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Quote (SilverMaduin @ 13th March 2009 05:52)

Third: a lot of you guys seem to think, that a single hit from the Gungir would be enough to kill Bahamut and that the Gungir can't act as a lightning rod. Why is that?

My logic is that the spear is going into his heart. Usually having something go straight through your heart is death.

As for Gungnir being a lightning rod, I didn't consider it for a few reasons. First, perhaps the entire shaft isn't made of a conductor. Maybe part of the shaft is wood and just the tip is metal. Even if it got struck by lightning, in this case he wouldn't be harmed. Also, we could assume it is made out of some legendary Nordic material that is both unbreakable and not electrically conductive.

Second, if you picture a javelin thrower, they don't charge with it pointed upwards towards the sky like a general would carry a sword. They might run/ride with it level to the ground, but when they throw it, they stoop that shoulder down low to get a good angle. This is especially true if your target is above the Earth's atmosphere and you really need to launch it upwards. Holding it above your head will not help much in this case.

Third, Gungnir is only in his hands for a short time. This had better be an absolutely wicked thunderstorm to snipe Odin's spear the moment that it reaches above the rest of his body, because is will only take 1-2 seconds to wind up and hurl the spear out of his grasp.

So combining all of this, the lightning needs to target his spear as the shorter route to become grounded instead of picking the dragon that is flying within the thunder clouds himself. The spear needs to be made entirely of something that conducts electricity since it will his the tip and Odin is grasping farther along the shaft, and the lightning must strike basically immediately because Odin is throwing Gungnir as soon as he sees Bahamut.

Edit

Edit: I just realized that the setting is an open field on a rainy day. It doesn't even mention lightning there. The lightning arose from Bahamut "controlling the weather". There's a good chance this won't even be present, so Odin likely won't have to worry about it at all anyways.

This post has been edited by Caesar on 13th March 2009 19:40

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Is PJ

Oden! Err, I mean, Odin!

Bahamut isn't any ordinary dragon, he's the king of dragons, and the god of summons. I imagine he would be able to knock Gungir aside or even catch it, and a megaflare doesn't even need to remotely score a direct hit to have devastating effects.


Bahamut gets my vote.

Dang, finally, an interesting WNF.

Bahamut is the Dragon-God of the Light, in my (joke) religion. (Ridley is Dragon-God of the Darkness, and Leviathan is Dragon-God of the Sea and everything else in between.)

Also, Bahamut is a boss. You know what happens when you try to instant-KO bosses.

Since Bahamut is a boss, Zantetsuken (or however that's spelled) will end up being used automatically, dealing far too little damage even in the five turns over which Bahamut will be charging his lazor.

Bahamut wins. Summonality.

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Check the "What games are you playing at the moment?" thread for updates on what I've been playing.

You can find me on the Fediverse! I use Mastodon, where I am @[email protected] ( https://sakurajima.moe/@glennmagusharvey )

Odin, all the way. I would give a better description, but everything I have to say has already been said above. Bahamut takes forever to charge, Odin gallops in on the trusty steed (6 legs=33% faster?) and rocks his world. Game, set and match!

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Currently Playing : Final Fantasy V
Most Recently Beat : Elder Scrolls: Skyrim
Favorite Game : Final Fantasy X

The newest CoNcast is up! Have a listen!

Quote (Death Penalty @ 16th March 2009 18:43)

Odin, all the way. I would give a better description, but everything I have to say has already been said above. Bahamut takes forever to charge, Odin gallops in on the trusty steed (6 legs=33% faster?) and rocks his world. Game, set and match!

Actually, I think Bahamut merely waits for you in order to give you a chance.

I doubt he actually needs the time to charge his attack. Observe when Rydia summons him: He just stops by and delivers his GigaNuke of a beating.

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Check the "What games are you playing at the moment?" thread for updates on what I've been playing.

You can find me on the Fediverse! I use Mastodon, where I am @[email protected] ( https://sakurajima.moe/@glennmagusharvey )

I vote Odin, but it seems Bahamut might take the win anyway.

