Track this topic | Email this topic | Print this topic

Wait, so you're asking us to pick if someone could defeat the Joker, as you said the "perfect villain," in his home turf?

Okay, I'm not saying Cable is bad, because he does have an impressive list of powers.

But I want the rest of the people posting to consider it this way. Let's take it away from them. Joker is a great villain, because he has a great hero to square off with. Now, how many of you would consider Batman the second, if not at least in the top 3 superheroes of all time?

Now, if the Joker can give one of the best superheroes of all time his toughest fight, don't you think he can handle Cable?

I think so. Joker wins.

This post has been edited by BlitzSage on 9th July 2009 06:35

--------------------

Praise Be To Helix!

The Joker wins.

Mostly because Cable is probably just a pawn in some new plan to bust up the Batman and doesn't even know it.

--------------------

"I fell off the mountain of words at around the 10,000ft mark. Tell my family...they owe me money." -Narratorway

"If you retort against this, so help me God I'll shove any part of your anatomy I can find into some other part. Figuratively, of course." - Josh

"We have more, can deliver tuesday." - Del S

Good old CoN

Are you kidding me? Cable wins, hands down.

Yes, the Joker is the "Perfect" villan for Batman, but there is one problem. Batman, with all his techno gadgets, is still human.

Cable has stopped Apocalypse. A mortal supervillian, as cool as Joker may be, doesn't stand a chance.

--------------------

"And that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana-shaped” -Sir Bedevere the Wise

Quote (Fadien @ 9th July 2009 08:41)

Are you kidding me? Cable wins, hands down.

Yes, the Joker is the "Perfect" villan for Batman, but there is one problem. Batman, with all his techno gadgets, is still human.

Cable has stopped Apocalypse. A mortal supervillian, as cool as Joker may be, doesn't stand a chance.

Yeah, but where would you rank him on an objective list of all-time superheroes. How about this? 1) Superman 2) Spiderman 3) Batman.

It doesn't matter the powers you have, it's how you use them. This guy has a list of powers, but is he as resourceful as Batman is? So you are saying that this guy could take Batman? There's no way.

--------------------

Praise Be To Helix!

Quote (BlitzSage @ 9th July 2009 11:58)

It doesn't matter the powers you have, it's how you use them. This guy has a list of powers, but is he as resourceful as Batman is? So you are saying that this guy could take Batman? There's no way.

Batman being able to take on Cable is honestly an irrelevant question. Firstly, because Batman beats everyone. Period. It's just a fact. Secondly, because we're talking about Cable vs. Joker, so their respective counterparts and victories are only slight barometers of how they will fare against each other. The decision has to stem from the fact that they've never fought before.

Which, I suppose, is the beauty of WNF.

Joker wins because even if he loses, he wins.

--------------------

I find your lack of faith disturbing...

I recognize I may be the only person in the universe who despises Batman. Along with that hatred comes a general hatred for all the morons he tees off against. That includes The Joker. The Joker has zero superpowers. The Joker has a 'few' screws loose. The Joker will lose. Period.

Cable wins. Easily.

Quote (BlitzSage @ 9th July 2009 10:58)

Yeah, but where would you rank him on an objective list of all-time superheroes. How about this? 1) Superman 2) Spiderman 3) Batman.

It doesn't matter the powers you have, it's how you use them. This guy has a list of powers, but is he as resourceful as Batman is? So you are saying that this guy could take Batman? There's no way.

That sounds like a list of the top 3 most popular superheroes, but I highly doubt that it is the 3 most powerful superheroes.

Look, I'm not much of a comic book kinda guy. So, I decided to google "Top 10 most powerful superheroes". Out of the 6 or so lists I looked at, batman was on 1 of them. Most of the lists had Green Lantern, Thor, Proffeser X, and silver surfer. The one that did have Batman only listed him right above Superman, just because Batman wouldn't have a problem taking down Superman. I wouldn't argue with that.

The Joker is a great villian against Batman, but do you think he'd stand up to Silver Surfer? Thor? Green Lantern? Superman (kryptonite aside)? I really do think Batman is a bit overrated of a superhero. Sure, he's smart, cunning, and can exploit the weakness of another superhero, but one well aimed bomb and what can he do? Pull out (insert random gadget he happens to have at the perfect time so that he manages to survive) and the day is saved.

*shrug* I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree.

Edit: I am sure that with WNF, Joker will win, just because of popularity. I hold no high hopes that Cable will get more votes, but I still hold to my point of Joker wouldn't win in an actual fight between the two.

This post has been edited by Fadien on 9th July 2009 23:39

--------------------

"And that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana-shaped” -Sir Bedevere the Wise

The Joker has, in canon, bested Darkseid, Superman, The Lantern Corps (an army of Green Lanterns) and outsmarted some of the most brilliant minds in the DC universe.


Cable has beaten Apocalypse, but is otherwise a near-sighted character with limited foresight and a heavy reliance upon his powers. He himself has numerously attested to this weakness. Besides, telepathy is useless against a mind as fragmented and twisted as The Joker's. It's the same principle that shields Wolverine from telepaths. There just isn't enough stable ground to run with.

The Joker wins, it isn't even a valid fight.

As for the whole "Batman isn't as good a hero because he doesn't have super-powers", I really have to call shenanigans. It's simply because he had to work so hard to get to the point he is at that makes him a better hero than all the others. Superman is invincible, so aside from kryptonite, he has nothing to fear. Is it really heroic to do all those deeds knowing full well you're never really at any risk?

Batman is, bar none, the greatest super-hero of all time. He has bested the very best, with all their super-powers. In fact, he devised a way to defeat every single hero and villain in the DC universe, himself included. He was kicked out of the Justice League temporarily for this.

But this isn't about Batman. This is about the man who gives him pause.

Again, I cannot stress this enough, if Batman is the ultimate in heroes, Joker is the ultimate in Villains. There are none as inventive, insane or downright brutal as he is. Cable never had a chance.

