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As we all well know here, the Final Fantasy series is very extensive, having been around for many years and moving through many phases. So, why is it that the only big bosses we ever hear about seem to be either Sephiroth or Kefka? Now, I have nothing against either of these bad boys, but what about the rest of 'em? Is there a reason everyone chooses to recall these two over others such as Garland or Ex-Death, for example? WHat is it that makes them so popular, or rather, what is it about all the others that makes them so non-popular?

Personally, I can see the allure of Kefka and Sephiroth, though personally, I'd vote in favour of Sephiroth. However, since playing FFXII, I've come to like what Vayne's bringing to the table, though I have yet to play deep enough in to become entirely enamoured. I also like our notable hero/villian/hero Delita from FFT and his drive and the ends to which he is willing to go to pursue that drive. Unlike our most popular villains, Delita came from nothing and made use of his own downtrod life to harden his heart and soul and become what he did in the end. But, we mostly all know how that ended.

Anyways, thoughts?

This post has been edited by Perigryn on 16th April 2007 02:37

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Games on the Go
Final Fantasy VII
Final Fantasy: Four Warriors of Light
Baldur's Gate

Too much to play, so little time!

Greg

Well, before Kefka, how big a part did the villains play in their respective games' plots? Next to nonexistant (at least until the end) as far as I know. Doesn't exactly make for memorable villains, now does it ? Kefka (and all subsequent villains I'm familiar with), on the other hand, was given a chance to develop as a real character. Same goes for Sephiroth, though my guess is Sephy's popularity is at least in part connected to the popularity of FFVII as a whole.

This post has been edited by Galsic on 12th April 2007 07:55

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Console RPG Cliches

I think what people tend to find excellent about Kefka and Sephiroth, is that they're human. They're human characters, with (mostly) human beginnings, with a human need for power.

We look at Ex-Death, Zeromus, and others, and we see good villains, but they aren't great. (Kuja, while [for all intents and purposes,] human, was horribly unoriginal.)

You look at Golbez, now, and there's another "human" character.

Part of what makes Tactics such a good game is the almost complete lack of a single, all powerful villain. Tactics is made up of humans, just being humans. Delita himself is a very human character, in that he has visible and understandable motives and drives, as well as his compelling back story. A lot, (of course not *all*,) of Tactics is something that you could almost see happening in real life. (If you cut out the magic of course. You know, what's left? Wars, with religion backed motives, and relics being fought over.) I could easily imagine a history book article about a war like the one pictured in the game.

The thing of it is, people like to relate to their bad guys. Everyone likes to crawl inside the heads of the characters, in games and books; even if they are megalomaniacs bent on world destruction.

When people see a character like Kefka, and he grows under their eye like he does, it gives them a greater appreciation for him, because they saw what he went through, and on some level, empathize with him. The same could be said of Sephiroth. Through various flashbacks, we learned about him, and saw his fall from sanity. By seeing it ourselves, again, we empathize with the over-compensating mama's boy.

When we see, say, Zeromous, we see 2D. (Both figuratively and physically.) He's just a guy on our screen. He appeared at the end, and I guess his motives were as good as any, and they did a really good job of tying the story together in a neat package. As a villain, he did adequately, but nobody really thinks Zeromous was all that great. He was appropriate, and I wasn't disappointed, but I sure wasn't blown away.

That's not to say a villain has to be human to be great. Other factors can come in to play here too. Take Lavos, for example. Lavos is one of my all-time favorite villains. The thing about Lavos, is, the stigma and esthetic they painted around him. One of the best parts about Lavos, was you KNEW you had to fight him, from halfway through your first visit to 2300 AD. Not only did you know WHO you were fighting, but you knew how badass he was, (because you've seen the world he's left behind in 2300 AD. The end of the world, and [according to the japanese translation,] a second ice-age,) and what was at stake if you lost. (It even had a cool little ending for when Lavos won. But The Future Refused To Change. Ring any bells?) The final part of Lavos' effectiveness, despite it's parasitic mindset, was the impact Lavos had on the world, beyond 1999 AD. I think it was hinted at that Lavos evolved us for it's own benefit.