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Climhazzard is the timeless evil robot who runs some of the cool stuff at CoN (mostly logging chat, since there are no quizzes at the moment), all the while watching and waiting for his moment to take over the world. -Tiddles

The results of last week's fight:

This hotly debated fight was well worthy of its acclaim. Bahamut cracked off flare after flare to the highly evasive Odin. The legendary knight got more than a couple hits in with his Gungnir. But was it all enough?

Voter Distribution
CoN Crew: 8 - 5, Odin
LiveJournal: 3 - 1, Bahamut
Facebookies: 4 - 1, Bahamut
Ready AIM Fire: 10 - 8, Odin
Team Target: 5 - 3, Odin
GoogleFight: +1, Odin

Total: 26 - 23

Winner, by the skin of his teeth... the beholder of the Zantetsuken and the true aim of Gungnir...

Odin

Hotly contested, and greatly debated. But onto this week's fight...


Some of you may notice the fight coming a little early this week. As I will be incapacitated tomorrow night, we bring you this special round of Tuesday Night Fight!

This week features the second Special Request fight of the year, this one brought to you by a voting member of Team Target: Chris W.

In the RED Corner...



Dante

Where you've seen him: The protagonist in the highly popular Devil May Cry series.

The badass behind one of the top grossing Playstation titles is our first competitor. Quick with a blade, and quicker with his reflexes, Dante is a formidable competitor for anyone. He slays demons to avenge his mother, all the while minding his store. A true advocate of hack and slash heroism.


And his opponent... in the BLUE corner...



Gungrave

Where you've seen him: Rocking the world in the eponymous Playstation title and subsequent anime series.

In protecting Mika from the hands of "Bloody" Harry McDowell, Grave pronounces himself as a powerhouse of magnificent proportions. Wielding a series of destructive guns, Grave is not one to be arsed with. Otherwise the coffin he carries on his back will carry the next victim.

How this fight came to be: Even after Harry is defeated, Mika isn't safe. It's up to Grave to protect her from all incoming threats... including against Dante, convinced that they are demons ready for his slaying.

Battle Tactics: The favor has to be with Grave on this one. When pitting guns vs. swords, the former will always have a better chance. That said, do not consider it impossible for Dante. He's faced bigger, badder demons than Grave. The man is skilled enough to take a couple bullets with just a flinch.

It's an easy strategy for Grave: shoot that mother. He's got an entire arsenal to back him up. He's jut got to hit his target.. multiple times.

Setting: Millenion Headquarters.

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"When I turn the page
The corner bends into the perfect dog ear
As if the words knew I'd need them again
But at the time, I didn't see it."

~"This Ain't a Surfin' Movie" - Minus the Bear

Grave has a mighty arsenal up his sleeve, but it's not like Dante can't fire back. Also, if Grave chooses to use his launcher, it may prove to be his greatest mistake, since it would give Dante time to speed in (dodging all the time) and slice him open. Grave isn't a wuss at close combat, either, slamming his coffin-launcher into enemies with great speed and strenght, but Dante's taken bigger hits and asked for more.

A pretty even fight, but my vote goes to
Dante

P.S. A non-point in this debate, but Grave is also more of showoff than Dante, which must be SOME kind of achievement.

This post has been edited by SilverMaduin on 18th March 2009 09:51

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"I fell off the mountain of words at around the 10,000ft mark. Tell my family...they owe me money." -Narratorway

"If you retort against this, so help me God I'll shove any part of your anatomy I can find into some other part. Figuratively, of course." - Josh

"We have more, can deliver tuesday." - Del S

Good old CoN

Are you implying that Dante has no guns in his arsenal, good sir? He has a FREAKING DEMON SUITCASE THAT TRANSFORMS INTO DIFFERENT GUNS. And that's only in one game. The result: Dante goes into DT and fires so many guitar lightning bats that Grave bites the dust. But I'm a borderline fanboy, so this was too easy.

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this is a blog mostly about comics and videogames
END SPOILER

Well going on the picture, because I don't really care to investigate Gungrave any further, he's got a severe handicap in that one of his legs is bigger than the other. I think that's just about as good a reason as any to lose a fight.