This post has been edited by Dragon_Fire on 10th July 2009 01:21

--------------------

Okay, but there was a goat!

I think comic book writers have to take certain liberties with their own characters sometimes for some of those fights to play out the way that they do. Superman, for instance, is as fast as a bullet and can hit you as hard as a train. Say he decides to rush Batman, for whatever reason. Even if Batman had kryptonite, the inertia Superman has created from moving at him that fast would still be enough to take him out. And I say this as someone who doesn't even like Superman.

As for Cable vs. Joker, it's hard to say because there is no "how this fight came to be" this time. Did Joker have time to plan for the fight? If not, I would hand it to Cable.

Quote

The Joker has, in canon, bested Darkseid, Superman, The Lantern Corps (an army of Green Lanterns) and outsmarted some of the most brilliant minds in the DC universe.

Cable has beaten Apocalypse, but is otherwise a near-sighted character with limited foresight and a heavy reliance upon his powers. He himself has numerously attested to this weakness. Besides, telepathy is useless against a mind as fragmented and twisted as The Joker's. It's the same principle that shields Wolverine from telepaths. There just isn't enough stable ground to run with.

This statement is full of win. Accurate win.

Quote

Superman, for instance, is as fast as a bullet and can hit you as hard as a train. Say he decides to rush Batman, for whatever reason. Even if Batman had kryptonite, the inertia Superman has created from moving at him that fast would still be enough to take him out. And I say this as someone who doesn't even like Superman.

Okay, this is obviously the general consensus, even with the folks that think, off-handed and in a gut pick, Batman could beat Superman: Batman would win, sure, but Superman would only lose because he didn't use his super-super powers. Superman can't actually lose because Batman is only human, right?

Totally wrong. You see, everyone points out that Batman is human and therefore at an insurmountable disadvantage to Superman, who is seemingly indestructible. Sans kryptonite, Batman is hopeless. But consider this: while people parade around Batman's weakness as a human, they decide to forget that Superman's weakness is kryptonite. Therefore, the only logical match up between these two, in the absence of kryptonite, is for Superman to disregard the humanity of Batman. You can't throw one weakness out the window in favor of another. If you are going to compare points of weakness, then you must give the factor of kryptonite to Batman without restraint.

But hey, let's say that there is no kryptonite. Well, Batman still wins.

Why? Because Superman's weakness isn't just kryptonite when it comes to opponents like Batman. The edge that Batman has over Superman is his ability to think outside, around, beyond, and through the box that Superman keeps himself within (even though his powers seem to counterbalance his mental shortcomings). Batman can, will, and already has gone to any means necessary to defeat his opponents (except, of course, murder). Superman will not. It is this difference in mental will and capability that sets Batman above the likes of the rest of the Superhero multiverse.

Besides, they don't make Superman like they used to. Unlike the golden/silver age Superman... you can actually define what Superman can and cannot do these days. Crazy.

I will concede the point that (some) Green Lanterns, the Silver Surfer, Professor X, and Thor have more raw power than Batman. Yes, of course, Batman's raw power is measurable in human amounts, not cosmic ones. But can any of these powerful beings best the greatest detective of all time? Not likely.

So, in turn, a villain that can keep the Batman himself on his toes, Joker, can surely outdo the powerful yet straightforward Cable. Cable is totally a worthy opponent if you consider sheer destructive force, but even if Joker doesn't have a "planning period," he would easily be able to improvise enough to defeat him.

So what's the bottom line? The bottom line is that Sabin should strongly consider leaving characters directly related to Batman mythos out of WNF because of discussions taking this repetitive turn of Batman vs. Insert Opponent Here.

--------------------

I find your lack of faith disturbing...

Well I feel like I started this cluster****, so I guess I'll try and clean it up.

I mentioned Batman vs Cable to judge the Joker's abilities. Whether you think Batman could defeat Superman doesn't matter, because the point I tried to make is this: Batman, with or without powers, is one of the greatest superheroes ever, and the Joker has to contend with him.

And if the Joker can contend with a legendary hero, can't he then defeat a superhero that is good, but not one of the best? That's what I wanted to ask people.

But it doesn't matter, because the Joker would destroy him with his mindgames and defeat him.

By the by, the absence of power argument is stupid. I could go write a comicbook tomorrow called "Bestman." He has all the powers of all other superheroes, and is the most intelligent psychic superhero ever. He is completely invincible so nothing can defeat him. Then, you can come in here and put Bestman vs anybody... no, Bestman vs everybody, and he would win.

What I'm saying is, there are a lot of superheroes, with a lot of powers, so we can't look at just powers alone, because a lot of people can make up stupid stuff like I just did and make a superhero.

But none of you would say that Bestman would defeat Superman, would you? Why? Because the Bestman idea is stupid. It's like saying "I win!" during an argument, even though you sucked (then again, that's how we pick presidents these days). Tell the truth, this Cable guy.... most of you haven't heard of. So, how can some nobody beat one of the most infamous villains ever? Because he has a lot of powers? Come on.

This post has been edited by BlitzSage on 10th July 2009 05:39

--------------------

Praise Be To Helix!

Quote (BlitzSage @ 10th July 2009 01:23)

Well I feel like I started this cluster****, so I guess I'll try and clean it up.

I mentioned Batman vs Cable to judge the Joker's abilities. Whether you think Batman could defeat Superman doesn't matter, because the point I tried to make is this: Batman, with or without powers, is one of the greatest superheroes ever, and the Joker has to contend with him.

And if the Joker can contend with a legendary hero, can't he then defeat a superhero that is good, but not one of the best? That's what I wanted to ask people.

But it doesn't matter, because the Joker would destroy him with his mindgames and defeat him.

By the by, the absence of power argument is stupid. I could go write a comicbook tomorrow called "Bestman." He has all the powers of all other superheroes, and is the most intelligent psychic superhero ever. He is completely invincible so nothing can defeat him. Then, you can come in here and put Bestman vs anybody... no, Bestman vs everybody, and he would win.

