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Quote (Mu the Squirrel @ 12th February 2008 18:18)

Question: Is there a specific type of game you're playing? I mean, I notice most you list are platform adventure games. What about games like Life Force?

There's no real limitation on types of games I'm playing. It just seems like most of the hardest games are platformers (Contra III, Actraiser 2, Metroid, etc). I'm open for any genre, really, except RPG's (too long and too easy to overcome by power-leveling) and maybe puzzle games. I only rule out puzzle games because most of them are points-based and aren't really "beaten", and I didn't really want a thread of "I bet you can't get to level 50 on Tetris!!!"

But yea, old-school platformers are just really fun for me and tend to be unfairly difficult, which is exactly what I'm looking for.

I haven't heard of Life Force before, but I just did a quick search. Is it also known as "Salamander"? If so, it looks a lot like Gradius, which was one of my favorite side-scrolling shooter games when I was younger. I'd love to try one of those on my list of challenges. After all, Silver Surfer is on the list. If I can beat that, the other shooters can't be too bad.

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Is PJ

Yeah, it was Salamander in the arcade and Japan but on the NES you'd find it under Life Force. Also, it is a lot like Gradius... mainly because it's a spin-off of that series. =P I loved it as a kid, but I haven't played it in so long I can't really comment how hard it was.

Hmmm... speaking of platformers though, I seem to recall Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles on the NES being quite difficult. I never quite got ino the series but the game could be a pain at times.

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The Arcana are the means by which ALL is revealed.

I am surprised that Zelda II: Adventure of Link isn't mentioned... That game remains one of the hardest NES games ever created, both because of some enemies being very tough, and some things being so [opposite word of obvious].

try it out, i've had to resort to a walkthrough once, and i am not done yet.

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All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Broccoli to die.

I beat Zelda II a few years ago and haven't revisited it yet. It was real tough and not too enjoyable, but it was still an interesting experience. I doubt I'll be playing that again anytime soon.

Brawl is coming out in a few weeks, my pokemon league just started today, and I have a few big exams weeks coming up. As a result, it'll be tough to dedicate some time to beating these games. Luckily, this is an ideas thread and not a progress report thread. So thanks for your ideas, everybody!

Once again, games on my list to beat, pending I somehow get them:
Viewtiful Joe (GCN)
Master Blaster (NES)
Metal Storm (NES)
TMNT (NES)
Metroid (NES)

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Is PJ

Quote (Caesar @ 17th February 2008 15:27)

I beat Zelda II a few years ago and haven't revisited it yet.  It was real tough and not too enjoyable, but it was still an interesting experience.  I doubt I'll be playing that again anytime soon.

Are you kidding? Z2 remains to this day one of my all time favorites in the series!

Moreover, never used a guide (until after I had already beaten the game), just a LOT of wandering at a young age.

The only drawback to that game is that once you discover, "The Technique," it's not hard anymore.

With the exception of bosses, just about every monster has an easy way to kill it. (Usually jumping, ducking in midair, and attacking on the way back down. It counts as a hit both high and low, usually negating 99% of defensive manuevers.)

Powerleveling is a major asset (for speed playthoughs) / deficit (for a real challenge)

Six palaces that automatically level you up only when you insert the crystal means: wait to "clear" the palace (kill the boss sure, just don't put that crystal in!), and go back, get all six palaces at once to go from level 6, 6, 6, to level 8, 8, 8, in the amount of time it takes you to sweep through each palace again. (and lvl 6, 6, 6 dominates pretty much everything except bosses anyways)

It's in my sub-conscious memory the easiest way around/through traps and battles in the game. I don't think about locations when I play, I just know where to go with no second guessing. I guess that's always useful.

It's a great game for a playthrough, but these massive exploit aspects do not lend themselves to a good game to play for extreme difficulty.

The ONLY really difficult part about that game is the Thunderbird at the end, paired with an immediate encounter with shadow link.