The last fight was a cracker. Although I'm a bit amazed Bahamut lost in the end. Just shows how everyone has a different perspective of FF summons.

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Scepticism, that dry rot of the intellect, had not left one entire idea in his mind.

Me on the Starcraft.

Based off of looks id go gungrave. He looks cooler.

I give it to Brandon Heat. Based entirely on combat capabilities, Brandon has the advantage. Dante is arrogant, reckless and while he's both agile and strong, he's also terribly naive.

Brandon, however, was humble, timid and cunning. Toward SMad's comment, uh, what? He's hardly a show off at all, nor is he even remotely the braggart that Dante is. What with his massive arsenal of guns, his sheer necrolyzed physical strength and keen senses, he's more than a match for the red-leather fetishist and anti-hero icon.

The Son of Sparda's advantages are limited to his ability to transform into a devil, his unreasonable pain threshold and his versatility in terms of weapon-combat. These would surely give him the fight, were it not for that naivity and recklessness he so often displays. Besides, Brandon has fought off Necrolyzed Monsters, giant freaks and the Mob.

I'd rather piss off all of hell than the Mob. Just sayin'.

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Okay, but there was a goat!

Quote (Dragon_Fire @ 19th March 2009 07:11)

Toward SMad's comment, uh, what? He's hardly a show off at all...

He POSES while SHOOTING HIS ENEMIES. I don't know the anime series, but whenever I look at the game I just can't play it because of how exaggaretedly Grave is moving when he effing shoots his guns.

This post has been edited by SilverMaduin on 19th March 2009 06:57

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"I fell off the mountain of words at around the 10,000ft mark. Tell my family...they owe me money." -Narratorway

"If you retort against this, so help me God I'll shove any part of your anatomy I can find into some other part. Figuratively, of course." - Josh

"We have more, can deliver tuesday." - Del S

Good old CoN

The results of last week's fight....

The red caped hunters brought it hard. But in the end, the casket of Grave wasn't just used for his weapons. That being there might not have been enough of him to fit inside the coffin.

VOTER DISTRIBUTION
CoN Crew: 3-2, Dante
LiveJournal: 0-0
Facebookies: 1.5 (3 half-votes) - 0, Dante
Ready AIM Fire: 13.5 (4 half-votes) - 5.5 (1 half-vote), Dante
Team Target: 2 - 2, tie
GoogleFight: +1, Dante

Total: 20 - 9.5

Your winner... Dante


This week's fight features a tag team of recognizable figures. You might say they might as well be looking in a mirror.

In the RED corner... protectors of Middle Earth...



Legolas & Elrond

Where you've seen them: rocking the elven bow in the Lord of the Rings trilogy.

String up your bows, pointy eared gentlemen. It's time once again to engage in battle. But this time, it's not against orcs or the minions of Sauron for the sake of hobbits. No, no, fearless woodland inhabitants. This is for pride and glory!


In the BLUE corner... swashbuckling corsairs, albeit of a different nature...



Will Turner & "V"

Where you've seen them: Swapping steel and throwing knives in the Pirates of the Caribbean series and V For Vendetta respectively.

For Will Turner, it was all about getting onto the high seas, just like his dad. But a run in with Jack Sparrow, Captain Barbosa, and tentacle faced Davey Jones turned him from sailor into full on pirate. And V, well he wanted to do was take down an oppressive government by hucking knives at everyone. Nothing wrong with that.

How this fight came to be: Identity fraud... it has to be. How else can you explain that the two tag teams are, in fact, the SAME TWO PEOPLE!

Battle Tactics: Elves are natural born fighters. With their impressive accuracy with a bow, many forget they are proficient with a sword as well. But the latter is far less exceptional, especially in the face of a proficient fighter like Will Turner. And V can certainly turn the tides with his brutally efficient knives.

Setting: Middle Earth.

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"When I turn the page
The corner bends into the perfect dog ear
As if the words knew I'd need them again
But at the time, I didn't see it."