The awesomeness of Lavos was the fact that (s)he had so much stigma about him/her. Also, the final battle with him/her did not disappoint. (Not the first time or two through anyhow.)

That's not to say there aren't other factors in what could make up a great villain. There's a lot of good qualities to look for in an antagonist.

This post has been edited by MogMaster on 12th April 2007 08:38

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If you've been mod-o-fied,
It's an illusion, and you're in-between.
Don't you be tarot-fied,
It's just alot of nothing, so what can it mean?
~Frank Zappa

Sins exist only for people who are on the Way or approaching the Way

Kefka and Sephiroth are unquestionably two of the greatest FF villains in the history of the series, but my favorite villain of all time is Kuja from FFIX.

Kuja's main reason for his unpopularity goes to his often-criticized wardrobe and being a "Sephiroth-clone) among other things. Despite this, I love his poetic words, the awesome music he is accompanied to, his wit and sarcasm, and his abilities as a character and a boss.

However, the tragedy that surrounds Kuja tips the scales in his favor for me. Sure, Sephiroth can be viewed as a tragic villain, but Kuja was created as a failure, but given a chance to carry out his pre-planned duty. He sought to prove his worthiness to his creator and would-be replacement with the things he'd done to Gaia until he found out he was to inevetiably die before long. Then, he goes on a tirade to destory all of existence until he is defeated, realizes what life really means, and helps out his nemeses before he perishes. A tragic villain and badass effiminate character.

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"Thought I was dead, eh? Not until I fulfill my dream!"
Seifer Almasy


"The most important part of the story is the ending."
Secret Window


"Peace is but a shadow of death."
Kuja

In FFIV Golbeze's the villain for the most part of the game. Then you learn that Zemus is the one you will have to face in order to save the world. But when Zemus is defeated, Zeromus appears. Nobody has ever heard of him, and he's the badass that's going to kick your ass. Motives he has? I see none.

ExDeath was a good villain. Not a very challenging one, but still. As Galsic said, we don't really see his development and that's why he's not as remembered as Kefka or Sephiroth. Also, in FFVI and FFVII we know from the beginning (more or less) who will be the final boss. And about ExDeath we learn quite late in the game. That might be an issue as well.

As for Kuja, we also get to know him late in the game. He's also not the final boss. The final boss (can't even remember it's name) was of the same kind as Zeromus. We see no motivation. When he appeared, I personally thought "What? Kuja's not the final boss? Damn, and it was such a great game..." That totally ruined the mood, if you ask me.

I agree about Lavos - my personal favourite as well. Too bad in Chrono Cross they screwed up the final boss...

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You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one...

Let's not forget these two characters are from the two most succesful, popular FFs. And some of the other bosses were lame.

Garland was only present for a short part of the game, so there's no developement or attachement to be made.

The para-whatever emperor was a bit more active but FF2 was hardly any popular due to its drastically different engine and not being released here for a long, long time.

FF3's last boss was just a filler boss that popped out of pretty much nowhere.

Zemus was one awesome villain. The problem is, we see next to nothing of him because he acts through Golbez and is only revealed about a dungeon or two away from the final area. Golbez, though, was one awesome villain.

Exdeath is a joke. I mean this guy has the power of nothing. And he just wants to destroy the world. Not only is his world-destroying power kinda dumb ("Ooooh~, I have the power of... NOTHING!"), he's very 2D and cliché. I never really liked Exdeath.

Ultimecia... well, that's from 8. Nobody liked 8. Even the people who say they do - they're just being anticonformists. It's a proven scientific fact anyway: 100% of the people who played this game will all die. Someday.