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If internal struggles were as enjoyable and glamorous as the self conflicted wars within video game characters, we would all be statues, reveling in perpetual self war. -Me

Play me on Rock Band 2, GH-WT, or any other Xbox GH!
Xbox Gamertag-MeanJerry

Don't get me wrong, the dungeons were real fun. It was walking halfway across the world to get to the dungeon after dying near the end by the boss, or worse still, ON the boss. That was the not fun part. The magic was interesting (jump + swordplant wins), and the enemies had AI that varied enough to keep me on my toes (can't just sword plant everything...sometimes SOME defensive maneuvers are needed). There are tricks to beating the shielded knights (jump attack!), but overall there is a lot of variety in the game.

But no, I don't think I will play through it again anytime soon. It was fun sometimes, but overall it was wayy too frustrating getting to the dungeons or leveling from just basic spiders, slimes, or spear-wielding beasts. No thank you.

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Is PJ

Any chance that you picked up Zanac at some point?

Unlike most games of its genre (and its time), the levels were generated on the fly. It's a vertical shooter, but the level of difficulty was completely dependent on how well the game thought you were doing. And it had a ridiculous number of levels, and the NES's natural inclination towards low lives and continues.

It was recently released onto the Virtual Console. I still like it, though I much prefer the style of Curtain Fire shmups instead. But for 500 points, it's a steal.

Id say the hardest game i ever played was Operation Wolf for the nes. (also previously released on virtual console) I cant even get past the second level without dying the first 20 seconds into the level.

Oh man. Two VC suggestions. I don't know if I can make an excuse to not play them. I'll look into them something next week maybe; my time is extremely limited this week.

Thanks!

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Is PJ

try the N64 version of Batman Begins...you wont make it past the second level....trust me. My biggest two accomplishments were when i was 7 and 10 for pokemon and final fantasy viii respectively. i was a BEAST at pokemon...im fairly certain i could've destroyed all of you...no legendaries when i was little on my Red version. Using no hacks i got all of the pokemon in 2 days, all lvl 100 a week later, and by all, i mean that i had ALL of them....trading a lot for the starters, but i had one of each in my box (had a squirtle, wartortle, and blastoise for example) i was insane at this game. i did a playthrough where none of my pokemon fainted...no im not lying. a lot of switching out and training, but it was worth it. in ff viii, i did a deathless, low level playthrough, doing all of the side quests and all GFs i didnt fight Ultima weapon because the trek down wouldve leveled me up about 20-30 levels.

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Aujourdhui a commence avec toi.

Demon's Souls. I can now say this with some authority. I bought the game a week ago and I CAN'T BEAT THE SECOND LEVEL!

Every time you die, you go back to the beginning of the level, like in old NES platformers. The game functions on autosave, so if you lose all your items or souls, you can't load to get them back. YOU CANNOT PAUSE! And every time you die, the enemies get harder. This game is by the makers of the King's Field series and is a nice throwback to old school challenges, but with next gen technology.

Let me also add, off topic, that this game has a very unique multiplayer feature. Multiplayer interaction is limited. Each player is in their own "world." Across worlds, you can leave messages that players can see. You can also view bloodstains to see how players died. There are only a few ways to directly interact. When you die and become a soul, you can return to physical form by becoming a blue phantom and aiding another player in their world, or become a black phantom and invade and kill another player in their world. You can also issue red phantom challenges which are kind of like duels.

I've been absolutely, ABSOLUTELY addicted to masocore games this past year, which are basically platformers designed to frustrate the user. Just today I got Super Meat Boy off of XBLA but I've played at least five other games in the same vein this year (N+, I Wanna Be the Guy, VVVVV, Super Meat Boy, Mighty Jill Off, Jumper, and to a lesser extent Splosion Man), and they are definitely all among the hardest games I've ever played. I'm not a fan of difficult games -- in most cases I hate them -- but I guess there's some masochist deep inside me that can't get enough of these

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"We're not tools of the government or anyone else. Fighting... fighting was the only thing I was ever good at, but at least I always fought for what I believed in." - Frank Yeager (a.k.a. Grey Fox)

Idea for a harder challenge with Super GnG: Use the torch (or another shitty weapon) the whole way, both times. And only after you play through the last level the second time over, you'll have to go back through it to get the goddess bracelet. Only then may you pick it up.

And yes, the freeware game n is often quite brutal.

