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So while I was talking to Neo-Exdeath I was looking at what Blue Magics I was missing in my most recent playthrough, since I'm missing like 6 or 7 of them, and I came across BlakShock, which I already have but never really used before (kinda like Demi...seriously, who ever uses that spell?). I was also looking at the Chemist Mix list, since I just mastered the class and never really looked into all of the mixes too much. So I found this one mix called "Samson power" I think; it's a holy water mixed with an antidote. It rasies your level by 10. That's useful, right? I mean, who doesn't want to increase their level in battle? Hahahahahaha....but seriously, I thought of a strategy while I was thinking.

So BlakShock halves a level, rounded down. And Samson Power adds 10. And level 5 death kills anything whose level is a multiple of 5. See where I'm going with this? Let's take an enemy like, oh, let's just say Shinryuu. He is at level 97 when you fight him. That's not a multiple of 5, so let's force it into one. If you keep halving something, rounding down each time, you will get to level 1. So he goes from level 97 to level 48, to 24, to 12, to 6, to 3, to 1. Now what? Well, use Samson Power on him to make his level 11, which is still not a multiple of 5. But, if you use BlakShock again, you will make it 5. Now you can kill him in one hit. Pretty simple.

I tested this on a few enemies and it does work as it seems it would in theory. I normally wouldn't know whether or not Lvl5 Death bypasses instant death protection or not, but thanks to a newly acquired FFV bestiary data dump and a little trick I knew, I realized that it does. Archeoavis, in his final, undead form, can be killed with this spell and he is, as you can see from his data at the bottom of that page, immune to Fatal (the scythe icon). So um...I can't see any problem with this at all, unless Lvl5 Death can be reflected.

You can easily play through the entire game anyways with four Chemist/Blue Mage characters (giant drink + white wind FTW!), and IMO you shoudl always have one in your party anyways, so this might just be something to make the really tough battles a little easier, like Shinryuu. Don't try on Omega, though, because I think Lvl5 Death is reflectable. I actually think Gogo may be possible to actually kill with this strat, because I don't think he counters against actions that don't harm him. I might test it later. Anyways, enjoy!

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Is PJ

Nice work, C-Meister. Looks like FFV has its Vanish/Doom after all.

The only downside is the amount of times you have to use it to make an enemy killable. At least they get weaker and weaker (many formulas are based on level - I can get you a listing once I get my intar-web0rnet set up, whenever that'll be. Along with other info I owe someone else. Plenty of work. )

I'm curious what'd happen to Gogo. I suspect any end will count as Gogo being defeated and grant the player the crystal chip, butthat's not the case with FF6's Doom Gaze so... who knows. Do we have a script dump of FF5?

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

However, the chance of Dark Shock actually striking a target depends on the level of both the caster and the target. Say you're trying to employ this strategy versus Shinryuu, who's level 97. You're level 37 or something, kinda standard for end-game purposes from what I recall.

Short answer: you've got a 0.25 % chance of hitting Shinryuu.

Long answer:

Spell Hit% + Attacker Level - Target Level = Hit%
66 + 37 - 97 = 6 %

Shinryuu's Magic Evade is 95 %

94/100 chance it doesn't attempt to hit in the first place
95/100 chance it misses.

By the way, messing with the opponent's level and subsequently striking with L.5 Death is THE way to defeat pretty much half of the end-game bosses (combining with an almost contstant attention to defense, with elemental properties applied and !Image and whatnot). The chances are just really kinda small.


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The Collapse of Heaven and Earth

Hm. I did notice it was a missing a few timse when I was trying it, but I did get it to hit 4-5 times in a row. I guess .25% chance isn't really that great. I guess if you really had your heart set on using this, though, you could drink a bunch of giant potions so you can endure the beating while you manipulate the level (since you're blue wizards, white wind can keep you healed). I suppose you could use a bunch of Samson drinks on yourself to bolster your chance of hitting, too, since it IS just holy water and antidote. That's very time-consuming, but I guess if the chances are so bad that you need to use these strategies, it is probably an enemy worth spending the time on.

Since I'm not done with the game yet, I'll keep this in mind and see what I can do as I encounter tough battles that might necessitate the use of this. Maybe I can fnid a way around magic evade and such, but if not, at least it was time well-spent.

Thanks for the info, Djibriel!