Kuja was fruity. Seriously. I'm not sure what the furry obsession with FF9 was all about, but it just wasn't as cool as the others. If you consider Mr. Spoiler the real villain of FF9 though, shame on you. They pop that one out with absolutely no build-up or foreshadowing. Bam, he's there. You fight him. The game's over. What the hell was that? :x

Sin... well, it's not very humanoid, so it's hard to associate with it in any way. Jecht's hardly a villain (though the developement he gets is awesome - all that hate from Tidus then you see what kind of person he really was through the spheres you pick up for Auron's overdrives - had he been a real villain, he'd have rocked.) Seymore is... kinda fruity-looking. And Mr. Spoiler at the very end, they practically pulled the same thing than FF9. ...Besides, the final battle is a joke.

Really, half of the villains in FF are terrible, and the other half are from games that weren't as popular as 6/7.

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

if we're calling Delita a villain, he is my favorite by far. As a person who is a fan of Sephiroth, I can say that I like for a few reasons, the wardrobe was pretty cool, his backstory was cool, he could use the most powerful magics, and the kicker - he wielded a giant katana like a wiffle ball bat.

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[img]http://img83.exs.cx:81/img83/2/ramzaanddelita2rayni7wx.jpg[/img]

Seph came to bore me later in the game. I mean really BORE me. You're a twisted, monstrous experiment? Okay, stop whining about it, we know for Lifestream's sake!

Kefka made me shiver. I'm terribly afraid of clowns, and now I actually had to face one...too easy to beat, though.

4's and 9's deus ex machina doesn't spoil the respective villains for me...And I love one thing about Golbeze:

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

Non-existant scene:
Golbeze: Cecil, I am your brother.
Cecil: Noooooooooooo, that's not possible!

12's Vayne is coming up well as a...as an antagonist. I can hardly call him a villain since

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

He wants to put the fate of men back in the hands of men (screw you, Occuria!)

- he and Cid are kickass that way. Also, Cid as an antagonist is wonderful. I hope they will get the memory and praise they deserve...

With 5 the problem is..."who in blazes IS this ExDeath guy???"...I mean...I've seen more convincing villains on cereal boxes.

Lavos, for the already mentioned reasons rocks, and I liked the part in Trigger when Magus was the main Villain.
How did Chross spoil Lavos?

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"I fell off the mountain of words at around the 10,000ft mark. Tell my family...they owe me money." -Narratorway

"If you retort against this, so help me God I'll shove any part of your anatomy I can find into some other part. Figuratively, of course." - Josh

"We have more, can deliver tuesday." - Del S

Good old CoN

Spoilers Abound

Another aspect that can sometimes make a villain seem good is novelty, or eccentricity. Take Gilgamesh, for example. Five was going along pretty standardly, here's X-Death, etc, etc, then, there's this guy with a bunch of arms and a comical personality.

You see, sometimes the effectiveness, and our perception, of a villain is influenced by how much he contrasts the the background. Where all the other villains up until this point had seen so dastardly, and humorless, suddenly, here's something that breaks the mold. A trash talking, arrogant prick, who even cracks a lame joke or two.

That's the part about Gilgamesh that got you interested in him.

His battle theme, repeat appearances, and then his outward sympathy to Galuf's demise, also lend to his character. Thus we again see the influence of esthetics and human feelings helping improve a character.

To summarize- Gilgamesh gets you interested because his contrast to the story up until that point, and makes you like him by adding comic relief, displaying human emotion, and his eventual sacrifice.

That's another thing. If a villain reforms, and it's convincing and applicable to the story, most people will like them more. See: Golbez, Magus, etc. (Shit, I even liked Seifer a little more when he called it quits.)



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If you've been mod-o-fied,
It's an illusion, and you're in-between.
Don't you be tarot-fied,
It's just alot of nothing, so what can it mean?
~Frank Zappa

Sins exist only for people who are on the Way or approaching the Way

Quote

How did Chross spoil Lavos?

That's not what I meant. Chrono Cross didn't spoil Lavos, it spoiled the final boss. Life Devourer (or whatever it was called) appears more or less like Zeromus in FFIV or the guy in FFIX. Until his appearance, you know nothing about him, you never really heard of him. Sure, it is somehow (don't really remember how) said what is he all about (like it was said in FFIV and FFIX), but that didn't convince me at all. I liked Lynx as a villain in Chrono Cross.