What I'm saying is, there are a lot of superheroes, with a lot of powers, so we can't look at just powers alone, because a lot of people can make up stupid stuff like I just did and make a superhero.

But none of you would say that Bestman would defeat Superman, would you? Why? Because the Bestman idea is stupid. It's like saying "I win!" during an argument, even though you sucked (then again, that's how we pick presidents these days). Tell the truth, this Cable guy.... most of you haven't heard of. So, how can some nobody beat one of the most infamous villains ever? Because he has a lot of powers? Come on.

Cable was actually one of the most famous Anti-Heroes during the late 80's to mid 90's in the Marvel Universe, is an on and off member of the X-Men, former leader of X-Force, Xcalibur and, oh, how could I forget, is the son of Cyclops and Jean Grey. Not to mention, he was teamed up with Deadpool for an ongoing series a while back that lead into House of M, which was brilliant.

All this to say that Cable is, by no means, a nobody. In terms of sheer telepathic power, his vastly outclasses that of his Mother and rivals that of Professor X. He is trained in various forms of combat and, thanks to an incident at birth, has a techno-organic left arm. That is to say, it's made of a sort of living metal that requires some small measure of his power to keep in check, lest it completely devours him.


Still, for all this, he was never much of a quick thinker, relies heavily on his powers to win his confrontations, and assumes that all enemies follow a sort of logical pattern. It was for this reason he could never best Deadpool in combat, I could only imagine it being doubly true for someone even more off the deep end.

Let's not forget that the Joker is more than just insane. He's brilliant. A chemist, capable of creating numerous types of lethal and poisonous gases, extremely comfortable with explosives, knives and hand-guns. It wouldn't take him very long to turn a simple street corner into a death-trap, that, even should it fail, would provide a fair enough distraction for the Joker to get in close.

--------------------

Okay, but there was a goat!

I know I didn't make a very good argument with my example above, but just because Joker is able to deal with Batman on a regular basis doesn't mean he automatically wins against Cable. I'm sure even Batman has lost before, likely to someone he had no business losing to in the first place, just to show that even he has his limits. Joker probably also never had Batman firing a gun at him that fires energy blasts that blow up whatever they hit. That's hard to deal with, and Cable can and will be doing this. Also from what I've seen of Cable, he is bloody determined, he won't let mind games deter him from the task at hand. All this isn't to say that Joker can't beat Cable, but Cable is the one I'm giving my particular vote to.

Okay, I didn't know DF. I'm not much of a comicbook fan, so I had no idea. But what I was saying is, we shouldn't judge by popularity, but there is a reason that the Joker is popular. As you say, he is brilliant. Look at what he did during the Dark Knight. He literally turned the city upside down, and I would suspect that he would do that here. I was just saying to the Batman critics, there's a reason he is famous too. As my cousin said to me after I told him about this, Batman's superpower is his IQ. He is an incredible genius. And I don't think Cable could keep up the way he does with the Joker.

--------------------

Praise Be To Helix!

Last week's fight seemed to bring a lot of ire with it, really calling to mind the particular point of this whole operation: Debate. The whole point, and what it is really enjoyable, is seeing what people come up with as to why their pick comes up with the win. There is no right or wrong, although there is the occasional head-scratcher response. But as long as it's a legit reason, it's counted.

But what I want everyone to keep in mind is to still deliberate on each match with a non-biased perspective. You can be the biggest Superman fan in the world, but if one of the weapons in BestMan's arsenal is a kryptonite shotgun, that better be taken into consideration despite how much may dislike BestMan and his antics. I myself am not much of a fan of Batman, while at the same time have grown up on Marvel comics (X-Men to be particular). Yet despite it, I probably would've taken the Joker in this fight.

I guess what I'm trying to say is two things:

Popularity is not a good reason to vote. Everyone knows the Joker. Not as many know Cable. But those who voted Cable included some people I know as fact have never read a comic or seen him anywhere. They took him because they read the bio I linked, and based on some of the explanations I gave them (unbiasedly, not trying to sway them one way or another). A little research never hurts, and I shall try to go back to linking some each fight just in case such a need arises.

In any fight, anyone can win for any explainable reason. E.v.e.r.y.o.n.e. I can portray a Barack Obama vs. Mothra fight, and tell you ten reasons why one or the other will win. This fight was good because Cable is the perfect warrior, powerful physically and mentally, whereas the Joker is a pure strategist who manipulates a single weakness at the drop of a hat. There is no wrong answer, so long as it's a good reason.



And that said, let's get to the results of this epic fight...

CoN Crew: 4 - 3, Joker
Facebookies: 5 - 3, Joker
Ready AIM Fire: 10 - 6, Joker
I R L: 7 - 5, Cable

Total: 24 - 19

Your winner: The Joker!


Now onto this week's fight which, sorry to say, probably won't be as heated as last week's...


In the RED Corner....



Sonya Blade

Where you've seen her: the femme fatale of Mortal Kombat

Sonya brings her militant force into the fatality inducing tournament. She's squared off against psychos, wizards, and straight up monsters, all who want nothing more than to tear her head off. But she's looking for a little blood herself.

Why she will win: Her taekwondo skills are second to none. With her viral kiss-of-death and complex kicking combos, her opponent will be at her mercy in no time.

Why she will lose: She's never been in the upper echelon of fighters in the series. While she can surprise and attack with vigilant strength and claw her way to a win, you never expect much from her. Maybe that works in her favor?


And her opponent, in the BLUE Corner....



Nina Williams

Where you've seen her: the femme fatale of the Tekken series (also the amazingly horrid shoot-em-up Death By Degrees)

Nina brings her militant battle tactics into the ultimate tournament of Tekken. She spars with everyone from eccentric old men, quasi-demons, and even panda bears and kangaroos. With a clad fist and stealth, she shows that blonds have more fun and are more lethal

Why she will win: Nina's training is beyond impressive. With her military experience, she is aggressive and lethal, leaving no margin for counter strike. She moves quickly for the kill, not wasting any time.

