looking like it'll be a very good game at all any more, and this song is the least of the problems now, except that it's really not helping. It's a bland song, with a bland looking game.

But it's not the end of the Final Fantasy series as such. After all, there are other factors (8).

I do like the irony though. They chose Leona Lewis allegedly to try and attract new fans. They chose the XBox to tap a new market. They sought to convert people into joining the ranks of the fanbase.

And they just went ahead and turned at least one person off, so no doubt there are others watching this trailer, and not thinking "Oh, this looks good" at all. They're thinking "Oh, boring."



1- Huge hype, death of a main actor leading to even more hype with it being his final completed performance, and previous film critically and commercially successful.
2- It speaks volumes that a film that premièred in 2007 at a film festival has the SAME GODDAMN PLOT as your movie. Not necessarily in terms of how you ripped everything off but that you took so damn long developing the film you were ripped off yourself three years in advance and not even by The Asylum.
3- Ego Much?
4- Huge hype, previous films of director being critically and financially successful, most recent non-documentary film of the director being the highest grossing film of all time.
5- And I actually like Doctor Who and its music... maybe because the music is epic and actually fits?
6- There are other factors of course for Modern Warfare 2 being a success. Huge hype, previous game critically and financially successful...
7- Yes, I know it's recursive.
8- Huge hype, previous games critically and commercially successful, goddamn weeaboos.

This post has been edited by Del S on 14th January 2010 10:44

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"Only the dead have seen the end of their quotes being misattributed to Plato."
-George Santayana

"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here..."
-Abraham Lincoln, prior to the discovery of Irony.

Ok as the Devil's Advocate I'm just going to make one point that's probably been said before anyway. This isn't the first time a good FF has used a bad pop song as its theme. Depending on your taste, I'm fairly sure everybody will like VIII and/or IX. I find myself enjoying both, the latter more than the former. Both games built their cheesy pop song up throughout the game before finally unleashing the complete article to us at the end.

Eyes On Me in FFVIII was used in at various times and in various different versions. We got used to the song and it reminded us of Julia and Laguna and everything that was good about VIII, in my estimation anyway. It was IX however, that used cheesy pop the best. Garnet's song is one of the most memorable aspects of the whole game and the song itself ties nicely into the plotline. Again, both of these songs are at the end of the game and I would argue that they're just as bad as Leona Lewis.

Having said all that I'm almost certainly convinced that the FFX-2 team have missed the point of VIII and IX completely and probably think just whacking a popular western song into their game would appeal to us baboon people. The song isn't in the Japanese version so I doubt it'll be used in a way like that of VIII or IX. Still, bad pop doesn't necessarily mean "not an FF" or an automatically bland game, right? It's been done before, and very successfully.

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Scepticism, that dry rot of the intellect, had not left one entire idea in his mind.

Me on the Starcraft.

Just as a sidenote, look at the vocal themes for Dissidia: Final Fantasy. They were made by a relatively obscure Canadian alternative band named Our Favorite Enemies. For both the English and Japanese versions. They became popular in Japan after touring there and Square Enix gave them the opportunity to provide the vocals for the game. The songs have relatively nothing to do with the game, but honestly, they work. I have been listening to the songs a lot. So perhaps Square Enix was trying to artificially recreate some of that success they had with Our Favorite Enemies. Also from what I gathered, Square Enix America pretty much just picked the song from Leona Lewis's album that had already been released, so it wasn't created specifically with Final Fantasy XIII in mind.

Final Fantasy is pretty much the granddaddy of the video games that may as well be In Name Only. All of the games have different settings and worlds and only a small number (The Ivalice Alliance series) take place in the same world. Yet people pretty much insist on following the dictum of They Changed It, Now It Sucks. Final Fantasy XIII is going to have better sales because most people don't really want the PS3, so it works to put it on the 360, as well. And it's a horrible misconception to assume that if you have a 360, the only kinds of games you play are Call of Duty, etc. Yes, there really isn't a market for JRPGs on the Xbox 360 but that's mostly because the market hasn't really been tapped. Square Enix might set the example. They're possibly trying to break into the Wii Market with Dragon Quest IX. There is a growing number of RPGs on the 360 as well, so obviously people are playing the 360 for something other than action games. I find it similar to the leap from Nintendo to Playstation for RPGs.

The market for Final Fantasy was pretty much changed forever with Final Fantasy 7 so perhaps this game will have the some kind of similar repercussions. Square Enix isn't out to so much to please fans anymore because they already have an established market.

Okay, rant over.