The freeware game Eternal Daughter is also quite hard.

If you can get it, try out the Master System and Aracde game Ghouls n Ghosts. The arcade version seems to be the hardest.

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Check the "What games are you playing at the moment?" thread for updates on what I've been playing.

You can find me on the Fediverse! I use Mastodon, where I am @[email protected] ( https://sakurajima.moe/@glennmagusharvey )

If you're counting Final Fantasy I and F-Zero I'm going to assume we're not exclusively looking at platformers. I hear shoot 'em ups like Mushihimesama and R-Type are notoriously difficult. R-type is available for a variety of consoles andthe sequel to Mushihimesama, which would be Mushimesama Futari is region free if you've got a 360.

If not, they're not quite as difficult within that genre but the Touhou series of games starting from 6 (first game for windows) might also be an option. The seventh game in the series is the screenshot example the Wikipedia is using to define the Bullet Hell A.K.A. Danmaku (curtain fire) niche, has a "lunatic" difficulty setting and is readily available for the P.C. if you don't mind using an importer like Paletweb or Himeyashop. Just keep in mind that Touhou games are japanese so you might have to tinker with regional settings if you wanna play and fan created translation patches come highly recommended for the unprecedently fun/quirky dialog for a shoot 'em up game.

Also one final mention for Hitogata Happa for the P.C. or downloadable for PSN via Gundemonium Collection. It's quite entertaining so far but I'm not entirely sure what I'm doing and haven't beaten stage 1 yet.



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Role reversal at its finest.

I hear that Touhou isn't actually that great of a bullet hell game itself, though it's decent; the main draw seems to be the catchy music, overly ornate character designs, absurd excuse plots, and vast amounts of fan material produced due to these three things.

Then again I haven't actually played the games, and have only heard the music.

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Check the "What games are you playing at the moment?" thread for updates on what I've been playing.

You can find me on the Fediverse! I use Mastodon, where I am @[email protected] ( https://sakurajima.moe/@glennmagusharvey )

Ah right, I forgot to mention that there are downloadable demos on the creator's site, which are playable up to the third stage boss. Unfortunately it's actually Stage 4 that's generally thought of amongst the fans as the point where things get tricky. In Embodiment of the Scarlet Devil, Patchouli Knowledge just kinda shows her disdain for me by wiping out whatever scant few remaining lives I have by her first spell card.

Unfortunately, I can't say this is much of an indicator as to the difficulty to anybody except myself, as I'm not very familiar with the bullet hell subgenre or what one should be expecting of it. Well, except for one thing: By design, games in this classification are all meant to be or are at least thought of as relatively daunting. Albeit I must admit they usually aren't as difficult as they look, as the images don't directly correspond to the room you have to maneuver. Your character only dies if the lethal part of a bullet collides with the very center of your sprite.

There are some things about the series that kinda go against that grain; namely while the conceptual design of the characters is great, the official art is somewhat subpar. It's always a case of saved by the fanworks, which I must admit was what drew me into the series.

Just how he got such a dedicated fanbase is a bit tricky to comprehend as well. You can't have fanart without fans. Zany plots are nice, they can't really appeal unless knowledge about the series spreads. There haven't really been many marketing efforts on the creator's behalf to my knowledge; just fans begetting more fans.

I suppose this could owe in part to the music, since fan based remixes of the tunes such as Marisa Stole the Precious Thing (Based off of Doll Judgement) and McRolled (Based off of U.N. Owen Was Her) have caused massive first exposures.

However what's also important to consider this genre has many of its roots in arcades where quarter munching is a preferred design aspect; the fans of these games like things difficult and fans have had time to practice and the genre has a habit keeps on pushing things to the limit of frustration. I don't think that the games aren't difficult so much as it is that the trend of balance is that Touhou, being one of the older bystanders in the bullet hell grouping, is starting to show its age and isn't doing much about it.

So to paraphrase what I said before, if you're looking for the very hardest of hard games, the Touhou games probably won't fit the bill. If you're looking for a defining classic to introduce you to an overall challenging genre, then Touhou's very accommodating but still difficult.