Why she will lose: Her constant brawls with her sister, Anna, have proven that she is prone to set backs in battle. If she can't dispose of her opponent quickly, it will be a long match.


How this fight came to be: In a shocking revelation, they simultaneously realized something that was figured out by every gamer many years ago: they're clones. But who is the original and who is the copy? This will prove it.

Setting: Neutral ground, WNF Arena.

--------------------

"When I turn the page
The corner bends into the perfect dog ear
As if the words knew I'd need them again
But at the time, I didn't see it."

~"This Ain't a Surfin' Movie" - Minus the Bear

Nina was hired to assasinate Heihachi in the first Tekken. It was a job.

Sonya was forced to participate in a tournament to the death or be executed anway in the first MK. It was do or die. And she's still alive and kickin'.

Nina hasn't really fought any of her series' greater monsters.
In MK every second character is a monster.

Sonya Blade wins.
Fatality.

--------------------

"I fell off the mountain of words at around the 10,000ft mark. Tell my family...they owe me money." -Narratorway

"If you retort against this, so help me God I'll shove any part of your anatomy I can find into some other part. Figuratively, of course." - Josh

"We have more, can deliver tuesday." - Del S

Good old CoN

I think Nina is too clunky to win this. Her only painful looking hits are the big slap and possibly the high heel crunch, while Sonya has the hard kicks and a more nimble attack sequence. Nina's strengths are not so much hand-to-hand fighting as shooting Sonya with a gun, so that could work. Having said that I'm sure Sonya can take a few bullets.

Either Sonya will beat Nina in a gun battle with her agility, or she will take a few bullets and win in close combat. Or should I say klose kombat...

--------------------

Scepticism, that dry rot of the intellect, had not left one entire idea in his mind.

Me on the Starcraft.

Nina is an assassin, a fairly decent one I've always felt.

Sonya, as has been said, fought for her life in some sort of multi-dimensional tournament of 'epic' proportions. She has a kiss of death.

Therefore, even though I actually like Nina more, since there is a decent chance for a lesbian kiss of death, I give it to Sonya.

I'll also have to go with Sonya. She also has high experience in military background, and I'm a fan of Mortal Kombat overall. She's bent on figuring out what's going down and getting revenge. That's some strong motivation.

Sonya

--------------------

Currently Playing : Final Fantasy V
Most Recently Beat : Elder Scrolls: Skyrim
Favorite Game : Final Fantasy X

The newest CoNcast is up! Have a listen!

Sonya.

Fighting the monsters in Mortal Kombat is much more impressive then whatever Nina has done.

I don't see Nina holding up to Sonya... Sonya is a way tougher opponent than Nina in just about every aspect, so I have to give this one to Sonya hands down.

--------------------

Climhazzard is the timeless evil robot who runs some of the cool stuff at CoN (mostly logging chat, since there are no quizzes at the moment), all the while watching and waiting for his moment to take over the world. -Tiddles

The results of last week's fight:

CoN Crew: 6 - 0, Sonya
Facebookies: 7 - 2, Sonya
Ready AIM Fire: 6 - 5, Nina
I R L: 7 - 4, Sonya

Total: 25 - 12

Your winner: Sonya Blade

..... Fatality



An announcement for the followers out there: WNF will take a little hiatus beginning next week. I’m going to enter the process of relocating apartments during the next two weeks, so every ounce of my energy and free time will go toward that. My guess is that it might be up to three weeks before it makes a comeback, though two is closer estimation I believe.

But before it enters its recession, I present to you the first multi-week staged battle in WNF history. This is a team battle of epic proportions. Why would I present such a multiple-tiered battle on the eve of a hiatus? The same reason TV shows do it on their series finales. Can you say “cliffhanger”?

And so now, I present Part 1 of this epic battle…

Hope there are Final Fantasy fans amongst you all.

Six teams square off in battle.
Only one team is chosen to survive.

The teams…



Heroes
Cloud Strife
Squall Leonheart
Zidane Tribal

The Heroes possess the bravery and tact required to lead their closest friends and allies into battle. With Cloud, he was drawn by his destiny to dispatch his mortal enemy. Squall was driven to protect and save his true love. Meanwhile, Zidane recognized his responsibility to Terra, his home world, and Gaia.

Why they will win: Battle tactics are their key. They are the brains behind the entire operation, manufacturing ways to achieve victory. Typically the purest fighters in grace and strength, they are always the toughest to take down. And with Climhazzard, Omnislash, Meltdown, and Solution 9 on their side, they possess the greatest Limit Breaks.

Why they will lose: Who leads the leaders? Three heroes together will try to maintain control of the situation by themselves. Learning to be a team will be imperative.



Black Mages
Terra Branford
Vivi Ornitier
Lulu

Much respect for anyone who can make a massive firestorm or conducive electric field from the flick of a wrist. Terra’s powers were used as a weapon by the empire, but are far more stunning under her own reign. Vivi remained hesitant throughout his life, but packed ferocious power in battle. And Lulu possesses magic as black as her persona.

Why they will win: No one cleans house better than a black mage. With amazingly destructive magic varying in style, form, and element, they are the perfect killing machines.

Why they will lose: Excessive use of magic comes at a cost. Power will run out quickly in a blazing storm. Along the same lines, black mages will find their life slip away without proper healing. Any draining attacks can only help so much.



White Mages
Rosa Farrell
Reina Tycoon
Aeris Gainsborough

If you ever considered these mystical mages unneeded or “pansies”, you obviously haven’t tried sparring without them for a long period of time. These support characters bolster everyone’s status, protects them from harmful spells, and of course recovers them from debilitating attacks. Rosa is the quintessential white mage with powers that were known around the world. Reina had gifts in other fields, but was of the most use as a healer. And Aeris’ ancient power puts her on her own playing field.

Why they will win: Three powerful mages, each possessing the power to strike down anyone with holy power. It will be their most pressing form of offense. But mostly they will be patient, layering supporting spells upon a heaping helping of healing spells. The white mage trio will be a hard out considering they will be able to recover at an alarming rate compared to other teams.