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Is PJ

I will agree with Caesar that Bmages and chemists can be temaed up for the ultimate party

the ability to increase your own level would increase you chance

Quote

I actually think Gogo may be possible to actually kill with this strat, because I don't think he counters against actions that don't harm him. I might test it later. Anyways, enjoy!

theoretically from what I know about Gogo this could work, however It'll probably be a while before I'm no longer burned on FFV.
If I wasn't I would go ahead and test it.

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"Have you ever seen a baby do that before?"

Yep, you told me about that on aim. Pretty neat discovery you found. Now I won't have to try to steal plenty of Dragoon Lances from Crystal Dragon in order to kill Shinryu anymore thanks to your tips. I find myself actually liking Blue Mages alot right now (Big Guard was really good). Indeed, it was a nice discovery

This is actually an idea I've had in mind for a good long while, but never bothered to test. It first surfaced while I was playing FFVI, when I realized that since Lv5 Doom bypassed instant-KO protection (IIRC, it does), I figured that it might be possible to Dischord a lot of enemies into divisible-by-5 levels and then Lv5 Doom them. Now, maybe it won't work with FFVI, since I also remember hearing (recently) that Dischord can't hit an enemy with instant-KO protection (and doesn't bypass it).

However, given a level-reducing spell that bypasses instant-KO protection and a level-increasing scheme, or for that matter, simply a level-increasing scheme where the level increase quantum (the number of levels the move adds) is relatively prime to the divisor (the "whatever") of the Lv whatever Doom spell, this scheme easily becomes a possibility.

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Check the "What games are you playing at the moment?" thread for updates on what I've been playing.

You can find me on the Fediverse! I use Mastodon, where I am @[email protected] ( https://sakurajima.moe/@glennmagusharvey )

This method has been used to defeat Shinryuu before
I just remembered this morning, a while back I had seen a video on youtube.
the guy used four bares with the abilities drink/mix, blue, jump
first leveling up one character and juicing up HP with giant's drinks(and i believe they had speed shoes equipped)
after shinryuu had killed off the three support characters, the guy sed Butz(suped up) to levelup/down shinryuu and then cap it off with level 5 death.

Quote

By the way, messing with the opponent's level and subsequently striking with L.5 Death is THE way to defeat pretty much half of the end-game bosses (combining with an almost contstant attention to defense, with elemental properties applied and !Image and whatnot). The chances are just really kinda small.

good thing is the majority of the end game bosses acan be easily defeated by four ninjas throwing from the back row.

I really do want to attempt this against Omega and Gogo.
There's a little something inside of me that's always wanted to kill Gogo

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"Have you ever seen a baby do that before?"

Okay, as for darkshock and lv 5 death:

01 - X
02 - 1 -X
03 - 1 -X
04 - 2 -X
05 - O
06 - 3 -X
07 - 3 -X
08 - 4 -X
09 - 4 -X
10 - O
11 - 5 -O
12 - 6 -X
13 - 6 -X
14 - 7 -X
15 - O
16 - 8 -X
17 - 8 -X
18 - 9 -X
19 - 9 -X
20 - O
21 - 10 -O
22 - 11 - 5 -O
23 - 11 - 5 -O
24 - 12 -X
25 - O
26 - 13 -X
27 - 13 -X
28 - 14 -X
29 - 14 -X
30 - O
31 - 15 -O
32 - 16 -X
33 - 16 -X
34 - 17 -X
35 - O
36 - 18 -X
37 - 18 -X
38 - 19 -X
39 - 19 -X
40 - O
41 - 20 -O
42 - 21 - 10 -O
43 - 21 - 10 -O
44 - 22 - 11 - 5 -O
45 - O
46 - 23 - 11 - 5 - O
47 - 23 - 11 - 5 -O
48 - 24 -X
49 - 24 -X
50 - O
51 - 25 - O
52 - 26 -X
53 - 26 -X
54 - 27 -X
55 - O
56 - 28 -X
57 - 28 -X
58 - 29 -X
59 - 29 -X
60 - O
61 - 30 -O
62 - 31 - 15 -O
63 - 31 - 15 - O
64 - 32 -X
65 - O
66 - 33 -X
67 - 33 -X
68 - 34 -X
69 - 34 -X
70 - O
71 - 35 -O
72 - 36 -X
73 - 36 -X
74 - 37 -X
75 - O
76 - 38 -X
77 - 38 -X
78 - 39 -X
79 - 39 -X
80 - O
81 - 40 - O
82 - 41 - 20 -O
83 - 41 - 20 -O
84 - 42 - 21 - 10 -O
85 - O
86 - 43 - 21 - 10 -O
87 - 43 - 21 - 10 -O
88 - 44 - 22 - 11 - 5 -O
89 - 44 - 22 - 11 - 5 -O
90 - O
91 - 45 -O
92 - 46 - 23 - 11 - 5 -O
93 - 46 - 23 - 11 - 5 -O
94 - 47 - 23 - 11 - 5 -O
95 - O
96 - 48 -X
97 - 48 -X
98 - 49 -X
99 - 49 -X