But hey, you don't have to take my word for it.</LeVar Burton>

P.S. Before I forget, there are also complaints about blind spots. I'm not sure exactly how common they are but Icicle Fall Easy is pretty obvious... Albeit it's also noteworthy that this particular blind spot only happens on easy mode, since normal adds some yellow bullets that kinda home and harder modes use a different pattern altogether.

This post has been edited by Tonepoet on 28th October 2010 01:01

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Role reversal at its finest.

Legacy of the Wizard (NES) was pretty darn hard. Kind of similar to Metroid, but I think it's even bigger, and you have different characters that you have to utilize for different parts of the game. It's very well put together, and I think it's one of the coolest NES games. I highly recommend it for both a good time and a good challenge.

Hmm ultima underworld is pretty hard for a rpg.

Its long its complicated.

Hmm I definitely recommend contra 2 and 3.

I heard that i think it was either 2 or 3 was EXTREMELY HARD and i mean:EXTREMELY HARD!!

ninja gaiden 3 is brutal in difficulty because you have to start all over,its no longer infinite continues.

ghost and goblins 1 for the nes is also brutal in difficulty,in fact i'm working on it as well.

Megaman 1 is pretty hard as well.

I've beaten 1,2,3,5 6 and 8.


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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Oh man! I forgot I made this thread. I didn't even see these bumps until now. Sorry! I guess I'll give an update.

I've taken this to the next level in the past year and a half or so. I started submitting to Twin Galaxies and SpeedDemosArchive, although I currently only have a few records. The count at TG is 40 first place scores, but some of those were beaten at SDA, so the real count is probably only....30 or so. I guess I'll mention some of the more notable ones:

Speed runs:
Battletoads & Double Dragon (NES, SNES)
Battletoads in Battlemaniacs (PAL and NTSC)
Actraiser 1 Professional! mode (glitches and no glitches)
Actraiser 2 hard mode (beats TAS by 7.5 minutes)
7th Saga, single segment (Super Famicom and SNES version)
Robotrek, single segment

Points runs:
19.5-hour marathon of Mega Man 1 (5 lives)
13-hour marathon of Hyperzone (7 lives)
8 hours of Super Castlevania IV (5 lives)
Ghouls 'n Ghosts arcade

So yea, Mega Man 1 is no problem, Magitek_Slayer. Contra is also really easy (although I don't know what "Contra 2" is...do you mean Super C?).

I have tried those other shmups. They are pretty hard, but a lot of fun! I did beat most of the ones I played, but not on one credit. I decided to specialize a little bit more recently, too. One of my good friends at SDA, romscout, is a shmup champion (in addition to being really good at SOTN), so I realized I'd never be as good as him at those or enjoy them as much.

I did try Demon's Soul for a bit since my roommate bought it, but I don't like newer games very much. It was OK, but nothing great.

Quote (GMH)

If you can get it, try out the Master System and Aracde game Ghouls n Ghosts. The arcade version seems to be the hardest.

Actually, Ghouls 'n Ghosts is super easy. Ghosts 'n Goblins is tough, but Ghouls 'n Ghosts is rather simple. I have played it on MAME, on the actual arcade cab itself, and on the Sega Genesis. It's a very fun game, but not nearly as hard the other games in the series. I'll be doing a speed run of that somewhere down the road.

Anyways, my specialties now are arcade games and NES/SNES-era console games. I really like doing speed runs now. Points runs are boring to me now, unless they are marathons, and shmups just aren't as fun to me as they used to be. Here are my current projects:

Arcade:
Ghosts 'n Goblins improvement
Moon Patrol
Timber (marathon and 5-life settings)

Speed runs:
Actraiser 2 deathless
Battletoads NES finally
Battletoads & Double Dragon NES revision
Robotrek revision
7th Saga with glitches
Mohawk & Headphone Jack!
Lagoon!
Batman Forever!
Ghouls 'n Ghosts

All of the above are prepared except for the last 4 speed runs. I just need to actually successfully record these runs (or find the machines, in the case of the arcade games). It's so exciting to do these runs!

Anyways, I'll link to my youtube channel again:

http://www.youtube.com/user/TheSuperSNES?feature=mhum

Most of my current 'good' speed runs are up there, as long as some work-in-progress videos. Feel free to leave some feedback.