Why they will lose: Much akin to their voodoo counterparts, magic power will be rapidly reduced at a quick rate (however, theirs is one that won’t have as much worry, care of magic draining spells). The lack of offensive attacks will hurt them, so they will have to be creative.



Summoners
Rydia Drake of Mist
Garnet til Alexandros XVII
Yuna

Why fight when you have beasts of destruction at your bidding? These three unassuming heroines, though sweet and pure as they may seem, all share the ability to call down their beasts of burden to wreak havoc on their foes. Rydia is the sole survivor after the burning of her hometown. Garnet overcame her amnesic past to restore her eidolons. Yuna followed in her father’s footsteps in taking a pilgrimage of knowledge.

Why they will win: It’s a smooth road to victory when you have a dragon, a serpent, an ice queen, and many other beasts on your side to thwart your foes.

Why they will lose: We’re NOT playing by Final Fantasy X rules here; the summoned monsters come in for an attack and bound off, not stay in and take up battle. Therefore, and with the three of them being typically the weakest in life power, they are the most fragile and will feasibly take the least amount of damage to take out.



Powerhouses
Yang Fang Leiden
Sabin Rene Figaro
Amarant Coral

You may call them “monks”, but I’ve never seen a holy man rock the battleground like these prowlers. Brutal, lethal, and efficient. They dole out the hurt in droves, creative in their stylings. Yang’s fists of fury were killer when combined with his massive kick combos. ACHOO! Sabin and his spectacular Blitz training brought amazing elemental power to the roundhouse martial arts style. And Amarant is a merciless, cold-hearted hitman ready to take it to the limit.

Why they will win: With a bevy of brute strength, they are as untouchable as a runaway tank. With Yang’s pure brute strength, Sabin’s versatile Blitz tactics, and Amarant achieving No Mercy status, they will be nigh unstoppable.

Why they will lose: The bigger they are, the harder they fall. There’s only so much that Mantra and Chakra can help prevent deterioration of health. The problem will be doing enough damage. None of them will be able to take on more than one person at a time and be lethally effective. If they can somehow manage to get all their matchups one-on-one, then they certainly have a shot. But odds are against them.



Lancers
Kain Highwind
Cid Highwind (no relation, I’m sure)
Kimarhi

Ever take your lancers for granted? They’re here to prove that maybe you do. A balanced attack of strength and tactics, their special breed of attacks give them speed, stealth, and surprising power. With this team, the entire palette is covered: The tumultuous torture only helps feed Kain’s power. Eccentricity and a vulgar nature give Cid his motivation. And Kimahri retains the logic “silent, but deadly.”

Why they will win: Long range weapons in melee are always at an advantage over short-range. And when they use their dragoon, air-based jump attacks, it’s impossible to figure out where they’re coming from until it’s too late. Stealth is the lancers’ greatest gift.

Why they will lose: While their jumps will get the best of some, they don’t have a large bag of tricks. This wise group of combatants will eventually catch on to their ways and prepare for an immediate and effective counterattack.


How this fight came to be: It just happened so suddenly. As if awakening from dreaming, each combatant awoke in a dark world. Confusion ran abound until a disembodied voice greeted them…

“The only way out is by fighting…”

Puzzled and scared, yet suddenly engaged. The urge to fight rose in each of them, even against those who they had fought with in earlier times.

It was different now, and each one wanted out.

Setting: Limbo.

Exceptions: Now pay attention, because this bit is important:

Each team only has two options: To attack physically, and use their specialized attacks.

So, Terra may be an expert white mage and ability to summon Espers, since she was classified as a Black Mage, she may only attack and use black magic.

Aeris may technically just as easily be a black mage, but in this case, all that she knows is white magic.

Cloud also obtained whatever materia he chose. But a hero never uses magic.

You get the picture.



And now, here is your part for the first part of this epic battle:

List in order how it plays out, with #6 being the first team completely eliminated (i.e: all three characters taken out) and #1 being the sole remaining team. The winner will be announced through a special points system based on how all votes are accrued, which will be explained upon the results.

Go, and enjoy. Use your imaginations.
See you in a couple weeks.

--------------------

"When I turn the page
The corner bends into the perfect dog ear
As if the words knew I'd need them again
But at the time, I didn't see it."

~"This Ain't a Surfin' Movie" - Minus the Bear

Here's how I see it going down:

In last place, the Lancers. I love me some Kain and Cid, and this team certainly has high health, offense, and defense, but they have very little healing available (only a few Blue Magics from Kimahri) and don't hold up to the others. They probably wish they had brought along Freya instead of Kimahri.

In sixth place, the Black Mages. Three one-trick ponies. Black magic is usually pretty strong stuff, but if they're only allowed to use black magic and regular attacks then they can get reflected by the white mages, overpowered by the heroes and summoners, and outran by the martial artist team. Double Black, Frenzy, and Morph are powerful weapons on their side, but Terra is the only member here with a decent physical offense, and it won't be enough.

In fifth place, the Martial Artists. I'm not calling this team the Powerhouses, because I don't even think they're the most physically powerful team. Sabin and Amarant give the team some bonus healing, but the real meat of this team is high speed, high health, and high attack. Their offense will probably kill more quickly than the lancers' or black mages', but they can't cut it against overwhelming healing and overwhelming power.

In third place, the White Mages. This team is dangerous. Rosa is from a game where Haste is still a white spell, Aerith's limits can grant invincibility as well as healing, and Lenna, well, she's yet another person that can heal and set up strong defensive spells, and she doesn't need materia to multi-target. The only decent physical offense here is Rosa (unless Lenna gives herself BareHand or something else), but it won't matter. No other team can use reflect, protect, haste, or shell, so this team will rain Holy, take little damage, and heal up everything that hits them. The only thing stopping them is a truly overwhelming offense, just like our two finalists....