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"You underestimate the strength of a Jedi's mind, Brejik. A mistake you won't live to regret, " -Bastila Shan(Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic)

I honestly think this song will have a minimal influence on the game. Yes, I think it's a trashy song. Yes, I could barely complete watching that new trailer due to the exponentially increasing volume and obnoxiousness of said song. But I still doubt that it'll get much playtime during the game at all, and that it won't have any effect on my overall enjoyment of it.

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Currently Playing : Final Fantasy V
Most Recently Beat : Elder Scrolls: Skyrim
Favorite Game : Final Fantasy X

The newest CoNcast is up! Have a listen!

after watching the trailer a couple times, i found myself not caring about the music and being disappointed yet again by voice acting. they seem to have gone with the final fantasy x approach and just screw voice acting over and exaggerate character emotion in an effort to improve it. they also fall into the pitfall of having awful secondary action whenever someone is talking. while im gonna get the game, im playing it with subtitles on at low volume.

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Aujourdhui a commence avec toi.

Quote (dont chocobos rule? @ 17th January 2010 23:04)

after watching the trailer a couple times, i found myself not caring about the music and being disappointed yet again by voice acting. they seem to have gone with the final fantasy x approach and just screw voice acting over and exaggerate character emotion in an effort to improve it. they also fall into the pitfall of having awful secondary action whenever someone is talking. while im gonna get the game, im playing it with subtitles on at low volume.

Agreed. Although most of the FFXII voices were bad (Fran), Balthier, Basch and Ashe carried the game on their own. I'm hoping FFXIII does the same. But, yeah, the trailers really don't give me much hope in this department.

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Scepticism, that dry rot of the intellect, had not left one entire idea in his mind.

Me on the Starcraft.

Quote (sweetdude @ 14th January 2010 14:43)

Both games built their cheesy pop song up throughout the game before finally unleashing the complete article to us at the end.

Again, both of these songs are at the end of the game and I would argue that they're just as bad as Leona Lewis.

But at least those songs were FF exclusive, and written by the staff, not just some totally irrelevant (in my opinion) song that was just tacked on to the game, for no other reason that I can think of, other than to attract a wider audience.
Which is fair enough, Squenix wants more customers.

I didn't think the voice acting was too bad, although I did watch the trailer awhile ago.
I definately don't think it's as atrocious as FFX, but still could be better.
Sometimes I wish that the games would come with different language options, so we could hear the original japanese voices but have english subtitles.
I can dream...

I'm hoping that the use of the song will just be the occasional instrumental hint throughout the game, and then played in the credits. Because I certainly don't watch the credits.
It was only on about my fourth playthrough of IX that I realised that the main theme actually had words =D

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*Sigh*....Times are tough

Quote

I didn't think the voice acting was too bad, although I did watch the trailer awhile ago.
I definately don't think it's as atrocious as FFX, but still could be better.

Here's another area where I'm a lot less picky. I recognized that Tidus' voice acting sounded pretty rough, but I really didn't mind it and as the game progressed I simply took it as part of his character and didn't mind it much at all.

I guess I'm pretty easy to please when it comes to RPGs, so long as there's an interesting plot with decent development throughout.

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Currently Playing : Final Fantasy V
Most Recently Beat : Elder Scrolls: Skyrim
Favorite Game : Final Fantasy X

The newest CoNcast is up! Have a listen!

Late to this party, but am I the only one who can actually say that I like this song, thought it worked well in the trailer, think it will work well in the game proper, and actually prefer it to the Japanese song it's replacing?

But then, I also loved "Why" (Crisis Core), "Redemption" (Dirge of Cerberus) and "Safe & Sound" (Advent Children Complete), which I understand a great many people did not.

This post has been edited by Squall of SeeD on 6th February 2010 19:34

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My Final Fantasy VII Plot Analysis

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" — Edmund Burke

Del S if you aren't already a game critic then I think you could be.

Leona Lewis isn't much of a performer, she couldn't get signed after singing school because she was dull as fuck so had to go on a show to get her voice noticed. Anyone see her on the Brits? Fair play to her though she found a route to succeed even without a personality.

The most recent FF I played was FFXII which I rapidly got bored of, before that I played FFVIII which wasn't bad but I also lost interest towards the end of Disc 3. I'd be willing to give FFXIII a go if I owned a 360 but I just fear the disapointment, so I may try and avoid it altogether based on other players opinions of the game.

I'm not convinced that the games are getting worse, it could be that our tastes are changing or we aren't adapting to the changes in the games well enough. Maybe we aren't trying hard enough or we just aren't meant to be playing these games anymore.

may get crazy looks here, but listened to the song and liked it. Though made sure it was a good judgment before making the decision whether using Leona Lewis for FF13 was a good idea or not. Listened to the song 7-8 times before making a judgment and believe that the song isn't too bad, the only thing wrong about the song is the mention of " I woke up and put on my lipstick ". It doesn't really much match the feeling of a Final Fantasy game, even if the lead is female.