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You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one...

to be fair, Garland wasnt the true Villian in the origional FF for NES.... the final Boss was

<<< Chaos

i think few people got attatched to this villian because of-

-Lack of full story dialect
-Slightly confusing storyline
-And the fact that many people who have played the game, never made it this far.....

But Chaos is the origional FF baddie.... Id like to see this enemy re-appear in a new FF....... might be interesting

Quote (Final Fantasy Guru @ 13th April 2007 13:09)

to be fair, Garland wasnt the true Villian in the origional FF for NES.... the final Boss was

<<< Chaos

i think few people got attatched to this villian because of-

-Lack of full story dialect
-Slightly confusing storyline
-And the fact that many people who have played the game, never made it this far.....

But Chaos is the origional FF baddie.... Id like to see this enemy re-appear in a new FF....... might be interesting

Chaos is Garland

4 light warriors come each on with an orb, they are supposed to return the balance by restoring those orbs they held. Ok so after defeating the 4 fiends, the warriors travel 2000 years into the past only to find out the 4 fiends sent Garland back in time for him to send 4 fiends into the future creating a time loop that will last forever.

If you read well at what Garland says in the temple of fiends you will get it

Quote (tzuteng @ 13th April 2007 14:27)

Quote (Final Fantasy Guru @ 13th April 2007 13:09)

to be fair, Garland wasnt the true Villian in the origional FF for NES.... the final Boss was

<<< Chaos

i think few people got attatched to this villian because of-

-Lack of full story dialect
-Slightly confusing storyline
-And the fact that many people who have played the game, never made it this far.....

But Chaos is the origional FF baddie.... Id like to see this enemy re-appear in a new FF....... might be interesting 

Chaos is Garland

4 light warriors come each on with an orb, they are supposed to return the balance by restoring those orbs they held. Ok so after defeating the 4 fiends, the warriors travel 2000 years into the past only to find out the 4 fiends sent Garland back in time for him to send 4 fiends into the future creating a time loop that will last forever.

If you read well at what Garland says in the temple of fiends you will get it

Fair point, but still, they are 2 very seperate boss fights to say the least...

kinda like the multiple boss fights with sephiroth, where it is the same enemy, but a different form and different fight...

Chaos technically did reappear in Final Fantasy XII, albeit as an esper.

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With the lights out
It's less dangerous

Quote (A_True_Stigma @ 14th April 2007 02:03)

Chaos technically did reappear in Final Fantasy XII, albeit as an esper.

eh.... mabye it will have a nice role in FFXIII.... lol, we can only hope

Chaos also re-appeared in FF7, if you recall. He was Vincent's final limit break.

--------------------

If you've been mod-o-fied,
It's an illusion, and you're in-between.
Don't you be tarot-fied,
It's just alot of nothing, so what can it mean?
~Frank Zappa

Sins exist only for people who are on the Way or approaching the Way

I'd say the overall sentiment in this thread is that Sephiroth and Kefka get mentioned so much more because they're so much better than other FF antagonists, and I totally agree.

SPOILERS ABOUND FROM HERE:

My second-place votes go for Kuja and Seymour. I "liked" Seymour for being truly devious, even though his crimes were petty (in comparision) and his overall scheme was a little stupid. If I were Seymour, I would not have killed Jyscal, tricked Yuna into making me her fayth, then killed Yunalesca. He seemed to know a little too much about the process to not tie up those ends.

Kuja was a good villain also. He is a bit feminine, but I can forgive this because there is no voice acting in the game, and his personality is diametrically opposed to Zidane's. I also admired Kuja's adaptability. As the game progresses, so too does his plot. From manipulating Brahne and running weapons, to extracting eidolons from Garnet, to extracting them from Eiko, to gaining the power of Trance, to killing Garland, to destroying Terra, to covering Gaia with Mist, and finally to destroying the Crystal. I think a lot of this, Kuja thought up on the fly - he certainly didn't plan on destroying the world from the get-go. I also see a lot in common between Kuja and Kefka - especially when Kuja kicks Garland off that cliff into nothingness.