~"This Ain't a Surfin' Movie" - Minus the Bear

The Elves would kill the other two before they even got within 2 football fields!!! I vote Legolas & Elrond! Kind of funny to see Bloom fight against himself LOL.

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Climhazzard is the timeless evil robot who runs some of the cool stuff at CoN (mostly logging chat, since there are no quizzes at the moment), all the while watching and waiting for his moment to take over the world. -Tiddles

"We could have shot you in the dark for how loud you were breathing, dwarf."

Seriously, the elves have got this one locked in. It's not even a contest. Will Turner might be a good swordsman but he's still only just a human, one who has never fought an elf and thus would not know what to expect. One arrow, lights out, goodnight.

V, well, he's a much easier foe to tackle. Knifes, especially throwing knifes, are only good for mid-to-close range and are much more difficult to manage than, say, firing an arrow from hundreds of yards away like the Elves can do. Even in close range combat, the elves are faster, more agile and have HUNDREDS OF YEARS OF EXPERIENCE.

This is something I cannot stress enough. Elves are not easy to make dead and are otherwise immortal. Elrond himself is thousands of years old and fought in more than one great war. His cunning and knowledge rivals those of the wizards, even.

Simply put, this isn't a fight. It's a massacre.

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Okay, but there was a goat!

Hahahaha, I couldn't have said it better myself DF!

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Climhazzard is the timeless evil robot who runs some of the cool stuff at CoN (mostly logging chat, since there are no quizzes at the moment), all the while watching and waiting for his moment to take over the world. -Tiddles

I'm having a hard time on this one.
On one side it's what DF said: it's Tolkien's Elves, which are made of kickass and this fight features one of the most kickass among them and Legolas.

And then we have two blokes who are completely different:
One has faced impossible odds, fought against the undead and other non-human beings, brought a person back from the netherworld and Jack Sparrow keeps radiating awesomeness on him.

The other guy kicks ass and quotes Shakespeare. At the same time.

But let's start at the begginning.
If it's an identity dispute, then I doubt we're giving the elves full bow range as a benefit. We WANT to see the fight, so they fight when they see each other. As in up close.
Second, the Elves are killing machines, yes, but they have never, EVER faced foes like these two.
Bill Turner is a Pirate and The Hero in a swashbuckling tale. That means there's more to him than his courage and fighting prowess. There's the narrative, which can as well screw him over, but is still a force to be reckoned with. Also, if we're talking post-World's End Bill then the fight's one-sided the other way around, since Bill's an unkillable eternal sailor.
And then there's V, who will perplex and terrify many of his opponnents by the sheer calmness of his speech during a heated battle. And he will quote Shakespeare in that voice of his, which IS a battle factor. And finally, he's kind of similiar to Kratos - he will refuse to die until his job is done, his tenacity is hard to match.

I give it to the duo who weren't born broken(12) and overpowered.

Bill Turner & V win.

This post has been edited by SilverMaduin on 26th March 2009 21:21

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"I fell off the mountain of words at around the 10,000ft mark. Tell my family...they owe me money." -Narratorway

"If you retort against this, so help me God I'll shove any part of your anatomy I can find into some other part. Figuratively, of course." - Josh

"We have more, can deliver tuesday." - Del S

Good old CoN

Quote (SilverMaduin @ 26th March 2009 03:16)

I'm having a hard time on this one.
On one side it's what DF said: it's Tolkien's Elves, which are made of kickass and this fight features one of the most kickass among them and Legolas.

And then we have two blokes who are completely different:
One has faced impossible odds, fought against the undead and other non-human beings, brought a person back from the netherworld and Jack Sparrow keeps radiating awesomeness on him.

The other guy kicks ass and quotes Shakespeare. At the same time.