Quote

mertinatron I'm not convinced that the games are getting worse, it could be that our tastes are changing or we aren't adapting to the changes in the games well enough. Maybe we aren't trying hard enough or we just aren't meant to be playing these games anymore.

Believe that SE is trying to change for the next generation and sorry about the bad language but not really giving a piss about it's older fans anymore. Mean pop songs instead of the usual J-pop, transformer cars for summons, more graphical cutscences than actual gameplay.. FF13 seems more suited towards today's 12- 16 year olds rather than those who grew up with FF6 or FF7. Final Fantasy XII most people who grew up with FF7 call XII a " very bad Final Fantasy game" but those who have started with FFX as their first rant about how FF12 is the best thing since sliced bread..

This post has been edited by ZidaneTribal on 5th April 2010 03:13

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Currently playing Chrono Trigger !!
Currently looking forward to Don't Know.

Quote (ZidaneTribal @ 4th April 2010 23:02)

Believe that SE is trying to change for the next generation and sorry about the bad language but not really giving a piss about it's older fans anymore. Mean pop songs instead of the usual J-pop, transformer cars for summons, more graphical cutscences than actual gameplay.. FF13 seems more suited towards today's 12- 16 year olds rather than those who grew up with FF6 or FF7.

This is the truth. 12-16 is the demographic that they want to capture because, believe it or not, Kids play games more than Adults, and that is going to be the driving source of income. Take the average 12 year old and sit him in front of, say, FFIV. That kid won't make it past the opening before setting it down for something more spastic. That's just how it is now, and us old fans have to deal with it. It's the same in every other genre of entertainment, so why should we be surprised it's happening to Video Games? Just because the medium is only about 35 or 40 years old doesn't mean it won't change.

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This is a webcomic and gaming blog where I rant about nonsense. Enjoy.

I was a soldier, now I just play one in video games.

Quote (Nytecrawla @ 5th April 2010 14:58)

Take the average 12 year old and sit him in front of, say, FFIV. That kid won't make it past the opening before setting it down for something more spastic. That's just how it is now, and us old fans have to deal with it. It's the same in every other genre of entertainment, so why should we be surprised it's happening to Video Games? Just because the medium is only about 35 or 40 years old doesn't mean it won't change.

Quote (ZidaneTribal)

FF13 seems more suited towards today's 12- 16 year olds rather than those who grew up with FF6 or FF7. Final Fantasy XII most people who grew up with FF7 call XII a " very bad Final Fantasy game" but those who have started with FFX as their first rant about how FF12 is the best thing since sliced bread..

I don't agree with either of these points of view. My brothers love FFIV, admittedly the DS version but still they'd play the original if it was available to them. They happily play any of my old PC games if they're good, like Diablo 2 and WarCraft 2. I know you're saying 'the average' but remember this is the average young RPG player or the average kid who is likely to play one, if we're talking about who buys the games. When I was young I'd pour hours of time into any game for the smallest reward. Even something tedious like an endurance race on Laguna Seca in Gran Turismo. It's not like kids have just become thicker now with a smaller attention span. There doesn't need to be a wide gap between games for adults and games for kids. The examples are endless but I'll throw out FFVI, Goldeneye, Street Fighter and Monkey Island as a selection of different genres which adults and kids both enjoyed in the past and still today.

I think it has less to do with the graphics, instant gratification and so on, and more to do with what's immediately available and what's advertised. Back when I was younger we'd buy games based on what was recommended in magazines or what somebody else already had. Kids aren't all stupid, however kids are much more easily led than adults, so recommendations in a magazine and especially adverts on TV would make them play a game. With FFXIII we've got a popular song and flashy adverts, so that's an effectively way of pulling children into it. The song is a advertising device, as SE have explicitly admitted, which is just what we've come to expect from SE of late. It's strange to think that FFXIII sold so successfully for a game that is seemingly universally received as, at the very best, above-average and nothing more, and that's misleading in itself. I believe that the big sales come from (i) the fact that it's an FF game, (ii) the advertising, (iii) the huge amount of media attention the game received, and (iv) the unjustified high review ratings. The important thing is, don't let marketing generalise your view of gamers. I bet if FFIV on the SNES was suddenly pushed in front pages of magazines and advertised extensively there would be a lot of young players today enjoying the game. In short we were lucky, we had games that were advertised and reviewed in a more proportionate relation to their quality and as a result we had it easier than kids today.

Quote (ZidaneTribal)

FF13 seems more suited towards today's 12- 16 year olds rather than those who grew up with FF6 or FF7. Final Fantasy XII most people who grew up with FF7 call XII a " very bad Final Fantasy game" but those who have started with FFX as their first rant about how FF12 is the best thing since sliced bread..