In second place, the heroes. Renzokuken, Omnislash, Grand Lethal, and Thievery. The three most powerful physical attacks in each respective game, plus a guaranteed 9999. This is the strongest physical team in the game, and their only weakness is absolutely zero healing and the need to Limit Break / Super Critical / Trance to use their real power. This team might struggle against the martial artists and white mages, but once they can use those first three aforementioned attacks things will get ugly. But not as ugly as the winning team.

In first place, the summoners. Garnet / Dagger / Sarah is pretty much just offense without her white magic, but Rydia's got her covered with Asura and an Advance-enhanced Mist Dragon. So alongside that solid, non-Reflectable offense and defense, you have the real ace in the hole, Yuna. With an entire fleet of Aeons able to take her place on the battlefield providing enormous physical and magical damage, Yuna is perhaps the most powerful character in the entire extended Final Fantasy universe. Giving her two sidekicks with similar powers is adding a sword and shield to your backpack-mounted missile launcher. The summoners win, by a landslide.

EDIT: Now that I've noticed the rule I missed, I still think they're going to win. Why? Because they have unmatched offense and capable defense. That's all.

But laszlow, you ask, where is fourth place? There wasn't a seventh team! That's what you think. I'm betting that this party gets crashed by a new trio, who finish ahead of the martial artists but behind the white mages:



Blue Mages
Bartz Klauser (as a Blue Mage, naturally)
Strago Magus
Quina

I know that that's only after a crappy google search while Bobbo's pictures are clean and well-cut, but I think that this team would crush the lancers, black mages, or martial artists. Blue Magic means powerful offense with Frog Drop (9999 damage), Grand Train, Death Claw, and more, powerful defense and healing with White Wind, Big Guard, Auto-Life, and... what else do you need? This team has it all, and even serviceable physical offense from Bartz and Quina if they want it. I don't think this is as powerful as a team of heroes or summoners or as unkillable as a team of white mages, but they'd outlast those other three teams.

This post has been edited by laszlow on 23rd July 2009 12:30

--------------------

this is a blog mostly about comics and videogames
END SPOILER

Wow, that's the most epic fight ever.

I want to make two assumptions. 1) this is not turn-based battle. They don't have to wait for turns, they just attack or heal, and they have no items. And 2) they have slightly more health. I assume that just to make the battle more interesting, you know?

#6: Summoners. I know you picked this team as #1, but laszlow my friend, you are sadly mistaken. As the rules stated above, FFX rules do not apply, they will do large amounts of damage indeed, but then what? All those that can heal will heal and they will be left defenseless. The Aeons, as Sabin said, can't stay on the field, so it is just one attack, and then them alone. They would not stand up long.

#5: Lancers. They will last a little longer than the Summoners, as they can dodge damage. But they can not heal, and they will not deal enough damage. They will easily be knocked out by the other more powerful teams.

#4: Heroes. Yes, they pack a punch, especially with powerful limit breaks. But then again, what has to happen to get a limit break? They must take damage. I think they would devastating in the beginning, But they would fall prey to the powerful attacks of the other teams.

#3: Black Mages. They are in the same boat as the Heroes, but they have a little more power behind them. They don't have to wait for Ultima. But Ultima wastes a lot of MP, and after a couple rounds of it, they would be left attacking, and lose.

#2: White Mages. They are the runner-up because they have what the other losing teams do not: healing abilities. But they ultimately lose because they would run out of MP just like the Black Mages, and would be left to simple attacks. In the end, they could sit back and simply attack all the others and let them slowly die off, but then again, they would sacrifice the big attack that all the others have, and in the end, if the battle wore on long enough, they would eventually lose their number one advantage.

And...

#1: Powerhouses. Well, the only other team that has that same advantage, albeit it being a small one, is this team. While the others are dealing damage and losing HP, they can get at least a little back and weather the storm. You say Omnislash, and question the Powerhouse team's power? Bum/Phantom Rush can do the same damage, and he doesn't have to wait for it. And, Amarant can heal him from Omnislash, while Cloud must take all the damage from Bum Rush and the Black Mages and not recover. The Black Mages would give them some trouble after the Heroes fall, but if they use too much magic, (which they would have to do in order to take them down quickly) they would run out of MP.

Then, the White Mages, one-on-one with the Powerhouse Team, would be in a defensive position, constantly Healing from Sabin's Blitzes which do not run out, and a war or attrition would go on for a while. But as mentioned earlier, though they can heal more HP, they are essentially a non-renewable resource versus a renewable one, one that can also deal much more damage.

You might all think I'm mad, but I see this one being won by guarantee by The Powerhouse Monks.

--------------------

Praise Be To Helix!

Firstly I want to eliminate the Summoners and the Black and White Mages because there's absolutely no way they could go up against the others. Just to stay in the fight they'd either have to rely on a very high evasion or Aeris' invincible Limit Break, but even then it will run out after a while, and she has to charge it. The Lancers can Jump them, the Powerhouses can sustain the damage and the Heroes would only attack if they have either a chance to kill or a Limit Break. Have you ever pitted Vivi against Zidane? Or Yuna against Tidus? Or Rydia against Cecil? It is total carnage. Even in FFVII, where the characters are far more equal than most of the other games, Cid against Aeris ends in tears for the old girl.

I can see the Heroes dominating because of their Limit Breaks, with Omnislash and Lionheart destroying two teams apiece. Remember that once Squall is in critical health he can Renzokuken as many times as he likes, usually with Lionheart to follow. I can just imagine the "MULTIKILL" commentary afterwards. I imagine the Lancers would avoid all fighting and let the Powerhouses tank the damage for a while. Still, they'll have to go up against Omnislash and Lionheart eventually and that will be the end of them, even if they manage to arrange a surprise attack. However, if Squall is still in weak health they might be able to pick him off unless Zidane and Cloud can protect him. Also to the Lancers' credit, Cid does have a big damage Limit to attack with, but I think we're discounting this because that's the Heroes' bonus. Regardless, I'd still back the Heroes to beat them. The Powerhouses might be able to sustain one the Limits between them but will still fall prey to the big damage standard attacks of the Heroes.