But let's start at the begginning.
If it's an identity dispute, then I doubt we're giving the elves full bow range as a benefit. We WANT to see the fight, so they fight when they see each other. As in up close.
Second, the Elves are killing machines, yes, but they have never, EVER faced foes like these two.
Bill Turner is a Pirate and The Hero in a swashbuckling tale. That means there's more to him than his courage and fighting prowess. There's the narrative, which can as well screw him over, but is still a force to be reckoned with. Also, if we're talking post-World's End Bill then the fight's one-sided the other way around, since Bill's an unkillable eternal sailor.
And then there's V, who will perplex and terrify many of his opponnents by the sheer calmness of his speech during a heated battle. And he will quote Shakespeare in that voice of his, which IS a battle factor. And finally, he's kind of similiar to Kratos - he will refuse to die until his job is done, his tenacity is hard to match.

I give it to the duo who weren't born Mary-Sues.

Bill Turner & V win.

Calling the elves Mary-Sues makes me want to set your home on fire, just saying.

This isn't about the narrative, nor is it about the plot or who the hero is. This is a simple, bare-bones fight and the question is, when the chips are all on the table, who would win?

Now, if you believe that V and Will have the kind of ability to outmaneuver, overpower and outsmart the two elves, that's fine, but do so because you think they're better fighters, not because you think they're awesome for quoting Shakespeare and held the spotlight in their respective appearances.

I very much doubt that simple talk and a calm demeanor, both traits that elves commonly exhibit, is going to be enough to rattle the 6000+ year old Elven Lord, nor do I think that Will Turner has the experience or the stamina to hold his own against the light-footed, intensely rapid Legolas.

Keep in mind that the elves have battled men before, men of great skill and caliber, as well as hosts of other things. (Orcs, Ogres, Trolls, Dark Lords)

Whereas the most V can brag is having thrown knives and police and Will has won sword fights against fish.

Advantage in nearly every regard goes to the Elves.

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Okay, but there was a goat!

If Will's heart is not in Middle Earth, then there is no way to kill him. And V is smart enough to use it to their advantage. Elves are well trained, true, but they have never fought an enemy so intelligent and therefore they simply won't be able to figure out what is happening. And let's remember that Will is a pirate while the elves would never break rules to win. They won't even see it coming.

Will and V win.

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You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one...

This will be my last comment before I give up.

Just because you can't kill your opponent doesn't mean he can't be beaten. For instance, you can behead him, pin him to a wall with arrows, severely dismember him, etc, etc. Unkillable does not mean unbeatable, unless you have absolutely no imagination whatsoever.

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Okay, but there was a goat!

This battle is heavily in favour of the Elves, Turner and V don't have much against them. Now, if it was against Will and Agent Smith, now, that'd be far more interesting, but since it's not...

Legolas & Elrond win

I'm torn. I love the first Pirates movie, didn't like the second, and never saw the third. I really liked the first LOTR movie, didn't like the second, and liked the third even less. I saw V for Vendetta and thought it was pretty good.

But to hell with movies, those don't matter. Will's a teenager with some good sword skills and V is a vigilante in his 30s or 40s with some good knife skills. Legolas and Elrond are both hundreds-plus years old and master soldiers, archers, and trackers that probably also have elven magic available to wield. And it's also set in Middle Earth, parts of which Legolas and Elrond know like the backs of their hands. I'm going with the elves on this one.

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this is a blog mostly about comics and videogames
END SPOILER

As much as it pains me to say so, I'm with Mike. Put Smith in there and it would be highly, highly entertaining to say the least. As it is, though, you get a schemer and an undead swordsman. Both of which are potent in their own environs, sure, but against an elf that has survived since before the first coming of Sauron and an elf who is obviously the former's most talented protege, it's silly to think this would last longer than it took me to type this post.

And I'd be curious to see if anyone else had ever called the elves Mary-Sues before. That's a pretty bold statement.

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"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN?

I remember V walking out of a burning building with no clothes on. In fact, I think he was on fire. I don't think some poxy arrows are going to have much effect if you can survive your balls being burned. Speaking of which, the two Blooms are too pretty to have seen any real combat. I reckon they've just been skipping around in woods and sailing boats for the past half a millennia before they heard the word 'war'. I'm voting V and the other one because the elves can't bring down a solid man-shaped lump of what seems to be molten rock.

This post has been edited by sweetdude on 26th March 2009 18:52

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Scepticism, that dry rot of the intellect, had not left one entire idea in his mind.