Runner-ups are Golbez and Edea, despite them both having "cliche" written all over them. The whole "I'm a good person being controlled by an unseen evil force who will pop out of the bushes at the end of the game" schtick is totally used up in videogameland. I give Edea extra points because I still get chills right before you fight her in Galbadia Garden and you hear the "Fithos" chant right before she appears. Very well done.

A good thing about the antagonists in FFT and FF12 is that they are very realistic in a way. For example, we all recognise the movie baddie when he is dressed all in black and ties the helpless lady to the train tracks. Ask yourself: would a person who played FFT only one time only half paying attention be able to tell you how Vormav, Wiegraf, Draclau and Elmdor fit into the storyline? It's not as cut-and-dry as "let's go get the bad guy." Personally, I thought Altima sucked as a final boss.

It's very much the same as FF12. It has all the political double-dealing (very realistic) of FFT, but not as much of the religious intrigue. I liked that the villains weren't demons or genetic experiments that went terribly wrong, they were mainly regular people with their own agendas.

To reiterate, I don't think the FF-series is hurting for good villains, the problem is that Sephka and Kefkiroth are so good that everyone else automatically becomes sub-par.

However, the Joker is still the best fictional villain ever made.

On edit - X-Death is right between Kuja/Seymour and Edea/Golbez. He doesn't have much of a personality, but he does have cool music and he was bad on his own.

This post has been edited by Asylum Outpatient on 15th April 2007 19:46

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You don't scare me, you talking blobs of oozing slop! I am impervious to pain!

i always liked kefka because he was humerous...thats about it. now sephy in my oppinion was a little.........fruity. with his long, flowing locks of silver hair and deep green eyes....its a little much. now my personal favy villians are Kuja, because his trance fight was epic for me (i didnt train), Seifer because i would purposely make the fights epic, by doing things like taking off GFs, giving Squall the Revolver, killing off the team. it was awesome

Edit

im lucky!!! 777th post

This post has been edited by dont chocobos rule? on 16th April 2007 00:55

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Aujourdhui a commence avec toi.

I think MM is right. Kefka and Sephiroth are such popular villains because they're gimmicky.

Quote (Galsic @ 12th April 2007 03:51)

Well, before Kefka, how big a part did the villains play in their respective games' plots?  Next to nonexistant (at least until the end) as far as I know.  Doesn't exactly make for memorable villains, now does it ?  Kefka (and all subsequent villains I'm familiar with), on the other hand, was given a chance to develop as a real character.  Same goes for Sephiroth, though my guess is Sephy's popularity is at least in part connected to the popularity of FFVII as a whole.

Uhh.. in I and III, the enemies popped out at the end, but the rest of the games introduced them early enough so that they had a major impact on the progression of the game. In the other two, the enemies, though unidentified, were the driving force behind the game. All video games are just a set up for a confrontation.

The kind of villain that considers himself above the heroes and doesn't get his hands dirty are far better, IMO.

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"I had to write four novels before they let me write comic books."
-Brad Meltzer

Quote (Asylum Outpatient @ 15th April 2007 14:35)

Personally, I thought Altima sucked as a final boss.

I agree with that.

I've come to recognize another factor with all this discussion. Kefka and Sephiroth are the only ones that "evolved" into another form to become the final boss. They remained the final boss all the way through. A lot of the other antagonists we've talked about did not remain the final boss, Garland being an exception. But it also seem to be that this factor, of villains remaining as THE villain is a factor that allows them to remain believable throughout the game and make us more sympathetic to them and their causes.

A lot of the FF series bosses, now that I think about it, do have a habit of pulling a random final boss out of a hat.

"Now here's something we think you'll REALLY like."

Oh Rocky and Bullwinkle.