Key (for those who are hard of reading):
X means Lv 5 death will NOT work.
O means Lv 5 death will work.
Each number greater than 1 has what it's "half" would be (the round down), and if it is possible to drag the level to an increment of 5, the whole pattern is drawn out. If there are errors, please correct me, but I think this is correct.

I actually printed out this sheet to reference from now on when playing. Copy and paste, yo!

Oh, by the way: Gogo (according to CoN) is Lv 77. Sampson drinks increase levels by 10, and every level between 80 and 95 is lv 5 deathable at some point. You do the math (literally), that is, if he will not counter that (or if he's immune to darkshock), which he probably will, but who cares? Find a way to make it work, and gogo is killable.

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If internal struggles were as enjoyable and glamorous as the self conflicted wars within video game characters, we would all be statues, reveling in perpetual self war. -Me

Play me on Rock Band 2, GH-WT, or any other Xbox GH!
Xbox Gamertag-MeanJerry

Gogo's killable anyway, you just have to do a crapload of damage before he annihilates you with counters.
Best to power yourself up with drinks and whatnot before opening fire.

and nice super bump

Gogo is guaranteed to hit you for 9999 and restore 9999, you cure he cures.

maybe in FFV GBA because they made it to where you can use x-fight and magic sword (bozo-no-no in my book)

in GBA you could have 1 character with chicken knife/excalibur 2 swords rapid fire. with a bunch of classes mastered. will be guaranteed to do more than 9999 overall. then after he dies use a phoenix down. (no reason to cure). and another character with 2 other good magic swords could probably get 12,000. so two characters using phoenix downs and two dealing damage.

Gogo has 47714HP

that can work only in GBA, unless he attacks when you use items(then all your characters will die). or heals for 9999, would you be able to make it out in time if he healed every time you used a phoenix down?
in GBA you could also try level 80+characters. i'm curious as to how much damage they'd do with 8 strikes of Sword flare

now in the real FFV, where this strategy would never succeed.you probably wouldn't be able to deal enough damage in time.

anyone remember what gogo's reaction is for when you use items?

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"Have you ever seen a baby do that before?"

Gogo's AI script, as dumped by RL and I:

Code

If Var_01 = 0x02      
{        
 - Execute Next 0x03 Bytes  
[Meteo]
[Meteo]
[Meteo]
       - Execute Next 0x03 Bytes  
[Maelstrom]
[Snowstorm]
[Aqua Rake]
 - Execute Next 0x04 Bytes  
[Blaze]
[Snowstorm]
[Aqua Rake]
}        
If Var_00 = 0x02      
{        
- Display Text(0x05C0-0x05C8)    
- Target Self    
[X-Zone]
}        
If Var_00 = 0x01      
{        
 [Idle for 24 rounds]
 - Set Var_00 to 0x02    
 [Idle]
}        
General AI:      
{        
 - Display Text(0x042E-0x0437)
 - Set Var_00 to 0x01    
 [Idle]
}        

Counters:    
If HP < 0x80E8 (33,000)
AND    
If Gogo takes damage
{        
 - Display Text(0x04BC-0x04BE)
 - Change Music to 0x01    
 - Display Text(0x04BF)
 - Set Var_01 to 0x02    
[Meteo]
}        
If Gogo is hit with Magic      
{        
 - Set Var_01 to 0x01    
 Randomly choose between [Holy, Flare, and Meteo]
}        
If Gogo is hit physically      
{        
 - Set Var_01 to 0x01    
 Randomly choose between [Fight, Special, and Critical]
}        
If Gogo sustains any damage      
{        
 - Set Var_01 to 0x01    
 [Remedy]
}

So what does all this mean? It means that once you enter battle, Gogo begins speaking and sets Var_00 to 0x01, so that for the next 24 turns, he will idle and then set Var_00 to 0x02. This having been done, he will display his ending text (blah blah, that's how to Mimic, lolz), target himself, and Degeon away.