Coming back to this again, what makes you think that most people who grew up with VII don't like XII? I've never experienced this. I grew up with VII, still think it's story is unsurpassed in a lot of areas, and I also think XII is the best thing since they discovered yeast could raise the bloody bread.

This post has been edited by sweetdude on 5th April 2010 15:36

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Scepticism, that dry rot of the intellect, had not left one entire idea in his mind.

Me on the Starcraft.

Quote (ZidaneTribal @ 5th April 2010 03:02)

Final Fantasy XII most people who grew up with FF7 call XII a " very bad Final Fantasy game" but those who have started with FFX as their first rant about how FF12 is the best thing since sliced bread..

In my experiences on GameFaqs, X fans seem to be the ones who hate XII the most, and a lot of XII fans despise X.

X fans complain that XII has no story and boring characters, while XII fans complain that X is way too linear and has irritating characters (i.e Tidus has an annoying voice).

XII in general got a lot of hate before XIII was released, some general complaints being that gambits let the game play itself (fans counter this by saying gambits are optional, and haters counter this by saying that it isn't a good game if you need to ignore a large part of it for it to be fun), and that Vaan was a terrible lead character (this leads to arguments that Ashe was the main character and that Vaan was just a point of view character).

However, once XIII was released, a lot of people who tried it were disappointed and decided to give XII another chance. Many liked it more the second time around (although many said they would have liked it more if it wasn't called FF).

Most FF boards I go to on gamefaqs have the occasional "this was the last great FF, everything after was trash" topic. I think some people just get attached to one game so much that they naturally compare every other game to it and call differences flaws.

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FF games completed: I (psp), II (psp), III (DS), IV (psp), V (GBA), VI (GBA), VII, VIII, IX, X, XI: Nations-Rhapsodies of Vana'diel, XII, XIII, XIV, XV.
Spin-offs: FFIV: Interlude & The After Years, Crisis Core: FFVII, X-2, XIII-2, Lightning Returns, Type-0 HD, Dissidia, Dissidia 012, and Tactics (original & WotL).
Enjoyed them all.

Quote (sweetdude)

Coming back to this again, what makes you think that most people who grew up with VII don't like XII? I've never experienced this. I grew up with VII, still think it's story is unsurpassed in a lot of areas, and I also think XII is the best thing since they discovered yeast could raise the bloody bread.

Check around other Final Fantasy forums and Final Fantasy XII will be one of the least poplaur and it will have rants about how terrible and how unlike the rest of the other Final Fantasies XII is. Okay have seen a few people who have grown up with VII or VIII admire the game, but the result is very little. Your brothers may like playing Final Fantasy IV on the DS but have a group of friends who have been playing Final Fantasy for years and only one of them likes Final Fantasy XII and one just plays XII because of the character Larsa which is like only reading a chapter of Harry Potter just because a certain character appears ( for a example )

Quote (ILoveMoombas!)

In my experiences on GameFaqs, X fans seem to be the ones who hate XII the most, and a lot of XII fans despise X.

X fans complain that XII has no story and boring characters, while XII fans complain that X is way too linear and has irritating characters (i.e Tidus has an annoying voice).

Final Fantasy VI fans usually dislike VII and VII fans usually dislike VIII and IX fans appear out of nowhere in big groups but not every FF fan is like this because can imagine out there that a FFX fan loves XII also and the other way around. .


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Currently playing Chrono Trigger !!
Currently looking forward to Don't Know.

Quote (ZidaneTribal @ 7th April 2010 04:37)

Final Fantasy VI fans usually dislike VII and VII fans usually dislike VIII and IX fans appear out of nowhere in big groups but not every FF fan is like this because can imagine out there that a FFX fan loves XII also and the other way around.  .

I agree, I myself have enjoyed every FF game I've played so far (and yes, that includes X-2), but X & XII fans seem to be at odds with each other in general from what I've seen. Then again, GameFAQs users may not be a good representation of the general gaming community.




On the original topic of Leona Lewis (who I had never even heard of until this topic), I really don't see the inclusion of her song as a big deal. I hate "Eyes on Me", but I still love FFVIII overall. I haven't played FFXIII yet, but unless the song is played often I doubt it will have a large impact on my experience.

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FF games completed: I (psp), II (psp), III (DS), IV (psp), V (GBA), VI (GBA), VII, VIII, IX, X, XI: Nations-Rhapsodies of Vana'diel, XII, XIII, XIV, XV.
Spin-offs: FFIV: Interlude & The After Years, Crisis Core: FFVII, X-2, XIII-2, Lightning Returns, Type-0 HD, Dissidia, Dissidia 012, and Tactics (original & WotL).
Enjoyed them all.