Anyways, it's the games that stay true to their antagonist that we appreciate them for. I mean, of course I don't mean they are 100% THE villain, because often the lead antagonist's plan is to summon an even greater villain to fork things up. For example, there's Magus, given all this talk of Lavos, after all. I thought he was a very interesting villain, if a little masked. Too much bad ass mask, but it was still appreciated.

So, what do we think is the reason for these last minute bosses? Do they simply make them because they don't think the villain we've been led to see is powerful or strange or frightening enough, or because they want to throw in one more wacky and estranged beasty. But, another thought comes to mind as I think on all this: as the games have progressed through the systems, more and more side-quests and hidden beasts have been added in. Perhaps these former villains, if they had been explored nowadays, would have been side-quests as well?

I dunno'... Just a thought.

Furthermore, I agree with what people have had to say about us relating to the 'human' qualities. I especially appreciate and agree with that in FFT and XII. They have been doing an effective job of making their characters more and more believable and realistic as the years have rolled on.

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Games on the Go
Final Fantasy VII
Final Fantasy: Four Warriors of Light
Baldur's Gate

Too much to play, so little time!

Greg

as far as the bosses go - I'd say think of sephiroth and one of the multiple bosses as the same thing - they're just trying to make the last fight as big as they can, so they stretch it out with another monster. As far as sephiroth goes, they came up with the idea of having it be the same person, just to different forms. In the end, i think 'bigness' is the reason for the multiple stage bosses.

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[img]http://img83.exs.cx:81/img83/2/ramzaanddelita2rayni7wx.jpg[/img]

Quote (Perigryn @ 15th April 2007 22:07)

I've come to recognize another factor with all this discussion. Kefka and Sephiroth are the only ones that "evolved" into another form to become the final boss.

What about Zemus, who becomes Zeromus? (There was a bit of foreshadowing leading up to him - he doesn't quite pop up out of nowhere but he does make an appearance slightly late into the game.)

Garland, who turns into Chaos (you did mention that one but I'm just adding it to the list nonetheless)?

Exdeath, who becomes this tree thing after being a "normal" humanoid person throughout the entire game?

Ultimecia, who merges with Griever at the end? (Same deal as Zeromus though.)

Seymore has an awful lot of forms despite not being the last boss. Even Kuja goes into trance mode, if that counts... Haven't finished 12 yet (right at the end and not really bothering to beat the last boss) but I believe he transforms as well.

I think your theory has a few holes in it man. I do agree that last minute bosses are pretty much, in a nutshell, lame, though. Necron certainly had me wtf-ing all over the place. :x I think that Kuja transforming into another form (Necron) would've been easier to buy than, "Oh hey, I'm like... this evil boss thingie laying in wait at the end of existence. Hi, nice to meet you, let's fight."

This post has been edited by Silverlance on 16th April 2007 04:23

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

Quote (Silverlance @ 15th April 2007 23:19)

I think your theory has a few holes in it man.

Yeah, I'd agree with you there because I'm not yet an FF officianado. While I do own all the games up to IX, I've only beaten I, VII and Tactics and I'm near completion on the rest. Most of what I based the above on is what I've heard from the games over the years and during this post. Admittedly, I should have done some more research, but this post was very impulse. Regardless, I like the questions coming up and being raised and discussed, as you've done, my good Silverlance, though I often like what you have to say since you seem a clever devil. You clever devil, you.

You raise a good point that there are more with "multiforms", though I guess I was more referring to the final forms being THE final boss. Seymore and, as I understand it, Kuja aren't the end all be all of the game, for example. I guess Zeromus is, though as you said, comes from nowhere.

That's what I was more trying to insinuate, just likely didn't articulate it well last night given my tired state and foul mood. Plus, as mentioned above, I'm not as intimately involved with all the games just yet, as much as I adore playing them all.

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Games on the Go
Final Fantasy VII
Final Fantasy: Four Warriors of Light
Baldur's Gate

Too much to play, so little time!

Greg

Quote (Perigryn @ 16th April 2007 16:03)

While I do own all the games up to IX, I've only beaten I, VII and Tactics and I'm near completion on the rest.