Basically, when you put three combatants out there with multihitting big damage Limit Breaks, a fairly large amount of health and a high damage standard attack, there isn't much that could take them down.

#1 Heroes
#2 Lancers
#3 Powerhouses
#4 Black Mages
#5 White Mages
#6 Summoners

--------------------

Scepticism, that dry rot of the intellect, had not left one entire idea in his mind.

Me on the Starcraft.

Quote (sweetdude @ 23rd July 2009 12:22)

The Powerhouses might be able to sustain one the Limits between them but will still fall prey to the big damage standard attacks of the Heroes.

Yeah, but you're forgetting that the Powerhouses can heal.

Amarant can caste Aura, which puts Auto-Life and Regen on an ally.

You also forget of the power of Phantom Rush, which ignores defence. You're telling me they can weather that without healing.

I think this fight is all about the advantage of power and recovering, and the Powerhouses actually are the best on both sides. They can caste regen, and the Blitz attacks never run out of energy.

--------------------

Praise Be To Helix!

Quote (BlitzSage @ 23rd July 2009 16:59)

Quote (sweetdude @ 23rd July 2009 12:22)

The Powerhouses might be able to sustain one the Limits between them but will still fall prey to the big damage standard attacks of the Heroes.

Yeah, but you're forgetting that the Powerhouses can heal.

Amarant can caste Aura, which puts Auto-Life and Regen on an ally.

You also forget of the power of Phantom Rush, which ignores defence. You're telling me they can weather that without healing.

I think this fight is all about the advantage of power and recovering, and the Powerhouses actually are the best on both sides. They can caste regen, and the Blitz attacks never run out of energy.

You are forgetting something yourself.


Kain is a powerhouse by himself and would wipe the floor with cecil or cloud or even would kill yang.

The man is a killing machine and a death wish,the end alone where kain fights he does 9999 dmg and i was doing about 4 or 5k dmg to the end boss while edge did 9999 dmg as well with throws of the best items.

On the other hand:

If either rydia or yuna summoned odin/yojimbo for 1 round,its game over if he does the insta kill thingy,worse yet is bahamut or zero bahamut or even pain.

Worse thing about rydia and fighting her,is that she has black magic with her and she too can cast ultima like vivi or flare wich does massive dmg.

In my opinion i'd say:

Summoners:1

mages :2

lancers:3

Heroes:4

Powerhouse monks:5

Healers:last place

Reason:

Kain is a powerhouse in jump tech,even more so than the others.

Cid highwind does have the advantage of very high limit breaks and if he gets to it before he does if he's lucky it will be devastating,kimahri is also quite strong,in fact stronger than cid highwind will ever be in combat.Kimahri with his techs he can use in every turn and if equipped right will do very high damage and he's quite agile.

White team:It is true that aeris has her powerfull limit breaks,but can she use them before she dies? healing is the thing that will be both strong point and downfall,they got powerfull heals but white itself is limited in damage.

Reflect can make the black mages whole combat go awry if they get enough reflect on em before they cast ultima,unless its unreflectable in wich they are doomed or if they cast eartquake wich can be remedied by float.


Powerhouse team:Sabim rene figaro has very strong 1 hit techs and his techs for group are not bad at all,they hurt,yang has very high hit damage doing the castle scene,his 1 hit tech hurts alot if he's leveled,more than his kick in fact.Amartant while has good damage for singles is probably the second most usefull,sabim:1 then comes amartant with chakra and then yang.

They are strong but they lack good group damage and base on single attacks.

Black mage:

Not only will they kill you before they run out of mana,they will kill you,end of discussion.

It is not even funny if vivi gets his limit break and gets double ultima to cast on the enemy group,Be afraid,be very afraid.

Heroes:These guys are better rounded than the monks,they got very high damage from swords and their limit breaks are deadly,if they can get to them before all 3 dying that is.All 3 of these guys can hit high without using techs,but one problem arises,without their limit breaks they are not as deadly as 1 guy using bum's rush on every turn.

lancers:Kain has a jump that will kill any player it hits instantly and also any spell casted will miss,kimahri has some usefull techniques that can be deadly at the endgame but nowhere near as deadly as kain's jump and of course cid highwind's most powerfull techs are all limit breaks so he might very well die before even using them.

Summoners:These guys all 3 are deadly and have multi use summons:

Ashura:if they get this ashura can heal and rez any character that is dead
Pheonix:If they get this it can do fire damage or if they are lucky instant rez to the 2 characters that are dead.

Odin/yojimbo:depending on how lucky you are,this can result in a instant game over to any unlucky team.

Bahamut/neo bahamut/bahamut zero:not only is it considered non elemental,it does massive damage to the entire team and will most definately instantly kill the team.

Pain:if pain has its limit break just entering the fight it is game over,don't even bother trying.

ETC ETC,only downfall is that some of these summons are alot more costly than black magic,luckily they have rydia who is a black mage and is very efficient at it,another downfall is that both garnet and yuna are healers making them the most efficient group there is.

summoners win the whole round and in second place the black mages and in 3rd the lancers and in 4th heroes 5th monks 6th healers.



--------------------

We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Quote (BlitzSage @ 23rd July 2009 17:59)

Quote (sweetdude @ 23rd July 2009 12:22)

The Powerhouses might be able to sustain one the Limits between them but will still fall prey to the big damage standard attacks of the Heroes.

Yeah, but you're forgetting that the Powerhouses can heal.

Amarant can caste Aura, which puts Auto-Life and Regen on an ally.

You also forget of the power of Phantom Rush, which ignores defence. You're telling me they can weather that without healing.

I think this fight is all about the advantage of power and recovering, and the Powerhouses actually are the best on both sides. They can caste regen, and the Blitz attacks never run out of energy.