That is all assuming you just sit there. If you deal any damage to him or attempt a physical or magical attack on him, he will set Var_01 to 0x01 and do some different things. Apparently if you deal damage to him in a non-magical and non-physical way, he will change the battle music to something else, say something, and Meteo you. If you use Magic, he will either use Holy, Flare, or Meteo. If you physically attack, he will either Fight, use his Special, or just straight deal 9999 damage to you. And lastly, after doing so, he will use "Remedy" on himself, but you won't know it. This recovers all of his health. And from now on, since Var_01 = 0x01, he will use terrible spells on you, beginning with three Meteos, and then using Maelstrom, Aqua Rake, and Snowstorm on you the next turn, and then using Blaze, Aqua Rake, and Snowstorm on you to complete the cycle. If somehow you aren't dead, he will repeat with Meteo.

That is his entire AI script, dumped directly from the ROM and translated into English. Don't try to correct it because it is almighty. Now, to address questions everybody, including myself, has been wondering. He won't cure if you cure. He will instantly recover all HP immediately after you damage him. If you cure, it seems that he will use his Magic counter, since you used the magic command. I haven't tried and I don't want to. Darkshock will induce this counter, so that won't work as I initially suggested. If you try to damage him and then resurrect the sacrificial lamb, you will find yourself dead. He will retailiate with the physical attack counter and then proceed with his "Var_01 = 0x01" script with the triple Meteo. Won't work.

Not sure what happens if you insta-kill him via amazingly-powerful !X-Fight (6000+ per each of the 8 attacks), but I know if you don't instakill him you lose. It may even counter for every time you hit him. That is, if you hit him 8 times, he hits you 8 times. I never really use !X-Fight so I don't know. But it's either one-hit KO or game over.

Anyways, this is really off-topic, but it's a good discussion to have, so I don't have a problem with it just yet.

Edit

Seems I misread my own dump. The triple Meteo counter is if Var_01 = 0x02, not 0x01. This only happens if you damage him while he has under 33,000 HP. This DOES mean, however, if you hit him with !X-Fight, you will surely induce the triple Meteo (quadruple, actualy, since there is one included in the initial counter). Otherwise, you will just die and deal no lasting damage to him.

This post has been edited by Caesar on 25th February 2007 04:51

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Is PJ

Hmm i didn't know it was a full-cure. So either 8-hit KO or Lvl 5 death.

I say screw the 8 sword flares that's GBA only.
we really need to get somebody to test this strategy out.
Personally I'm still burnt out.
Mass-leveling for solo Dragoon=Not fun.

This post has been edited by Cloud_Strife510 on 25th February 2007 09:15

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"Have you ever seen a baby do that before?"

There are more ways to make an enemy's level divisible by 5...:

- You can use the Mixes Dragon Power (Potion+Dragon Fang) & Samson's Power () until it reaches 255, then use Lv 5 Doom.

- You can use (Lv 2)/Old to decrease their level & then have some luck to use Lv 5 Doom when the lv is divisible by 5

- You can use Dark Shock or Release a monster that uses Sonic Wave & half their Lv. Then you can combine any of the strats mentioned above to be able to connect...

Quote (Cloud_Strife510 @ 25th February 2007 03:13)

we really need to get somebody to test this strategy out.

I don't know if I'm really up for starting yet another game. I guess it wouldn't really take much tho if I used the unlock all jobs code right off the bat, but I'd almost be willing to try it.

If I do, it may take me a couple of days... I'm renting Red Steel for my Wii right now, and unless I can get a copy to own for cheap, I want to get the most out of that right now.

Edit

I got a used copy for $25. So game on!

Other than that, I think all my other games could be put on hold for the moment in the name of discovery.

Although, if within the next couple of weeks, Super Metroid comes out for the Wii virtual console, EVERYTHING is on hold, period.

This post has been edited by leilong on 27th February 2007 04:30

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If internal struggles were as enjoyable and glamorous as the self conflicted wars within video game characters, we would all be statues, reveling in perpetual self war. -Me

Play me on Rock Band 2, GH-WT, or any other Xbox GH!
Xbox Gamertag-MeanJerry

Since you have almost two minutes to buff up a character with drinks and spells, there's no real reason you couldnt do a 6000 damage XFight even in the old version.

Just hit 99 before hand, haste on everyone, best weapons, spellblade (if applicable), and tons and tons of level increasing drinks on one character.

Boom, dead gogo.

Edit

Same stratagy for the magic pots in the pheonix tower. That one's a bit easier since you dont have to do it all in one turn; just all before he cure3's himself.

This post has been edited by Kaijyuu on 27th February 2007 21:51