Well, I guess you're off the hook then.

Quote

you seem a clever devil

Bah, I'm hardly the brightest pickle in the jar. Which doesn't make much sense, but whatever.

Quote

You raise a good point that there are more with "multiforms", though I guess I was more referring to the final forms being THE final boss. Seymore and, as I understand it, Kuja aren't the end all be all of the game, for example. I guess Zeromus is, though as you said, comes from nowhere.

Well, Zeromus gets a slight bit of developement after you arrive on the moon, though that occures relatively close to the end of the game. It's nowhere as bad as FF9, by a long shot, but it carries a slight "well-what-now-oh-I-know-let's-add-a-random-but-important-plot-twist" feeling.

Neither Seymore nor Kuja are the end-game bosses, but they do serve as the main villains in those games. I suppose it depends wether we're discussing villains or the actual end bosses though.

Have fun discovering the FFs you haven't beaten yet - and shame on you for not having played through VI yet.

--------------------

"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

WARNING! SPOILERS for those who have never beaten FF1-9
I'm in the defense against the "anti-exdeath" group. IMO, a real villain doesn't need anything but a motive that makes him think it's the right decision, decieving someone, and destroying everything you cared for. THAT's the villain I like there. And no, he or she does NOT have to be human or even an alien from another planet.

My rundown evaluation on villains from FF1-9:

Garland:

• He's kidnapped a princess to piss the Cornerians off and knock the Light Warriors down.

Emperor:

• Let's see... He kicks people out of Fynn Castle to rule over
• His men complete the Dreadnought and it destroys alot of villages
• Then he becomes satanic and sells his soul to demons

Zande:

• Questioned his own pride as a human
• He hated being human so much that he took his pain against everyone to destroy both the dark and light crystals to end all existence.

Zemus:

• Zemus controls random people's "minds" to cause destruction on earth from his comfy sofa in the moon's core
• He then decides to USE ANGER AND HUFF PUFF DESTROY PUFF PLANETS PUFF

Exdeath:

• Like Zemus, Exdeath controls a few minds from his comfy sofa inside Butz's first world's core to break the crystals
• After he was released finally, he heads over to Galuf's world to destroy the other four
• He kills Galuf, decieves Gilgamesh
• And like Zande, instead of feeling anxious, he goes greedy for having power to remove presences, and goes on a rampage spree

Kefka:

• A silly pawn of Gestahl who enjoys wars and "seeing people burn things up"
• Lies to and decieves both General Leo and Emperor Gestahl
• Becomes a "god", then brings "light of judgement" to those who disobey him

Sephiroth:

• Once a hero until he discovered about the Cetra
• Pissed off in his own shame, he threatens to ressurect Jenova to "reclaim" their karma of importance.
• He burns down Nibelheim because he's gone mad

Ultimecia:

• Weird lady who wants to "compress time"
• She wants to make everyone her "slaves"

Kuja:

• Whiney brat that used Queen Brahne to bring war to the globe
• After decieving her, he goes mad when Garland tells him he cannot live immortally
• Decides to do the Zande

As you can see, Exdeath and Kefka are both my favorite villains. I did enjoy Kuja and Zande a bit, but definitely not Ultimecia. So like I said, it's all about the personality that drives them into doing things that makes us angry and detest.

i dont understand why everyone hated Ultimecia
she had the most senseable plan
to compress time and take everyone that existed and use them for her own purposes as slaves
its better that destroying all existince(including themselves) like some other villians
plus she was a quite hot, excluding her hair style


thoguh i did like Kefka better
she is my second favorite

This post has been edited by Cow_Of_The_Opera on 17th April 2007 01:24

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delete me

Quote (Cow_Of_The_Opera @ 16th April 2007 20:22)

she had the most senseable plan
to compress time and take everyone that existed and use them for her own purposes as slaves

Have you considered for even a second what "compressing time" means and how it relates to making people slaves?