Lastly, since I've been involved with SDA, I've kind of gained this reputation for liking really bad games:

Great SDA thread

(I am PJ, for those who don't know yet)
So that thread has provided some entertainment. Since I've become a little bit too busy myself to do runs of all these games, it is nice to see others do them and help them plan. It's a lot of fun. That being said, please let me know if you know of any really, REALLY bad or obscure games that you'd like to see a speed run of. I might use it in my next game exchange if I like it enough.

Thanks again for the ideas!

Edit

I just read my initial post again. I have been wondering about that Super C time. I know I remember that 13-minute time correctly, but I don't think that my timing was accurate. I think I just used a normal digital clock to keep track of my time on those casual runs, so it was likely very close to 14 minutes instead. The best speed run is like 13:10 or something and he can mash at 18 hits/second, which is WAY faster than me. I'm sure I didn't come close to his time. Anyways, I digress.

I also like to see that I couldn't beat AR2 before, and yet I am speed running it now. I love to see progress!

This post has been edited by Caesar on 29th October 2010 17:05

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Is PJ

Quote (Caesar)

Actually, Ghouls 'n Ghosts is super easy. Ghosts 'n Goblins is tough, but Ghouls 'n Ghosts is rather simple. I have played it on MAME, on the actual arcade cab itself, and on the Sega Genesis. It's a very fun game, but not nearly as hard the other games in the series.

...wat

...No. Definitely not. At least I could beat the first level of Ghosts n Goblins NES without dying. The samecannot be said about Ghouls n Ghosts arcade version.

(However, the Master System version is easier.)

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Check the "What games are you playing at the moment?" thread for updates on what I've been playing.

You can find me on the Fediverse! I use Mastodon, where I am @[email protected] ( https://sakurajima.moe/@glennmagusharvey )

Hm. It is definitely true that Ghosts 'n Goblins is easier at first, but it quickly gets very difficult on level 3, and then absurd on level 5 (on arcade at least). Ghouls 'n Ghosts is harder at first, but stays at about the same difficulty for the entire game.

I could understand your experience with it. I'm very confident that you could thrash Ghouls 'nG with a little bit of practice though.

This post has been edited by Caesar on 29th October 2010 23:50

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Is PJ

Quote (Caesar @ 29th October 2010 08:54)

I did try Demon's Soul for a bit since my roommate bought it, but I don't like newer games very much.  It was OK, but nothing great.

If you can, I would urge you to give it another chance, Caesar. I thought specifically of you and this topic when I started playing it, which is why I resurrected this thread.

There are probably a whole slew of reasons you prefer older games. However, despite its next gen graphics and perks (obviously NES platformers never had online multiplayer), the challenge factor and gameplay really do hearken back to the classics. You will find Ghosts N' Goblins type challenges. When you're on stage 1-2 as a level 5 noob, and ten minutes in a giant red dragon swoops down and sets you on fire as you're crossing a bridge, one hit kill, then you'll get a sense of what I'm talking about.

Oh yea, I definitely agree it's a tough game. Definitely. It showed me who was the boss for awhile. Hahaha. And yea, that did make it a lot more fun to me, but I just don't really like new games. There's no real reason for it, honestly. I mean, most of it is because I don't own any supporting consoles for the "good" new games (I only have a Wii....which limits me to party games and WiiWare stuff), but I just have a hard time getting into them. Admittedly, Demon's Souls would be the first game I got if I were to buy a 360, but I just don't see it happening.

I guess the other part of it is the cost. For the cost of a 360, I could buy an arcade game and have a lot more fun for much longer, and I'd be able to sell it back for just as much money a few years down the road. Each of the games are $50-60. I could buy a dozen really bad NES/SNES games for the same price, but play them for months longer without getting tired of them.

Demon's Souls, SSF4, and MvC3 are the only motivation I have for getting a 360, but I don't think that's enough to actually get me to buy one.

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Is PJ

Quote (Caesar @ 1st November 2010 14:58)

Admittedly, Demon's Souls would be the first game I got if I were to buy a 360, but I just don't see it happening.

