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BEWARE. TL;DR TOPIC.


Okay. I have been wikipeding and googling and FF-Compendiuming and CoNing all night, taking notes, and I still can't figure out when exactly Delita was promoted to leader of what band of knights, and why. Canon cannot be mucked with.

My last desperate hope is you, fellow FFT geeks.

An overview. Delita, when we see him kidnapping the princess, is a member of the Black Sheep, a division of the Nanten Knights. He was given this position by his networking with the leader of the Black Sheep, a one Baron Grims. (He is different from the leader of the Nanten Knights proper who, as we all know, is Mr. Thunder God Cid. )

This makes sense, as the Nanten Knights are Goltana's army, and Goltana's emblem is a black lion. Black Lion, Black Sheep. Fine and good.

However, I am later told this: nearly all of the Black Sheep division is soon wiped out by some assassin organization -- nearly all, including this Baron Grims. Apparently this is when Delita becomes leader of the Black Sheep. As Olan says so succinctly: "Hey, isn't that Delita guy the new leader of the Black Sheep, succeeding Baron Grims?" Pretty straightforward. (Although one wonders why Delita would bother leading a division with no one left in it. Or did some survive?)

On we go. Now I learn that Delita switches sides, becoming a Holy Knight for the Hokuten, Prince Larg's peeps working under the White Lion flag. Right? Here I get confused. So does this mean the Black Sheep are no more? And he's doing this double-crossing with Goltana's nudge-nudge wink-wink knowledge, right? Because soon thereafter, Orlandu is accused (framed by Delita?) of conspiring against Goltana and sentenced to death. Yadda yadda, Delita is finally appointed (by Goltana, I know that at least) head of all the Nanten Knights, there to secretly free Cid and assassinate Goltana in thanks.

But wait a second -- he's promoted to head of the Nanten Knights direct from the enemy army? What and why? Huh wuh huh?

So, I guess my real questions are

-Did Goltana himself promote Delita to head of the Black Sheep Knights, or was it just de facto because there was no one left?

-And when Delita became leader of the Nanten, was he coming straight from Larg's side as a double (triple/quadruple) agent, or was he already back in the Nanten army?

Thanks, guys. I'm hurtin' here.

--------------------

Some ghost of me might greet my son
the day he is delivered.


Eternal Sleep, Track 1-1: The Blue Planet

ok first off the only time delita was a part of the hokuten was when he was a squire with ramza. he was a high ranking member of the black sheep and when baron grims was assassinated he took over due to his accelerated skills and faith from goltana. im pretty sure that not all of the black sheep were killed, and if they were when delita took over they most likely got new members. delita did frame orlandu, which goltana believed because of the fact that orlandu wanted to stop the war, therefore making goltana mistrust his right hand man t.g. cid and what better person to trust then the man who brought the traitor into the open (delita). as soon as delita kills goltana and "t.g. cid" since he was an up and coming warrior with the nanten he assumed control, claiming he saw orlandu kill gotana, and then he slayed him himself. basically he used mass trickery to work his way up through the ranks in the nanten army, with the help of the shrine knights (not largs forces but the church's). and he eventually became the leader, all which was set up by funeral, and in turn vormav.
i hope that cleared up some things for you

This post has been edited by Lune knight on 19th August 2007 22:39

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"Change the world? no one can do that, Im not that naive!"

Quote (Lune knight @ 19th August 2007 18:37)

ok first off the only time delita was a part of the hokuten was when he was a squire with ramza. he was a high ranking member of the black sheep and when baron grims was assassinated he took over due to his accelerated skills and faith from goltana. im pretty sure that not all of the black sheep were killed, and if they were when delita took over they most likely got new members. delita did frame orlandu, which goltana believed because of the fact that orlandu wanted to stop the war, therefore making goltana mistrust his right hand man t.g. cid and what better person to trust then the man who brought the traitor into the open (delita). as soon as delita kills goltana and "t.g. cid" since he was an up and coming warrior with the nanten he assumed control, claiming he saw orlandu kill gotana, and then he slayed him himself. basically he used mass trickery to work his way up through the ranks in the nanten army, with the help of the shrine knights (not largs forces but the church's). and he eventually became the leader, all which was set up by funeral, and in turn vormav.
i hope that cleared up some things for you

No, IIRC he was with Larg for a brief period, though I believe he was also under Goltana at the same time.

I'm pretty sure he was just playing both sides to further his plans- I don't think he ever switched sides, or acted as a spy. He was, in the end, only working for himself.

This post has been edited by Samurai Bob on 19th August 2007 23:52

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FFIVDS looks awesome, right? Especially the character scans. I mean, look at that CGI scan of Yang. You see it and you just think...badass. And then you look at his polka-dot pants, likely stolen from a Dr. Seuss book. And then you just...shiver.

I don't know if it's true or not, but I read somewhere that he was promoted as a Holy Knight in the Hokuten. I didn't find that info anywhere in the game, except, of course, that he's a Holy Knight right after Chapter One. I know he got his initial connections to Ivalice's hierarchy via Vormav and his Shrine Knights, as both Delita and Vormav know a lot of the "behind-the-scenes" aspects of the Lion War.

As per his promotion as the Black Sheep Knights' Leader, I think it was becuase one, you're theory of that holds water, but mainly, it was Goltana's thanks for delivering Ovelia to him safe and sound. I just guessed that they were reformed somehow. Here, Delita is doing the work of BOTH Goltana and the Shrine Knights, as both parties want Ovelia under Goltana's eye.

As for Orlandu's imprisonment, the opening scene in Chapter 3 is the only thing that I thought explained it; his protests for a peace treaty. Delita's staging of "Orlandu's attempted murder of Goltana" coupled with his "execution of Orlandu" brought Goltana to allow Delita to succeed T.G. Cid.

I always thought that he was only with the Hokuten during Chapter One, and was an official Nanten Knight during his capture of Ovelia, whereas the "Nanten" were Hokuten-in-disguise. He allied with Goltana to go along with Vormav's plans, but he betrays the them by allowing Ramza to combat them and free the real Orlandu while an imposter Orlandu tarnishes his image by attempting to assassinate Goltana and gets killed for it by Delita in a willing sacrifice. He betrays the church when he reveals to Balmafula that he's not going to lift a finger to prevent their biggest threat, Ramza and his party from stopping them.

Sorry for the long post, but I hope this helps clear up. Also, if any of my facts are way off, bring them to my attention 'cuz it has been too long of a while since I played the game last.

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"Thought I was dead, eh? Not until I fulfill my dream!"
Seifer Almasy


"The most important part of the story is the ending."
Secret Window


"Peace is but a shadow of death."
Kuja

Thanks, guys. I think I'm going to have to assume there was more than one Black Sheep knight left, or the game wouldn't have made a big deal of him becoming leader. This is what I choose to believe, damn it.

Thanks again.

--------------------

Some ghost of me might greet my son
the day he is delivered.


Eternal Sleep, Track 1-1: The Blue Planet

Quote

No, IIRC he was with Larg for a brief period, though I believe he was also under Goltana at the same time.

I'm pretty sure he was just playing both sides to further his plans- I don't think he ever switched sides, or acted as a spy. He was, in the end, only working for himself.

ok well no where in the game does it ever say he went back to the hokuten, he was involved with goltana in the nanten/black sheep but it was all the will of the church, who made him a holy knight. and delita does all this with his own plans in mind, he knows ramza will attempt to finish off the shrine knights, and once ramza kills his brothers the hokuten's leadership falters, then when the shrine knights kill funeral the only one really left with any power is delita.

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"Change the world? no one can do that, Im not that naive!"