The Powerhouses' healing is pretty much inconsequential to the massive damage that the Heroes' attacks inflict. Even Auto-Life would only allow them to survive one Limit. We're talking three strong individual physical attacks and three extremely powerful special attacks.

I'm not saying that the Heroes can tank all the damage, but that they can sustain a good deal of damage and have the speed and evasion to make up for what they lack in health. The other teams have strengths and weaknesses: the Mages and Summoners have poor health, the Lancers are vulnerable when they're not on the move, and the Powerhouses are slow and weak to ranged attacks or magic. The Heroes, in contrast, have no weaknesses other than a lack of healing, and they can make up for that by giving out a great deal more punishment than they receive.

This post has been edited by sweetdude on 23rd July 2009 18:51

--------------------

Scepticism, that dry rot of the intellect, had not left one entire idea in his mind.

Me on the Starcraft.

Quote (sweetdude @ 23rd July 2009 18:51)

Quote (BlitzSage @ 23rd July 2009 17:59)

Quote (sweetdude @ 23rd July 2009 12:22)

The Powerhouses might be able to sustain one the Limits between them but will still fall prey to the big damage standard attacks of the Heroes.

Yeah, but you're forgetting that the Powerhouses can heal.

Amarant can caste Aura, which puts Auto-Life and Regen on an ally.

You also forget of the power of Phantom Rush, which ignores defence. You're telling me they can weather that without healing.

I think this fight is all about the advantage of power and recovering, and the Powerhouses actually are the best on both sides. They can caste regen, and the Blitz attacks never run out of energy.

The Powerhouses' healing is pretty much inconsequential to the massive damage that the Heroes' attacks inflict. Even Auto-Life would only allow them to survive one Limit. We're talking three strong individual physical attacks and three extremely powerful special attacks.

I'm not saying that the Heroes can tank all the damage, but that they can sustain a good deal of damage and have the speed and evasion to make up for what they lack in health. The other teams have strengths and weaknesses: the Mages and Summoners have poor health, the Lancers are vulnerable when they're not on the move, and the Powerhouses are slow and weak to ranged attacks or magic. The Heroes, in contrast, have no weaknesses other than a lack of healing, and they can make up for that by giving out a great deal more punishment than they receive.

The real dangers is not the regular attacks of people like squall and cloud and zidane,their powerfull attacks are their limit breaks.

Zidane has a few abilities to reduce speed and other kinds of stuff but cloud and squall don't,the only thing that is dangerous is if squall somehow survives a attack like if the white mages attack him and lower his health enough that he can use zensuken or whatever its called and then the oponents are doomed.

Kain has the same problem that sabim has,his most powerfull attacks are single oponents and also have same problem of teams,neither yang or cid are that powerfull,while at least cid can cast dangerous limit breaks if he survives,that is in fact the only hope to turn the tides and yang does high damage with his single attack but his kick is no good at high level fights.

And black mage group has a major advantage over heroes monks and lancers:ultima may cost alot but with 999 mana it is enough to kill you off several times over,and that isn't mentioning if they might have osmose wich is also dangerous,only downfall is that they got low hitpoints and no healers,against white wizards like rosa yuna and even garnet,they would be in very deep trouble,the problem being that they can cast reflect by summon or by white magic and deflect the really strong attacks against them like flare and possibly ultima.

summons:Not only are they balanced and can cast white magic black magic,but ontop they can cast costly but deadly with force spells like bahamut and odin/yojimbo and of course pain.

The heroes only stand a chance if they can get their limit breaks against the mages or the summoners and if they don't they are seriously in trouble.

Even if the heroes all have auto life,they won't survive 2 rounds of ultima on the whole team and if its not reflectable that means instant death to the whole team,the team would do best job against kain's team due to the fact that kain's team is one of the most lacking except for him who is the most dangerous.

Try putting these in your team for a massive challenge:

Squall

kain

Yuna

and Vivi


It is a flooring team that would wipe the floor with any team that dares challenge them,kain's ability to evade spells while in the air,yuna's devastating aeons,even if they cast and go away its still devastating,and ontop she can heal well and act as a white mage,vivi with ultima and limit break of double cast and squalls special attack when he is low OUCH!! i believe even edea would have trouble dealing with this.

This post has been edited by Magitek_slayer on 23rd July 2009 20:00

--------------------

We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 23rd July 2009 20:28)

The real dangers is not the regular attacks of people like squall and cloud and zidane,their powerfull attacks are their limit breaks.

Zidane has a few abilities to reduce speed and other kinds of stuff but cloud and squall don't,the only thing that is dangerous is if squall somehow survives a attack like if the white mages attack him and lower his health enough that he can use zensuken or whatever its called and then the oponents are doomed.

Even if the heroes all have auto life,they won't survive 2 rounds of ultima on the whole team and if its not reflectable that means instant death to the whole team,the team would do best job against kain's team due to the fact that kain's team is one of the most lacking except for him who is the most dangerous.

Their physical attacks are strong and accurate enough to kill the Mages and Summoners, however.

The Heroes can get their Limit Breaks from any of the five other groups. Ultima, in FFIX, reduces a character to 1HP, perfect for Limit Breaks. Ultima is also very expensive so they wouldn't want to waste it early. Less costly magic would further charge the Limits. The Lancers have a good attack but would have to be extremely well co-ordinated to land three hits in succession onto a Hero, and even then it might not kill them but leave them with a Limit Break to counterattack with, especially if the Hero attacked is using Defend. The Powerhouses will only be able to hit for so long before instigating a Limit Break. I doubt they'd be able to land a one-hit wonder on anyone other than the magicians.

On your last point, like I said before, I doubt the Black Mages would want to waste all their MP on Ultima considering they've got a long fight ahead. Against fifteen opponents they can't just fire two off against one group while being lashed at by the Lancers. They'd need to keep the faster groups at bay with their MP. I'd imagine that the magicians would be on the defensive for the entire fight that they survive.

--------------------

Scepticism, that dry rot of the intellect, had not left one entire idea in his mind.

Me on the Starcraft.