Me on the Starcraft.

Edit

I disarm the Mary-Sue term, but leave my point here

Perfect aim at distances most other races can't even see the target? Superior endurance and agility? Practically eternal? And the most beautiful race in the world to boot? Broken and overpowered.

And now let me make some valid statements to defend my point pertaining to the topic at hand, that is, the battle:

V is a goddamn phoenix of a man. He was reborn in a prison fire and nothing, NOTHING will stop him until he reaches his goal. He can take absurd amounts of damage, dodge or deflect most things coming his way and seriously, if he wears body armor, then it's hard for me to believe, that the mask isn't armored itself. He also has the wicked tendency to go for the vitals without warning and disappear into the night a lot. Also, he makes splendid bacon and eggs, which is a non-point, but I wanted to mention it non-the-less.

Question: you say the Elves have fought [insert alloted list of monster species here], but the thing is, all those things are NOT uncommon in their world.

Bill has fought his world's supernatural forces (the kind you wouldn't usually meet) and emerged (kind of) victorious. And he GOT MARRIED during an effing SEA BATTLE.

As to my "The Hero" point, what I believe you missed, were the capital letters. Bill comes from a pirate story, and is The Hero, as in The Archetype of Character Known as The Hero, which means the narrative, which is Fate Itself for characters of fiction, favours him. And once you have Fate Itself backing you up (or at least making you look good in a battle), there's very little that can be done to you.

As to Elrond, I really don't have much to say, except the fact that I really, REALLY didn't like Hugo Weaving's rendition of the character.

P.S. What the Hell happenned to Glorfindel?!?

P.P.S. Sabin's post right under mine reminded me - Bill has, and can use to some good effect, two pistols (or was it one?), sure that's only one-two shots, judging by the time it would take to reload them, and they'd give him a hell of an advantage at medium range. Also, mentioning Smith here is pointless, since he's to this fight like Ratchet&Clank were to the battle the Kongs proudly won: on a completely different plane of existence.

This post has been edited by SilverMaduin on 26th March 2009 21:19

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"I fell off the mountain of words at around the 10,000ft mark. Tell my family...they owe me money." -Narratorway

"If you retort against this, so help me God I'll shove any part of your anatomy I can find into some other part. Figuratively, of course." - Josh

"We have more, can deliver tuesday." - Del S

Good old CoN

For those who suggested Agent Smith be a part of this fight, well...

A long time ago in WNF's wee stages, there was a fight between Agent Smith and Elrond (here). The result was actually a tie, 6 - 6 - 2 (yes, two people automatically declared ties. Weird set up that was).

But I do want to post what Dragon_Fire 's response was to that fight, and ask him to defend his choice now.

From Elrond v. Agent Smith:

"Elrond is over rated. Sure, he's got elven senses but that comes from being totally intune with his enviroment and the nature around him. Being on neutral ground, he wouldn't be so sharp. He's got archery on his side but I mean...Smith dodges bullets from a f***n' machine gun. I doubt arrows pose much of a threat.

I know Kung-Fu? More like Kung-pwn.

Smith has fighting prowess, unnatural strength and endurance, speed and not to mention; the snazzy suit and glasses ensemble. Did anyone see that mofo fight? He'd probably be able to take Elrond, his mother, his grandmother and her senile friend Petunia without even breaking his first corny line. "Mr. Elrond...." "

Singing a vastly different tune now, eh Jav? I call you out, sir!

But the absence of Agent Smith was because people have a vast imagination that he is unbeatable because of his Matrix abilities, especially turning whoever the hell he wants into Smith clones.

Thus, V was the better selection.

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"When I turn the page
The corner bends into the perfect dog ear
As if the words knew I'd need them again
But at the time, I didn't see it."

~"This Ain't a Surfin' Movie" - Minus the Bear

Let's take this apart section by section, because now you're just talking outright stupidity.