Nope. Demon's Souls is a PS3-exclusive. MvC3 and SSF4 are for both 360 and PS3, though.

...And really? You say that you'd have more playtime, etc. from a single arcade game than an entire new console? Damn.

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this is a blog mostly about comics and videogames
END SPOILER

Get Megaman Zero Collection on the DS. They are by far some of the hardest games I've ever played, especially the first two.


Not that I play many hard games.

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"When we think there's no hope left, we keep looking until we find some!" - Claire Farron

Quote (laszlow @ 1st November 2010 16:55)

Quote (Caesar @ 1st November 2010 14:58)

Admittedly, Demon's Souls would be the first game I got if I were to buy a 360, but I just don't see it happening.

Nope. Demon's Souls is a PS3-exclusive. MvC3 and SSF4 are for both 360 and PS3, though.

...And really? You say that you'd have more playtime, etc. from a single arcade game than an entire new console? Damn.

Oh darn. Then yea, not much chance of it happening. Haha. Sorry!

But yea, definitely a classic arcade game would be more play time. The next ones I'm interested in getting are targets for marathons, which would mean 40-50 hours of playtime in one go. That's more than most new games have to offer. Plus all the time I'd put into practicing for the marathon, the time that friends/family would spend on it, and the time I'd spend getting a good 5-life score. That's a lot of time in total. Granted, that still pales in comparison to the amount of time I've invested in Actraiser 2, but it's still pretty decent. Plus, arcade games look much better.

Quote (Smash Genesis)

Get Megaman Zero Collection on the DS. They are by far some of the hardest games I've ever played, especially the first two.

I did emulate these a little bit a few weeks ago and really enjoyed them. They are pretty solid games and I'd definitely consider them for a speed run if I could find a copy. Unfortunately, they aren't really cheap at the moment. Since I have a few other active projects, I'm in no rush to pick these up, but I'm keeping my eyes peeled for some cheap copies.

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Is PJ

Demon's Souls is indeed a PS3-exclusive. If it influences your decision at all, PS3 has a free online network and also doubles as a Blu-Ray player. But I'm no hater of XBox 360, it has an almost identical game selection and bigger online fan base.

These sound like factors unlikely to influence you much. You seem to prefer old school titles and they definitely have a different gameplay dynamic and, on the whole, more challenge. However, I would definitely encourage you to keep up on some next gen titles. There are definitely challenges out there waiting for you in more recent releases, and Demon's Souls is one of them.

Quote (MetroidMorphBall @ 2nd November 2010 03:00)

Demon's Souls is indeed a PS3-exclusive. If it influences your decision at all, PS3 has a free online network and also doubles as a Blu-Ray player. But I'm no hater of XBox 360, it has an almost identical game selection and bigger online fan base.

These sound like factors unlikely to influence you much. You seem to prefer old school titles and they definitely have a different gameplay dynamic and, on the whole, more challenge. However, I would definitely encourage you to keep up on some next gen titles. There are definitely challenges out there waiting for you in more recent releases, and Demon's Souls is one of them.

Yea my friends are constantly talking about the new games they are getting or that are being released. My roommate gets most of them (granted most of them are FPS's), so I get to see those firsthand. Super Meat Boy looks incredibly fun to play and definitely presents some challenge from what I've seen. It's coming out for WiiWare, but likely not to the same extent as the other releases because they need to compress it or something to fit in the 40MB limit.

Anyways, I'm definitely keeping my eyes out still for new games that are interesting, but it'll take a lot to motivate me to buy a new console.

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Is PJ

@ Caesar: MMZ Collection is selling for about $25-$30 depending on the retailer, as I've noticed. ($25 at fye entertainment, $30 at KMart, in my area.)

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Check the "What games are you playing at the moment?" thread for updates on what I've been playing.

You can find me on the Fediverse! I use Mastodon, where I am @[email protected] ( https://sakurajima.moe/@glennmagusharvey )

Oh, I was looking for the original GBA carts, since I can actually record those with Game Boy Player. Recording DS stuff is pretty irritating....and I think my brother has my DS in San Diego currently.

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Is PJ