We're supposed to believe that taking time and compressing it into a singular moment where everything exists at the same time will transform people into slaves? How? Sure it's impressive, but where's the link between compressing time and making people slaves? If you have the power to compress time across every moment in existence, then why not take the scenic route and just overthrow all world governments with sheer brute magical force? For that matter, if you're that powerful, why would you even need slaves anyway?

And let's be honest here: if time were compressed, then the repercussions of it would be felt across all periods of time, including Squall and Ultimecia's respective "present." But they aren't. Victory, or failure in Ultimecia's case, is assured.

Sense made from this: zero. I'm sorry, but this IS FF8 after all... It is my sacred duty to be an elitist about how it should've never been. No hard feelings mate, you're alright.

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

Quote (Silverlance @ 17th April 2007 02:12)

Quote (Cow_Of_The_Opera @ 16th April 2007 20:22)

she had the most senseable plan
to compress time and take everyone that existed and use them for her own purposes as slaves

Have you considered for even a second what "compressing time" means and how it relates to making people slaves?

We're supposed to believe that taking time and compressing it into a singular moment where everything exists at the same time will transform people into slaves? How? Sure it's impressive, but where's the link between compressing time and making people slaves? If you have the power to compress time across every moment in existence, then why not take the scenic route and just overthrow all world governments with sheer brute magical force? For that matter, if you're that powerful, why would you even need slaves anyway?

And let's be honest here: if time were compressed, then the repercussions of it would be felt across all periods of time, including Squall and Ultimecia's respective "present." But they aren't. Victory, or failure in Ultimecia's case, is assured.

Sense made from this: zero. I'm sorry, but this IS FF8 after all... It is my sacred duty to be an elitist about how it should've never been. No hard feelings mate, you're alright.

she said she'd take then to a different demision
and it be easier to get everone at one that way
im not gonna argue
i just like how technical it is instead of the "destroy everything" plan
but you have your opinions and i have mine

This post has been edited by Cow_Of_The_Opera on 17th April 2007 02:26

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delete me

Quote (Cow_Of_The_Opera @ 16th April 2007 21:25)

i just like how technical it is instead of the "destroy everything" plan
but you have your opinions and i have mine

True true, it is a better developed plan than others we have seen, if ill defended and researched. But hey, it IS a video game world which entitles its creators to do as they please. As was said in the FFVII: AC commentaries, "anything goes" in the world they've made. Really, they don't have to conform to the strict boundaries of the world we live in, which is interesting cause at the same time the really haven't stepped that far out of them either.

Anyways.

Quote (Silverlance)

I suppose it depends wether we're discussing villains or the actual end bosses though.

True. I shifted to that a moment in the conversation. But in truth, we are talking about the leading villains through and through, and those are them whom Neo-exdeath so elaborated on, excluding a few. I was merely stating that people seem to prefer the villains that remain the focal point from beginning to end for the obvious reasons that they are, normally, well developed in that time.

Also, I'm close to ending FFVI and FFV, just haven't gotten there yet. I've been distracted by FFIII and other things in life currently, but I will! I promise you! Then I'll have a broader sense of the baddies FF worldwide.

On that note, Xande's barely mentioned in FFIII until you hit up the other world, eh? Again, these crazy outta' nowhere bosses, so to say. It's only until then that you see the real focus of everything. At the same time, though, I guess that supplies a little bit of mystery, so it all depends on your take on what you want from a villain: someone present, believable and human, or something behind-the-scenes, omnipresent and conducting the scenario as they see fit until they are finally unveiled in their final glorious moment.

This post has been edited by Perigryn on 17th April 2007 03:35

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Games on the Go
Final Fantasy VII
Final Fantasy: Four Warriors of Light
Baldur's Gate

Too much to play, so little time!

Greg

Quote (Perigryn @ 17th April 2007 04:34)

Really, they don't have to conform to the strict boundaries of the world we live in, which is interesting cause at the same time the really haven't stepped that far out of them either.

Apart from the running up walls, and the absolutely insane jumps, not to mention the 'throw up' they give Cloud at the end.