Quote

"Mary Sue, sometimes shortened simply to Sue, is a pejorative term used to describe a fictional character who plays a major role in the plot and is particularly characterized by overly idealized and hackneyed mannerisms, lacking noteworthy flaws, or having too many, and primarily functioning as wish-fulfillment fantasies for their authors or readers. Perhaps the single underlying feature of all characters described as "Mary Sues" is that they are too ostentatious for the audience's taste, or that the author seems to favor the character too highly."

First, with regards to the Elves. You're describing these traits as if they hadn't already existed before Tolkien included the species within his many, many books. These characteristics existed long before Tolkien wrote Lord of the Rings. Yes, they are gifted with many benefits but they are also given many flaws. They exist within nature and so, when nature suffers and their forests are lost, their powers dwindle and fade. They are more succeptable to the darkness of the Dark Lord and more easily corrupted than the other races. They are arrogant, proud and often prejudiced against the other species and least of all.

Simply put, they are not Mary Sues.

Secondly, V may be an impressive man who overcame great hurdles and suffering, but he is still just an ordinary man. Absurd amount of damage? Hardly. If you're strictly referencing the movie, he is slowed considerably after sustaining a reasonable beating and if you've read the graphic novel, you'd know the kind of trouble a knife-wound alone gave him. He may be able to dodge and deflect conventional attacks, but what about elven magic, an element that he has never encountered? He's just an ordinary man in way, way over his head. His disappearing into the night is merely stealth and trickery over human sense. Human. Elves have much better sight and hearing, as you'll recall.

As for Fate, The Narrative and all your other literary devices, I think you'll find they mean precious little in a fight wherein all characters can boast having had that same influence in their respective stories. That point counts for nothing at all.


And Bobbo, I stand by that decision. If it were Agent Smith, I'd be pulling for him. In that fight, they were in a neutral environment wherein Elrond was separated from the source of much of his power and up against a nigh-god like monster in Agent Smith. It's not singing a different tune, it's evaluating a different fight and you should probably have noticed that difference in detail. I am pulling for the Elf because against two second-rate characters, even just one elf would be enough to seal the deal. Including Legolas also changes things way into the favor of the elven tag team. You ask me to defend my choice, but shouldn't it be obvious that this is a vastly different battle? Not only is it two-on-two in middle-earth, but it involves two completely different opponents.

I do not make my choices based on personal opinion, either. I might pull for one person one week and favor another in a different fight simply because I look at each fight individually.

Again, I still maintain that Elrond could never beat Smith, but he can certainly win this fight.

V, however, is a mere man and hardly a worthy opponent at that. Your calling me out stands for nothing, it's got nothing to do with this fight in itself.

This post has been edited by Dragon_Fire on 26th March 2009 20:20

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Okay, but there was a goat!

Quote (Dragon_Fire @ 26th March 2009 22:08)

Quote

"Mary Sue, sometimes shortened simply to Sue, is a pejorative term used to describe a fictional character who plays a major role in the plot and is particularly characterized by overly idealized and hackneyed mannerisms, lacking noteworthy flaws, or having too many, and primarily functioning as wish-fulfillment fantasies for their authors or readers. Perhaps the single underlying feature of all characters described as "Mary Sues" is that they are too ostentatious for the audience's taste, or that the author seems to favor the character too highly."

First, with regards to the Elves. You're describing these traits as if they hadn't already existed before Tolkien included the species within his many, many books. These characteristics existed long before Tolkien wrote Lord of the Rings. Yes, they are gifted with many benefits but they are also given many flaws. They exist within nature and so, when nature suffers and their forests are lost, their powers dwindle and fade. They are more succeptable to the darkness of the Dark Lord and more easily corrupted than the other races. They are arrogant, proud and often prejudiced against the other species and least of all.

Simply put, they are not Mary Sues.

Ok. I'm reducing it to "Broken and Overpowered".

Also, points taken.
Let's agree to disagree.

I want to see this WNF end in a draw.

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"I fell off the mountain of words at around the 10,000ft mark. Tell my family...they owe me money." -Narratorway

"If you retort against this, so help me God I'll shove any part of your anatomy I can find into some other part. Figuratively, of course." - Josh

"We have more, can deliver tuesday." - Del S

Good old CoN